From daemon Mon Nov 1 11:14:11 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA28844; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:14:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:14:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911011914.LAA28844@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Alastair Grant" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Nereis Re: Last doubts In the non-taxonomic literature that I use Nereis caudata is usually described as being equivalent to Nereis arenaceodentata. Assuming that they are the same, then this species forms pairs inside the tube, large eggs are laid then guarded by the male "for about 3 weeks, at which time they have about 18 to 21 setigerous segments" to quote the 20th edition of Standard methods for the examination of water and wastewater. Don Reish is the person to contact for full details. When you reach the publication stage, I'd be really interested in seeing a copy of your paper. Alastair _______________________________________________________________ Dr. Alastair Grant School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia, Norwich, NR4 7TJ Phone +44 1603 592537 Fax +44 1603 507 719 Email: A.Grant@uea.ac.uk WWW pages: http://www.uea.ac.uk/~e130/ag.htm -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 1 13:53:26 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA22106; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:53:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:53:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911012153.NAA22106@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Jerry D. Kudenov" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Last doubts - Amphinomidae Organization: University of Alaska Anchorage Dear Salva and list-ers: In terms of sexual reproduction, both Chloeia viridis and Pareurythoe chilensis are probably planktotrophic, based on observations. However, many species of Pareurythoe also reproduce asexually. I presently have thriving cultures of at least 2 different Pareurythoe species (Fiji, Thailand) that reproduce this way. And it is present on most all of the Pareurythoe species I have examined. Hope this helps. Jerry Kudenov ----- Original Message ----- > I have a final list of species no-one seems to know/guess/have come > accross/have explored into their reproducive strategy, whether > planktotrophic (PLK), lecitotrophic (LEC) or direct development (DD). > > Does anyone know how do the following 10 polychaete taxa reproduce? (I > attach my guess from refs from taxonomic relatives): > > 1/ (Amphinomidae) Chloeia viridis: DD, Kudenov 1977. > 2/ (Amphynomidae) Eurythoe chilensis: no reference found. -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 1 17:08:34 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA17876; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:08:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:08:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911020108.RAA17876@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: Re: Methyl green > I recall Linda Warren giving a talk at a polychaete meeting that Chris > Mettam organised in Cardiff (I think) in which she presented some data > on the utility of staining patterns in identification. I don't know if Linda or > anyone else can shed any light on this? As I'm not sure that Linda Warren is on the list I'll contribute this .... I believe for the end result see Fig. 2 in: Warren, L. M., P. A. Hutchings, & S. Doyle. 1994. A revision of the genus Mediomastus Hartman, 1944 (Polychaeta: Capitellidae).— Records of the Australian Museum, 46:227-256. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 1 18:21:00 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA27998; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 18:21:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 18:21:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911020221.SAA27998@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: Re: Echiura It might be interesting to compare what has happened concerning usage of the former phyla Vestimentifera and Pogonophora. At the moment, as far as I am aware from the published literature, no one amongst the many vent- worm researchers has yet demoted him/herself to becoming a student of family Siboglinidae (Annelida: Polychaeta) as would seem to be required by compelling evidence, particularly over several recent years since Rouse & Fauchald 1995. I wonder why not? As one 1998 paper cogently puts it, "there is a large amount of congruence among several disparate sources of data" that pogonophora are annelids. In contrast this does not seem to be the situation yet with respect to echiurans. However, this is just an observation, not a critical comment on vestimentiferan workers, who mostly do not need to be involved with taxonomic hierarchy issues. Expressing awareness but caution, or a delicate fudging / fence-sitting in these matters is probably sensible practice ... as exemplified in a recent paper by these workers on an echiuran: McKenzie, J. D., & D. J. Hughes. 1999. Integument of Maxmuelleria lankesteri (Echiura), with notes on bacterial symbionts and possible evidence of viral activity.— Invertebrate Biology, 118(3):296-309. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 2 01:59:58 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA24800; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:59:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:59:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911020959.BAA24800@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Derek Moore Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Methyl Green As a contribution to the discussion annelidans might like to read WINSNES I M (1985) The use of methyl green as an aid in species descrimination in Onuphidae (Annelida:Polychaeta) Zool. Scripta 14(1) 19-23 which I found quite useful and informative. Derek C Moore *************************************************************** Derek C Moore Environmental Protection Section Marine Laboratory Aberdeen Tel : +44 (0) 1224 295441 PO Box 101, Victoria Road Fax: +44 (0) 1224 295524 Aberdeen, AB11 9DB E-mail : mooredc@marlab.ac.uk Scotland URL: http://www.marlab.ac.uk/ The Marine Laboratory is a division of Fisheries Research Services An Agency of the Scottish Executive *********************************************************************** -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 2 12:34:38 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA29140; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:34:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:34:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911022034.MAA29140@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Alexandra Hillebrand Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Leech tegumentary cells culture Hello! I'm quite new on the annelida-list and I have a problem: I would like to obtain a culture of cells isolated from the tegument of a leech (Haemopis). Does anybody have any hints about how am I supposed to do this? Thank you! Alexandra Hillebrand =================================================== ALEXANDRA HILLEBRAND Institute of Biochemistry Postal address: P.O. Box 2-2 Spl.Independentei, 296; sect.6 78 200 Bucharest, Romania 777 000 Bucharest 17, Romania Tel: 40-1-2.23.90.69; Fax: 40-1-2.23.90.68. Email: alexhill@biochim.ro / ahillebrand@hotmail.com -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 2 16:32:39 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA02909; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:32:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:32:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911030032.QAA02909@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Kenneth M. Halanych" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Echiura I have been following the Echiura debate with some interest and I just wanted to add some comments. I think that a comparison of the Echiura to the pogonophorans makes Kristian's point all the more relevant. Taxonomic ranks are purely man made and have no meaning in nature. Meredith Jones (and Ivanov to some degree) was the one who was pushing for the "phylum" status of both perviate pogonophorans and vestimentiferans based on (what I consider) minor body plan differences. Several genes (I am drawing both on published and unpublished data) show very little diversity with the vestimentifera and limited diversity in the perviates. A rankless taxonomic scheme based on monophyletic groups would avoid these problems - diversity and differences of opinion on importance of certain features...as well as the abundance of names for the same monophyletic clade as is the case with pogonophorans. In the 1998 paper quoted by Geoff Read (Cah. Biol. Mar. 39:355-358 ), we did agree with McHugh's use of the term Siboglinidae (p357). Ken Halanych Biology Dept. MS 33 Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Woods Hole, MA 02543 -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Wed Nov 3 13:01:50 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA08120; Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:01:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:01:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911032101.NAA08120@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Francesco Paolo Patti Subject: Owenia wanted Dear list-ers, I have started a big project based on the comparison of different populations of Owenia fusiformis. To do that I'll use a molecular marker and so I need a lot of material. If somebody can collect and send me O. fusiformis from whatever part of the world I'll be so happy....I need animals in absolute alcohol to preserve DNA. There is somebody that can help me? Regards Francesco Paolo Dr. Francesco Paolo Patti PhD Harvard Univ Dept of Deb 367 BioLabs (Palumbi LAB) 16 Divinity Ave Cambridge, MA 02138-2020 USA -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Thu Nov 4 02:31:57 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id CAA16882; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 02:31:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 02:31:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911041031.CAA16882@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Echiura > Taxonomic ranks are purely man made and have no meaning in nature. Sure they're constructs, but the higher levels still have meaning and utility for many, despite the new world of cladistic-everything. A lot of what we do, in biology and outside, is by agreed convention of the peer group. The constructs of our minds are given artificial but defined limits, because it makes communication of ideas possible and simple, and divides the natural world into the nice mentally-digestible chunks we love. Species, Genera, Families (regulated by code), and indeed Phyla (usage by consensus) are convenient as shorthand for everyday practical needs. I personally couldn't give a $#!@* for the rest of the possible Linnaean ranks. 'Class' as a term is a bit of a problem area at the moment, and might be dropping out ot favour the most, but it's around that level of aggregation that taxonomists set the limits of their interest - in the annelids at least. I don't think a rankless scheme will mean fewer names, fewer name problems. Rather the reverse. Back to the subject. Would it be fair If I said that the consensus at present of those phylogeneticists interested in the problem is that echiurans are poised somewhere very close to the annelids, hovering on the fringe, but that there is insufficient range of evidence to place them beyond doubt somewhere within the group? -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Sat Nov 6 10:38:40 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA13356; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:38:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:38:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911061838.KAA13356@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Aaron Baldwin Subject: Freshwater polychaetes from Alaska Dear group, I am in the process of sorting infauna samples from alpine bog ponds in Sitka, Alaska, as part of a class project. In nearly every sample we have 1-3 rather large (20-30 mm) polychaetes. They were collected from several ponds at approximately 1000 m elevation. I haven't yet looked close to determine family (for this project "Polychaeta" is close enough). I plan to take a much more detailed look after the weekend. I am fairly sure it's not a nereid. I was wondering if there were good sources of information on Alaskan FW annelids, or anyone who would be interested in specimens. I have permission to save the specimens from the ash weight section of the project. Thanks in advance - Aaron Aaron Baldwin -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Sat Nov 6 14:18:03 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA07475; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:18:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:18:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911062218.OAA07475@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: The Diplocardia mississippiensis story Hi Annelida, Have you had enough of dry legalese from the Code? Are you sick of arguments about Capitellidae by the numbers? Do your DNA extractions still refuse to work? Or are you tired and disheartened as wounded Phyla sink beneath waves of righteous cladograms? Boy, then have I got a different story for you! A well-written tale about worms and their exploitation in the Florida Panhandle: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99mar/worms.htm The Atlantic Monthly; March 1999; Can of Worms; by Kenneth Brower. Volume 283, No.3; pages 91 - 100. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Sun Nov 7 20:17:40 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA20200; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911080417.UAA20200@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Sam James Subject: Re: The Diplocardia mississippiensis story This is why earthworm specialists have more fun! Not only that, there are damn few of us to spread it over. I was consulted for this story, and though my contribution was small, I greatly enjoyed my discussions with the author. > ... Boy, then have I got a different story for you! > >A well-written tale about worms and their exploitation in the Florida >Panhandle: > >http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99mar/worms.htm >The Atlantic Monthly; March 1999; Can of Worms; by Kenneth Brower. >Volume 283, No.3; pages 91 - 100. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Sam James ~ ~ Dept. of Biology ~ ~ Maharishi Univ. of Mgmt. ~ ~ 1000 N. 4th St. FM 1056 ~ ~ Fairfield, IA 52557 ~ ~ sjames@mum.edu ~ ~ 515-472-1146 ~ ~ Systematics and Ecology ~ ~ of Earthworms ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 8 16:41:02 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA14079; Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:41:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:41:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911090041.QAA14079@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Aaron Baldwin Subject: More on the FW Alaskan Polychaete Dear group, I spent a few hours today examining the FW polychaetes I had mentioned in an earlier post. By request I will post a more detailed description. While I am reasonably familiar with polychaete morphology, there is a possibility that I have erred in the identification of certain parts, so please forgive if any "impossible" combinations of traits appear! The prostomium is pointed in some individuals, rounded in others. I can find no evidence of prostomial appendages except in one specimen there appear to be scars or remants of what could be palps as is seen in Spionids. The prostomium has four black eyes, with the first pair being slightly larger and further apart than the second pair. Branchiae are simple, flattened, filliform (?) and are about 4 times as long as wide. The first setiger that I can see undisputable branchiae on is setiger three. The branchiae are dorsal to the parapodia and appear, in some places, to be partially fused with the notopodium. The posterior end of most of my specimens is either missing or damaged, so I do not know how far back the branchiae extend. On one specimen with a complete posterior region I can find no branchiae on these setigers. However, the posterior setigers have many fine cirri (maybe branchiae?), about 4-7 on each side of each setiger. The parapodia are biramous. The setae (I couldn't determine neuro- from notosetae, I believe I was looking at notosetae) are simple limbate capillaries. Bidentate (?) hooded hooks appear from setiger 20 on back (one specimen has hooks on setiger 18, and another may have been as far back as setiger 22). Thanks again for any input, -Aaron Aaron Baldwin -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 9 12:52:18 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA24685; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911092052.MAA24685@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Eibye-Jacobsen, Danny (MSX)" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: RE: More on the FW Alaskan Polychaete I'm guessing that Aaron has Marenzelleria cf. viridis sensu Bick & Zettler 1997 (probably = M. wireni sensu Holmquist 1967, who reported the species from Alaska, in Hotham Inlet, Kotzbue Sound, at a salinity of under 1 pro mille). Danny Danny Eibye-Jacobsen Associate Professor, Curator Zoological Museum, Copenhagen dejacobsen@zmuc.ku.dk -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 9 13:04:17 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA26706; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:04:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:04:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911092104.NAA26706@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Hessling, Rene" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Echiura Dear all, I have been following the discussion about the phylogenetic position of the Echiura and Pogonophora as well as the taxonomic consequences for the nomenclature of these groups with great interest. I am delighted by the general interest taken in this topic and by the recent contribution of T. Nishikawa, J. I. Saiz-Salinas and E. Cutler, that more work needs to be done on echiurids in particular, since this is precisely the topic of my current Ph.D. thesis. My main emphasis is on the larval development of the nervous system in different Echiura in comparison to polychaete nervous systems in search for shared or dissimilar morphological characters. First results of immunohistochemical studies on different echiurid larvae are due to be published soon and give added support for a close affinity between echiurids and polychaetes. Furthermore I am in the process of sequencing different mitochondrial and nuclear genes in order to broaden the database of molecular characters. As was suggested by T. Nishikawa, J. I. Saiz-Salinas and E. Cutler my current sequence analysis include species from Bonellidae, Echiuridae and Urechidae (using the family-level nomenclature of Stephen & Edmonds for these echiurid subtaxa). I would be happy to give more detailed information about my current studies and to discuss my results with anyone interested in the phylogenetic reevaluation of the Echiura. With kind regards, René Hessling ______________________________ Dipl. Biol. Rene Hessling Universtiät Osnabrueck Spezielle Zoologie Barbarastr. 11 D-49069 Osnabrueck Germany Tel. ++49-541-969-2859 Fax. ++49-541-969-2587 -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 9 13:22:18 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA29511; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911092122.NAA29511@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Alexandra Hillebrand Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Culture from tegumentary cells from leeches +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes, more or less a duplicate message of one not long ago. If anyone can suggest a place, person, or list where Alexandra can ask to get this sort of information (apparently not within the expertise of Annelida) please reply directly to her. -- GBR (Moderator) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hello to everybody! I'm a new member of annelida list. I would like to obtain a cell culture from tegument from a leech and I don't know exactly what am I suppose to do in order to get this (I mean I don't know exactly what kind of medium I have to use and what are the optimal conditions for these kind of cells to grow). I would highly appreciate if there is anybody who can give me some hints in these direction. Thank you all, Alexandra ============================================================================= ALEXANDRA HILLEBRAND Institute of Biochemistry Postal address: P.O. Box 2-2 Spl.Independentei, 296; sect.6 78 200 Bucharest, Romania 777 000 Bucharest 17, Romania Tel: 40-1-2.23.90.69; Fax: 40-1-2.23.90.68. Email: alexhill@biochim.ro / ahillebrand@hotmail.com -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 12 10:53:48 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA01968; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:53:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:53:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911121853.KAA01968@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Cutlereb@aol.com Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Echiura History + Greetings, It might be of interest to provide just a wee bit of historical background on when/why this group of worms was upgraded to a phylum - ******* Quote from Stephen & Edmonds, 1972:343. The Echiuroidea was established as a phylum largely as a result of the studies of Newby (1940) on the embryology and development of Urechis caupo. He showed that annelids and echiurans differ considerably in their mode of development, that the mesodermal bands of developing echiurans show no trace of segmentation and that echiurans are no more related to annelids than they are to molluscs. He advocated that the group be considered as forming a separate phylum. The phyletic status of the group is now generally accepted. ************ Now different data from the same species is used to 'downgrade' it.... It was very good news to learn of Mr. Hessling's work and we look forward to seeing the results. I do have no problem accepting the concept of our arbitrary and perhaps artificial ways of grouping and ranking objects - natural or man-made. It seems to me to be a necessary 'evil' as Geoff suggests. Where (and how) does the line between natural and unnatural groups get drawn? (Not a new or original question) It's also my perception that science operates by building a convincing case, based on testable hypothesis - not by declarations from 'on high'. Maybe the earlier 'upgrade' based on one aspect of their development was not well founded - but - maybe not. Perhaps a session at the Iceland meetings where this could be discussed face-to-face would be healthy, stimulating & maybe even fun?? Regards, Ed -------------------------------------- Edward B. Cutler, PhD Department of Invertebrate Zoology Museum of Comparative Zoology Harvard University Cambridge, MA 02138 USA Telephone: 617-738-0107 e-mail: CutlerEB@aol.com URL: http://www.mcz.harvard.edu/Departments/InvertZoo/as.fldr/cutler/cutler.htm -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 12 10:58:03 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA02255; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911121858.KAA02255@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Gyorffy Gyorgy Subject: Eunice feeding Dear Colleagues, Please inform me about the feeding type of Eunice viridis. We have not found any detailed information in the literature, but we have to teach it. Thank you for your kindly help, Gy. Gyorffy -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 12 11:08:44 1999 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA03596; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:08:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:08:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911121908.LAA03596@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: BIOSCI Administrator Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: BIOSCI/bionet miniFAQ & Fundraiser ============================================== ANNELIDA members: The monthly content below is an automatic message. It is sent to help you with your subscription to Bionet lists. Do read it occasionally and KEEP at least ONE for future reference please. INSTRUCTIONS only for ANNELIDA ANNELIDA is a moderated list, mainly to stop spam (junk mail). Mail all subscribe / unsubscribe / help commands in the body of a mail message addressed to biosci-server@net.bio.net. (Do NOT send commands to the ANNELIDA address.) Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. Do not send your signature (name, etc) message at the end. In the body of your message put one (or more) of the following commands with an (optional) "end" command on the last line, e.g., help subscribe annelida unsubscribe annelida end PLEASE unsubscribe BEFORE you change addresses, then resubscribe. Otherwise you will need to contact to get the old address off the list. The Biosci- help address goes to a support person at bionet. They may take some days to reply. Thank you, GBR. ANNELIDA moderator ============================================== (LAST REVISION: 14-AUG-99) This BIOSCI "miniFAQ" is designed to answer the questions that come up the *most frequently*. The main BIOSCI FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) is accessible on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.bio.net/. If you can not find an answer to your question in this or other documentation, the BIOSCI technical support staff answers e-mail queries sent to biosci-help@net.bio.net We can only answer questions about the use of the newsgroups and mailing lists. We unfortunately do not have the staff to do Internet information searches or answer scientific questions. Please post those to the appropriate BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. Contents: -------- 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! ------------------------------ BIOSCI's government funding has been expended, and we are now operating solely from advertising revenue that we have raised from our Web site at http://www.bio.net/. We need just a few minutes of your time to help us serve you. You can do two important things which will take very little time for you individually and will immensely help us continue to help you. First, please use our WWW system at http://www.bio.net/ to access the archives. You can post or reply to messages via your Web browser as described in item #1 below. Your usage helps attract sponsors. If you contact any of our sponsors, please be sure to thank them for supporting BIOSCI. It is critical for them to get this feedback if they are to continue their sponsorship for the long term. Second, if you work for a company or organization that provides products or services of interest to the biology community, please pass this message on to your marketing or marketing communications department or other appropriate group. Please ask them to help support BIOSCI by sponsoring our Web site and explain the uses and benefits of the system to the biology community. If they are interested, they can then contact us for further information at our tech support address, biosci-help@net.bio.net. 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. -------------------------------------------------------- All BIOSCI/bionet full newsgroups are accessible through the World Wide Web (WWW) at URL http://www.bio.net. One can read and reply publicly or privately to both recent postings and archived messages through one's Web browser if it is configured properly to send e-mail. Each newsgroup is equipped with its own WAIS index. The main BIOSCI home page also has access to the BIO-JOURNALS Table of Contents database WAIS index and the BIOSCI user address database described in another item further below. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. ------------------------------------------------------- BIOSCI is a set of parallel USENET newsgroups (the "bionet" groups), mailing lists, and a hypermail archive at URL http://www.bio.net/. The same postings are distributed on all media (except for a small number of mailing-list-only groups at net.bio.net). Unfortunately it is becoming a despicable practice on the Internet (by a few people out to make a fast buck) to do automated mass postings to thousands of newsgroups and mailing lists. These attempts to grab free advertising are refered to as "spams" in the usual, somewhat boneheaded, net terminology. USENET is more susceptible to this practice, and many spams originate on the USENET groups and then are passed on to the mailing lists. However, spammers also get lists of mailing addresses and hit these too, so neither medium is immune. What should you do personally if you get junk mail? --------------------------------------------------- Just delete it and move on without reading it further. Filing a protest is becoming increasingly useless because spammers are often disguising the addresses where the messages are sent from. Unless you really understand Internet mail systems, your attempt at protest by sending replies to the message will often end up being sent to the address of an innocent person that the spammer is victimizing. 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If a newsgroup is being hit with too many junk postings, please contact the discussion leader for that group and see if there is interest in moderating the group. Please do not assume that by simply posting a complaint to the newsgroup itself, anyone on the BIOSCI staff will act on your complaint. With close to 100 newsgroups to run, the BIOSCI staff has to rely on the discussion leaders of each newsgroup to report problems directly to us at biosci-help@net.bio.net. We will moderate any of our newsgroups if the discussion leader tells us that the readership of the group wishes to do so and if a moderator is willing to do the work. For most BIOSCI/bionet groups, this entails only a few minutes of work each day. Moderating a newsgroup will resolve probably 95% of the junk postings on the USENET distribution. Unfortunately there are easy ways for determined spammers to override the moderation mechanism on USENET, but we can protect our e-mail subscribers from unwanted postings if the newsgroup is moderated. You can also access our newsgroups over the WWW at URL http://www.bio.net. While this Web interface will not stop spammers from trying to post to the groups, this will give you yet another way, besides using USENET news, to keep the junk out of your personal mail files. For those of you with local USENET news systems, the Web interface will also give you faster access to new newsgroups and recent postings. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. ------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE: The BIOSCI management does NOT act on subscription/unsubscription requests that are posted improperly to the newsgroups and mailing lists. People who do this only bother everyone on the lists to no avail. Please be sure to follow the proper procedures below. Gory details are in the BIOSCI Information sheets on the Web at http://www.bio.net. Below we give an example utilizing the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS list at both of our two BIOSCI sites: Users in the Americas and Pacific Rim countries who use the BIOSCI ------------------------------------------------------------------ node at computer net.bio.net: ---------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@net.bio.net. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to biosci-server@net.bio.net. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! 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C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Please ask for help at biosci@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Please take this opportunity to add your name, address, and research interest information to the BIOSCI User Address Database if you have not already done so. You can fill out the address form directly through our Web page at URL http://www.bio.net/adrform.html. The address database is reindexed nightly for WWW access (the URL is http://www.bio.net/). If you are not directly on the Internet but can reach it by e-mail, please use our waismail server to access the user directory. waismail use is described above. You can also request a user address form by e-mail from biosci-help@net.bio.net. Please check your database entry from time-to-time to see if your address information is still up-to-date. Because of our limited personnel resources, we ask that you resubmit a *complete* form to revise your entry; we only replace complete entries and do not have resources to edit old forms. -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 15 13:22:36 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA26710; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911152122.NAA26710@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Alastair Grant" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Nereis caudata Have any of the members of this list seen Nereis caudata in UK (or other European) waters? I'm interested in getting hold of some live specimens for ecotoxicological work. And does anyone have a view of whether Nereis caudata and Nereis arenaceodentata are genuinely synonyms as is often claimed? Many thanks, Alastair ___________________________________________________________ Dr. Alastair Grant School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia, Norwich, NR4 7TJ Phone +44 1603 592537 Fax +44 1603 507 719 Email: A.Grant@uea.ac.uk WWW pages: http://www.uea.ac.uk/~e130/ag.htm -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 15 14:57:26 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA11715; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:57:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:57:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911152257.OAA11715@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Judith A. Fournier" <110275.1004@compuserve.com> Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Nereis caudata Somewhere here in my files I have a reference that shows that Nereis arenaceodentata Moore, 1903 from New England (type locality = Massachusetts) has a different chromosome number than N. arenaceodentata from California. This suggests that the Nereididae include a number of cryptospecies that need to be checked VERY carefully. If I can find my notes (it ain't snow - yet-- it's paper), I'll post the ref. Judy Fournier <110275.1004@compuserve.com> -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 15 15:19:50 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA14505; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:19:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:19:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911152319.PAA14505@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Sergio Salazar Vallejo" Subject: Nereis caudata and N. arenaceodentata Dear Alastair and colleagues, Nereis caudata includes N. acuminata. However, Nereis arenaceodentata Moore 1909 is a (very) different biological species. Please enjoy reading Weinberg et al. (1990 Marine Biology 107:205-213); you will notice that these two species have a very similar morphology but they are reproductively isolated and their chromosome number is 2n=22 for N. caudata while N. arenaceodentata is 2n=18. This geographic identification of similar animals is also present in Diadema echinoids from each side of Panama; being D. mexicana the Pacific form while it is D. antillarum the Western Atlantic one. We should keep apart the two names of polychaetes. Un abrazo, Sergio La Ciencia del Tercer Mundo no está perdida, sino ignorada. Third World Science is not lost (Sci. Amer. Aug. 1995:76), just ignored. Sergio I. Salazar-Vallejo Depto. Ecología Acuática ECOSUR, Apdo. Postal 424 Chetumal QR 77000 MEXICO salazar@ecosur-qroo.mx Tel. (983) 20115, 21666 Fax (983) 20447 http://www.ecosur.mx -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 15 18:29:36 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA13913; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:29:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:29:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911160229.SAA13913@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: Re: Nereis caudata > Somewhere here in my files I have a reference that shows that Nereis > arenaceodentata Moore, 1903 from New England (type locality = > Massachusetts) has a different chromosome number than N. > arenaceodentata from California. This suggests that the Nereididae > include a number of cryptospecies that need to be checked VERY > carefully. Actually some of this has come up before - and Judy had some comments then: See in the ANNELIDA archive for March 1996 http://www.bio.net/hypermail/ANNELIDA/9603/0013.html http://www.bio.net/hypermail/ANNELIDA/9603/0019.html some papers are: Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak, & D. J. Jorg. 1992. Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory.— Evolution, 46(4):1214-1220 Rodriguez-Trelles, F., J. R. Weinberg, & F. J. Ayala. 1996. Presumptive rapid speciation after a founder event in a laboratory population of Nereis - allozyme electrophoretic evidence does not support the hypothesis.— Evolution., 50(1):457-461. Pesch, G. G., & C. E. Pesch. 1980. Chromosome complement of the marine worm Neanthes arenaceodentata (Polychaeta: Annelida).— Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, 37(2):286- 288,illustr. Pesch, G. G., C. E. Pesch, & C. Mueller. 1988. Chromosome complements from two populations of the marine worm Neanthes arenaceodentata (Annelida: Polychaeta).— Ophelia, 28(2):163-167 and the paper mentioned by Sergio: Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak, C. Mueller, G. C. Pesh, & S. M. Lindsay. 1990. Divergence between populations of a monogamous polychaete with male parental care: Premating isolation and chromosome variation.— Marine Biology (Berlin), 107(2):205-214. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Thu Nov 18 12:57:35 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA00390; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:57:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:57:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911182057.MAA00390@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Francesco Paolo Patti Subject: Owenia fusiformis Dear list-ers, I would say thanks to all the people that help me to get fresh Owenia fusiformis specimens from different areas. Thanks a lot. However if there is somebody that have samples of this species preserved in alcohol, also oldest material....Can send me something? I'm looking mainly for O. fusiformis coming from Atlantic American coasts. Thanks to everybody that can help me, Francesco ############################################## Dr. Francesco Paolo Patti, Ph.D. Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology (Palumbi Lab) Harvard University 16 Divinity Ave Cambridge, MA 02138, USA 617/496-8667 phone 617/495-1958 fax E-mail: fpatti@pop.oeb.harvard.edu ############################################## -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 19 10:43:23 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA20471; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:43:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:43:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911191843.KAA20471@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Tom Perkins STP 813-896-8626 Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Nereis caudata and N. arenaceodentata According to J. H. Day (1973), New Polychaeta from Beaufort, with a Key to All Species Recorded from North Carolina, NOAA Technical Report NMFS CIRC-375: p. 41, Nereis (Neanthes) caudata (delle Chiaje, 1822), type locality Mediterranean, is a (junior) homonym. Day states that the next available name is Nereis (Neanthes) acuminata Ehlers, 1868, type locality Naples, and that Nereis arenaceodentata Moore, 1903, type locality Massachusetts, is a (junior) synonym. Many biologists would probably agree that the European and North American worms do not belong to the same species. That they are different has not, to my knowledge, been established. What has been established, as indicated in the research papers cited by Geoff Read, is that North American east coast and North American west coast taxa referred to N. arenaceodentata are not the same species. Nereis caudata was originally described in 1822 as Spio caudatus. This name was first used by Lamarck, 1818, for the species now known as Polydora cornuta Bosc, 1802, type locality Charleston, South Carolina. Hartman, 1959, in her Catalog, Part 2, P. 390, attributed the first use of S. caudatus to Savigny, but Savigny, 1822, did not use the name. Tom Perkins Florida Marine Research Institute 100 8th Ave SE St. Petersburg, FL 33701 USA tel: 727-896-8626 fax: 727-823-0166 email: Tom.Perkins@dep.state.fl.us -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 19 15:55:09 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA29001; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:55:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:55:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911192355.PAA29001@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: bill kirby-smith Subject: Re: Nereis caudata and N. arenaceodentata This message reminded me I hav 50 or so copies of the Day publication gathering dust. I will send one to anyone who sends me a self addressed envelope with $1.20 US postage on it for "Library Rate" (or $3.75 for first class). Out of the US send me an e-mail and I'll get back to you sometime with how much us$ I need to mail this. Bill Kirby-Smith At 10:43 AM 11/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >According to J. H. Day (1973), New Polychaeta from Beaufort, with a >Key to All Species Recorded from North Carolina, NOAA Technical >Report NMFS CIRC-375 William W. Kirby-Smith, Ph.D. Associate Professor of the Practice of Marine Ecology Duke Marine Laboratory Nicholas School of the Environment 135 Duke Lab Rd. Beaufort, NC 28516 Voice 252-504-7577 Fax 252-504-7648 email wwks@duke.edu -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Sun Nov 21 16:58:45 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA13026; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:58:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:58:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911220058.QAA13026@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: ANNELIDA: Responding to offers Folks, A further reminder about responding to offers of reprints and such like. DO NOT SEND REQUEST REPLIES TO THE LIST ADDRESS. Thank you so much. Having given this warning I will not be forwarding any more misdirected mail. Moderator ANNELIDA, -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Mon Nov 22 01:44:54 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA28283; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:44:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:44:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911220944.BAA28283@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Dr. M. Nechama Ben-Eliahu" Subject: Juvenile opercula in Hydroides (Serpulidae) Hello everybody, Over several years Harry ten Hove and I have been observing species of Hydroides that have 2 different 2-tiered opercula. One of these opercuka has 2 simple tiers, and the other has a much more developed operculum. For example, one a typical Hydroides minax operculum and the other a more simple one. -- Both of these opercula are present on a single individual. We described this in a discussion section in Ben-Eliahu & ten Hove, 1989, page 393. The simpler of these forms has been found in several different Indo- Pacific species together with the mature form. If you have come accross the phenomenon of more than one kind of 2- tiered opercula in a single specimen of Hydroides we would welcome your additions to this list. Thanks in anticipation of your kind attention. Sincerely, Nechama Ben-Eliahu and Harry A. ten Hove -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Tue Nov 23 22:34:38 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA19221; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:34:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:34:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911240634.WAA19221@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: Spio caudatus Tom Perkins provided some useful points regarding Nereis caudata names, and ended with: > Nereis caudata was originally described in 1822 as Spio caudatus. This > name was first used by Lamarck, 1818, for the species now known as > Polydora cornuta Bosc, 1802, type locality Charleston, South Carolina. And it was Polydora cornuta even then of course. Just to expand on that line linking P. cornuta and Spio caudatus in Hartman 1959, p390, and to check with list members if my grasp of the events is on the right track. (I'm only aware of a Commission ruling on the dates of Savigny, not anything else, and I haven't looked through papers of the time other than Lamarck, 1818 and Quatrefages, 1865). But according to McIntosh (1915) Savigny who, as we know, was 'pirated' at MS stage before publication by Lamarck's encyclopedia, still included genus Spio "amongst the nereids", that is at family level, as did Lamarck. Spio caudatus appears to be an unnecessary replacement name of Lamarck's applied in front of Polydora cornuta Bosc, 1802 for reasons unknown. No one else has/had made the link as far I know. This arose because Lamarck somehow became confused about what was a "Spio a queue" (his heading for S. caudatus the spionid) as against a 'nereid with a tail' thing (but don't they all have one?). Perhaps he'd seen something in other manuscripts, perhaps delle Chiaje's as well as Savigny's (I'm suspicious at this coincidence in name and period!). Unfortunately, despite the mistake and the brevity, probably Lamarck's name is available and is the primary homonym against the Spio caudatus intended for a nereid by delle Chiaje. The junior name is permanently invalid unless someone makes an application to the Commission to suppress Lamarck's name. A second matter is I cannot understand why Hartman p390 misleadingly makes reference to "delle Chiaje, 1828, in Quatrefages, 1865" for Spio caudatus, instead of just citing the delle Chiaje reference. Unless it slipped through from a time when she had not seen delle Chiaje and was relying on Quatrefages for the details he does give. There are further examples of the practice on that page and the next. Finally I've just noticed that Day's 1967 monograph has the type locality of Nereis caudata as Massachusetts! Finally finally, if I was researching N. caudata I'd need to look carefully at the delle Chiaje 1822 and 1841 papers to see if the same entity was being discussed. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Wed Nov 24 12:58:26 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA17992; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:58:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:58:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911242058.MAA17992@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Kristian Fauchald" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Spio caudatus Ah the wonders of irregular publications! In this case, we have two sets of them actually. As Geoff pointed out, Savigny's manuscript was sitting around in the Paris Museum for a long time, probably about 10 years before it was finally issued in the elephant folios of Description of Egypt. Both Lamarck and Cuvier pirated the MS, one more for genera, the other more for species (I have no idea why that happened). However, Delle Chiaje's papers are also a mess and I do not believe anybody has completely cleared out exactly what went on, but the story is roughly: Every time Delle Chiaje had enough to print a sheet or so, he had that done, and these bits were issued, more or less formally. Towards the end of the particular effort he would collect up the accumulated pages and issue them as a book. He did this twice, first in the 1820's and then in the early 1840's. Cuvier and Lamarck issued their volumes on worms in 1816 and 1818 and may have known about Delle Chiaje's work, but it is unlikely that they saw it. There is little in Savigny's finally issued tome to indicate that he had modified his MS over time. It is hardly likely that the type of Delle Chiaje's caudata was from anywhere else than somewhere off Napoli. Kristian Fauchald -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Wed Nov 24 17:58:47 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA15757; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:58:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:58:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911250158.RAA15757@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Geoff Read" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Organization: NIWA (Nat. Inst. Water & Atmos. Res. NZ) Subject: Lamarck & Cuvier - Re: Spio caudatus An appropriate time to mention that Stephen J. Gould recently had a couple of his regular columns devoted to Lamarck and Cuvier, and the development of the idea of Vermes. For those that haven't seen them already, and are interested in such history, they might be worth reading. Gould, S. J. 1999. A division of worms. The use and disuse of Lamarck.— Natural History, 108(1):18,20,22,76-81. Gould, S. J. 1999. Branching through a wormhole. Lamarck's ladder collapses.— Natural History, 108(2):24-27, 84-89. -- Geoff Read -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Thu Nov 25 01:23:52 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA22347; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:23:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:23:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911250923.BAA22347@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Andrew.Mackie@nmgw.ac.uk Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Dates for Delle Chiaje Kristian is certainly correct. The dates for delle Chiaje's publications are a mess. However, some help is available. Carlo Davies Sherbourn, author of the multi part "Index Animalium sive index nominum quae ab A.D. MDCCLVIII generibus et speciebus animalium imposita sunt" Publ. Trustees of the British Museum 1923 (lists all genera and species described 1801-1850) researched the dates. On the BMNH copy of Delle Chiaje (1823-1831) Sherbourn has added some clarifying notes; in some cases with justification for his comments. These are as follows: Vol I (Title page dated 1823) "CDS: pp. 1-84 1823, pp. 1-184 1824. see Isis 1832, p. 541" Note that volume I page numbers do not run in one sequence! Vol II (Title page dated 1825) "CDS: pp. 1-224 (?) 1825, pp 225-end 1827" Vol III (Title page dated 1828) "CDS: 1828 appears to be correct for this volume" Vol IV (Title page dated 1829) "CDS: 1829 for this vol. is wrong. On p. 29 Cuvier, Regne Anim. III ed 2 is quoted this is 1830. I believe the proper collation is pp. 1-116 1830, 117-214 1831 as Chiaje especially mentions Schultze's MS on p. viii" For those without access to the publication the reference to Schultz is Schultz (A.W.F) D.M. in Berlino. Osservazioni mss. del suo viaggi fatto nelle due Sicilie negli anni 1830 e 31. There is also a slim Vol. V of plates only. This is dated 1830, but I do not know if this is correct or not. Andy Mackie Dr Andrew S.Y. Mackie Head of Marine Biodiversity Section Department of Biodiversity and Systematic Biology (BioSyB) National Museum of Wales Cathays Park Cardiff CF10 3NP UK Tel: int +44 (0)1222 573 311 Fax: int +44 (0)1222 239 009 E-mail: Andrew.Mackie@nmgw.ac.uk Web: http://websrv1.nmgw.ac.uk/biosyb/index.en.shtml Specimens: http://zoology.nmgw.ac.uk:591/Museum/Home.htm -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Thu Nov 25 08:53:43 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA06603; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:53:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:53:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911251653.IAA06603@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Andrew.Mackie@nmgw.ac.uk Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Dates for Delle Chiaje Apologies for giving the date for Sherborn (not Sherbourn) as 1823. In fact there were 33 parts published between 1922 and 1933. Further, on p. xxxvii of Part I. Introduction, Bibliography and Index A-Aff. pp. 1-128 (1922) Sherborn gives the dates for Delle Chiaje as follows: "Chiaje, S. della. Mem. Anim. vertebre Regno Napoli. 4 vols. (5 & 6 never publ.). 4to. Nap. 1823-31. [Dates: I, pp. 1-84, 1823; -184, 1824; II, 185- 224, 1825; -444, 1827; III, 1-232, 1828; IV, 1-116, 1830; -214, 1831; pls. 70-109, of which text never appeared, 1830, are listed in Isis, 1836, 291, and were renumbered and used in Chiaje, Descr. e Notom. 1841-44.] --- Elminth. umana. 8vo. Nap. 1825. [Ed. 2, 1833; ed. 4, 1844.] --- Descr. e Notom. Anim. invert. Sicilia. 4to. Nap. 1841-44. [Vols. I-V (1841) & VIII (ends p. 48, 1844); text & vols. V & VI, pls. 1-173 (1841) & pls. 174-181 (1844).]" In the last reference there appears to be no vol. VII, however vol. V is mentioned twice. I do not know if the "text & vols. V & VI" is an error and should perhaps be "text & vols. VI & VII"? Unfortunately I do not have access to this publication. Someone who does could usefully check their volumes. Andy Mackie Dr Andrew S.Y. Mackie Head of Marine Biodiversity Section Department of Biodiversity and Systematic Biology (BioSyB) National Museum of Wales Cathays Park Cardiff CF10 3NP UK Tel: int +44 (0)1222 573 311 Fax: int +44 (0)1222 239 009 E-mail: Andrew.Mackie@nmgw.ac.uk Web: http://websrv1.nmgw.ac.uk/biosyb/index.en.shtml Specimens: http://zoology.nmgw.ac.uk:591/Museum/Home.htm -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Thu Nov 25 12:59:35 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA01554; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:59:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:59:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911252059.MAA01554@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: "Petersen, Mary Elizabeth (MSX)" Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Re: Dates for Delle Chiaje Since Andy corrected the last name, this correction is even more minor. Andy wrote: Carlo Davies Sherbourn, author of the multi part "Index Animalium sive index nominum quae ab A.D. MDCCLVIII generibus et speciebus animalium imposita sunt" Publ. Trustees of the British Museum 1923 (lists all genera and species described 1801-1850) researched the dates. At least in the earlier 1902 part (genera and species described 1758-1800), the compiler's correct name in the version (Latinized?) on the title page is Carolo Davies Sherborn, with one more "o" in his first name. This first volume is very useful for the earliest literature even if the references are very abbreviated. Mary Mary E. Petersen Zoological Museum, University of Copenhagen mepetersen@zmuc.ku.dk -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Fri Nov 26 18:44:03 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA11647; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:44:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:44:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911270244.SAA11647@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net From: JDMeissner@aol.com Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net Subject: Palouse worm Please. Where can I get info. about the Palouse worm of Washington state that grows up to 18 inches long? Thanks. jdmeissner@aol.com -- ANNELIDA Discuss = annelida@net.bio.net = talk to all members Server = biosci-server@net.bio.net = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html -- From daemon Sun Nov 28 13:03:37 1999 Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA22719; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:03:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:03:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199911282103.NAA22719@net.bio.net> To: annelida@net.bio.net Reply-To: annelida@net.bio.net From: Sam James Subject: Re: Palouse worm >Please. Where can I get info. about the Palouse worm of Washington >state that grows up to 18 inches long? Thanks. > >jdmeissner@aol.com There is not much information to get. It is called Driloleirus americanus. It lives in the Palouse area in grassland and shrublands, and has been found so far near Ellensburg WA, Pullman WA, Clarkston WA and Lewiston ID. It makes fairly deep burrows, it eats a diet rich in organic matter, and is endangered or threatened, so don't go out digging them up. The regional authorities on the worm and others from the Pacific NW are W. Michael Fender and his mother, Dorothy McKey-Fender. She is at 835 Ashwood Avenue, McMinnville, OR. If you need any further help and cannot contact the Fenders, let me know. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Sam James ~ ~ Dept. of Biology ~ ~ Maharishi Univ. of Mgmt. ~ ~ 1000 N. 4th St. FM 1056 ~ ~ Fairfield, IA 52557 ~ ~ sjames@mum.edu ~ ~ 515-472-1146 ~ ~ Systematics and Ecology ~ ~ of Earthworms ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ANNELIDA LIST Discuss = = talk to all members Server = = un/subscribes Archives = http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/ANNELIDA/ Resources = http://biodiversity.uno.edu/~worms/annelid.html --