From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 04 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!NET.BIO.NET!kristoff From: kristoff@NET.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: test, please ignore Message-ID: Date: 5 Oct 93 23:04:33 GMT Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net Distribution: bionet Lines: 2 Test, please ignore. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 07 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!lhc!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!treon From: treon@u.washington.edu (Treon Verdery) Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,sci.med,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: mitochondrial DNA therapy for aging Message-ID: <294mlh$15n@news.u.washington.edu> Date: 8 Oct 93 21:38:57 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 568 Xref: biosci sci.life-extension:799 sci.med:24246 bionet.molbio.ageing:508 NNTP-Posting-Host: goren.u.washington.edu *All comments are welcome!* *Please write!* A few months ago I had what seemed to be an insight about mitochondrial DNA therapy, longevity, and cancer. Other activities in life have kept me from devoting as much time as I'd like to these ideas. I post them now in hopes that they will provide some useful stimulation to real researchers. All copyright is reserved, and I specifically claim ownership of the ideas for patent or other purposes. Distribution is set to USA only, please maintain this distribution on any followups. >> Dr. Patil/Chris - I'll be amending this document with lots of postnotes, >> indicated by the double >>. This file consists of three parts: >> the unsophisticated write up produced a few hours after having the basic >> ideas. This section contains some *drastic* inaccuracies, but you will >> get the drift of it. The second part is a letter with some additional >> concept refinement, and the third part is a patentistic description of >> most of the above, plus many new ideas. >> This file is huge, but the crux of it is in the first 2-3K of words >> so don't despair at the length. >> I hope you find it thought provoking, and I welcome (a polite way to >> say urge!) any comments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ anyway, here's the big idea... maybe a BIG idea, sort of section three, subparagraph two of the holy grail of Big Ideas... A new class of pharmaceutical therapy for keeping mitochondria from accumulating deletions during replication, also known throughout Europe and America as... "Eternal Youth" (Wow what Severe Hype! I'm not sure Hype can get any more grandiose than that... seriously though, I've been looking though Medline this evening trying to pin the idea(s) down and offer real support for some vague points. you will find *many* errors, but read on!) here goes: Have you heard of the mitochondrial theory of aging? As I vaguely remember it goes quite a bit like this: Mitochondria do not reproduce sexually. As your cells divide mitochondria replicate themselves. In order to create a new cell, 'about' 100 new mitochondria have to be replicated. Mitochondrial DNA is kinda like a simple circular plasmid with a Start sequence, an End sequence and in-between sequences encoding protein production. These '100' mitochondria, each with its own mtDNA, replicate as individuals. Each of these '100' are subject to point mutations and deletions during the life of the cell. Mitochondrial DNA is unusually susceptible to deletion at specific weak points. So much so that while about 100% of a newborn's mitochondria will be doing their job, only 20% of a 60 year old's mitochondria will be working. Each cell has much less energy available for protein synthesis in general. This has been specifically linked with changes in tissue behavior and senesence. Particularly exciting is the observation that damaged (smaller/bearing deletions) mtDNA is replicated *preferentially* 'simply' because there is less stuff between the Start and End sequences of the mtDNA! Nonfunctional mutations accumulate in that cell's line with each cell division, and with each generation of new cells there is a (modified) exponential rise in the number of dysfunctional mitochondria per cell. AND NOW FOR THE PUNCHLINE I'm pretty darned sure I've figured out a way to make mtDNA (mtDNA specifically) less sensitive to deletions and/or cause the replication process to avoid replicating mtDNA that is missing (specific) big chunks. Perhaps in a pill no less -no viruses or even nanotechnology ;-) It'll seem easier to swallow (gulp!), if I describe a couple functioning concepts that are commercialized now, and operate using methods I'm going to borrow: Component idea 1) Zovirax is an anti-viral drug for herpes. here's how it works: Viruses that Zovirax targets like to make themselves out of specific amino acid sequences. during replication they find these sequences floating around and incorporate them into structure. People who take zovirax tablets are really taking pills filled with a specific amino acid-sequence that the virus wants. ALMOST. The Zovirax sequence contains an amino-acid that is the L-isomer. (er, maybe) The cell produces all the little virus copies, but none of them work - that is, none of them can infect a second generation of cells. The drug is 'safe' because the rest of the body has little interest in the tricked-out amino acid sequence, and because virii reproduce quickly and are the preferential uptakers. Component idea 2) In the Bad Old Days there was a class of sedatives called Bromides. Essentially, people would take Bromine compounds (KBr) until some of their Cl had been replaced by Br and the electrical potentials in their nerves had changed a bit. Unfortunately, as the Br built up, eventually all sorts of stuff would go out of whack. and here's component idea 3) Cellular chemistry is traced with radioactive isotopes. Scientists have recently taken specific note than some tritiated proteins (tritium instead of H) diffuse across mitochondrial membranes much more slowly(increased mass). The cellular chemistry that the radiolabelled compounds execute is, however, generally the same. At sufficient mass increases however, the chemical functionality radically changes. *******Now, as best as I can explain it so far here's the idea: Assemble amino acid sequences that have preferential uptake for mtDNA replication. 'weight' these sequences so that their total mass is the same as a naturally occuring sequence, BUT make some of the individual proteins out of Heavier, and also Lighter *stable* isotopes. ((**This is the drug.**)) an example: normal original protein fragment: CGGACCTAGT Heavy Gaunidine version: CggACCTAg (lowercase = deuterium as substitute for H, or perhaps C13 for C12, or perhaps some O isotope let's pretend that the T's have some lighter stable isotope(N) so that the total mass of this sequence is the same as the normal original.) I have to pause and add some helpful additional concepts: One of the reasons mtDNA accumulates deletions is that some places along the amino acid sequence are fragile, that is, they like to drop out under replication. Simplistically, there are some weak links in what is otherwise a strong chain. (NOT! -my how learned this all sounds. free grains of salt: .. . ... ) Bacteria that live in deep sea thermal vents thrive at temperatures above 212 F. These bacteria have many of the same enzymes and protein chemistry cycles as cool cells, their proteins are almost exactly the same, however, some of their proteins are less 'ornate', less 'sticky'; with fewer opportunities to pick up thermal motions and cross-link. The rapid folding-and unfolding of hot-cell proteins is also somewhat different... Some scientists speculate that hot bacteria were first, and that proteins evolved stickier, more ornate, more-cross-linkable molecular forms to adapt to cooler environments. Just as a floating concept: imagine a partially deuterated enzyme as much more sluggish at low temperatures...normal at higher temperatures... obviously the things the enzyme reacts with would have trouble w/the higher temperatures though... >> sudden thought: is there a dueterated PCR patent enzyme work around? It strikes me that there are possible strategies for using light and heavy amino acids to 1) bog down/break the replication of specific misbegotten (deletion-flagging) amino acid sequences 2) protect weak spots from damage, but not from replication (w/a slight differential of charge potential) 3) all kinds of other stuff that messes with RNA A typical 1) strategy: A Grungy strategy to bog down shortened mtDNAs is this: After dosing the organism with isotopically peculiar amino acid sequences the 'normal nonmutant' mtDNA has a 'normal' mass and reactivity. Those mtDNA that have experienced typical deletions at the 'weak links' have unusual isotope concentrations that affect the behavior of the protein replication: ok-to-replicate version: CgAgg + gCTCC = thermodynamically ok to replicate but: CgAgggggg + GCTCCCCCC = thermodynamically slow/prohibited as all the heavies cluster together and/or are limited by diffusion speed/availability of bits with all those heavy ggggs. I guess you could call this "putting the wrong size pins on the zipper" - when you get the big pins, and the big zip there isn't enough energy/room to pull it any farther - but if you have at least 1 small pin it will work. (Iffy indeed, but I can think of an experiment to test it - hoping to find the components of the experiment on medline). An interesting alternative to "wrong size pins on the zipper" is "slower pins on the zipper reduce the risk of speedy accidents", or perhaps, "I'm only going to zipper you if your start sequence includes light/heavy isotopes - and deletion-prone versions versions lack this light or heavy sequence. In fact, once you begin thinking about it, there are a lot of "ordinary" things that could happen to work on this problem - without any isotope naughtiness at all. I guess what is most important from my perspective is the idea that stable isotopes, with some degree of clever manipulation, can be used as amino acid replication/synthesis modifiers. Now I have a lot of reading to do! (Did you notice that I didn't mention mRNA hardly at all?) -Treon Here are some medline references at the end for background and stuff. I should have copied more but they seemed long enough as it was. you can search medline anytime you want to follow your own fancies - (you probably know this address) just: telnet uwin.u.washington.edu #1 is an example of Tritiated compounds doing the same chemistry, but 3-9X slower (within mitochondria (but not reproduction) no less!) #2-4 are lame, but exploratory examples of mtDNA accumulating damage at extreme exponential rates and how this affects cellular energy and the respiration cycle. my info comes from a dimly remembered review article that was much clearer... P.S. BOO!! be my friend! write back!! (you are eligible for a medal for reading this far...) #1 Loss of tritium from a substrate is often used to estimate the rate of dehydrogenation. However, loss of 3H may be much slower than loss of H because of the tritium isotope effect. In order to assess the impact of the tritium isotope effect, loss of 3H from the C-5 position of proline during dehydrogenation by rat liver mitochondria and bacteroids from soybean (Glycine max [L.] Merrill) nodules was compared with appearance of 14C in products of [14C]proline dehydrogenation. Incubations were carried out in the presence of o-aminobenzaldehyde (added to trap the initial product, delta 1-pyroline-5-carboxylate). The fraction of total 14C products trapped by o-aminobenzaldehyde varied from 0.07 to 0.75 depending upon experimental conditions. With rat liver mitochondria, dehydrogenation of [14C]proline was between 3.27 and 9.25 times faster than dehydrogenation of 3H proline, depending upon assay conditions. Soybean nodule bacteriods dehydrogenated [14C]proline about 5 times faster than [3H]proline. We conclude the following: (i) the rate of proline dehydrogenation may be greatly underestimated by the tritium assay because of the tritium isotope effect, and (ii) the 14C assay may underestimate the rate of proline dehydrogenation if it is assumed that o-aminobenzaldehyde quantitatively traps delta 1-pyrroline-5-carboxylate under all conditions. The simplicity of the tritium assay makes it attractive for routine use. However, its use requires determination of the tritium isotope effect, under the specific conditions of the assay, in order to correct the results. The considerations discussed here have broad applicability to any dehydrogenase assay employing tritium loss. #2 The analysis of human skeletal muscle mitochondria revealed aprogressive decline in mitochondrial respiratory chain function with age. The activities affected to the greatest extent were those of complexes I and IV which were decreased by 59% and 47% respectively between the ages of 20-30 years and 60-90 years of age. Quantitation of the 5 kb 'common' deletion of mtDNA using PCR revealed a progressive accumulation with age, from approximately 1 in 100,000 at 21 years to 1 in 10,000 at 56 years and 1 in 5000 at 78 years of age. The low absolute levels of this mutation are unlikely to contribute significantly to the observed mitochondrial dysfunction. Previous theories of aging based on somatic mutation neglected mtDNA, which has a high propensity for mutational error. Knowledge of yeast mtDNA mutations and their functional effects, and of human mtDNA mutations identified in the mitochondrial cytopathies, provides for a concept of aging based on the cumulative effect of mutations affecting human mtDNA. An essential feature of this concept is heteroplasmy, representing mixtures of normal and mutant mtDNA at the cellular and mitochondrial level, resulting in a "tissue mosaic" of focal bioenergetic deficits. Direct evidence for the concept is provided by (i) focal loss of staining for mitochondrially encoded enzymes, such as cytochrome c oxidase, in tissues of aged individuals (humans and rats) and (ii) an age-related increase in deletional mutations in mtDNA demonstrable by application of the polymerase chain reaction to DNA templates from individuals of different ages. Some mutations in mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) causing a number of neuromuscular diseases are suggested to arisespontaneously during the life of an individual. To substantiate the extent and the rate of these somatic mutations, mtDNA specimens from post-mortem human heart muscles of subjects in differing age groups were hydrolyzed. 8-Hydroxy-deoxyguanosine (8-OH-dG), a hydroxyl-radical adduct of deoxyguanosine, in mtDNA, was quantitatively determined using a micro high-performance liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry system. In each specimen, the mtDNA with a 7.4 kilo base-pair deletion was quantified by the kinetic polymerase chain reaction method. In association with age, the 8-OH-dG content accumulated exponentially up to 1.5% with a correlative increase in the content of the deleted mtDNA up to 7%. Clear correlation between the 8-OH-dG content in mtDNA and the population of mtDNA with a deletion (r = 0.93, P < 0.01) gives insight into the mechanism for the generation of a large deletion. These results indicate thataccumulation of somatically acquired oxygen damage together with age-associated mutations in mtDNA which lead to bioenergetic deficiency and the heart muscle weakness are inevitable in human life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of the email extraction from the first letter. Here is an extraction from a second letter that I wrote to a friend. Anyway, Hello! Thanks for asking if you could pass the idea on first - I never bothered to get it notarized so I'll do that today so that you can pass it on to Peter say Thursday. It is a building thrill to have someone else interested and to hopefully add some explorations and accuracies. Makes me nervous too! That version I sent you was written about 4 hours after the original inspiration So, um, it'll read really dumb to someone who knows what they are talking about. I think it has been 6-8 weeks since I wrote that, and have learned all sorts of shoring-up and eroding-down influences to the central idea: And now... some inferences from the literature: Plus: * There are specific common deletion sites in mtDNA that result in large, unique amino acid sequences suitable as labels * the idea is obviously portable to other genetic and protein pharmacological things; RE aging, it also has direct application to other aging theories/aging markers notably the telomeric marker/tape leader theories and what I'd call the psuedocaloric restriction methionine displacer theory * A similar idea/set of ideas has never appeared in the abstracted literature/patent databses I've looked in * Rats forced to live out their lives on 30% D2O are normal (an incredible puzzle there I'd say) Minus: * people with progeria, a very unusual rapid aging syndrome do not have mtDNA problems at all (secret plus: they do have shortened telomeres proportional to the shortening seen in people of their apparent physical age!) * Cancer research suggests that that targeting is very difficult; then again, maybe I've lucked out and thought of a harmless-unless-cancerous mechanism. or even a cancer prophylactic of a different nature than antioxidants sort of like invisible chemotherapy. >> -distributed stable isotopes lie in transparent wait until cancer/other >> bioprocesses concentrate them and 1) retard them 2) signal them. >> Advantage: minimal/no toxicity excaept at active concentration/comnination >> sites (Andrew... the minuses are turning into positive wild speculation! This is good - but I started out wanting to write a balanced treatment for You and Peter) More Wild Speculation * currently existing gene therapies could add another degree of 'facility' by influencing the residence times and stabilities of introduced genes, as well as marking sites for secondary therapies. The whole idea of tagging, signalling, and modifying cellular stuff without active chemical groups just floats there... suggesting wild stuff like cellular early-early-early diagnoses dianoses based on excretion/assay of oddball Isotope-loaded amino acid sequences. The various forms of matching and concentration that I know about in cells suggest statistical 'control'(?) of how much of what accumulates where. Nucleic acid dynamics are so bizarre that there are many different sorts of active and inactive structures to tweak on... ...I guess I'm just really turned on by the idea of chemicals that in low concentrations mimic perfectly their normal isotope cousins, but at times of unusual concentration due to replication, or other cellular protein production can influence cellular processes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ End of text extraction from letter to Andrew Greenberg. Here are some notes, wrtten today, June 23, 1993 about the whole thing...Ideas not stated here may have been created at an earlier date than today, but are in some other paper form I don't have access to right now. A* Ok, so we've got a stable isotopes incorporated into nucleic acid sequences or other, even *non-protein* polymers concept going. I'm going to use the word stable isotopes generally, but under the right conditions sufficiently 'cool' radioactive isotopes might be useful in producing the same kind of isotope-effects I'm expecting stable isotopes to be adequate for. These stable isotopes, lighter or heavier, or more homogenous-in-percentage than as found in a typical situation are instrumental in: Causing rate of reaction changes Influencing thermal lability of proteins/polymers Creating clines and/or thresholds of reactivity/bonding intensity/membrane transport Changing the physical spacing/volume dynamics of proteins/polymers Causing absorption and emmisivity changes in response to light/radiation These are very general, but combining them we get: A0*: The facility of slowing/speeding up, stopping, forking, or breaking transcription, replication, or expression processes in relation to DNA and RNA, or other information containing polymers that are partially or completely composed of atypical stable isotopes. This includes the possibility of creating proteins/polymers of the same molecular mass as a typical protein/polymer, but with both atypical heavy and light isotopes combining to give the typical mass. and... The specific use of A* + A0* to affect the way in which mitochondrial DNA is involved in replication, or for that matter nuclear DNA/RNA, esp. telomeres. I note here also the idea of atypical isotope biomolecules as differing structural elements so that they hold up differently over time - independent of replication. Isotopes might be introduced as a specific actor in response to an acute condition or a specific interest in action. Alternatively, isotope loading could occur prior to an acute interest, perhaps as a baseline, or in the case of several paragraphs that follow, as a kind of prophylactic loading action that would later be brought to the point of activity by significant grouping of the isotopes. Specific uses of A0* to signal, label, or act upon DNA/RNA activities in a living organism that are of interest: A disease, cancer, or other bioactivity is associated with the transcription, recombination, expression, or concentration of amino acids, proteins or amino acid sequences. Could be a gene thing, or just a protein product. As a result of this process, Numerically variable, significant-to-action quantities of isotopes are matched and/or otherwise grouped together, either within new molecules, or just as a nonbonded percentage. A1*: This togetherness or grouping: 1)could cause a change in A* + A0* as therapy or create an intermediary to to #2: 2)could be noted as some sort of excretion product or other detectable/assayable concentration, and used as a label and/or signal as to the type or location of the disease/other bioactivity in progress. These might, or might not, contain an element of signal coding to them to reveal specifics about the process that caused the grouping. 3) could be used as a signal to an additional compound for binding or location information. In addition to the straightforward case, here is one of several plausabilities: weaker bonding by the Isopically different amino acids on one side of a paired sequence might allow a different chemical to have special reaction/recognition possibilities with the isotopically normal side of the paired sequence because of changes in bond strength or shape. A2*: In a nongrouped, nonactive situation, information could be noted, or accumulated as history in a DNA/RNA/protein product in vivo as a result of the isotope exchanges during the cellular process-history. A plausibility is the embedment of data or compressed data for the use of introduced, or induced, cellular processes. Because the coding involves isotope substitution and not active chemical groups, it should be essentially transparent to routine cellular chemistry. In addition to activities that read this extra coding, the historical path of cellular disease might be specifically backtracked, or mechanisms might be used to encode previous in vivo states in the isotopic coding area. A3* an example of isotopic substitution used in a viral therapy might be as follows: Let's write this part later huh? B* The use of A* mechanisms in essentially nonbiological, ex vivo applications: B1* Others have mentioned the use of amino acid sequences as masks and/or deposition surfaces or guides for making semiconductors and special micro-scale machines - mechanical, chemical, electric, or photofunctional. By creating amino acid sequences or other polymers with areas of isotopic substitution, all of, or areas upon these masks/templates/sites might have an additional range of facility in processing that involves temperature, bonding, or mass-sorting techniques like electrophoresis or centrifugal/acceleration effects that can be easily inferred from A* and even the loading mechanisms of A0*. Differences in spectral/charge properties as energized by light/radiation may be considered an additional area of facility also. B2* by creating a standard set of amino acid/polymer sequences with different areas of substitution, a kind of shape set is created. Example: standard sequence --> PCR for a plurality of identical seeds for next step (say 5 seeds for simplicity of example) -->amplification of standard sequence; seed one has special light/heavy aminos/mers on one end, seed two on the other end, seed three in the middle, seed 4 all heavy, light, whatever. In polymers of width, angle patterning of isotopes might be constructed. Fabrication can be facilitated by: Placing elements of this shape set together, most likely on a substrate, and then sorting/removing as necessary either the isotopically atypical portions or the other portions using the extra facility suggested by A* and some A0* concepts. B3*: Also, the possibility of using mass-sorting effects to, for example, spin certain patterns by the facility of mass distribution, or electrophoretically draw with/patternize the amino acids/other polymers and create templates/masks/deposition sites so that desired designs are created. B4*: Photo effects might allow for selective absorption and [ablation or fixation] at atypical isotopic sites or molecules. Photoeffects with emission-involving isotopic difference and feedbackto the photosource that causes special ablation or fixing may also be used to enhance patternmaking or fabrication of devices. B5: Building up effects like arborization might take place, followed by removal or deposition of other active chemicals/semiconductors/etc. by the A* facility. Ok, that's it for now. It is 11:43 PM on 6/23/93 - Treon Verdery >> B6: nanotech micromachines that make use of [matching/accumulation etc.] >> or structural [from erosion to shaping to spacing] concepts, or >> photofunctional, or information carrying through isotopes, isotope >> laden polymers, or isotope layers, patterns, or tracks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Patil/Chris - thanks for reading all of that. I'd love a response by email, but since the original text document is so large talking might be more convenient. If you like, call me at the University of Washington at (206) 685-7831, and I'll call you back so it's on my dime. What do you think? -Treon From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 08 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cats.ucsc.edu!beckman From: beckman@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas J Beckman) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: DNA base pairs/turn and aging? Summary: DNA base pairs/turn and ageing? Keywords: DNA ageing Message-ID: <2970ri$89@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Date: 9 Oct 93 18:45:06 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu I've heard that the number of base pairs per turn of human DNA decreases with ageing. I'm looking for references about this. Thanks for any information. -- Tom Beckman beckman@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 10 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!s.u-tokyo!news.tisn.ad.jp!news.u-tokyo.ac.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!sh.wide!wnoc-kyo!oskgate0.mei!chorus.mei!panasonic.com!newsserver.jvnc.net!udel!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!treon From: treon@u.washington.edu (Treon Verdery) Newsgroups: sci.life-extension,sci.med,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: mitochondrial DNA therapy for aging Message-ID: <294mlh$15n@news.u.washington.edu> Date: 8 Oct 93 21:38:57 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 568 Xref: biosci sci.life-extension:816 sci.med:24404 bionet.molbio.ageing:510 NNTP-Posting-Host: goren.u.washington.edu *All comments are welcome!* *Please write!* A few months ago I had what seemed to be an insight about mitochondrial DNA therapy, longevity, and cancer. Other activities in life have kept me from devoting as much time as I'd like to these ideas. I post them now in hopes that they will provide some useful stimulation to real researchers. All copyright is reserved, and I specifically claim ownership of the ideas for patent or other purposes. Distribution is set to USA only, please maintain this distribution on any followups. >> Dr. Patil/Chris - I'll be amending this document with lots of postnotes, >> indicated by the double >>. This file consists of three parts: >> the unsophisticated write up produced a few hours after having the basic >> ideas. This section contains some *drastic* inaccuracies, but you will >> get the drift of it. The second part is a letter with some additional >> concept refinement, and the third part is a patentistic description of >> most of the above, plus many new ideas. >> This file is huge, but the crux of it is in the first 2-3K of words >> so don't despair at the length. >> I hope you find it thought provoking, and I welcome (a polite way to >> say urge!) any comments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ anyway, here's the big idea... maybe a BIG idea, sort of section three, subparagraph two of the holy grail of Big Ideas... A new class of pharmaceutical therapy for keeping mitochondria from accumulating deletions during replication, also known throughout Europe and America as... "Eternal Youth" (Wow what Severe Hype! I'm not sure Hype can get any more grandiose than that... seriously though, I've been looking though Medline this evening trying to pin the idea(s) down and offer real support for some vague points. you will find *many* errors, but read on!) here goes: Have you heard of the mitochondrial theory of aging? As I vaguely remember it goes quite a bit like this: Mitochondria do not reproduce sexually. As your cells divide mitochondria replicate themselves. In order to create a new cell, 'about' 100 new mitochondria have to be replicated. Mitochondrial DNA is kinda like a simple circular plasmid with a Start sequence, an End sequence and in-between sequences encoding protein production. These '100' mitochondria, each with its own mtDNA, replicate as individuals. Each of these '100' are subject to point mutations and deletions during the life of the cell. Mitochondrial DNA is unusually susceptible to deletion at specific weak points. So much so that while about 100% of a newborn's mitochondria will be doing their job, only 20% of a 60 year old's mitochondria will be working. Each cell has much less energy available for protein synthesis in general. This has been specifically linked with changes in tissue behavior and senesence. Particularly exciting is the observation that damaged (smaller/bearing deletions) mtDNA is replicated *preferentially* 'simply' because there is less stuff between the Start and End sequences of the mtDNA! Nonfunctional mutations accumulate in that cell's line with each cell division, and with each generation of new cells there is a (modified) exponential rise in the number of dysfunctional mitochondria per cell. AND NOW FOR THE PUNCHLINE I'm pretty darned sure I've figured out a way to make mtDNA (mtDNA specifically) less sensitive to deletions and/or cause the replication process to avoid replicating mtDNA that is missing (specific) big chunks. Perhaps in a pill no less -no viruses or even nanotechnology ;-) It'll seem easier to swallow (gulp!), if I describe a couple functioning concepts that are commercialized now, and operate using methods I'm going to borrow: Component idea 1) Zovirax is an anti-viral drug for herpes. here's how it works: Viruses that Zovirax targets like to make themselves out of specific amino acid sequences. during replication they find these sequences floating around and incorporate them into structure. People who take zovirax tablets are really taking pills filled with a specific amino acid-sequence that the virus wants. ALMOST. The Zovirax sequence contains an amino-acid that is the L-isomer. (er, maybe) The cell produces all the little virus copies, but none of them work - that is, none of them can infect a second generation of cells. The drug is 'safe' because the rest of the body has little interest in the tricked-out amino acid sequence, and because virii reproduce quickly and are the preferential uptakers. Component idea 2) In the Bad Old Days there was a class of sedatives called Bromides. Essentially, people would take Bromine compounds (KBr) until some of their Cl had been replaced by Br and the electrical potentials in their nerves had changed a bit. Unfortunately, as the Br built up, eventually all sorts of stuff would go out of whack. and here's component idea 3) Cellular chemistry is traced with radioactive isotopes. Scientists have recently taken specific note than some tritiated proteins (tritium instead of H) diffuse across mitochondrial membranes much more slowly(increased mass). The cellular chemistry that the radiolabelled compounds execute is, however, generally the same. At sufficient mass increases however, the chemical functionality radically changes. *******Now, as best as I can explain it so far here's the idea: Assemble amino acid sequences that have preferential uptake for mtDNA replication. 'weight' these sequences so that their total mass is the same as a naturally occuring sequence, BUT make some of the individual proteins out of Heavier, and also Lighter *stable* isotopes. ((**This is the drug.**)) an example: normal original protein fragment: CGGACCTAGT Heavy Gaunidine version: CggACCTAg (lowercase = deuterium as substitute for H, or perhaps C13 for C12, or perhaps some O isotope let's pretend that the T's have some lighter stable isotope(N) so that the total mass of this sequence is the same as the normal original.) I have to pause and add some helpful additional concepts: One of the reasons mtDNA accumulates deletions is that some places along the amino acid sequence are fragile, that is, they like to drop out under replication. Simplistically, there are some weak links in what is otherwise a strong chain. (NOT! -my how learned this all sounds. free grains of salt: .. . ... ) Bacteria that live in deep sea thermal vents thrive at temperatures above 212 F. These bacteria have many of the same enzymes and protein chemistry cycles as cool cells, their proteins are almost exactly the same, however, some of their proteins are less 'ornate', less 'sticky'; with fewer opportunities to pick up thermal motions and cross-link. The rapid folding-and unfolding of hot-cell proteins is also somewhat different... Some scientists speculate that hot bacteria were first, and that proteins evolved stickier, more ornate, more-cross-linkable molecular forms to adapt to cooler environments. Just as a floating concept: imagine a partially deuterated enzyme as much more sluggish at low temperatures...normal at higher temperatures... obviously the things the enzyme reacts with would have trouble w/the higher temperatures though... >> sudden thought: is there a dueterated PCR patent enzyme work around? It strikes me that there are possible strategies for using light and heavy amino acids to 1) bog down/break the replication of specific misbegotten (deletion-flagging) amino acid sequences 2) protect weak spots from damage, but not from replication (w/a slight differential of charge potential) 3) all kinds of other stuff that messes with RNA A typical 1) strategy: A Grungy strategy to bog down shortened mtDNAs is this: After dosing the organism with isotopically peculiar amino acid sequences the 'normal nonmutant' mtDNA has a 'normal' mass and reactivity. Those mtDNA that have experienced typical deletions at the 'weak links' have unusual isotope concentrations that affect the behavior of the protein replication: ok-to-replicate version: CgAgg + gCTCC = thermodynamically ok to replicate but: CgAgggggg + GCTCCCCCC = thermodynamically slow/prohibited as all the heavies cluster together and/or are limited by diffusion speed/availability of bits with all those heavy ggggs. I guess you could call this "putting the wrong size pins on the zipper" - when you get the big pins, and the big zip there isn't enough energy/room to pull it any farther - but if you have at least 1 small pin it will work. (Iffy indeed, but I can think of an experiment to test it - hoping to find the components of the experiment on medline). An interesting alternative to "wrong size pins on the zipper" is "slower pins on the zipper reduce the risk of speedy accidents", or perhaps, "I'm only going to zipper you if your start sequence includes light/heavy isotopes - and deletion-prone versions versions lack this light or heavy sequence. In fact, once you begin thinking about it, there are a lot of "ordinary" things that could happen to work on this problem - without any isotope naughtiness at all. I guess what is most important from my perspective is the idea that stable isotopes, with some degree of clever manipulation, can be used as amino acid replication/synthesis modifiers. Now I have a lot of reading to do! (Did you notice that I didn't mention mRNA hardly at all?) -Treon Here are some medline references at the end for background and stuff. I should have copied more but they seemed long enough as it was. you can search medline anytime you want to follow your own fancies - (you probably know this address) just: telnet uwin.u.washington.edu #1 is an example of Tritiated compounds doing the same chemistry, but 3-9X slower (within mitochondria (but not reproduction) no less!) #2-4 are lame, but exploratory examples of mtDNA accumulating damage at extreme exponential rates and how this affects cellular energy and the respiration cycle. my info comes from a dimly remembered review article that was much clearer... P.S. BOO!! be my friend! write back!! (you are eligible for a medal for reading this far...) #1 Loss of tritium from a substrate is often used to estimate the rate of dehydrogenation. However, loss of 3H may be much slower than loss of H because of the tritium isotope effect. In order to assess the impact of the tritium isotope effect, loss of 3H from the C-5 position of proline during dehydrogenation by rat liver mitochondria and bacteroids from soybean (Glycine max [L.] Merrill) nodules was compared with appearance of 14C in products of [14C]proline dehydrogenation. Incubations were carried out in the presence of o-aminobenzaldehyde (added to trap the initial product, delta 1-pyroline-5-carboxylate). The fraction of total 14C products trapped by o-aminobenzaldehyde varied from 0.07 to 0.75 depending upon experimental conditions. With rat liver mitochondria, dehydrogenation of [14C]proline was between 3.27 and 9.25 times faster than dehydrogenation of 3H proline, depending upon assay conditions. Soybean nodule bacteriods dehydrogenated [14C]proline about 5 times faster than [3H]proline. We conclude the following: (i) the rate of proline dehydrogenation may be greatly underestimated by the tritium assay because of the tritium isotope effect, and (ii) the 14C assay may underestimate the rate of proline dehydrogenation if it is assumed that o-aminobenzaldehyde quantitatively traps delta 1-pyrroline-5-carboxylate under all conditions. The simplicity of the tritium assay makes it attractive for routine use. However, its use requires determination of the tritium isotope effect, under the specific conditions of the assay, in order to correct the results. The considerations discussed here have broad applicability to any dehydrogenase assay employing tritium loss. #2 The analysis of human skeletal muscle mitochondria revealed aprogressive decline in mitochondrial respiratory chain function with age. The activities affected to the greatest extent were those of complexes I and IV which were decreased by 59% and 47% respectively between the ages of 20-30 years and 60-90 years of age. Quantitation of the 5 kb 'common' deletion of mtDNA using PCR revealed a progressive accumulation with age, from approximately 1 in 100,000 at 21 years to 1 in 10,000 at 56 years and 1 in 5000 at 78 years of age. The low absolute levels of this mutation are unlikely to contribute significantly to the observed mitochondrial dysfunction. Previous theories of aging based on somatic mutation neglected mtDNA, which has a high propensity for mutational error. Knowledge of yeast mtDNA mutations and their functional effects, and of human mtDNA mutations identified in the mitochondrial cytopathies, provides for a concept of aging based on the cumulative effect of mutations affecting human mtDNA. An essential feature of this concept is heteroplasmy, representing mixtures of normal and mutant mtDNA at the cellular and mitochondrial level, resulting in a "tissue mosaic" of focal bioenergetic deficits. Direct evidence for the concept is provided by (i) focal loss of staining for mitochondrially encoded enzymes, such as cytochrome c oxidase, in tissues of aged individuals (humans and rats) and (ii) an age-related increase in deletional mutations in mtDNA demonstrable by application of the polymerase chain reaction to DNA templates from individuals of different ages. Some mutations in mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) causing a number of neuromuscular diseases are suggested to arisespontaneously during the life of an individual. To substantiate the extent and the rate of these somatic mutations, mtDNA specimens from post-mortem human heart muscles of subjects in differing age groups were hydrolyzed. 8-Hydroxy-deoxyguanosine (8-OH-dG), a hydroxyl-radical adduct of deoxyguanosine, in mtDNA, was quantitatively determined using a micro high-performance liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry system. In each specimen, the mtDNA with a 7.4 kilo base-pair deletion was quantified by the kinetic polymerase chain reaction method. In association with age, the 8-OH-dG content accumulated exponentially up to 1.5% with a correlative increase in the content of the deleted mtDNA up to 7%. Clear correlation between the 8-OH-dG content in mtDNA and the population of mtDNA with a deletion (r = 0.93, P < 0.01) gives insight into the mechanism for the generation of a large deletion. These results indicate thataccumulation of somatically acquired oxygen damage together with age-associated mutations in mtDNA which lead to bioenergetic deficiency and the heart muscle weakness are inevitable in human life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of the email extraction from the first letter. Here is an extraction from a second letter that I wrote to a friend. Anyway, Hello! Thanks for asking if you could pass the idea on first - I never bothered to get it notarized so I'll do that today so that you can pass it on to Peter say Thursday. It is a building thrill to have someone else interested and to hopefully add some explorations and accuracies. Makes me nervous too! That version I sent you was written about 4 hours after the original inspiration So, um, it'll read really dumb to someone who knows what they are talking about. I think it has been 6-8 weeks since I wrote that, and have learned all sorts of shoring-up and eroding-down influences to the central idea: And now... some inferences from the literature: Plus: * There are specific common deletion sites in mtDNA that result in large, unique amino acid sequences suitable as labels * the idea is obviously portable to other genetic and protein pharmacological things; RE aging, it also has direct application to other aging theories/aging markers notably the telomeric marker/tape leader theories and what I'd call the psuedocaloric restriction methionine displacer theory * A similar idea/set of ideas has never appeared in the abstracted literature/patent databses I've looked in * Rats forced to live out their lives on 30% D2O are normal (an incredible puzzle there I'd say) Minus: * people with progeria, a very unusual rapid aging syndrome do not have mtDNA problems at all (secret plus: they do have shortened telomeres proportional to the shortening seen in people of their apparent physical age!) * Cancer research suggests that that targeting is very difficult; then again, maybe I've lucked out and thought of a harmless-unless-cancerous mechanism. or even a cancer prophylactic of a different nature than antioxidants sort of like invisible chemotherapy. >> -distributed stable isotopes lie in transparent wait until cancer/other >> bioprocesses concentrate them and 1) retard them 2) signal them. >> Advantage: minimal/no toxicity excaept at active concentration/comnination >> sites (Andrew... the minuses are turning into positive wild speculation! This is good - but I started out wanting to write a balanced treatment for You and Peter) More Wild Speculation * currently existing gene therapies could add another degree of 'facility' by influencing the residence times and stabilities of introduced genes, as well as marking sites for secondary therapies. The whole idea of tagging, signalling, and modifying cellular stuff without active chemical groups just floats there... suggesting wild stuff like cellular early-early-early diagnoses dianoses based on excretion/assay of oddball Isotope-loaded amino acid sequences. The various forms of matching and concentration that I know about in cells suggest statistical 'control'(?) of how much of what accumulates where. Nucleic acid dynamics are so bizarre that there are many different sorts of active and inactive structures to tweak on... ...I guess I'm just really turned on by the idea of chemicals that in low concentrations mimic perfectly their normal isotope cousins, but at times of unusual concentration due to replication, or other cellular protein production can influence cellular processes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ End of text extraction from letter to Andrew Greenberg. Here are some notes, wrtten today, June 23, 1993 about the whole thing...Ideas not stated here may have been created at an earlier date than today, but are in some other paper form I don't have access to right now. A* Ok, so we've got a stable isotopes incorporated into nucleic acid sequences or other, even *non-protein* polymers concept going. I'm going to use the word stable isotopes generally, but under the right conditions sufficiently 'cool' radioactive isotopes might be useful in producing the same kind of isotope-effects I'm expecting stable isotopes to be adequate for. These stable isotopes, lighter or heavier, or more homogenous-in-percentage than as found in a typical situation are instrumental in: Causing rate of reaction changes Influencing thermal lability of proteins/polymers Creating clines and/or thresholds of reactivity/bonding intensity/membrane transport Changing the physical spacing/volume dynamics of proteins/polymers Causing absorption and emmisivity changes in response to light/radiation These are very general, but combining them we get: A0*: The facility of slowing/speeding up, stopping, forking, or breaking transcription, replication, or expression processes in relation to DNA and RNA, or other information containing polymers that are partially or completely composed of atypical stable isotopes. This includes the possibility of creating proteins/polymers of the same molecular mass as a typical protein/polymer, but with both atypical heavy and light isotopes combining to give the typical mass. and... The specific use of A* + A0* to affect the way in which mitochondrial DNA is involved in replication, or for that matter nuclear DNA/RNA, esp. telomeres. I note here also the idea of atypical isotope biomolecules as differing structural elements so that they hold up differently over time - independent of replication. Isotopes might be introduced as a specific actor in response to an acute condition or a specific interest in action. Alternatively, isotope loading could occur prior to an acute interest, perhaps as a baseline, or in the case of several paragraphs that follow, as a kind of prophylactic loading action that would later be brought to the point of activity by significant grouping of the isotopes. Specific uses of A0* to signal, label, or act upon DNA/RNA activities in a living organism that are of interest: A disease, cancer, or other bioactivity is associated with the transcription, recombination, expression, or concentration of amino acids, proteins or amino acid sequences. Could be a gene thing, or just a protein product. As a result of this process, Numerically variable, significant-to-action quantities of isotopes are matched and/or otherwise grouped together, either within new molecules, or just as a nonbonded percentage. A1*: This togetherness or grouping: 1)could cause a change in A* + A0* as therapy or create an intermediary to to #2: 2)could be noted as some sort of excretion product or other detectable/assayable concentration, and used as a label and/or signal as to the type or location of the disease/other bioactivity in progress. These might, or might not, contain an element of signal coding to them to reveal specifics about the process that caused the grouping. 3) could be used as a signal to an additional compound for binding or location information. In addition to the straightforward case, here is one of several plausabilities: weaker bonding by the Isopically different amino acids on one side of a paired sequence might allow a different chemical to have special reaction/recognition possibilities with the isotopically normal side of the paired sequence because of changes in bond strength or shape. A2*: In a nongrouped, nonactive situation, information could be noted, or accumulated as history in a DNA/RNA/protein product in vivo as a result of the isotope exchanges during the cellular process-history. A plausibility is the embedment of data or compressed data for the use of introduced, or induced, cellular processes. Because the coding involves isotope substitution and not active chemical groups, it should be essentially transparent to routine cellular chemistry. In addition to activities that read this extra coding, the historical path of cellular disease might be specifically backtracked, or mechanisms might be used to encode previous in vivo states in the isotopic coding area. A3* an example of isotopic substitution used in a viral therapy might be as follows: Let's write this part later huh? B* The use of A* mechanisms in essentially nonbiological, ex vivo applications: B1* Others have mentioned the use of amino acid sequences as masks and/or deposition surfaces or guides for making semiconductors and special micro-scale machines - mechanical, chemical, electric, or photofunctional. By creating amino acid sequences or other polymers with areas of isotopic substitution, all of, or areas upon these masks/templates/sites might have an additional range of facility in processing that involves temperature, bonding, or mass-sorting techniques like electrophoresis or centrifugal/acceleration effects that can be easily inferred from A* and even the loading mechanisms of A0*. Differences in spectral/charge properties as energized by light/radiation may be considered an additional area of facility also. B2* by creating a standard set of amino acid/polymer sequences with different areas of substitution, a kind of shape set is created. Example: standard sequence --> PCR for a plurality of identical seeds for next step (say 5 seeds for simplicity of example) -->amplification of standard sequence; seed one has special light/heavy aminos/mers on one end, seed two on the other end, seed three in the middle, seed 4 all heavy, light, whatever. In polymers of width, angle patterning of isotopes might be constructed. Fabrication can be facilitated by: Placing elements of this shape set together, most likely on a substrate, and then sorting/removing as necessary either the isotopically atypical portions or the other portions using the extra facility suggested by A* and some A0* concepts. B3*: Also, the possibility of using mass-sorting effects to, for example, spin certain patterns by the facility of mass distribution, or electrophoretically draw with/patternize the amino acids/other polymers and create templates/masks/deposition sites so that desired designs are created. B4*: Photo effects might allow for selective absorption and [ablation or fixation] at atypical isotopic sites or molecules. Photoeffects with emission-involving isotopic difference and feedbackto the photosource that causes special ablation or fixing may also be used to enhance patternmaking or fabrication of devices. B5: Building up effects like arborization might take place, followed by removal or deposition of other active chemicals/semiconductors/etc. by the A* facility. Ok, that's it for now. It is 11:43 PM on 6/23/93 - Treon Verdery >> B6: nanotech micromachines that make use of [matching/accumulation etc.] >> or structural [from erosion to shaping to spacing] concepts, or >> photofunctional, or information carrying through isotopes, isotope >> laden polymers, or isotope layers, patterns, or tracks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Patil/Chris - thanks for reading all of that. I'd love a response by email, but since the original text document is so large talking might be more convenient. If you like, call me at the University of Washington at (206) 685-7831, and I'll call you back so it's on my dime. What do you think? -Treon From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 12 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cats.ucsc.edu!beckman From: beckman@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas J Beckman) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: DNA base pairs/turn and aging? Summary: DNA base pairs/turn and ageing? Keywords: DNA ageing Message-ID: <2970ri$89@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Date: 9 Oct 93 18:45:06 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu I've heard that the number of base pairs per turn of human DNA decreases with ageing. I'm looking for references about this. Thanks for any information. -- Tom Beckman beckman@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 12 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bradley.bradley.edu!cs1.bradley.edu!not-for-mail From: hexmoon@cs1.bradley.edu (Brett Cloud) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: A-T, G-C Keywords: codons, amino acids Message-ID: <29ftiv$fme@cs1.bradley.edu> Date: 13 Oct 93 03:44:31 GMT Organization: Bradley University Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs1.bradley.edu I am trying to remember what AAA,AAC,...,TTT map out to what meaning in amino acid language. Thanks for any help. Brett From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Oct 13 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bradley.bradley.edu!cs1.bradley.edu!not-for-mail From: hexmoon@cs1.bradley.edu (Brett Cloud) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: A-T, G-C Keywords: codons, amino acids Message-ID: <29ftiv$fme@cs1.bradley.edu> Date: 13 Oct 93 03:44:31 GMT Organization: Bradley University Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs1.bradley.edu I am trying to remember what AAA,AAC,...,TTT map out to what meaning in amino acid language. Thanks for any help. Brett From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 14 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: MEMBP@thcme.indstate.edu ("MARY B. PARAMANATHAN" ) Newsgroups: bionet.immunology,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.neuroscience Subject: Request antibodies against opioid receptors in mice Message-ID: <2BB79397595@thcme.indstate.edu> Date: 15 Oct 93 21:07:44 GMT Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 11 Xref: biosci bionet.immunology:631 bionet.molbio.ageing:514 bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:8208 bionet.neuroscience:1824 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Hi, I am a graduate student at Terre Haute center for Medical education and I am working on the effects of post natal handling on the immune responsiveness in mice. I am planning to see the distribution of opioid receptors in various tissues of the immune and nervous system in these handled animals. I require monoclonal antibodies for opioid receptors for immunocytochemistry studies.I request information regarding the availablilty of such antibodies. I have no direct contact with the news groups, so please send information to my E mail address MEMBP@thcme.indstate.edu thanks. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 15 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cats.ucsc.edu!beckman From: beckman@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas J Beckman) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: DNA base pairs/turn and aging? Summary: DNA base pairs/turn and ageing? Keywords: DNA ageing Message-ID: <2970ri$89@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Date: 9 Oct 93 18:45:06 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu I've heard that the number of base pairs per turn of human DNA decreases with ageing. I'm looking for references about this. Thanks for any information. -- Tom Beckman beckman@cats.ucsc.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 16 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!lhc!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: music@PARCOM.ERNET.IN (Rajeev Upadhye) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Message-ID: <9310131311.AA02570@parcom> Date: 13 Oct 93 16:18:38 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 14 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:518 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Subj: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: music <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@MITVMA.MIT.EDU:music@PARCOM.ERNET.IN> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Organisation: X-To: gerinet@ubvm.bitnet I would like to subscribe to this discussion group. _________________________________________________________________________ Fundamentals of Research Methodology | Centre for Development of | Advanced Computing "Take roots of some tree | Pune University Campus Crush them with some thing | Ganesh Khind, Pune Then give it to someone | Maharashtra, INDIA 411 007 SOMETHING will definitely happen!!!" | Email: music@parcom.ernet.in | Fax : 91 212 337551 ------ PANCHA TANTRA | Phone: 91 212 332461 (A Sanskrit Book of Fairy Tales) | _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 16 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!lhc!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: discussion Message-ID: <01H42H0WR60Y8ZEUVI@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 13 Oct 93 19:18:51 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 16 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:517 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM<@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"gerinet@ubvm.bitnet" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: gerinet@ubvm.bitnet Ganesh Khind (I don't know how to address you) I've been on this list for awhile and have heard nothing until I saw your plea for converstaion. My name id George Graham and I teach nursing students. Plus I do dentistry for the elderly in theior homes or in their nursing establishment. My prayers go out ty the families of the people who died in the natural disaster last week in your country. If you want to converse you can use this list since noone else seems to be using it or you can e-mail me direct at ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 16 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!lhc!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: VBSELBY@UALR.EDU (RABBLE ROUSER) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: welcome Message-ID: <931013155255.25215184@ualr.edu> Date: 13 Oct 93 20:52:55 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 15 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:516 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: VBSELBY <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:VBSELBY@UALR.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu > >I would like to subscribe to this discussion group. > The net has been quiet for a long time now. Boyd bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ?? ?? ?? OLD AGE AND TREACHERY WILL OVERCOME YOUTH AND SKILL ?? ?? When all is said and done... ?? ?? More is said than done!!!! ?? ?? ?? ?? vbselby@ualr.edu ?? ?? vbselby@ualr.bitnet ?? sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!news.cs.umb.edu!hsdndev!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: VBSELBY@UALR.EDU (RABBLE ROUSER) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: welcome Message-ID: <931013155255.25215184@ualr.edu> Date: 13 Oct 93 20:52:55 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 15 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:519 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: VBSELBY <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:VBSELBY@UALR.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu > >I would like to subscribe to this discussion group. > The net has been quiet for a long time now. Boyd bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ?? ?? ?? OLD AGE AND TREACHERY WILL OVERCOME YOUTH AND SKILL ?? ?? When all is said and done... ?? ?? More is said than done!!!! ?? ?? ?? ?? vbselby@ualr.edu ?? ?? vbselby@ualr.bitnet ?? sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: edemt@TTACS.TTU.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Parkinson's readings Message-ID: <01H43GHKUY5E8Y661T@ttacs.ttu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 93 16:12:29 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 21 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:522 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: edemt <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:edemt@TTACS1.TTU.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: gerinet@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu Is there anyone on the list who could cite some sources for readings on Parkinson's...something written for a *layman* to understand and something besides the average pamphlet handout (which, of course, tells little above the very basic)? Sometimes I come across "updates" into the study of it, but I've seen very little in the way of "whats" and "whys"--that I can understand (and *I* have to understand them before I can even begin to explain it to my dad--diagnosed with it over two years ago). Certain changes would not have upset me so, if I'd just had a little forewarning they would or might appear... things the readings I've seen so far haven't given a clue to. Any help would be very much appreciated. My Internet address is below. Thanks. Edie T. +:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::+ Edith (Edie) Temple :: Computer Doc. Editor :: Internet: edemt@ttacs.ttu.edu Texas Tech University :: Bitnet: EDEMT@TTACS.BITNET Lubbock, Texas :: +:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 05:12:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 17 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:525 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Dear George, Ganesh Khind and Edie I am a new subscriber from a School of Nursing in Australia. I'd be interested to hear about research that people are doing. Currently I am involved in resear ch in the following: communication between caregivers and their elderly family members skin tears in the elderly who reside in nursing homes communication between alzheimers patients and the nurses who care for them in nu rsing homes pain in the elderly Anybody interested in these areas?? Regards Helen From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Parkinson's readings Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 05:02:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 7 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:524 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Dear Edie T I am a new subscriber to gerinet and I don't personally have anything on Parkins ons. Michael Dunne a colleague in my School is doing some work with Parkinsons. He may be a useful contact. His Email is m.dunne@qut.edu.au Regards Helen Edwards From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET (Amy Abare) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H444Q22CZ68Y8GSI@SMCVAX.SMCVT.EDU> Date: 15 Oct 93 00:49:40 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 9 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:523 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: ABARE <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.BITNET" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been wondering the same thing myself. I've been on the list for about two months and have received no mail. I joined the list out of pure interest. I am a part-time home care provider, but am considering entering the geriatric field. I was hoping to get tons of helpfull information, but alas, nothing until now. At the moment, I have to cut this short but will be doing more E-mail tomorrow, so until then................ Abare@smcvax.smcvt.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!news.cs.umb.edu!hsdndev!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: discussion Message-ID: <01H42H0WR60Y8ZEUVI@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 13 Oct 93 19:18:51 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 16 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:520 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM<@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"gerinet@ubvm.bitnet" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: gerinet@ubvm.bitnet Ganesh Khind (I don't know how to address you) I've been on this list for awhile and have heard nothing until I saw your plea for converstaion. My name id George Graham and I teach nursing students. Plus I do dentistry for the elderly in theior homes or in their nursing establishment. My prayers go out ty the families of the people who died in the natural disaster last week in your country. If you want to converse you can use this list since noone else seems to be using it or you can e-mail me direct at ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 17 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!news.cs.umb.edu!hsdndev!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: music@PARCOM.ERNET.IN (Rajeev Upadhye) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Message-ID: <9310131311.AA02570@parcom> Date: 13 Oct 93 16:18:38 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 14 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:521 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Subj: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: music <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@MITVMA.MIT.EDU:music@PARCOM.ERNET.IN> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Organisation: X-To: gerinet@ubvm.bitnet I would like to subscribe to this discussion group. _________________________________________________________________________ Fundamentals of Research Methodology | Centre for Development of | Advanced Computing "Take roots of some tree | Pune University Campus Crush them with some thing | Ganesh Khind, Pune Then give it to someone | Maharashtra, INDIA 411 007 SOMETHING will definitely happen!!!" | Email: music@parcom.ernet.in | Fax : 91 212 337551 ------ PANCHA TANTRA | Phone: 91 212 332461 (A Sanskrit Book of Fairy Tales) | _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H44R5BH4UW8ZEOJF@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 15 Oct 93 10:27:31 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 8 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:526 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Helen, I am very interested in the communication between family and acre caregiver. I deal with that on a daily basis. george g p ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: FCM001@UKANVM.BITNET (Mary Hursey) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 13:20:06 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 3 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:527 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: FCM001 <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:FCM001@UKANVM.BITNET> In-reply-to: Message of Fri,15 Oct 1993 06:27:31 -0400 from To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Helen and George regarding communication with elderly and caregivers - I have my mother living with me who been diagnosed with Alzhiemers (sp) if you have an y questions you might want to ask I'll be happy to answer the best I can. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H45UUH5Z3Y8ZEUX5@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 16 Oct 93 05:27:57 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 25 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:536 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Louella, Sory for my lack of clarity. I have two assistants. My main one was on vacation and my backup went with me to the patients house. She had several loose teeth and I was afraid of aspiration so I wrote a Rx for an antibiotic and made an appointment to come back in a few days. In the meantime, the main assistant came home. So the next time I saw the patient, the second assistant was with me. I hadn't paid attention and neither had the ladies husband. But the patient o looked up and said .... "You're not the same one " Unfortunately in most nursing homes they are treated as if they didn't understand anything. Don't be cruel ... assume they do ... This is what I bring up at continuing education classes. that I do for my nursing homes. George G ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET (INDIE) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 16 Oct 93 03:27:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 14 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:535 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Original_To: BITNET%"GERINET@UBVM.BITNET" Original_cc: ICOOPER Yes--I am also interested in these topic areas. I am an RN who is currently working in the longterm setting. I am pursuing a BS in Community & Human Services with concentrations in Counseling and Psycho-physiology. I have a keen interest in chronic pain and pain in many forms ie physical, emotional & psychosocial. I also lost my stepfather on October 2nd. He was 80 years old and suffered alzheimers type dementia however just before he died, he was seen by a neurologist who mentioned Credsfeld Jacobs disease (spelling may be wrong). I am not familiar with this disease however his symptoms I now understand were very similar to ones associated with this disease. His symptoms progressed very fast--over 2-3 years. I tend to analyze things along the lines of Erikson's developmental theory & Family systems theorists however, I recognize the value of other theorists as well. Indie From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET (Louella De Mers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 20:01:53 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 19 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:534 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> In-reply-to: Message of Fri,15 Oct 1993 10:53:31 -0400 from To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT George Spelling doesn't count!! I, too, believe people with AD can be more aware that is generally recognized. I helped to care for a wonderful woman who got a bit stubborn on occasion. She seemed to be out of touch with reality except for food. And the best way to elicit her cooperation was to offer her chocolate. She would instantly open her mouth, get the chocolate piece, and then cooperate fully. Would you explain a bit more about your patient being able "to tell the difference between my assistants when her husband and I couldn't?" I not sure I understand. Thanks Louella demers@sjsuvm1 demers@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: vinta@UNR.EDU (Vinta Dobrenen) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Suggestions Message-ID: <40868.vinta@equinox.unr.edu> Date: 15 Oct 93 19:20:58 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: vinta@unr.edu Lines: 42 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:533 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: vinta <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:vinta@UNR.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Nupop-Charset: English X-To: GERINET@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu In Message Fri, 15 Oct 1993 09:54:46 -0500, Amy Abare writes: >I am considering entering the Geriatric field on some level and am wondering >if people could offer information about their specific fields, specialties, >interests, or any kind of advise. Currently I am doing home health care on >a part-time basis through a nursing agency, but I really want to make a >move into a full-time career. I am weighing the options of entering the >field either through nursing or social work. Any feedback would be >greatly appreciated! Thanks! > >Abare@smcvax.smcvt.edu Amy, I was glad to see your messages and also others. I have been on this listserve for a little while, but have not seen much action until now. I am a Medical, and also Geriatric, Librarian for the Nevada Geriatric Education Center (NGEC) at the University of Nevada in Reno, Nevada. My specialties are geriatric information sources, computer literature searching, and database development. I provide information throughout Nevada mostly to health professionals on any issue in the field of aging. I also have developed a speakers/experts database, an Audio-Visual Catalog, a Directory (and database) of Sources for Seniors, and I am working on a newsletter if I ever get it past all the people who approve it and keep wanting to change it. All of this is for the state of Nevada only. But I am a part of several Gerontology/Geriatric interest groups, one connected with other Geriatric Education Centers throughout the United States, and one connected with the Medical Librarians Association, and so there is slowly some connecting going on between people in this field, which is exciting. In answer to your inquiry about education, this field is interdisciplinary and you generally get a degree in some other field like social work, psychology, nursing, medicine, etc., and then add this to it as a minor or get a certificate. It will help in obtaining a job if you have this education and others don't. Let me know if there is anything else that I can help with. Vinta Dobrenen, M.L.S. vinta@unr.edu (702) 784-1805 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: TKELLY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Tim Kelly) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Suggestions Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 16:33:42 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 12 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:532 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: TKELLY <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:TKELLY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> In-reply-to: Message of Fri, 15 Oct 1993 09:54:46 -0500 from To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Amy: I am a geriatric social worker so my bias would be for the social work professi on. I have worked in mental health centers with elderly clients, run day progra ms for mentally ill older adults, and worked as a social worker in a geriatric hospital. I love the field. If you want more info please e-mail me. Thanks! Tim Tim Kelly University of Georgia School of Social Work (706) 542-5441 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: murlakis@POST.ITS.MCW.EDU (Mary Anne Urlakis) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: caregivers & Alzheimer's patients Message-ID: Date: 15 Oct 93 15:17:22 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Mary Anne Urlakis Lines: 14 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:531 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: murlakis <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:murlakis@POST.ITS.MCW.EDU> In-reply-to: (null) To: Marshall University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group X-cc: Multiple recipients of list GERINET Helen & George, I too have a mother with Alzheimer's and would be more than willing to share my experiences. I am also an active member of the Alzheimer's Suport Group, through the medical center I am employed by. If you are interested I may be able to find others to share experieces with you. Mary Anne Urlakis Program Coordinator-Health Information Technoloogy Center Health Policy Institute Medical College of Wisconsin Phone: (414) 778-4362 FAX: (414)257-8464 NTERNET: murlakis@post.its.mcw.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET (INDIE) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: residents & caregivers Message-ID: Date: 17 Oct 93 00:07:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 11 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:538 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Original_To: BITNET%"gerinet@ubvm" Original_cc: ICOOPER My husband's grandfather was hospitalized and then sent to a nursing home following a medication error that left him unresponsive several years ago. Family was faithful to visit at least 5-7 days a week during the 3-4 months he was there. We took him out for rides around the area he grew up in and farmed many years. He would just sit staring straight ahead on those rides. He was fortunately to come out of it and he came home to live for 2 years before he died. One day, he said to us "You don't know what it meant to have you take me out for all of those rides. I couldn't thank you then but I can now." This experience I share with my students to show them that even though someone may not react to your presence, it doesn't mean they are not aware of it. I hope they realize the importance of this. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU (J. Philip Miller) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: What is Gerinet Message-ID: <9310161948.AA05087@wubios.wustl.edu> Date: 16 Oct 93 19:48:17 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 21 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:537 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: phil <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU> To: Marshall University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Length: 990 X-To: Gerinet List Recently several subscribers have asked about the purpose of the Gerninet list. The official purpose is stated as: * This is a mailing list of those interested in geriatric * health care. It is intended to have multidisciplinary * representation (e.g. physicians, nurses, social workers, * physical therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists, * speech therapists, lawyers, nursing home administrators, etc.) of * individuals concerned about the well-being of our elderly. but the reality is that the list can be anything that its subscribers want it to be! As owner of the list, if there does not seem to be any interest in the list, then I will disband it. Thus I suggest that if you have questions or information generally about geriatric health care, then please post them! -phil -- J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110 phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - (314) 362-3617 [362-2693(FAX)] From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET (Amy Abare) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Suggestions Message-ID: <01H44XYDE5MG8Y8LK6@SMCVAX.SMCVT.EDU> Date: 15 Oct 93 14:54:46 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 9 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:528 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: ABARE <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"gerinet@ubvm.bitnet" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: gerinet@ubvm.bitnet I am considering entering the Geriatric field on some level and am wondering if people could offer information about their specific fields, specialties, interests, or any kind of advise. Currently I am doing home health care on a part-time basis through a nursing agency, but I really want to make a move into a full-time career. I am weighing the options of entering the field either through nursing or social work. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Abare@smcvax.smcvt.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: SUPERVISOR@SWEEP.FO.UKANS.EDU (Phil Endacott) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Gerinet Archives. . . Message-ID: <30500F1B2C@sweep.fo.ukans.edu> Date: 15 Oct 93 13:50:01 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Organization: UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS Lines: 250 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:529 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: SUPERVISOR <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:SUPERVISOR@SWEEP.FO.UKANS.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5). X-pmrqc: 1 Subscribers are reminded that GERINET is archived in NOTEBOOKs and are searchable for topics of interest. To date, 225 messages have been posted to GERINET. The following list points out the importance of including a proper SUBJECT: line in both posts and replys to the List--its really hard to tell the content of a message without it!! Individual items can be retrieved for review. If you are not familiar with the retrieval process, send me private mail and I will try and help. . . . Phil--- > s * in GERINET --> Database GERINET, 225 hits. > index #.5 date.8 sender.30 subject.35 # DATE SENDER SUBJECT - ---- ------ ------- 1 91/12/04 TOSDRST@GE1VM.SCHDY.GE.COM availability of 'humanly priced h+ 2 92/01/25 DFOSTER@UA1VM.UA.EDU 3 92/01/28 vbselby@UALR.EDU GERINET 4 92/01/28 FMBRUCE@ECUVM1.BITNET GERINET 5 92/01/28 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: GERINET 6 92/01/29 MICHAEL@UNTVAX.BITNET Re: GERINET 7 92/01/29 OLSON@UMKCVAX1.BITNET Re: GERINET 8 92/01/29 FMBRUCE@ECUVM1.BITNET Re: GERINET 9 92/01/29 BRICKEYJ@VTVM1.BITNET Re: GERINET 10 92/01/29 FMDAUGHE@ECUVM1.BITNET Re: GERINET 11 92/01/29 KB27508@UAFSYSB.BITNET Re: GERINET 12 92/01/29 MICHAEL@UNTVAX.BITNET Re: GERINET 13 92/01/30 FMBRUCE@ECUVM1.BITNET Re: GERINET 14 92/01/30 BREWERJ@UNCG.BITNET Re: GERINET 15 92/01/30 MICHAEL@UNTVAX.BITNET Re: GERINET 16 92/02/01 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Feedback(Relief) 17 92/02/01 FRIED@UCONNVM.BITNET Re: Feedback(Relief) 18 92/02/01 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Caregiver, Elders and Living Wills 19 92/02/02 MICHAEL@UNTVAX.BITNET Re: Feedback(Relief) 20 92/02/03 BREWERJ@UNCG.BITNET DNR 21 92/02/04 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: GERINET 22 92/02/06 BREWERJ@UNCG.BITNET Re: Caregiver, Elders and Living + 23 92/02/06 BREWERJ@UNCG.BITNET Re: Caregiver, Elders and Living + 24 92/02/10 FMBRUCE@ECUVM1.BITNET Re: Feedback(Relief) 25 92/02/10 SASMTS@MVS.SAS.COM Suggestions for Stroke Victim 26 92/02/10 FRIED@UCONNVM.BITNET Re: Suggestions for Stroke Victim 27 92/02/10 FRIED@UCONNVM.BITNET Re: Suggestions for Stroke Victim 28 92/02/11 CEBERLE@UNMCVM.BITNET pneumonia 29 92/02/12 sawalker@UALR.EDU gerinet 30 92/02/12 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Suggestions for Stroke Victim 31 92/02/12 FRIED@UCONNVM.BITNET RE: Suggestions for Stroke Victim 32 92/02/12 U55336@UICVM.BITNET Response To Mary Serianni 33 92/02/13 SASMTS@MVS.SAS.COM Thanks! 34 92/02/14 GA0708@SIUCVMB.BITNET Information about group 35 92/02/15 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Caregivers, Elder Abuse and Living 36 92/02/15 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Elder Abuse 37 92/02/21 OTCM894@IBMH1.ORL.MMC.COM 38 92/02/23 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Cognizance,Alziemers,and questions 39 92/02/23 SUPERVISOR@SWEEP.FO.UKANS.EDU Re: Cognizance,Alziemers,and ques+ 40 92/03/01 DRSTALL@UBVMS.BITNET Re: Thanks! 41 92/03/01 DRSTALL@UBVMS.BITNET Rex's dad 42 92/03/04 FMBRUCE@ECUVM1.BITNET Re: GERINET 43 92/03/05 LLEEPER@NMSUVM1.BITNET COMMUNICATION & AGEING 44 92/03/07 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Communication,Aging, & Other thin+ 45 92/03/07 LLEEPER@NMSUVM1.BITNET Re: Communication,Aging, & Other + 46 92/03/11 sawalker@UALR.EDU 47 92/03/12 JMCDO00@UKCC.UKY.EDU 48 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET test 49 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET test 50 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET :( 51 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET re-intro 52 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET old-postn 53 92/03/07 DFOSTER@UA1VM Communication,Aging, & Other thin+ 54 92/03/14 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET re-intro 55 92/03/15 LISTMGR@UBVM.BITNET List owner needed for this list 56 92/03/18 JCOWARD@UVVM.UVIC.CA 57 92/03/18 vbselby@UALR.EDU 58 92/03/21 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET 59 92/03/21 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re-intro 60 92/03/21 dorisann@TENET.EDU Re: Re-intro 61 92/03/21 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Notebook Filelist 62 92/03/21 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Thanks 63 92/03/22 LLEEPER@NMSUVM1.BITNET Re: Re-intro 64 92/03/23 pcallan@UMSA.UMD.EDU Re: Re-intro 65 92/03/24 kemnitz@PRIMATE.WISC.EDU membership 66 92/03/24 KVRAO@TRAPPER.BITNET Forwarded mail 67 92/03/25 LISTMGR@UBVM.BITNET New list owner found 68 92/03/28 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET 69 92/04/03 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Granny Dumping 70 92/04/03 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Murder-Suicide-The Burden of Alzh+ 71 92/04/05 LLEEPER@NMSUVM1.BITNET Re: Murder-Suicide-The Burden of + 72 92/04/07 vbselby@UALR.EDU testing 73 92/04/07 KMEVER01@UKCC.UKY.EDU Re: testing 74 92/04/07 FISHER_DAL@CTSTATEU.BITNET test 75 92/04/07 MICHAEL@UNTVAX.BITNET Re: test 76 92/04/08 HNF@NIHCU.BITNET Re: test 77 92/04/21 lpowell@ATL.CALSTATE.EDU Seniors Using Computers 78 92/04/21 lpowell@ATL.CALSTATE.EDU Computer Benefits 79 92/04/21 dorisann@TENET.EDU Re: Computer Benefits 80 92/04/21 HNF@NIHCU.BITNET Re: Seniors Using Computers 81 92/04/22 FRIED@UCONNVM.BITNET Re: Computer Benefits 82 92/04/23 OLSON@UMKCVAX1.BITNET Re: Seniors Using Computers 83 92/04/24 STELLAFU@USCVM.BITNET Re: Seniors Using Computers 84 92/04/21 SISC92@ITESO.BITNET 3th Week of Computing Systems Eng+ 85 92/04/30 JACOBSVJ@VUCTRVAX.BITNET Re: 3th Week of Computing Systems+ 86 92/05/11 BENEDITA@BRUFPB2.BITNET 87 92/07/11 MEDICUR1@GREARN.BITNET 88 92/08/07 HAMIL@BRFUEL.BITNET Traineeship in Physiotheraphy 89 92/08/20 ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET 90 92/08/20 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Stories needed 91 92/08/21 HCLADM04@UCONNVM.BITNET Staff motivation 92 92/08/26 ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET AJN MED/SURG GERIATRIC CONVENTION 93 92/09/05 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET 94 92/09/08 ICSLG@ASUACAD.BITNET No Subject 95 92/09/09 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re: No Subject 96 92/09/09 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Help 97 92/09/12 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Repeat of Posting 98 92/09/22 JCOWARD@UVVM.UVIC.CA REGISTER NOW FOR ITCH'92 99 92/09/28 gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR Apologies re: InterMeta course 100 92/10/06 MCELWRE@UWEC.BITNET NATURAL ANTI-cancer Remedies 101 92/10/08 HSSDEAN@OUACCVMB.BITNET 102 92/10/10 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET 103 92/10/12 JAJONE02@UKCC.UKY.EDU Re: NATURAL ANTI-cancer Remedies 104 92/11/22 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Hello 105 92/11/22 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Hello 106 92/11/23 C576814@MIZZOU1.BITNET Re: Hello 107 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Hello 108 92/11/23 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Hello 109 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 110 92/11/23 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 111 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 112 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? cont. 113 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 114 92/11/23 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 115 92/11/23 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 116 92/11/23 dorisann@TENET.EDU Re: Hello 117 92/11/23 DICKG@TEMPLEVM.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 118 92/11/23 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re: Hello 119 92/11/24 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 120 92/11/24 HCLADM04@UCONNVM.BITNET Re: Hello 121 92/11/24 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Hello 122 92/11/24 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Hello 123 92/11/24 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Hello 124 92/11/28 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Minority, Senior? 125 92/12/03 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Hello 126 92/12/02 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: Hello 127 92/12/02 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Are you there?? 128 92/12/03 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Hello 129 92/12/03 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Are you there?? 130 92/12/03 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Are you there?? 131 92/12/04 OLSON@UMKCVAX1.BITNET Re: Hello 132 92/12/05 HNF@NIHCU.BITNET Health services and retired worke+ 133 92/12/05 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Health services and retired w+ 134 92/12/05 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET :-) 135 92/12/05 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re: Hello 136 92/12/05 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re: Are you there?? 137 92/12/08 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: :-) 138 92/12/08 SSW1.POSTMSTR@TS3.TEALE.CA.GOV Mail Delivery Status 139 92/12/08 DC.OPSD60@TS3.TEALE.CA.GOV Mail Delivery Status 140 92/12/08 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Health services and retired w+ 141 92/12/09 HNF@NIHCU.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 142 92/12/09 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 143 92/12/09 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Health services and retired w+ 144 92/12/10 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 145 92/12/15 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Health services and retired w+ 146 92/12/16 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 147 92/12/18 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 148 92/12/18 SUPERVISOR@SWEEP.FO.UKANS.EDU RE: Health services and retired w+ 149 92/12/19 DICKG@TEMPLEVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 150 92/12/19 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 151 92/12/19 DICKG@TEMPLEVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 152 92/12/19 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 153 92/12/22 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 154 92/12/22 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 155 92/12/22 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 156 92/12/22 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 157 92/12/22 DICKG@TEMPLEVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 158 92/12/18 WKJ%NIHCU.BITNET@SCI.CCNY.CUNY+Dr. Glaser 159 92/12/31 ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET decubitus care 160 93/01/03 KB27508@UAFSYSB.BITNET Re: decubitus care 161 93/01/06 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Health services and retired w+ 162 93/01/06 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET RE: Health services and retired w+ 163 93/01/06 C576814@MIZZOU1.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 164 93/01/06 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 165 93/01/06 DEMERS@SJSUVM1.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 166 93/01/07 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 167 93/01/07 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 168 93/01/08 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: RE: Health services and retir+ 169 93/01/09 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET 170 93/01/12 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET 171 93/01/21 Linda_M_SAHIN@UMAIL.UMD.EDU 172 93/01/22 Linda_M_SAHIN@UMAIL.UMD.EDU subscribe 173 93/02/02 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET 174 93/02/02 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET 175 93/02/08 LWROTEN@RN1.NURSING.ARIZONA.ED+reply 176 93/02/08 kraitch@ARGON.BERKELEY.EDU Info request 177 93/02/13 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Info request 178 93/02/13 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: reply 179 93/02/15 FCM001@UKANVM.BITNET Re: Info request 180 93/02/15 FCM001@UKANVM.BITNET Re: reply 181 93/02/15 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Info request 182 93/03/07 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: Info request 183 93/03/07 eprince@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.+Re: Info request 184 93/03/07 DFOSTER@UA1VM.BITNET Re: Info request 185 93/03/07 GMP@PSUVM.BITNET Re: Info request 186 93/03/07 BISCHOFF@UHUNIX.BITNET Re: Info request 187 93/03/09 vbselby@UALR.EDU RE: Info request 188 93/03/13 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET RE: Info request 189 93/03/27 KIRSHENBLATT@NYUACF.BITNET From Womb to Tomb in Film and Vid+ 190 93/04/02 shirlee@U.WASHINGTON.EDU Women's Health 191 93/04/10 astull@U.WASHINGTON.EDU Agenet Database? 192 93/04/28 abcnews@CLASS.ORG ABC News Request 193 93/05/11 MAJACOBS@NDSUVM1.BITNET Re: reply 194 93/06/07 leone@OHSU.EDU Childhood immunization list 195 93/06/10 georgeb@CSN.ORG Fall Prevention Training 196 93/06/22 jwhitesi@ACAD.BRYANT.EDU Budget Cuts in Rhode Island (fwd) 197 93/06/28 gdfb@TROI.CC.ROCHESTER.EDU Medical/HealthCare Hypermedia Exh+ 198 93/06/30 samajane@ATHENA.MIT.EDU 199 93/07/06 JSMIT@UKANVM.BITNET 200 93/07/07 mmg@CAMIS.STANFORD.EDU 201 93/07/07 kristoff@NET.BIO.NET Re: 202 93/07/12 georgeb@CSN.ORG Reimbursement for Fall Prevention+ 203 93/07/15 HECKERSL@TEMPLEVM.BITNET subscription 204 93/07/19 mwitten@HERMES.CHPC.UTEXAS.EDU COMPUTATIONAL HEALTH (long) 205 93/08/23 netad@UDS01.UNIX.ST.IT The Net ADvertiser 206 93/08/25 WMILHEIM@PSUGV.PSU.EDU Internet Survey 207 93/08/27 vinta@UNR.EDU Re: Internet Survey 208 93/09/14 mwitten@HERMES.CHPC.UTEXAS.EDU CONGRESS: COMPUTATIONAL MEDICINE + 209 93/09/14 KUCHTA@TCUCVMS.BITNET Upcoming Gerontological Symposium 210 93/09/15 GDEKKER@MED.RUU.NL oproep kontakt en informatie 211 93/09/16 BROW7242@SNYPLAVA.BITNET 212 93/09/17 ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET 213 93/09/23 FWR10@PHOENIX.CAMBRIDGE.AC.UK Info resources 214 93/09/23 gerritf@HACKTIC.NL Re: Info resources 215 93/09/23 mmg@CAMIS.STANFORD.EDU Re: Info resources 216 93/09/29 goes@CHIMERA.SPH.UMN.EDU Announcing HEALTHMGMT 217 93/10/13 music@PARCOM.ERNET.IN 218 93/10/13 VBSELBY@UALR.EDU welcome 219 93/10/13 GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US discussion 220 93/10/14 edemt@TTACS.TTU.EDU Parkinson's readings 221 93/10/14 ABARE@SMCVAX.BITNET Re: discussion 222 93/10/15 EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU Re: Parkinson's readings 223 93/10/15 EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU Re: discussion 224 93/10/15 GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US Re: discussion 225 93/10/15 FCM001@UKANVM.BITNET Re: discussion -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-PHIL ENDACOTT (PE38)=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |*| Facilities Operations | |*| |*| Lawrence, Kansas 66045 | |*| |*| FAX: 913-864-4707 | |*| |*| WORK:913-864-3204 | Co-Owner: TQM-L, LDBASE-L, JANITORS |*| =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=THE UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 18 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H450E5RNBI8ZF378@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 15 Oct 93 14:53:31 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 18 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:530 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu =============================================== Mary, I treat a lot of Alzheimer's. And would love to discuss your dealings. The one thing that striked me more than anuything is the fact taht they are more aware than we thnink. (oops) I had one peatient that I see in her home who could tell the diffrernce between my assistants when her husband and I couldm't. Please excuse my typing. I'm not very good at it and this program doesn't allow for correcting it. George G ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!RBSE.Mountain.Net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H48J40DQ1K8ZEV0E@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 18 Oct 93 03:22:24 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 18 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:544 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Helen, et al ... I think that most of my time with patients is just talking. In some cases I think that I'm the closest thing they have to a family. I look at pictures, talk about grandkids etc most of the time. I had one emphysema patient who called me one Saturday that he had an emergency. I drove to his home just to find out that his kids came in for his anniversatry and he wanted them to meet me. I have forgeooten how many VCR movies I have sat through just keeping a patient company. Talk is the best BEST medicine. George G ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!RBSE.Mountain.Net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 93 00:06:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 7 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:541 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Dear George, Indie, Louella, Mary Hi! I agree with all the comments made. My greatest passion and research interest at present is that it is the talk that we have with older people, especially ADs, that has the greatest impact on their health and well-being. Amy comments???? Helen From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!RBSE.Mountain.Net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: Date: 17 Oct 93 23:36:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 3 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:540 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Amy, I am a nurse and therefore biased also. If I was entering aged care I woul d consider long term care units - we have to improve care there. This is an Aus tralian perspective so I hope it is helpful. Helen From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!RBSE.Mountain.Net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU (J. Philip Miller) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <9310180042.AA16926@wubios.wustl.edu> Date: 18 Oct 93 00:42:45 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 28 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:543 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: phil <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU> In-reply-to: <9310180009.AA16201@wubios> from "qut.edu.au" at Oct 18,93 10:06:00 am To: Marshall University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Length: 959 X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu writes: > > Dear George, Indie, Louella, Mary > Hi! I agree with all the comments made. My greatest > passion and research interest at present is that it is the > talk that we have with older people, especially ADs, that > has the greatest impact on their health and well-being. > Amy comments???? At the later stage of AD where little activity other than listening is possible, undoubtedly you are correct. At less sever stages of the disease, then you are probably correct if you include in your "talk" our exortations to other usefule behavior, e.g. to "get up out of bed and interact with others on the unit." What type of "talk" are you thinking about? -phil > Helen > -- J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110 phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - (314) 362-3617 [362-2693(FAX)] From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!RBSE.Mountain.Net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Parkinson's readings Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 93 00:19:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 7 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:542 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Edie I sent you a message the other day but I'm not sure you got it - my system was playing up. I have a colleague at my university who is interested and researching PD. You can reach him on this e-mail m.dunne.@qut.edu.au Hope this is useful Helen Edwards From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: caron001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU (Wayne A. Caron) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: Talking with AD patients Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 93 03:52:18 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 30 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:545 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: caron001 <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:caron001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu I am very happy to see some activity on this list. I am a family therapist on the clinical faculty of the geriatrics family practice program. My general focus has been on caregiving and chronic illness with a specific focus on Alzheimer's disease. Whereas up until about two years ago I worked primarily with caregivers and other family members, I was asked by our local Alzheimer's Association chapter to pilot a support group for AD patients. They were unsure how feasible such a group would be. I was also,but decided to give it a shot. I spent the first five of weekly sessions with a very rigid structure of topics and format on the belief that persons with dementia wouldn't be able to handle group process without this support. On the sixth session, my group members politely informed me they wanted to talk about what they wanted to talk about - not what I had listed on the agenda. This was the beginning of a real group experience. I found that with patience and an atmosphere of acceptance, even AD patients with moderate to moderate/severe levels of impairment (Folstein score of 12/30) could talk about their experience share feelings, and support each other. My core group of three stayed with the group for about a year, while four or five others moved in and out of the group during that time. I learned a lot and changed many of my views about what persons with AD can and cannot do. We're currently working on a three year project studying a combined patient - family group intervention. I'd be curious to hear from others who may have had experience in these areas. -------------------------------- Wayne Caron, Ph.D. LMFT | caron001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Family Practice & Community Health | Voice: 612-627-4941 Univerity of Minnesota | Fax: 612-627-4314 --------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: TKELLY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Tim Kelly) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Talking with AD patients Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 93 13:28:45 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 10 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:546 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: TKELLY <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU,@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU:TKELLY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> In-reply-to: Message of Sun,17 Oct 1993 22:52:18 -0500 from To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Wayne: Wesley Woods Geriatric Hospital in Atlanta is running a group for AD patients and a concurrent group for family members. Susan Peterson might be able to give you information on their group. Tim Kelly University of Georgia School of Social Work (706) 542-5441 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US (George Graham) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: discussion Message-ID: <01H49Y88H2EO8ZF9LS@pstcc.cc.tn.us> Date: 19 Oct 93 03:50:03 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 34 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:555 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: GGRAHAM <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:GGRAHAM@PSTCC.CC.TN.US> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GGRAHAM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Helen, Yes I am a practitioner ... a dentsit (dentist). You can see I'm not a typist. I am presently teaching anatomy to nursing students as well as doing dentistry. I see physically/mentally compromised patients inthier homes/nursing homes. I take the treatmemnt tp them since the cost of taking them to an office is costly. I had a lady fall in a nursing home and I was worried about a fracture of the mandible. I had to send her for a panoramic x-ray (I can't transport one of those machines). The x-ray cost her $35 ... the ambulance trip to the office cost $350. Plus in addition to taeching and dentsitry. I'm writing (actually its finished) a manual on how to do dental treatment without the dentsit. This is for nursing/family personnel. I was asked to publish it with the comapny that I have mentioned earlier ... the company which set the parts of the body to music to make memorizing the parts easier. I'm obviously a workaholic. Plus I'm in the early stages of getting a research grant to study something which I have noticed in nursing homes .... That is that if you correect the gum infections in residents ... their UTIs go away .... HHHhhhhhhh,mmmmmmmm !!!!!????? george g ggraham@pstcc.cc.tn.us From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: ICOOPER@SNYESCVA.BITNET (INDIE) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Suggestions Message-ID: Date: 19 Oct 93 02:48:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 13 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:554 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> To: Marshall University Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Original_To: BITNET%"GERINET@UBVM.BITNET" Original_cc: ICOOPER I am an RN who would rather focus on psychosocial needs of people. I currently work in a nursing home and am frustrated because most RNs focus on physical symptoms until a behavioral problem arises and then the subject turns toward possibly trying a medication. When I try to say hey lets look behind the behavior and see if we can find out why this resident feels a need to act out. I don t get much feedback. I also have interviewed prospective employers to see what degrees they preferred. In the mental health field, the preference was mainly toward an MSW however they felt having an RN degree was a real plus. Of course this was the case in a very small sample and could be coincidental. I personally have decided to go the MSW route. It was not an easy decision as I plan to use my nursing skills as an allied health professional. I wish you the best! From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 22 23:00:00 1993 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!marshall.wvnet.edu!newsmgr From: EDWARDSH@QUT.EDU.AU (qut.edu.au) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bit.listserv.gerinet Subject: RE: Talking with AD patients Message-ID: Date: 19 Oct 93 00:05:00 GMT Sender: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Reply-To: Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group Lines: 20 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:553 To: IN%"NEWSMGR@muvms6.wvnet.edu" "Marshall University" CC: Return-path: <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:owner-gerinet@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> Return-path: "H.EDWARDS" <@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU:H.EDWARDS@QUT.EDU.AU> To: Marshall University X-VMS-To: IN%"GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: GERINET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Wayne Great to hear of your work. For a while here in Australia I have been trying to get people to acknowledge the other side of caregiver burden "carereceiver burden". I believe that the carereceivers also have concerns, problems and issues that can be addressed through education and counselling. I have started a clinic thru my university for education, support and counselling for older people (and their caregivers). It's been hard to get it off the ground because the perception seems to be that the older people couldn't or wouldn't want to talk about their concerns - it's even hard for some people to acknowledge that the carereceivers might have some problems with being cared for!! Another problem is that frequently the