From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!convex!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!nobody From: ricka@praline.no.NeoSoft.com (Rick Abrams) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Date: 1 Mar 1995 20:52:07 -0600 Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900 Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3j3bsn$me4@praline.no.NeoSoft.com> References: <518812340wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: praline.no.neosoft.com Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1511 sci.life-extension:4046 sci.cryonics:1711 In reference to the 'tram' story below, I remember a similar one about a rural Tennesee family. Seems a television salesman was going door-to-door trying to sell tv's in the 1950's. When he described it as a picture that moves, a 'little old lady' rose up declaring 'people should stay home and listen to the radio like God intended.' In article , Peter Merel wrote: >Patrick O'Neil writes: > >> If there is profit to be made in a technology, then it develops but...you >>and others like to call for, essentially, what amounts to a Trinity >>Project of investment with specific goals in mind. THAT is where it wont >>happen. > >I've never called for such a thing, nor do I believe that it would be >sensible to do so. Nanotech will come like other engineering, from >private sector investment in profitable development projects. > >>As for drugs to give immunity to >>everything...impossible in principle (though very Star-Trekian). > >I begin to understand why you think that Drexler is a fantasist. I've suggested >a fairly simple and concrete idea in encrypting the human genome; implementing >it will no doubt be fraught with technical difficulty, but perhaps your skills >could be useful in identifying such difficulties. However, dismissing the idea >out of hand as a fantasy is neither useful nor rational. > >>There >>really ARE limits to what technology can do. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy >>using my technologies: nice kevlar skis, a fast computer for working on >>and playing really cool games, VCRs, microwaves, strong fabrics, etc. But >>I also recognize that technology is not the Grail that will bring all the >>world to paradise. Technologies that offer benefits ALWAYS are >>accompanied by costs of varying pains. Some costs are ignored until it is >>too late, others, being unpredicted (and unpredictable) are forced upon us >>to deal with at the last minute; and the treatment always itself brings a >>cost. Just don't get all rosy-eyed and expect the universe. > >My grandfather used to tell a story about a family of peasant farmers coming >down out of the hills to visit his hometown in Austria about 75 years ago. They >saw one of the first electric trams in operation there; they went around the >front of it, and they went around the back of it, and they said "Nothing is >pushing it, and nothing is pulling it ... it must be devil's work!" > >> To make a comment on your above statement: the deserts do not NEED to >>be reclaimed. Reclaimed to what? Deserts are ecologies with perfectly >>adapted species in their own right and have been here since before the >>dinosaurs. They ain't broke. > >Never heard of the Sahara or the Gobi? Those are _man-made_ deserts. >They're the result of thousands of years of poor agricultural >practices. Most of the continent I live on is one big man-made desert - >before the arrival of the man and the dog, central Australia was a huge >inland sea, with a fantastic variety of flourishing flora and fauna; a >minimal desert ecology has evolved in its place, but for the most part it >is now nothing but flat dry red earth. Men destroyed it - why shouldn't >men recreate it? > >>There ARE areas that were once plains or >>forest that are now arid as a direct result of human activity >>(overgrazing, over-cutting, over-tapping of water supplies, downright >>STUPID farming practices) and could use a little reclaimation, but >>hopefully not ONLY so people will buy real estate there to build houses >>and cities on. It would be nice to protect some of it in untouched form. >>Matchbox houses on matchbox plots tend to really dick up habitats, plus >>the grassy lawns everyone insists upon are the worst water wastes on the >>planet (in places where water is not plentiful). > >Just about everywhere in your hemisphere has been cleared of forest and >turned into farms and towns. The untouched forests in my hemisphere are >being woodchipped as fast as the bulldozers can go. Humans are all over >the place, cultivating, stripping and building. > >Imho, we have two ways to go from here. One way is down into a pit of >constant resource scarcity, ignorance, war, famine and suffering; the >other way is up into a world of peace and riches, control of resources >all over the solar system, boundless innovation and experience beyond >our wildest imagination. Star Trek seems a dull and stagnant fantasy >beside this prospect. > >There is no third path that I can see. If you can describe concrete >objections to the technologies that have been proposed, then please >explain them. Not "we shouldn't" or "it'll never" or "it's devil's >work", but real engineering problems. Stop waving your hands and tell >us what the problems are - then your skepticism will be healthy. > >-- >Internet:pete@extro.su.oz.au | Accept Everything. | >http://www.usyd.edu.au/~pete | Reject Nothing. | -- rha From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!extro!okx From: okx@extro (Philip Rhoades) Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Message-ID: Followup-To: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au Reply-To: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Organization: Information Services, Sydney University, Sydney, NSW, Australia X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 01:31:06 GMT Lines: 59 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1510 sci.life-extension:4045 sci.cryonics:1710 Peter Merel (pete@extro.su.oz.au) wrote: : Patrick O'Neil writes: : Just about everywhere in your hemisphere has been cleared of forest and : turned into farms and towns. The untouched forests in my hemisphere are : being woodchipped as fast as the bulldozers can go. Humans are all over : the place, cultivating, stripping and building. : Imho, we have two ways to go from here. One way is down into a pit of : constant resource scarcity, ignorance, war, famine and suffering; I agree with this alternative. : the : other way is up into a world of peace and riches, control of resources : all over the solar system, boundless innovation and experience beyond : our wildest imagination. Star Trek seems a dull and stagnant fantasy : beside this prospect. This is over-optimistic - it assumes that the form of human behaviour that has come to dominate the earth (basically greed and fear) will not continue. Even if what you say is correct wrt future technologies, what gives you the idea that it will be shared amongst all the world's population? If history is any indication (that's all we have) then there will be a continuing amassing of resources, wealth and power by the few and continuing impoverishment of the many. : There is no third path that I can see. The third path is: reduction of world population (in the developed world because it consumes most of the resources and produces the most pollution and in the developing world so it doesn't exacerbate the problem as it develops); minimise consumption of scarce, non-renewable resources; re-cycle everything. Admittedly, this is a fairly unlikely scenario as well (I am pessimistic about our ability to survive on the planet for to much longer). : If you can describe concrete : objections to the technologies that have been proposed, then please : explain them. Not "we shouldn't" or "it'll never" or "it's devil's : work", but real engineering problems. Stop waving your hands and tell : us what the problems are - then your skepticism will be healthy. They are not engineering problems but sociological/behavioural problems. New, spacey technology is not going to cure the fundamental problems of equity, distribution etc. Great debate though . . . Phil. -- Philip Rhoades Pricom Pty Limited E-mail: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Phone: +61-2-963-2246 Fax: +61-2-569-5329 S-mail: GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Names of known ancestors (mostly from the UK): ADAMSON BAILEY CHIGWIDDEN CHURCH DAVIES HENDERSON KEOUGH LAW MAY (MAI-Poznan) McMAHON OLIVER PEGUS RANKIN SIMMONS SMITH SOLLOWAY TUCKEY TUNKS WHITTET From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU!cummins From: cummins@POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU (Dr Jim Cummins) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: deletions in MtDNA Date: 1 Mar 1995 16:48:58 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Hi: J.Harvey@net.bio.net wrote >Anyone out there working on deletions in MtDNA? Yes, we are interested in mtDNA deletions as possible cause of male infertility: some forms of which present as premature ageing of the testis. See our recent review in Molecular Reproduction and Development 1994 37: 345-362. I'd be happy to continue to share ideas. >I've got a question concerning the direct repeats flanking the >regions that get deleted. My understanding is that the major deletions occur in regions of tandem repeats that cause slipped-strand misrepair during replication. See Corral-Debrinski et al J A Med Assoc 266: 7952-6. However, I'm open to alternative suggestions. Yours, virtually:- Jim "Spermatology rules o~ o~ o~ o~" Cummins Associate Professor in Veterinary Anatomy Murdoch University, Murdoch Western Australia 6150 Tel +61-9-360 2668 Fax +61-9-310 4144 E mail cummins@possum.murdoch.edu.au "I hate quotations" From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: "Care To Live An Extra Hundred Years" Date: 1 Mar 1995 19:23:05 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 18 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <950301182215_36320145@aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net It is a good promotional video to enlighten people of the possibilities of breakthourghs in genetic immortality studies. It is for people who are interested in sharing their hopes with others. 14 minutes long, it graphically describes telomerase and its potential. If you are interested in circulating the video with other groups to promote immortality research and public education, we can send you a copy along w/literature on COADS. Thanks for inquiring. On Wed, 1 Mar 1995 SForsgren@aol.com wrote: > Is it a good video? How do you get it? > > Thanks! > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!usenet From: tedkalli@acy.digex.net (Ted Kalli) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Literature Search HELP - study.txt [1/1] Date: 2 Mar 1995 12:01:27 GMT Organization: AURA Research, Ltd. Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3j4c2n$fj4@news1.digex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: acc00168.slip.digex.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Application/octet-stream; name=study.txt X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.11 I hope I am posting this in the right place. If not, would appreciate proper newgroup for this posting. I am currently studying the application of an oil-in-water emulsion of hydrogen peroxide to the skin. Naturally, my concern is the production of free radicals, since this seems to be a major topic of discussion. I recall some studies and results where the pH of skin was monitored during treatment with cosmetic products. If pH remains low, there is a high probability that hydrogen peroxide remains intact, at least until it reaches live epidermal cells where catalase enzymes plus neutral conditions of blood/lymph would favor quick conversion to oxygen. I predict a correlation between rate of neutralization of the emulsion and release of oxygen in situ on human skin. Thereby, the time would be short wherin reactive hydrogen peroxide per se was present on the skin, acting as a source for free radicals. Release of oxygen from hydrogen peroxide, via this scheme, would approximate that accompanying inhalation of 100% gaseous oxygen such as during respiration therapy. I am searching for published methods describing reactions of squalene with hydrogen peroxide and the resulting compounds, for example, MDA. Thanks in advance for any help on this matter. Ted Kalli AURA Research, Ltd. (800) 553-4349 US and Canada (609) 390-0488 international (609) 390-2059 fax tedkalli@acy.digex.net compuserve 73553,1327 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!gatech!udel!news.mathworks.com!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!extro!okx From: okx@extro (Philip Rhoades) Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Message-ID: Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au Reply-To: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Organization: Information Services, Sydney University, Sydney, NSW, Australia X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:27:54 GMT Lines: 27 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1514 sci.life-extension:4057 sci.cryonics:1716 Sorry to follow up my own post but . . . Philip Rhoades (okx@extro) wrote: : Peter Merel (pete@extro.su.oz.au) wrote: : : Patrick O'Neil writes: : : Just about everywhere in your hemisphere has been cleared of forest and : : turned into farms and towns. The untouched forests in my hemisphere are : : being woodchipped as fast as the bulldozers can go. Humans are all over : : the place, cultivating, stripping and building. : : Imho, we have two ways to go from here. One way is down into a pit of : : constant resource scarcity, ignorance, war, famine and suffering; : I agree with this alternative. What I meant, of course, was that I agree that this is one alternative. Phil. -- Philip Rhoades Pricom Pty Limited E-mail: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Phone: +61-2-963-2246 Fax: +61-2-569-5329 S-mail: GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Names of known ancestors (mostly from the UK): ADAMSON BAILEY CHIGWIDDEN CHURCH DAVIES HENDERSON KEOUGH LAW MAY (MAI-Poznan) McMAHON OLIVER PEGUS RANKIN SIMMONS SMITH SOLLOWAY TUCKEY TUNKS WHITTET From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Collective Efforts For Research (fwd) Date: 1 Mar 1995 19:42:28 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 80 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 22:41:16 -0600 (CST) From: Don Ashley To: oracle oracle Subject: Collective Efforts For Research Owen, We have a group called The Curing Old Age Disease Society (COADS) with objectives that you mention. Strategically, we avoid product endorsement and focus on public awareness and funds generation for research. Our annual banquet in September will promote these objectives. We have budget to pay honorarium to attract a high draw speaker to Houston as keynote presenter. Our president and COADS have been featured in local and national media. Resistance is challenging. We plan to initiate essay contests, and sponsor debates on the issues. We are approaching figureheads in various industries to participate as sponsors or judges for the contests and banquet. Funds and proceeds are targeted for research and public awareness. Our status is grass roots. We need ideas and energy. (And certainly funds to operate). Whatever your efforts are in your community, we would like very much to combine efforts with you for maximum effect toward common objectives. Happy to send you literature and video entitled "Care To Live An Extra 100 Years" at your request. At this point, part of our strategy is to identify politicians who may be favorable to these objectives as well as private sector leaders. Since some movement has already been made, we would like to determine what rationale was convincing enough to enact funding and expand on that rationale. Specifically, there have been decisions made at the committee and legislative level to invest venture capital and to direct public funding for genetic anti-aging (immortality) research. Suppression of research and technology has been claimed, but specifics and evidence of such are not available. Other than the general public attitude of fear, disbelief, and negativity. Compiling favorable media representatives is necessary and if you read or view any public figures who are friendly to these concerns, we need to contact them. We also need to enlist any other influential or publicly known people. Most importantly, those of us in the general public who want to get involved in the leg work should be given the opportunity. There is much work to be done (it certainly doesn't have to be unpleasant work) for people of all talents and energies. We all stand to benefit from the process as well as the result. Don Ashley On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, oracle oracle wrote: > > Don, > > I have been following your posts to Bionet.molbio.ageing. I share your belief that controling the ageing process and extending our lifespans is indeed possible. I would go as far as to say that it is inevitable. My immediate concern is, of course, can it be accomplished before I grow old and die. I am 34 years old so I probably have 40 or so years in which to make something happen. > > I fear we are ahead of our time in our beliefs. It may take too many years for the social, political, and religious climate to be right to properly fund and mobilize the resources necessary to reach our goal. Our only hope is to begin now actively creating the environment in which it can happen. > > We must plan and organize. Right now there are probably few who believe as we do, yet there is so much that must be done. Coordinating scientific efforts, reducing redundant research, attaining public and private funding, educating the public, combatting inevitable religious opposition, promoting global cooperation, enlisting influential individuals and organizations, etc. Like a polital campaign we must find support where we can, and unceasingly promote our agenda. > > I hope to hear back from you soon to discuss how we can cooperate. My phone number is (914) 644 2811. My e-mail address is oracle@nynexst.com. > > Owen McGettrick > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!kcowing-ppp.clark.net!user From: kcowing@aibs.org (Keith L. Cowing) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.molluscs,bionet.molbio.proteinsbionet.molbio,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.bio-matrix Subject: CALL: Peer Review Panel Recruitment: American Institute of Biological Sciences Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 12:44:37 -0500 Organization: American Institute of Biological Sciences Lines: 176 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: kcowing-ppp.clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:25301 bionet.molbio.molluscs:67 bionet.molbio.ageing:1516 bionet.molbio.bio-matrix:565 American Institute of Biological Sciences: 1995 Peer Review Panel Recruitment € AIBS PEER REVIEWS The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) performs scientific peer review of proposals submitted to various government agencies. AIBS peer review activity in 1994 involved the receipt and processing of almost 5,000 proposals. These proposals were reviewed by over 100 panels composed of more than 1,000 scientific and technical reviewers. Below is a listing of the types of topics for which we have convened panels in 1994 as well what we expect to handle in 1995. € ABOUT AIBS AIBS was established in 1947 by the National Academy of Sciences under federal charter and became an independent, member-governed nonprofit (501)(c)(3) organization in 1955. AIBS currently has 5,000 individual members and has 45 affiliated societies whose combined membership totals over 80,000. AIBS is chartered to: "further the advancement of the biological sciences and their application to human welfare, and to foster and encourage research and education in the biological, medical, environmental, and agriculture sciences." For more information about AIBS, you can check out our gopher (currently under construction) at gopher.aibs.org or point your browser at: gopher://gopher.aibs.org € WE NEED YOUR HELP! If you were a panelist in 1994 (or previous years) and are willing to serve again; would like to serve for the first time; or know someone who is interested in serving on a similar panel, we'd like to know. Also, if you know of other people who might be able to serve on any of the panels listed below, we'd certainly like to know about them too. € AIBS REVIEWER PROFILE [1.] Please provide the following personal information: Full Name: Title: Organization/institution: Address line 1: Address line 2: Address line 3: City: State: Zip Code: Work phone: Home phone: Fax: email: US citizen?: Gender: Date of Birth: Disability: [OPTIONAL]: Ethnic Background: [OPTIONAL]: [2.] Please provide the following information regarding your expertise: Discipline (primary): Specialty: Sub disciplines: Subspecialties: Training/experience: Computer Preference? Mac or PC? Newsgroup you read this on? [3.] Please provide us with a copy of your current CV/resume. A list of publications is sufficient, please do not send reprints. € HOW TO RECOMMEND OTHERS FOR CONSIDERATION If at all possible, have them follow the same procedure outline above. If that isn't possible, please provide us with a name, a means to contact these individuals, and any description you can of their skills and interests. €HOW TO SEND US THIS INFORMATION Send the personal information and your CV/resume (together or separately) to us via: Email: reston@aibs.org (flat text files or enclosures - Mac or PC formatted) FAX: 703-758-1222 Mail: AIBS, 10700 Parkridge Blvd., Suite 380, Reston, VA, USA, 22091 Telephone: 703-758-1212 for help or further information about AIBS peer review services. € CONFIDENTIALITY OF INFORMATION The information you provide will be kept in the AIBS Consultant Roster. This database is for internal AIBS use during the recruitment of peer review panelists. We do not sell names, personal information, or access to this system. AIBS employs confidentiality and conflict of interest practices similar to that employed by NIH and NSF. €ANTICIPATED AIBS PEER REVIEW PANEL TOPICS AND EXPERTISE NEEDED € Aquacultural endocrinology and physiology; sea food pathogens: diagnosis, assay, disease control € Aquaculture natural products, biomaterials, bioactivity, pharmacological uses € Aquaculture policy, education, information, communications, technology transfer € Biocomputing, biological modeling, nanotechnology € Bioethics € Biological and medical information systems, internet usage, biological database design, data analysis, biostatistics € Biomedical imaging technology: mammography, radiology, NMR, PET, ultrasound € Biomedical infrastructure: registry, laboratory/animal resources, € Bioprocessing, biotechnology € Cancer cell and tissue biology, molecular biology, immunology, interleukin and interferon therapies € Cancer detection & diagnosis; chemotherapy, medicinal chemistry, nuclear tracer chemistry € Cardiopulmonary physiology in microgravity , exercise physiology, cardiac deconditioning € Cellular genetics, immunology, intra- and inter-cellular communication € Conservation biology, endangered species, biological diversity, habitat destruction € Developmental and reproductive biology in microgravity: avian, mammalian, amphibian, reptilian, invertebrate € Electromagnetic interactions with living systems: effects, detection, protection € Endocrinology and regulatory physiology during spaceflight, chronobiology, circadian rhythms. growth factors, endocrinology of cancer € Environmental aspects of community planing: civil engineering, land use zoning € Environmental budget analysts/economics, demographics € Environmental law and policy: regulation, compliance, and enforcement € Environmental technology diffusion and transfer € Exobiology, origin and evolution of life, origin of biogenic compounds € Geographic information systems, satellite navigation and geodesy € Global Warming, Earth Observation System, Mission to Planet Earth € Gravitational biology, gravitropism, gravisensing, graviresponse € "Green" chemistry: process controls and feedback systems; "green" buildings € Health care delivery, community health, counseling, psychosocial factors, psychology, sociology, € Incinerator monitoring, biomass combustion systems, particulate control, indoor air pollution, NOx control € Infectious disease, vaccines, epidemiology, parasitology, virology, bacteriology, retrovirology/HIV € Life cycle analysis, recycling, continuous monitoring systems € Marine bioacoustics, cetacean science, marine mammals, fishing area depletion € Microgravity muscle physiology and sensorimotor integration, exercise countermeasures € Neurofibromatosis € Neuroscience and behavior, space motion sickness, space adaptation syndrome, vestibular structure and function in microgravity € NSCORT (NASA Centers of Specialized Research & Training) € Nutrition and metabolism, pregnancy and endocrinology € Operational medicine (military and space), telemedicine, trauma, surgery, rehabilitative medicine € Opportunities in science for ethnic minorities, women, senior citizens, and the disabled € PCR, genetic analysis, genetic engineering, genetically modified organisms € Pesticide use: monitoring, regulation, enforcement, alternatives € Plant biology in microgravity: genetics, development, growth, and propagation € Pollution, air, soil, and water: detection, monitoring, and prevention; clean up: in-situ subsurface treatment, biotechnology € Radiation environment during spaceflight: effects, detection, protection € Remote sensing (satellite and aircraft) for disease control, land use planning, habitat monitoring, pollution detection, climate change € Science education, undergraduate, graduate, postgraduate; curriculum design € Skeletal and biomineralization physiology in microgravity, calcium homeostasis, bone loss € Space human factors studies, ergonomics, performance, interpersonal relations € Space Shuttle Middeck, Spacelab research hardware, Space Station hardware, Russian Mir Space Station research, Biocosmos/Biosatellite research € Spacecraft life support systems: physicochemical and biological air/water/food regeneration € Spacesuit design and extravehicular activity (spacewalk) physiology € Toxicology, spacecraft air/water contamination, environmental health, occupational health, safety € Toxicology: drinking water systems , recycling systems, waste water systems € Vision hazards from laser use From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!chnews!ornews.intel.com!mcd1.fm.intel.com!fiw149!brauchfu From: brauchfu@fiw149.fm.intel.com (Brian Rauchfuss - PCD) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) Date: 1 Mar 1995 19:48:14 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Folsom CA Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3j2j1u$5ra@mcd1.fm.intel.com> References: <1995Feb20.231356.14259@alw.nih.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: fiw149.fm.intel.com Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1519 sci.life-extension:4063 In article , Brian Manning Delaney wrote: :diff. levels of activity seen between the two groups. But my main :point was that "youthification" may not always mean a longer life :span, in part because the symptoms of aging could be protective in :some way. Ex: some (but not all) studies have shown declining levels :of CoQ w/age in rats. Maybe the slower metabolism this produces :actually slows aging (lower consequent rate of free-rad. production, :etc.). If this was true then the CoQ rats should have had a shorter maximum life-span than the controls, but they did not (I gather from your report). Since the CoQ rats had a longer average life-span, but the same maximum, it sounds like CoQ is all positive in regards to preventing early death, but does not effect the overall life-limiting mechanisms. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Rauchfuss (Smokefoot) "I never knew I could change my life, brauchfu@pcocd2.intel.com like the artist paints his dreams on a canvas" - Minor Detail From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.cryonics Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!crsgbdyn17.cray.com!user From: coucher@oregon.cray.com (Robert Coucher) Subject: Re: Aging Cure and Population Stability Message-ID: Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: crsgbdyn17.cray.com Organization: Cray Research Superservers, Inc. References: <558880895wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Date: 2 Mar 95 18:59:06 CST Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1518 sci.cryonics:1718 John, I'm no expert on Chaos Theory, but I am somewhat acquainted with it...I've never seen any element of same which leads to your conclusion below...Could you please provide specific references within this body of theory (authors, biblo, formulae, etc.) which support this interesting conclusion...How did you come up with this assertion, please? Also, I think there are currently legitimate theories that the universe may be put together such that it will expand forever at an ever decreasing rate (contingent of course on the right mix of wimps, machos, cold dark/hot dark matter and a bunch of other stuff). If these theories pan out, which of course they may not, then, wouldn't that be perpetual motion? If so, not so stupid, eh? >Chaos theory shows us that the idea of government controlling anything >successfully is rather like the idea of perpetual motion - stupid. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!extro!pete From: Peter Merel Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Message-ID: Originator: pete@extro Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au Reply-To: pete@extro.su.oz.au Organization: Softlife Pty.Ltd. References: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 23:23:30 GMT Lines: 84 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1517 sci.life-extension:4060 sci.cryonics:1717 okx@extro (Philip Rhoades) writes: >pete@extro (Peter Merel) writes: >: the other way is up into a world of peace and riches, control of resources >: all over the solar system, boundless innovation and experience beyond >: our wildest imagination. Star Trek seems a dull and stagnant fantasy >: beside this prospect. >This is over-optimistic - it assumes that the form of human behaviour that >has come to dominate the earth (basically greed and fear) will not >continue. I think that it is unfair to suggest that greed and fear dominate all human activities, but I grant that they are very popular motivations and won't go away soon. However they are not incommensurable with peace and riches. >Even if what you say is correct wrt future technologies, what >gives you the idea that it will be shared amongst all the world's >population? When houses can be built from the equivalent of Jack's magic beans, when food can be constructed out of thin air, when living space, clean water, medicine and plentiful energy are available in abundance, the only real poor will be the politically disenfranchised. I don't imagine that all people will be enfranchised, nor that people will not hoard. Nanotech won't solve our political problems; it can greatly alleviate their effects. >If history is any indication (that's all we have) then there >will be a continuing amassing of resources, wealth and power by the few >and continuing impoverishment of the many. That's true, but if the technology means that the poor will still be better off, then the technology is still of benefit to them. Nanotech is a cornucopia because it permits digital replication of molecular arrangements; we are used to the benefits of digital replication of information, and we are all familiar with the nature of the information economy that this has produced; although it allows developers to limit the use of the products they create, it has also allowed them to distribute a great many useful products for free. In other words, and not to be facetious, let them eat GNU. >: There is no third path that I can see. >The third path is: reduction of world population (in the developed world >because it consumes most of the resources and produces the most pollution >and in the developing world so it doesn't exacerbate the problem as it >develops); I think that this is a desirable course in the short-term; the only ethical way to do it, I think, is to modify human fertility. Not to sterilize humanity as some have suggested here, but to reduce its fertility to manageable levels. We could perhaps modify Patrick O'Neils' genocide virus to only alter human hormone levels so that no one would be fertile until the age of 30, and so that no one would be fertile after the age of 40. Of course the real problem with this is not how to engineer it, but how to introduce it without getting lynched by religious fundamentalists ... >minimise consumption of scarce, non-renewable resources; >re-cycle everything. If nanotech is as readily feasible as it seems, very soon we will have no scarce non-renewable resources. >Admittedly, this is a fairly unlikely scenario as >well (I am pessimistic about our ability to survive on the planet for to >much longer). Why? >They are not engineering problems but sociological/behavioural problems. >New, spacey technology is not going to cure the fundamental problems of >equity, distribution etc. Look at the information economy that exists now, and imagine what the world will be like when the material economy takes the same form. That doesn't solve all our problems of course, but it can solve any problem that is based on resource scarcity - which is one hell of a lot of problems, imho. -- Internet:pete@extro.su.oz.au | Accept Everything. | http://www.usyd.edu.au/~pete | Reject Nothing. | From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail From: rkeysphd@pipeline.com (Ronald B. Keys J.D. Ph.D) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: 'Promote Life Extension' Date: 2 Mar 1995 22:30:40 -0500 Organization: The Pipeline Lines: 97 Message-ID: <3j62h0$n4b@pipe2.pipeline.com> References: <3j0pn9$qp4@pipe4.pipeline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe2.pipeline.com Dear Don, EBB Moderator & Interested Others: CLEAR THINKING ON PROMOTING LIFE EXTENSION: DEFINING THE PROBLEM: There is both life extension science and culture. The problem is moving it from the fringe to (1) mainstream science and (2) culture. Some people perceive it even as being a lunatic fringe. The life extension sciences can be divided further into (a) life extension academic science and (b) its related clinical sciences. Life extension clinical sciences can be divided further into mainstream pharmaceutical medicine, nutritional pharmacology, herbology, homeopathy and other sub-classifications. Life extension, at this time in human history, is in its infancy and is both a fringe science and culture. JUST A START:: HOW TO MOVE IT FROM THE FRINGE INTO MAINSTREAM: 1. POLITICAL PROCESS: Influence the mainstream political process in our state and federal congress by turning up the heat in its kitchen where its ovens are located. Ask and encourage politicians and would-be politicians to take positive positions supporting bills in our legislatures that promote all of the different aspects of life extension science (funding research projects) and culture (educational programs in our elementary, junior, senior high schools, medical schools and law schools). Find politicians, develop mentor-protege relationships and forge power-relationships with them since people will benefit with LONGER FUNCTIONAL LIFESPANS. Educate those who you speak with that the emphasis is prolonging longer functional lifespans, enhancing range of function of those currently disabled, enhancing treatment outcome and quality of life. Educate people that its time to retire the concept of "retirement" as we know and experience it, today. Influence the political processes at all of our local universities to incorporate basic concepts of the life extension science and culture into mainstream academic and training programs, now. This includes nursing, the entire dietary and food management industry, accounting, law and particular, estate planning, clinical medicine in all of its forms, art, science, literature. There is a political process that operates clearly at all colleges and universities that is connected to the political process at state and federal levels. It is all part of the same continuum that requires a comprehensive political stratetgy. 2. EDUCATIONAL PROCESS: Specialized educational curricula, age-specific computer programs and teaching materials have to be developed for children at the youngest age that includes appropriate reading materials, coloring books, dolls that show shifts and changes in shape, body compartments and changes in lean body mass as a function of age, changes in skin integrity as well as video materials. Children have the capacity to understand life extension science and culture(developing a new concept of personal hygiene for children) but do we have the capacity to teach it? Teaching materials have to be modified for continuing the flow of information from our research computer databanks directly to our junior and senior high schools and then to our medical and law schools. Bioethics of aging have to be incorporated into basic literature coursework, into our law school property and estate planning courses, and into mainstream clinical medical and nutritional practice. 3. POPULAR CULTURE: Screen and TV script writers should be encouraged to develop more material about the positive aspects of a continued functional lifespan well into the 80s, 90s and beyond since their works have such a substantial impact on popular culture. More talk shows should cover this subject without turning it into a freak show only for laughs and ratings. So, take a screen and/or TV script writer for dinner or lunch some time. Search out and talk to upcoming local reporters, TV and radio personalities and develop credible, personal relationships with them. Encourage playrwriters to develop drama materials that puts the process of aging in a positive, constructive light. Develop graphic arts projects and comedy shows that can be used in the media to teach, educate and entertain the masses on positive aspects of aging. The soil of popular opinion can be influenced to reflect the exciting changes and ideas increasingly coming off of the studies in our science computer databases. Life extension science and culture is not just for oddballs but for everybody, if the soil of popular opinion is cultivated. When the soil of popular opinion is properly cultivated, resources and funding will come for further scientific research and the evolution of life extension science and culture. Avoid a "true believer" (book by Eric Hoffer) mentality and keep your center as you move forward, striving to advance (1) functional ranges in aging people, (2) clinical outcome and (3) their (your) quality of life. The children can learn, but, will we teach them? From the cutting edge, Ronald B. Keys, JD, PhD (rkeysphd@pipeline.com) (3-2-95) Queens, NYC (718) 460-3966 American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, American Aging Association, International Association of Biomedical Gerontology, National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, American Academy of Clinical Gerontology, Life Extension Foundation, From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.provo.novell.com!news.cs.utah.edu!news.cc.utah.edu!corona!patrick From: Patrick O'Neil Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 21:11:28 -0700 Organization: University Of Utah Computer Center Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: corona.med.utah.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1521 sci.life-extension:4070 sci.cryonics:1721 On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Peter Merel wrote: > >The third path is: reduction of world population (in the developed world > >because it consumes most of the resources and produces the most pollution > >and in the developing world so it doesn't exacerbate the problem as it > >develops); > > I think that this is a desirable course in the short-term; the only > ethical way to do it, I think, is to modify human fertility. Not to > sterilize humanity as some have suggested here, but to reduce its > fertility to manageable levels. We could perhaps modify Patrick > O'Neils' genocide virus to only alter human hormone levels so that no > one would be fertile until the age of 30, and so that no one would be > fertile after the age of 40. Of course the real problem with this is > not how to engineer it, but how to introduce it without getting lynched > by religious fundamentalists ... The problem with engineering a virus (or any potential pathogen) to do "good" deeds for us is that once it is released, all control over its further development and direction are totally lost. It will follow whatever path it follows irrespective of what we might want and that might not be reduced fertility (in this case), but outright sterility or worse. Don't look to viruses, per se, for any nice answers. They, like all organisms, are subject to natural selective forces which do not take our desires or wishes into account. A germ-line modification could be accomplished, though male fertility is declining as is with no known cause (sperm counts are lower, in general, and going down - who knows where it will end?) or something like a childhood somatic gene therapy innoculation that leads to a reduced period of fertility. So long as there is some assurance of controlling or reversing the alteration, then it might suffice with little harm overall. Patrick From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!ellis!bmdelane From: bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian Manning Delaney) Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: midway.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Reply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago References: <1995Feb20.231356.14259@alw.nih.gov> <3j2j1u$5ra@mcd1.fm.intel.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 05:47:22 GMT Lines: 50 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1522 sci.life-extension:4072 In article <3j2j1u$5ra@mcd1.fm.intel.com> brauchfu@fiw149.fm.intel.com (Brian Rauchfuss - PCD) wrote, among other things: >In article , >Brian Manning Delaney wrote: > >:diff. levels of activity seen between the two groups. But my main >:point was that "youthification" may not always mean a longer life >:span, in part because the symptoms of aging could be protective in >:some way. Ex: some (but not all) studies have shown declining levels >:of CoQ w/age in rats. Maybe the slower metabolism this produces >:actually slows aging (lower consequent rate of free-rad. production, >:etc.). > >If this was true then the CoQ rats should have had a shorter maximum >life-span than the controls.... Only if it were true AND there were no other effects of CoQ. >... but they did not (I gather from your >report). Since the CoQ rats had a longer average life-span, but the >same maximum, it sounds like CoQ is all positive in regards to preventing >early death, but does not effect the overall life-limiting >mechanisms. There are two thing sto explain: 1) the delay in onset of cancer; and 2) the apparently "youthful" nature of the very old surviving CoQ rodents compared w/controls, coupled w/no extension in max. life span. If you eliminate the rodents who die from cancer, you get a bunch of controls and a bunch of exp. animals all of which die at essentially the same age. But there is a dramatic diff. in fur thickness, incidence of hip dysplasia, etc., that make the CoQ animals seem much younger than the controsl. (Unfort'ly, Harris and Coles didn't do any lab work other than the quick autopsies, so we have no other data.) So I'd say this means that there are effects on life-limiting mechanisms, but that, in this experiment at least, some are negative, and some are positive. (If that's what you mean by "overall.." then I agree.) But, of course, this is making a lot out of just one small study. Still, I think the concern I'm voicing here is one to keep in mind when assessing the "vitality-enhancing" products pushed by many so- called life-extension companies. Human growth hormone- and testosterone-replacement, for ex., both seem rather risky, in part for this reason (tho' there are other reasons to avoid these two hormones in particular). -- Brian M. Delaney [DO NOT cc: articles to me.] [Wrists: "Leave unambiguous typos."] Note: All statements in this article are in jest; they are not statements of fact. * "Mein Genie ist in meinen Nuestern." -Nietzsche. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!yarrina.connect.com.au!classic.iinet.com.au!news From: datalog@iinet.com.au (David Novak) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Assistance pls Gerinet, LTCare-l & Senior Forums?? Date: 3 Mar 1995 15:46:44 GMT Organization: iiNet Technologies Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3j7dl4$jan@classic.iinet.com.au> Reply-To: datalog@Iinet.com.au NNTP-Posting-Host: datalog.iinet.com.au X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ Good Evening Fellow Internauts Would you assist me in locating these three listserv forums for a worthy cause. Perhaps you know a current contact address for these? LTCare-l Frm US Department of Health and Human Services Senior Once recorded as resident at listserv@indycms.iupui.edu and a Mr John Harlan Gerinet I believe at the buffalo site, but can't find it. Any assistance appreciated. David Datalog@iinet.com.au From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!lenti.med.umn.edu!selby From: selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med Heme)) Subject: stop the pop science-plz Message-ID: Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: lenti.med.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:55:30 GMT Lines: 5 This newsgroup is getting as bad as Time as far as it's depth of probing into actual questions of value to the scientific community. Please stop and leave the discussion to people who might actually use this group for communicating with research colleagues. ^^^^^^^^ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: WHCA Focus On Anti-Aging Research (fwd) Date: 3 Mar 1995 00:50:47 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 32 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 18:21:03 -0600 From: Don Ashley To: Multiple recipients of list WHCA95-L Subject: WHCA Focus On Anti-Aging Research This is a request for info on support of anti-aging research by WHCA or any other federal support to promote genetic life span studies. All info on affirmative movement would be helpful to combat public's opinion that White House is opposed to anything that would lengthen life span. Telomerase, the 'immortality' enzyme reported in 12/23/94 'Science' and other credible sources, gives evidence of possible perpetuation of cell division in humans. The term 'immortality' does not mean eternity or invisible protective shields in traffic. It does refer to ongoing healthy cell division instead of genetically programmed cessation at 70-80 years. Immunity systems will continue to defend against major mortality factors, heart disease and cancer. 200+ year lifespans conceivable. The concensus is that government is not just indifferent, but acutally suppresses research. Actual source of such fears is hard to trace. Any source data or references on government position, either supportive or suppressive is requested. Exploration of such and clarification will follow. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Reversible Contraceptive Innoculations Date: 3 Mar 1995 00:33:17 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 43 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Reportedly, there is research on vaccination for reversible contraception. Effects would be to eliminate much of the unwanted pregnancies suggested to comprise half of all new population growth. On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Patrick O'Neil wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Peter Merel wrote: > > >The third path is: reduction of world population (in the developed world > > >because it consumes most of the resources and produces the most pollution > > >and in the developing world so it doesn't exacerbate the problem as it > > >develops); > > > > I think that this is a desirable course in the short-term; the only > > ethical way to do it, I think, is to modify human fertility. Not to > > sterilize humanity as some have suggested here, but to reduce its > > fertility to manageable levels. We could perhaps modify Patrick > > O'Neils' genocide virus to only alter human hormone levels so that no > > one would be fertile until the age of 30, and so that no one would be > > fertile after the age of 40. Of course the real problem with this is > > not how to engineer it, but how to introduce it without getting lynched > > by religious fundamentalists ... > > The problem with engineering a virus (or any potential pathogen) to do > "good" deeds for us is that once it is released, all control over its > further development and direction are totally lost. It will follow > whatever path it follows irrespective of what we might want and that > might not be reduced fertility (in this case), but outright sterility or > worse. Don't look to viruses, per se, for any nice answers. They, like > all organisms, are subject to natural selective forces which do not take > our desires or wishes into account. A germ-line modification could be > accomplished, though male fertility is declining as is with no known > cause (sperm counts are lower, in general, and going down - who knows > where it will end?) or something like a childhood somatic gene therapy > innoculation that leads to a reduced period of fertility. So long as > there is some assurance of controlling or reversing the alteration, then > it might suffice with little harm overall. > > Patrick > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: 'Promote Life Extension'/Recruitment Date: 3 Mar 1995 00:30:39 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 108 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3j62h0$n4b@pipe2.pipeline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net We are recruiting manpower to research and expand on these concepts. Would welcome coordinated efforts in your community. On 2 Mar 1995, Ronald B. Keys J.D. Ph.D wrote: > Dear Don, EBB Moderator & Interested Others: > > CLEAR THINKING ON PROMOTING LIFE EXTENSION: > > DEFINING THE PROBLEM: There is both life extension science and culture. The > problem is moving it from the fringe to (1) mainstream science and (2) > culture. Some people perceive it even as being a lunatic fringe. The life > extension sciences can be divided further into (a) life extension academic > science and (b) its related clinical sciences. Life extension clinical > sciences can be divided further into mainstream pharmaceutical medicine, > nutritional pharmacology, herbology, homeopathy and other > sub-classifications. Life extension, at this time in human history, is in > its infancy and is both a fringe science and culture. > > JUST A START:: HOW TO MOVE IT FROM THE FRINGE INTO MAINSTREAM: > > 1. POLITICAL PROCESS: Influence the mainstream political process in our > state and federal congress by turning up the heat in its kitchen where its > ovens are located. Ask and encourage politicians and would-be politicians > to take positive positions supporting bills in our legislatures that > promote all of the different aspects of life extension science (funding > research projects) and culture (educational programs in our elementary, > junior, senior high schools, medical schools and law schools). Find > politicians, develop mentor-protege relationships and forge > power-relationships with them since people will benefit with LONGER > FUNCTIONAL LIFESPANS. Educate those who you speak with that the emphasis is > prolonging longer functional lifespans, enhancing range of function of > those currently disabled, enhancing treatment outcome and quality of life. > Educate people that its time to retire the concept of "retirement" as we > know and experience it, today. Influence the political processes at all of > our local universities to incorporate basic concepts of the life extension > science and culture into mainstream academic and training programs, now. > This includes nursing, the entire dietary and food management industry, > accounting, law and particular, estate planning, clinical medicine in all > of its forms, art, science, literature. There is a political process that > operates clearly at all colleges and universities that is connected to the > political process at state and federal levels. It is all part of the same > continuum that requires a comprehensive political stratetgy. > > 2. EDUCATIONAL PROCESS: Specialized educational curricula, age-specific > computer programs and teaching materials have to be developed for children > at the youngest age that includes appropriate reading materials, coloring > books, dolls that show shifts and changes in shape, body compartments and > changes in lean body mass as a function of age, changes in skin integrity > as well as video materials. Children have the capacity to understand life > extension science and culture(developing a new concept of personal hygiene > for children) but do we have the capacity to teach it? Teaching materials > have to be modified for continuing the flow of information from our > research computer databanks directly to our junior and senior high schools > and then to our medical and law schools. Bioethics of aging have to be > incorporated into basic literature coursework, into our law school property > and estate planning courses, and into mainstream clinical medical and > nutritional practice. > > 3. POPULAR CULTURE: Screen and TV script writers should be encouraged to > develop more material about the positive aspects of a continued functional > lifespan well into the 80s, 90s and beyond since their works have such a > substantial impact on popular culture. More talk shows should cover this > subject without turning it into a freak show only for laughs and ratings. > So, take a screen and/or TV script writer for dinner or lunch some time. > Search out and talk to upcoming local reporters, TV and radio personalities > and develop credible, personal relationships with them. Encourage > playrwriters to develop drama materials that puts the process of aging in a > positive, constructive light. Develop graphic arts projects and comedy > shows that can be used in the media to teach, educate and entertain the > masses on positive aspects of aging. The soil of popular opinion can be > influenced to reflect the exciting changes and ideas increasingly coming > off of the studies in our science computer databases. Life extension > science and culture is not just for oddballs but for everybody, if the soil > of popular opinion is cultivated. > > > When the soil of popular opinion is properly cultivated, resources and > funding will come for further scientific research and the evolution of > life extension science and culture. Avoid a "true believer" (book by Eric > Hoffer) mentality and keep your center as you move forward, striving to > advance (1) functional ranges in aging people, (2) clinical outcome and (3) > their (your) quality of life. > > The children can learn, but, will we teach them? > > > >From the cutting edge, > > > Ronald B. Keys, JD, PhD (rkeysphd@pipeline.com) (3-2-95) Queens, NYC (718) > 460-3966 > American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, American Aging Association, > International Association of Biomedical Gerontology, National Academy of > Elder Law Attorneys, American Academy of Clinical Gerontology, Life > Extension Foundation, > > > > > > > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: RE: ATTITUDES TO LIFE EXT From: david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (David Lloyd-Jones) Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.bc.net!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!portnoy!canrem.com!david.lloyd-jones Distribution: world Message-ID: <60.649.4045.0N1D307C@canrem.com> References: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 14:29:00 -0500 Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) Lines: 31 luly@netcom.com (Robert Luly) writes: RL+ The International Population Report P95/92-3 graphing shows the MAXIMUM +life span to be 110 to 120 years for tha past 100,000 years (I don't know +how they *know* that) and thare has been no "right shift" of this age to +date. The graphing also shows a steady "right shift" of AVERAGE life span +from 20 years old in 10,000 bc to 35 yrs. in 1000 AD to 40 yrs. in 1700 to +50 yrs. in 1900 and projected to be 80 yrs. in 2000. Note that this increase to 80 years is only likely in the countries with socialised medicine -- Europe, Japan, Canada. In the US life expectancy is static. In Russia, which suffers from an excess of free enterprise, life expectancy -- and even population -- has dropped over the last few years. This need not be so: there are huge easy gains to be made through reductions in fat consumption; inoculation of children; prenatal care for mothers, particularly welfare recipients; a gas tax adequate to pay for roads which would cut mileage driven; and continued progress on the environment. In Russia rather more might be needed. Getting coal mining out of the nineteenth century would be a nice start. -dlj. david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com * 1st 1.11 #3818 * Gingrich, n. abbrev. : "Giving to the rich". From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!ellis!bmdelane From: bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian Manning Delaney) Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: midway.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Reply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago References: <1995Feb20.231356.14259@alw.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 05:52:28 GMT Lines: 60 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1523 sci.life-extension:4073 In article luly@netcom.com (Robert Luly) wrote, among other things: >Hello Brian >I was at that talk in Vegas and I got a copy of the slides from Dr. Coles. > I heard Dr. Regelson say something similar when quoting a friend regarding >DHEA replacement vs: natural reduction of hormone levels. That is maybe this >reduction *extends* life and should not be restored to youthful levels. Exactly my concern. > Regarding the Coles slides I noticed that the 80% to 20% survival slope was >about the same for controls and the test animals. The max survival was also >the same. However *ALL* the CoQ-10 group was shifted to the right by >about 30 %. That looks like a positive effect to me. I'm not sure I follow you here "*ALL* .. shifted.."? Anyway, on a diff. note, the survival curve diagram also shows nearly identical results for folate (not discussed ina the paper). [End of new material.] >Regards >R. Luly > >Brian Manning Delaney (bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote: >: In article , >: Patrick O'Neil wrote: >: > >: > >: >On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Brian Manning Delaney wrote: >: >> I thought this study was quite interesting. CoQ had no effect on max. >: >> life span, but had a fairly significant effect on avg. life span >: >> (experimental animals had about a 20% greater avg. life span). >: >> Autopsies showed that cause of death was essentially the same for both >: >> groups. The effect of CoQ was just to delay the onset of lymphoma. The >: > >: >The CoQ you refer to...is it coenzyme Q? If so, then perhaps the fact >: >that it is utilized in electron transport and ATP generation might help >: >explain greater physical activity (more efficient/proficient electron >: >transport?). If you do not refer to coenzyme Q, then...nevermind. >: > >: >Would you clarify for me? > >: Yes, sorry, coenzyme Q10 is the drug/"nutrient" in question. I think >: it's quite likely indeed that its role in ATP generation explains the >: diff. levels of activity seen between the two groups. But my main >: point was that "youthification" may not always mean a longer life >: span, in part because the symptoms of aging could be protective in >: some way. Ex: some (but not all) studies have shown declining levels >: of CoQ w/age in rats. Maybe the slower metabolism this produces >: actually slows aging (lower consequent rate of free-rad. production, >: etc.). > -- Brian M. Delaney [DO NOT cc: articles to me.] [Wrists: "Leave unambiguous typos."] Note: All statements in this article are in jest; they are not statements of fact. * "Mein Genie ist in meinen Nuestern." -Nietzsche. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!columbus.cis.ohio-state.edu!jj From: jj@columbus.cis.ohio-state.edu (John Josephson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) Date: 3 Mar 1995 18:51:44 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 5 Sender: jj@cis.ohio-state.edu Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: columbus.cis.ohio-state.edu In-reply-to: bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu's message of Fri, 3 Mar 1995 05:47:22 GMT Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1530 sci.life-extension:4093 I'm not especially interested in living long, independently of the quality of life. That is, I'd gladly give up some of the feeble period at the end for some enhanced "youthification" before. .. jj From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!news From: wms@metronet.com (William Stevens) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) Date: 4 Mar 1995 18:13:02 GMT Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc 214/705-2901, login info Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3jaaje$ll7@feenix.metronet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net199.metronet.com Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1537 sci.life-extension:4127 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6 In article , bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian Manning Delaney) says: > >In article jj@columbus.cis.ohio-state.edu (John Josephson) wrote, among other things: >>I'm not especially interested in living long, independently of the >>quality of life. That is, I'd gladly give up some of the feeble >>period at the end for some enhanced "youthification" before. > >But the situation is quite dynamic: Q is whether the extra "feeble" >years carry you to a time where de-feeblification is possible. If the >answer is No -- and the tricky part here is that we just can't answer >the Q yet -- then I agree w/your above statement. > >-- >Brian M. Delaney [DO NOT cc: articles to me.] Wouldn't the two goals, life extension and life quality, be more useful with some symetry (sp?) I agree with John's point. There is not much point in living longer if you do it in pain and feebleness. Not to mention the increased cost to continue those frails years at the end of life. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.camosun.bc.ca!freenet.victoria.bc.ca!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ue700 From: ue700@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Paul Gillies) Subject: CDP-CHOLINE Message-ID: <1995Mar4.165255.21227@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Sender: news@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (News Manager) Organization: Victoria Freenet Association Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:52:55 GMT Lines: 10 "Life Sciences" vol.56,no.9,1995 published an interesting article titled, "Metabolism and Actions of CDP-Choline". The authors felt that the oral administration of CDP-Choline had a variety of beneficial effect in the animals used in the study. Theey were more resistent to hypxia, learning and memory were inproved, cell membranes seemed more resistant to damage and had a "general protective effect". Does anyone know if the same benefits could be derived from choline, phosphatiidylcholine, or DMAE From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msunews!uchinews!ellis!bmdelane From: bmdelane@ellis.uchicago.edu (Brian Manning Delaney) Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: midway.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Reply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago References: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 14:49:25 GMT Lines: 15 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1535 sci.life-extension:4116 In article jj@columbus.cis.ohio-state.edu (John Josephson) wrote, among other things: >I'm not especially interested in living long, independently of the >quality of life. That is, I'd gladly give up some of the feeble >period at the end for some enhanced "youthification" before. But the situation is quite dynamic: Q is whether the extra "feeble" years carry you to a time where de-feeblification is possible. If the answer is No -- and the tricky part here is that we just can't answer the Q yet -- then I agree w/your above statement. -- Brian M. Delaney [DO NOT cc: articles to me.] [Wrists: "Leave unambiguous typos."] Note: All statements in this article are in jest; they are not statements of fact. * "Mein Genie ist in meinen Nuestern." -Nietzsche. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!extro!okx From: okx@extro (Philip Rhoades) Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Message-ID: Followup-To: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au Reply-To: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Organization: Information Services, Sydney University, Sydney, NSW, Australia X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 04:34:35 GMT Lines: 132 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1534 sci.life-extension:4102 sci.cryonics:1732 Peter Merel (pete@extro.su.oz.au) wrote: : okx@extro (Philip Rhoades) writes: : >pete@extro (Peter Merel) writes: : >: the other way is up into a world of peace and riches, control of resources : >: all over the solar system, boundless innovation and experience beyond : >: our wildest imagination. Star Trek seems a dull and stagnant fantasy : >: beside this prospect. : >This is over-optimistic - it assumes that the form of human behaviour that : >has come to dominate the earth (basically greed and fear) will not : >continue. : I think that it is unfair to suggest that greed and fear dominate all human : activities, but I grant that they are very popular motivations and won't go : away soon. However they are not incommensurable with peace and riches. Maybe not - and I'm not unsympathetic to your ideas but they seem more like naive hopes from the view of thousands of years of human history which has been continuous wars of aggression, oppression, slavery, genocide etc etc. Of course there are many examples of great constructions, science & art but these quite frequently have been: built by slave labour, used for mass murder & the province of the rich. : >Even if what you say is correct wrt future technologies, what : >gives you the idea that it will be shared amongst all the world's : >population? : When houses can be built from the equivalent of Jack's magic beans, when : food can be constructed out of thin air, when living space, clean water, : medicine and plentiful energy are available in abundance, the only real : poor will be the politically disenfranchised. I distinctly remember the nuclear industry deliberately lying to the public (with the aim of developing the nuclear weapons industry) by saying things like: "nuclear power will be too cheap to meter", "nuclear energy will create a heaven on earth" etc etc - when people start telling me how good things are _going_ to be, I immediately think: evangelism - for reasons that have probably nothing to do with the general health and well-being of most people. : I don't imagine that all people will be enfranchised, nor that people will : not hoard. Nanotech won't solve our political problems; it can greatly : alleviate their effects. I hope so. : >If history is any indication (that's all we have) then there : >will be a continuing amassing of resources, wealth and power by the few : >and continuing impoverishment of the many. : That's true, but if the technology means that the poor will still be better : off, then the technology is still of benefit to them. Nanotech is a cornucopia : because it permits digital replication of molecular arrangements; we are used : to the benefits of digital replication of information, and we are all familiar : with the nature of the information economy that this has produced; although : it allows developers to limit the use of the products they create, it has also : allowed them to distribute a great many useful products for free. : In other words, and not to be facetious, let them eat GNU. To continue the analogy a bit: it will be interesting to see how long the (good) anarchicly (dis)organised Internet lasts when Bill Gates gets his way with his own variety of it. : >: There is no third path that I can see. : >The third path is: reduction of world population (in the developed world : >because it consumes most of the resources and produces the most pollution : >and in the developing world so it doesn't exacerbate the problem as it : >develops); : I think that this is a desirable course in the short-term; the only : ethical way to do it, I think, is to modify human fertility. Not to : sterilize humanity as some have suggested here, but to reduce its : fertility to manageable levels. We could perhaps modify Patrick : O'Neils' genocide virus to only alter human hormone levels so that no : one would be fertile until the age of 30, and so that no one would be : fertile after the age of 40. Of course the real problem with this is : not how to engineer it, but how to introduce it without getting lynched : by religious fundamentalists ... I think it will have to be a course for the long term but I like your idea - mine was a minute, mechanical (maybe one of your nanotech robots) devices that allows easily reversible vasectomies applied to all males - the flak would also come from people/organisations that regard procreation as a god-given, inalienable right. : >minimise consumption of scarce, non-renewable resources; : >re-cycle everything. : If nanotech is as readily feasible as it seems, very soon we will have no : scarce non-renewable resources. Hmm . . . I will be convinced when it happens. : >Admittedly, this is a fairly unlikely scenario as : >well (I am pessimistic about our ability to survive on the planet for to : >much longer). : Why? Most biologists know that human species survival (in any reasonable quality) depends on a vast array of other species and their inter- relationships - these other species are currently being elliminated (by humans) at a ferocious rate - they CAN'T be restored by any amount of nanotech. Human survival depends on relative simple measures (as I've prevously outlined) NOT hitech patches. : >They are not engineering problems but sociological/behavioural problems. : >New, spacey technology is not going to cure the fundamental problems of : >equity, distribution etc. : Look at the information economy that exists now, and imagine what the world : will be like when the material economy takes the same form. That doesn't solve : all our problems of course, but it can solve any problem that is based on : resource scarcity - which is one hell of a lot of problems, imho. Maybe it will happen like that but my experience has been that you can't go far wrong by being a sceptical pessimist - bit sad really - but that doesn't mean that I have given up the good fight. Phil. -- Philip Rhoades Pricom Pty Limited E-mail: okx@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Phone: +61-2-963-2246 Fax: +61-2-569-5329 S-mail: GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Names of known ancestors (mostly from the UK): ADAMSON BAILEY CHIGWIDDEN CHURCH DAVIES HENDERSON KEOUGH LAW MAY (MAI-Poznan) McMAHON OLIVER PEGUS RANKIN SIMMONS SMITH SOLLOWAY TUCKEY TUNKS WHITTET From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!darwin.sura.net!nih-csl!helix!hatanpaa From: hatanpaa@helix (Kimmo Hatanpaa) Subject: Re: stop the pop science-plz Message-ID: <1995Mar4.020938.12733@alw.nih.gov> Sender: postman@alw.nih.gov (AMDS Postmaster) Nntp-Posting-Host: helix.nih.gov Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 02:09:38 GMT Lines: 10 Scott Selby (Med Heme) (selby@lenti.med.umn.edu) wrote: : This newsgroup is getting as bad as Time as far as it's depth of probing : into actual questions of value to the scientific community. Please stop : and leave the discussion to people who might actually use this group for : communicating with research colleagues. Why don't you start the kind of discussion you want and post something of value to the scientific community. Kimmo Hatanpaa, M.D. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!news.cc.utah.edu!corona!patrick From: Patrick O'Neil Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Coles and Harris' CoQ10 Study (was Re: A4M Discussion) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 18:06:39 -0700 Organization: University Of Utah Computer Center Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: corona.med.utah.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1532 sci.life-extension:4095 On 3 Mar 1995, John Josephson wrote: > I'm not especially interested in living long, independently of the > quality of life. That is, I'd gladly give up some of the feeble > period at the end for some enhanced "youthification" before. > Now THIS sentiment warms my heart and is nice to see. It doesn't call for potential devestating effects from willy-nilly experimentation or alteration. It isn't especially selfish. It is a clean, solid desire and goal. Patrick From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Mar 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Vitality Retained W/ 'Immortality' Date: 3 Mar 1995 17:07:06 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 23 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net The concept is that, with perpetuation of cell division, aging stops. In other words, we get old because the cells gradually stop reproducing. This is thought to be a congenital condition programmed by DNA. With breakthrough in genetic research, the program can be changed so that the cells can reproduce indefinitely like cancer cells do. Cancer cells have the telomerase enzyme that allows perpetuation. If telomerase can be manipulated into healthy cells, we might get a few hundred extra years. So goes today's concept. Even a remote possibility gives motivation to drive even more safely than previously and to take care of the body we have. On 3 Mar 1995, John Josephson wrote: > I'm not especially interested in living long, independently of the > quality of life. That is, I'd gladly give up some of the feeble > period at the end for some enhanced "youthification" before. > > .. jj > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Mar 04 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!hal.COM!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!news.sasknet.sk.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!gpu!rdelajar From: rdelajar@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Rodrigo Delajara) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering Followup-To: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.cryonics Date: 5 Mar 1995 04:38:24 GMT Organization: University of Alberta Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3jbf80$7dc@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: gpu.srv.ualberta.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1538 sci.life-extension:4139 sci.cryonics:1738 I thought it would be fun to put this idea into the mix: Wouldn't it be an effective, world-saving, or at least a world-improving action to genetically engineer future humans with better frontal lobes? If I remember correctly, the frontal lobes are where the feelings of compassion, justice, and general future-planning are located. Human evolution has given us better frontal lobes than all other animals (except dolphins and whales?) and this allows us to have our highly cooperative social structures and family units. There are distinct evolutionary advantages to selflessness and future-planning. But as history and the present clearly shows, well developed frontal-lobes are not an universal human trait (eg. some mammals such as dogs seem to have better developed frontal lobes than Hitler, ditto-heads ;) etc.) Also, history shows that simple environmental efforts to change things have failed (eg. Communism.) Shouldn't genetic engineering be used to solve this problem? We know next to nothing about brain structure and even less about genetic coding of brain structure and so many problems like genetic life extension may therefore be solved even before this one. Shouldn't we get cracking on this problem soon so that it will help to alleviate the problems that life extension and normal overpopulation will cause? What do you think? Rodrigo de la Jara rdelajar@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Mar 04 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: grokelly@delphi.com Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Scholarly paper unites theories of aging w/electrochemistry Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 01:18:05 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 60 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com The paper "Biology, Bioelectricity, and the Nervous System" deals with the connections and interrelatedness of neurophysiology, neurobiology, and biochemistry with electrodynamics. It posits the same electrodynamics are operant at the cell's nucleus as the level of the cell's so-called 'behavior', or the systemic level dealing with the behavior of the organism that is composed of the cells. In presenting this model the paper discusses the flaws in the prevalent model, that of the ionic channel school of Eccles, Hodgkin, and Huxley as presented by Bertil Hille (Ionic Channels of Excitable Membrane) and John Koester (Principles of Neural Science) which seeks to account for neuronal functioning in terms of electricity rather than electrochemistry. The paper suggests, by its proposed model, a new treatment involving 'galvanic revivification' to treat chronic and degenerative disorders. The treatment does this by acting upon cellular chemistry through electrolytically triggered changes similar to those affected by the nervous system. The paper presents a short history of electromedicine and understanding of the phenomenon of electricity going back as far as the 18th century, and proffers a vision of the nervous system that is based on considerations of chemistry and polarity. This vision is concordant with current understanding of the origins of cellular life, paleobiology, and evolutionary theory. Yet is highly critical of clinical neurology which, being founded on the ionic channel school's model, is noticeably deficient in effective treatment for any neuromuscular, nervous, or psychiatric disorder. With regard to paleobiology, the paper is organized as a criticism of the genetic gradualism of Ernst Mayr and its failure to take into consideration the systemic changes manifested by increased numbers of emergent nerve terminals found on creatures as one moves out onto the tree of life. For Mayr chemistry does not favor life's origins which are thought of as requiring unique and rare conditions. For the electro-organic chemist, given the early atmospheric conditons of the earth, the orgins of life are a matter of course, and the evolution of that life from prokaryotes to eukaryotes to multi-celled organisms possessing the power of locomotion and nervous systems is just the result of building on the same basic electrochemistry of the cell. The paper suggests that the aging and deterioration of the cell, as the aging and degeneration of the cellular organism, are also related in this way; and that by restoring the cell and reversing systemic degradation through electrolytic intervention one can effectively stop and reverse the aging process. Currently there are two general schools of thought with regard to aging. One school would have it that aging is a result of genetic programming; the other insists that it is the result of systemic deterioration. The paper, by relating intracellular chemistry and systemic functioning to electrochemistry, suggests that introducing a negative electrical charge at the site of nerve terminal synapses acts to simulate strong CNS functioning (which has a powerful restorative effect post-synaptically), and to penetrate the nervous system antidromically (restoring and maintaing cell membrane voltages for prolonged cell nucleus functioning, including genetic replication) The paper is 60 pages long in E-mail format, that is, without italics, underlining or font changes, super or subscripts. This does not affect the message. I am looking for those who might be interested to discuss the ideas therein presented. E-mail Dr. Galvano at grokelly @delphi.com for a copy. Dr. Galvano From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Mar 04 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!beep!walshb From: walshb@beep.roadrunner.com (Bob Walsh) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Young/Old Cells, What Changes? Date: 5 Mar 1995 17:58:52 GMT Organization: The Santa Fe Institute Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3jcu4s$ppo@tierra.santafe.edu> References: <3jc3nu$fqg@www.uno.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: beep.roadrunner.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] kgpl@uno.edu wrote: : ... let's say you take a skin (or whatever) cell from a young : rat (or human) then wait a few years and take another from the same : subject. When you put the two cells under a microscope, or do other : similarly informative biology things with it, what's the difference? : Is ageing something that takes place at the cellular level all over : your body, or are there a small number of localized changes that throw : everything out of kilter? For example, if a young person needs an organ : replacement, and gets a doner organ from an old person, does the organ : "become young" again in the young person, or does it stay old and not : last very long? And is this true of every kind of organ replacement? : .... : : Kevin Or, more specifically, do the follicle cells for a grey hair have the same DNA as the follicle cells for a normally pigmented hair taken from the same individual on the same day? Bob Walsh (walshb@alumni.caltech.edu) Santa Fe, NM, USA (505) 263-1875 FAX: (505) 983-5868 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Mar 04 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Scientific Explanations For Non-Scientific Readers Date: 5 Mar 1995 04:23:33 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 33 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3jc3nu$fqg@www.uno.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Please fwd any explanations to me also. (see msg below) Brief explanations to scientific and popular ageing theories would be educational for some of the interested readers of this listgroup. Put me on the list to get private postings of educational nature. A FAQ line would eliminate some repetitious postings here. On 5 Mar 1995 kgpl@uno.edu wrote: > I just looked in on this group. A lot of it is very interesting, though > there is a bit too much "social consequences of ageing" and not enough > "molecular biology of ageing" for my taste. Still... I want to throw > out a stupid question here. Assuming that this sort of thing has ever > been done, let's say you take a skin (or whatever) cell from a young > rat (or human) then wait a few years and take another from the same > subject. When you put the two cells under a microscope, or do other > similarly informative biology things with it, what's the difference? > Is ageing something that takes place at the cellular level all over > your body, or are there a small number of localized changes that throw > everything out of kilter? For example, if a young person needs an organ > replacement, and gets a doner organ from an old person, does the organ > "become young" again in the young person, or does it stay old and not > last very long? And is this true of every kind of organ replacement? > Best to stop here. I can think up a lot of questions like this, but I'm > already annoying enough as it is. No reason to push it. :0 > > Whoops! Make that emoticon a ":)", My fingers are getting old and > I don't type so good anymore. > > Kevin > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Mar 04 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!darwin.sura.net!www.uno.edu!uno.edu!KGPL From: kgpl@uno.edu Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Young/Old Cells, What Changes? Date: 5 Mar 1995 10:28:14 GMT Organization: University of New Orleans Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3jc3nu$fqg@www.uno.edu> Reply-To: kgpl@uno.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: jazz.ucc.uno.edu I just looked in on this group. A lot of it is very interesting, though there is a bit too much "social consequences of ageing" and not enough "molecular biology of ageing" for my taste. Still... I want to throw out a stupid question here. Assuming that this sort of thing has ever been done, let's say you take a skin (or whatever) cell from a young rat (or human) then wait a few years and take another from the same subject. When you put the two cells under a microscope, or do other similarly informative biology things with it, what's the difference? Is ageing something that takes place at the cellular level all over your body, or are there a small number of localized changes that throw everything out of kilter? For example, if a young person needs an organ replacement, and gets a doner organ from an old person, does the organ "become young" again in the young person, or does it stay old and not last very long? And is this true of every kind of organ replacement? Best to stop here. I can think up a lot of questions like this, but I'm already annoying enough as it is. No reason to push it. :0 Whoops! Make that emoticon a ":)", My fingers are getting old and I don't type so good anymore. Kevin From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!dptspd!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab341 From: ab341@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Nadia Diakun-Thibault) Subject: Various Listservers - Aging Message-ID: Sender: ab341@freenet3.carleton.ca (Nadia Diakun-Thibault) Reply-To: ab341@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Nadia Diakun-Thibault) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet References: <3j7dl4$jan@classic.iinet.com.au> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 23:45:32 GMT Lines: 173 This may be of interest: INTERNET LIST OF LISTSERVERS ON AGING AGELIS-L The Alliance of Gerontology/Geriatrics Educators, Librarians, and Information Specialists is a professional forum to identify resources in gerontology and geriatrics. Its purpose is to facilitate access to literature, databases, networks, and other resources for professionals. To subscribe to the list, send this e-mail message: To: majordomo@sfu.ca Subject: [leave blank] Message: subscribe agelis-l AGENET AGENET is an electronic bulletin board and e-mail system maintained by the National Association of State Units on Aging. One can gain access to this service with a computer and modem (it isn't on the Internet). AGENET has four database. Three bibliographic databases provide information about articles on information and referral (I&R), Administration on Aging products, and National Eldercare Center products. A fourth database provides names and addresses of key personnel in I&R, state units on aging, leadership council organizations, and congressional staff. To connect to AGENET, call (via your modem), 800-989-2243 (8 bits and 1 stop bit). You will be asked to register for the bulletin board by providing your name and password. Menus will guide you through your session. AGING-L The Researchers in Population Aging Computer Conference is for individuals interested in the demography of aging. To subscribe, send a message: To: listserv@brownvm.bitnet Subject: [leave blank] Message: subscribe aging-l john jones [first & last name] ALZHEIMER Alzheimer is an e-mail discussion group for patients, professional and family caregivers, researchers, public policy makers, students, and anyone with an interest in Alzheimer's or related dementing disorders in older adults. It is intended to provide an opportunity to share questions, answers, suggestions, and tips. To subscribe to the list, send this e-mail message: To: majordomo@wubios.wustl.edu Subject: [leave blank] Message: subscribe alzheimer EUTHANASIA/ASSISTED SUICIDE Information on the Special Senate Committee on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide (Canada) can be found on National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario. To use this gopher, use your local telnet program and connect to: freenet.carleton.ca. Login: guest Your choice: go senate GERINET Geriatric Health Care Discussion Group (GERINET) is an electronic discussion group where people interested in aging and health care can pose questions and connect with others in the same interest areas. Because aging is an interdisciplinary field, GERINET has quite a diverse readership. To sign on, send an e-mail message: To: listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu [bitnet users sent to: listserv@ubvm.bitnet] Re: [leave blank] Message: subscribe gerinet john_jones [your first and last name] GERIATRIC-NEUROPSYCHIATRY New electronic conference, geriatric-neuropsychiatry, has been started as part of InterPsych, the international consortium of resources in psychiatry and abnormal psychology. This conference has been set up to encourage an exchange of ideas, opinions, and information among persons concerned with neurobehavioral disorders in middle-aged and elderly adults. For purposes of this discussion, 'neurobehavioral disorders' are defined as medical or neurologic disorders leading to changes in cognition, mood, perception or behavior. Although this list is primarily intended for clinicians, input from caregivers, basic scientists and other concerned individuals is welcomed. To: Majordomo@avocado.pc.helsinki.fi Re: [leave blank] Message: subscribe geriatric-neuropsychiatry HEALTHMGMT Health Care Management and Administration (HEALTHMGMT) is a discussion group for people who are interested in health care and health service organizations. To sign on, send an e-mail message: To: listserv@ursus.jun.alaska.edu Re: subscribe HEALTHMGMT [your name, e.g. jane doe] HUMAGE-L Humanistic Aspects of Aging was established by the Humanities and Arts Committee of the Gerontological Society of America. Gerontologists exchange research information as well as discuss course curricula, ethical issues, and government policy on aging. To subscribe to the list, send this e-mail message: To: listserv@asuacad.bitnet Subject: [leave blank] Message: subscribe humage-l [first & last name] IEEIR The International Exchange of Experts and Information in Rehabilitation is a project of the National Institute for Disability and Rehabilitation Research. Staff developed a gopher (a database) of information about rehabilitation projects. The gopher is at: ieeir.unh.edu. Contact your Internet technical support for assistance on gaining access to a gopher. IHP-NET [formerly PNN-L] The International Network for Interfaith Health Practices subsumed the Parish Nursing Network and is an e- mail list for dialogue and resource sharing among persons of all faith traditions regarding the professional practice of health promotion, prevention, and education, integrated with spirituality of the particular faith community within which that practice is exercised. This list welcomes both nurses and non-nurse practioners, health ministers, clergy, and others interested in religion and health. To subscribe to the list, send the message below: To: majordomo@interaccess.com Subject: [leave blank] Message: subscribe IHP-NET [your internet address, e.g. Jane Doe] WHCA95-L The White House Conference on Aging has an e-mail address and electronic discussion group. To keep up on the latest news on the conference and its affiliated activities, send a message to: WHCA95- L@list.nih.gov. If you include your address, you will be put on the mailing list for The White House Conference on Aging Newsletter which will be delivered to you by "snail mail." To subscribe to the discussion group and receive regular updates to upcoming conferences via e-mail, send a message: To: listserv@listserv.net Message: subscribe whca95-l [first & last name] Nadia Diakun-Thibault __o "To live is so startling ab341@Freenet.Carleton.CA `\<, it leaves little time Oxford Mills, Ontario (*)/'(*) for anything else." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Emily Dickinson (1830-1886) :: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario Information Provider for Alzheimer Society of Ottawa-Carleton go alz Council on Aging for Lanark, Leeds and Grenville go aging telnet freenet.carleton.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing From: John@longevb.demon.co.uk (John de Rivaz) Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk!John Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering References: <60.649.4045.0N1D307C@canrem.com> Organization: Myorganisation Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Lines: 34 X-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 07:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <762338090wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article: <60.649.4045.0N1D307C@canrem.com> david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (David Lloyd-Jones) writes: > In Russia, which suffers from an excess of free enterprise, life > expectancy -- and even population -- has dropped over the last few > years. I have posted a response to sci.life-extension From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Stop The Research: #13 Feeble Theory (fwd) Date: 5 Mar 1995 19:20:45 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 17 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Rational or not, the following theory is subscribed to by millions of voters who have influence on congressional decision makers. 'Advances in immortality research may launch us into an extra 100 years of living feeble, invalid, comatose lives. Therefore, why extend life?' This theory of resistance is remarkedly similar to: #7 150 Year Old Skin Theory and #11 150 Year Old Won't Cut It In The Disco's It is important, however, to discuss this system of logic. Creative communication with this belief/attitude is imperative. Dismissing several million voters is questionable. The challenge is present for proponents of life extension. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Stop The Research: #17 Illusion Theory Date: 5 Mar 1995 19:08:29 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 19 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Rational or not, the following theory is subscribed to by millions of voters who have influence on congressional decision makers. A spokesperson for a certain religious group explained that there is no need to spend money on 'immortality' research, or longevity, or life extension, or any other medical treatments for any physiological effects at all. 'Mortality and material are not real to begin with. We are experiencing an illusion which is separation from God. In other words, our bodies and our automobiles are only illusions. Physical birth, death, activities, emotions, events don't exist. Therefore it is pointless to discuss research for health.' It is not pointless, however, to discuss this system of logic. Creative communication with this belief/attitude is imperative. Dismissing several million voters is questionable. The challenge is present for proponents of life extension. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing From: John@longevb.demon.co.uk (John de Rivaz) Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk!John Subject: Re: Attitudes to life extension via genetic engineering References: Organization: Myorganisation Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Lines: 54 X-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 07:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <574287397wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article: Peter Merel writes: > I think that this is a desirable course in the short-term; the only > ethical way to do it, I think, is to modify human fertility. Not to > sterilize humanity as some have suggested here, but to reduce its > fertility to manageable levels. We could perhaps modify Patrick > O'Neils' genocide virus to only alter human hormone levels so that no > one would be fertile until the age of 30, and so that no one would be > fertile after the age of 40. Of course the real problem with this is > not how to engineer it, but how to introduce it without getting lynched > by religious fundamentalists ... I have posted a response in sci.life-extension -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing From: John@longevb.demon.co.uk (John de Rivaz) Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk!John Subject: Re: Aging Cure and Population Stability References: <558880895wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Organization: Myorganisation Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Lines: 62 X-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 07:50:44 +0000 Message-ID: <570828527wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article: coucher@oregon.cray.com (Robert Coucher) writes: > > John, > > I'm no expert on Chaos Theory, but I am somewhat acquainted with it...I've > never seen any element of same which leads to your conclusion > below...Could you please provide specific references within this body of > theory (authors, biblo, formulae, etc.) which support this interesting > conclusion...How did you come up with this assertion, please? I have posted a reply in sci-life-extension -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Mar 05 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watserv3.uwaterloo.ca!mdungrin From: mdungrin@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Mark Ungrin) Subject: basic info Message-ID: Sender: news@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: sciborg.uwaterloo.ca Organization: University of Waterloo Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 23:28:53 GMT Lines: 39 I just read a couple of postings here from people with basic questions about ageing I am interested in ageing research, but, at least as an undergrad, information about current molecular biological - type theories about ageing is quite scarce my university only has one course on ageing, and it's being taught for arts students who need a science credit, on a sort of "ageing is what happens when you get old" level I am interested in any responses to the questions asked in the two recent postings, particularly responses from people doing current research, and I also have a few wonderings of my own: for someone who's interested in this field, where's a good place to do graduate work? Do you think getting an MD (vs a PhD) is a good idea, if I am mainly interested in the molecular biology? Is there a good university-text-book like reference out there for ageing research? What are the available opportunities for undergraduate internships? Thanks for your time Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ungrin Phone: (519) 747 - 5971 3A Honours Biochemistry Mail: P.O. Box 1131 University of Waterloo Deep River, Ont. Canada Canada, K0J 1P0 Email: mdungrin@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca URL: http://sciborg.uwaterloo.ca/~mdungrin/home.html -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ungrin Phone: (519) 747 - 5971 3A Honours Biochemistry Mail: P.O. Box 1131 University of Waterloo Deep River, Ont. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Mar 06 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!luly From: luly@netcom.com (Robert Luly) Subject: Re: papers on telomerase? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 17:17:56 GMT Lines: 17 Sender: luly@netcom17.netcom.com orbach@odie.ee.wits.ac.za wrote: : Hi: : I am looking for papers on the action of telomerase and ageing. Could anyone : perhaps give me the names of some examples of such papers. : Thanks a lot : Tamir Hello Tamir I found 2 good articles in sci.life-extension, subject: 2 telomerase articles These articles were from Science vol. 265, Sept. 16, 1994. Title "Chromosome Ends Catch Fire", & from Science vol. 266, Oct. 21, 1994. Title "Chromosome End Games". Regards R. Luly From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Mar 06 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: RE: ATHEROSCLEROSIS - IS From: david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (David Lloyd-Jones) Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!portnoy!canrem.com!david.lloyd-jones Distribution: world Message-ID: <60.665.4045.0N1D3953@canrem.com> References: References: <3j1jmf$1ukp@tequesta.gate.net> On 1 Mar 1995, Chris421 wrote: > Hold on there. The population trend (unbridled escalation) does put > humanity in an awkward position. But before anyone starts murdering > billions consider this. Instead of engineering a virus that fills the > graveyards, how bout targeting the genital tract. If such a facility Reversible contraceptive innoculations and reversible vasectomies are in the make. That will reduce the # of pregnancies that are unwanted. It is reported that at least 1/2 of all pg's are not planned or wanted. > exists where by Red Deathes can be conjured up in 30 minutes or less, > surely it could spare a few extra computer cycles to produce a kinder, > gentler strain to decimate humankind (or at least future HK). A global > sterilization...Imbued with a great freedom--an un-legacy if you will, > allowing yet another bio-anomaly (that had it coming) to be swept up under > the mat of evolution??? Err..maybe not, but imagine all the wondrous > exercises in & of futility :) > > Perry E. Metzger (perry@snark.imsi.com) wrote: > > : In article Patrick O'Neil writes: > > : >> Drexler's ideas suggest a future of boundless wealth, opportunity and > : >> adventure, not for a few billion, but for trillions. Drexler's science > > : >I know of his fantasies. > > : Fantasies? I'm afraid that you don't seem to have a rational viewpoint > : here. Drexler's work is, sorry to say for you, a reality. STMs have > : already been used to nanoposition individual atoms. Genetic > : engineering already produces perfect macromolecules to nearly to > : specification. One or the other of these technologies will lead us to > : nanotech within fifty years at most. However, I find the fact that you > : are an evil individual on a Hitlerian scale far more disturbing than > : your ignorance. You said: > > : >I would just as soon engineer a virus strain that is aerosol > : >transmissible, perhaps a hemmorhagic flu, in order to correct the > : >population bomb downward towards the 2 to 3 billion mark than live in > : >utter muck with trillions. > > : How dare you plot the deaths of billions of people? You are the lowest > : form of scum on the planet. Does the suffering and murder of literally > : billions of people not even phase you? Or are you simply one of those > : disgusting lefty amoralists that thinks that mass murder is okay so > : long as its for the good of the cause -- Pol Pot being one of your > : fellow travelers. > > : I assure you that were I in the room with you right now, and if I > : thought that you were seriously able to carry out your threat, I would > : have no hesitation whatsoever about killing you in self defense. I do > : not care to see the deaths or suffering of all those I hold dear so > : that a creature like you can feel good about the planet being empty. > > : -- > : Perry Metzger perry@imsi.com > : -- > : "Just another selfish, me first kind of guy." > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Mar 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Richard L. Rossi <73763.70@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Young/Old Cells, What Changes? Date: 6 Mar 1995 19:56:30 GMT Organization: via CompuServe Information Service Lines: 2 Message-ID: <3jfpde$llu$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> References: <3jc3nu$fqg@www.uno.edu> Excellent question(s)! How can we continue on this subject and can we get some professionals in on it? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Mar 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!news.ttu.edu!aurora.LaTech.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!caesar.wits.ac.za!genmin77.ee.wits.ac.za!orbach From: orbach@odie.ee.wits.ac.za Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: papers on telomerase? Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 11:57:07 GMT Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Novell Users). Lines: 9 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: genmin77.ee.wits.ac.za Hi: I am looking for papers on the action of telomerase and ageing. Could anyone perhaps give me the names of some examples of such papers. Thanks a lot Tamir From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Mar 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!psgrain!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!library.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!usenet From: Flint Smith Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: RE: ATHEROSCLEROSIS - IS Date: 7 Mar 1995 22:51:49 GMT Organization: University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3jio25$gjt@saba.info.ucla.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: holmes.mbi.ucla.edu david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (David Lloyd-Jones) wrote: > > > You guys in the States look after the Amazon, OK? > How about paving it? A little macadam should take care of any pesky viruses. :( Flint From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Mar 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Telomerase Source Doc's Date: 8 Mar 1995 00:57:56 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 25 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net See also: Science 12/23/94 on Univ Texas SMC in Dallas and Geron Corp; Science News 5/14/94; Longevity 4/94; Scientific American 7/94; US News & WR 4/25/94; Discovery 2/93; Newsweek 4/25/94; NY Times.... On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Robert Luly wrote: > orbach@odie.ee.wits.ac.za wrote: > : Hi: > > : I am looking for papers on the action of telomerase and ageing. Could anyone > : perhaps give me the names of some examples of such papers. > > : Thanks a lot > > : Tamir > > Hello Tamir > I found 2 good articles in sci.life-extension, subject: 2 telomerase articles > These articles were from Science vol. 265, Sept. 16, 1994. Title "Chromosome > Ends Catch Fire", & from Science vol. 266, Oct. 21, 1994. Title "Chromosome > End Games". > Regards > R. Luly > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Mar 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: sforsgren@aol.com (SForsgren) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Expensive Urine? Date: 8 Mar 1995 13:02:03 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 7 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <3jkrer$jr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: sforsgren@aol.com (SForsgren) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I have often wondered what makes urine turn yellow when taking mega-doses of vitamin supplements. Are all vitamins candidates for turning urine yellow or only specific ones? My friend at work also notices variations in urine color by day. Does this indicate that some days she was more deficient (in reference to vitamins only - ha ) than others? Thanks. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Mar 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: prange@ix.netcom.com (John Prange) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Expensive Urine? Date: 8 Mar 1995 22:29:31 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 33 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3jlb4b$89p@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <3jkrer$jr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-stl1-12.ix.netcom.com In <3jkrer$jr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> sforsgren@aol.com (SForsgren) writes: > >I have often wondered what makes urine turn yellow when taking mega-doses >of vitamin supplements. Are all vitamins candidates for turning urine >yellow or only specific ones? My friend at work also notices variations >in urine color by day. Does this indicate that some days she was more >deficient (in reference to vitamins only - ha ) than others? > >Thanks. > ------------------ Vitamin B-2 (riboflavin) is the one. It can in heavy doses turn the urine almost an orange. When taken in excess you excrete what your body does not use. It is also a clear sign that your money is going down the toilet . RDA is 1.7 mg. Check out your Multi-vitamin and see how much B-2 is going down the toilet . 17 mg is 1,000% of RDA and I have seen some as high as 100 mg in some preparations. It seems to be harmless .....but expensive. I decided to answer this question publicly rather than e-mail because it is my opinion that this question and answer would be better served is the groups below rather than here. misc.health.alternative sci.med.nutrition sci.life-extention Thanks From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!not-for-mail From: draye@gena.ucl.ac.be (Xavier DRAYE) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: European Congress of Gerontology? Date: 9 Mar 1995 08:43:33 -0000 Lines: 18 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <3jmf3l$pdk@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> X-Sender: draye@sci1.sri.ucl.ac.be Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.uk Does anyone have information about a (supposed to exist) european congress of gerontology which would be held in September 1995 in Amsterdam (Holland)? Many Thanks. Xavier DRAYE ,,, (o o) ___________________________oOO__(_)__OOo_______________________________ Unite de Genetique Tel: (32) 10 473671 Universite catholique de Louvain Fax: (32) 10 473031 Croix du Sud 2/14 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium E-mail: draye@gena.ucl.ac.be _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news.cc.utah.edu!corona!patrick From: Patrick O'Neil Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Expensive Urine? Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 22:32:10 -0700 Organization: University Of Utah Computer Center Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3jkrer$jr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: corona.med.utah.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <3jkrer$jr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> On 8 Mar 1995, SForsgren wrote: > I have often wondered what makes urine turn yellow when taking mega-doses > of vitamin supplements. Are all vitamins candidates for turning urine > yellow or only specific ones? My friend at work also notices variations > in urine color by day. Does this indicate that some days she was more > deficient (in reference to vitamins only - ha ) than others? Urine coloration is not merely an indicator of vitamin deficiency (or oversufeciency). Vitamin B complexes are really good at urine coloration: they are water soluble and the excess is peed away - excess vitamin C is colorless when you pass it through the bladder. In the military, an instruction from survival school is to keep an eye on the color of your urine. The darker it is, the more dehydrated you are (and the more pungent the scent). Your friend may simply not be drinking enough water throughout the day so that urine color varies with hydration. Patrick From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!beep!walshb From: walshb@beep.roadrunner.com (Bob Walsh) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Young/Old Cells, What Changes? Date: 9 Mar 1995 03:54:32 GMT Organization: The Santa Fe Institute Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3jlu5o$gth@tierra.santafe.edu> References: <3jc3nu$fqg@www.uno.edu> <3jcu4s$ppo@tierra.santafe.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: beep.roadrunner.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Bob Walsh (walshb@beep.roadrunner.com) wrote: : ... do the follicle cells for a grey hair have the : same DNA as the follicle cells for a normally pigmented hair taken : from the same individual on the same day? Following up on my own question: "Hair pigment is made by melanocytes at the base of the hair follicle .... Gray or white hair results from a decrease in melanin production (mediated by delayed-action genes) and the replacement of melanin by air bubbles in the hair shaft." Elaine N. Marieb, Human Anatomy and Physiology, 1992. No futher discussion or references given there on "delayed-action genes." Bob Walsh (walshb@alumni.caltech.edu) Santa Fe, NM, USA (505) 263-1875 FAX: (505) 983-5868 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FS2.SCG.MAN.AC.UK!IDAVIES From: IDAVIES@FS2.SCG.MAN.AC.UK (Dr Ioan Davies) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: III European Congress of Gerontology Date: 9 Mar 1995 01:34:53 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 20 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <228FB9D656C@fs2.scg.man.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net In response to Xavier Draye's request for information: III European Congress of Gerontology will be held in Amsterdam on the 30th August to 2 September 1995. The second announcement was mailed in November 1994 (I think) Secretariat: Secretariat III European Congress of Gerontology c/o Amsterdam RAI-OBA Europaplein 1078 GZ AMSTERDAM PO BOX 77777 1070 MS AMSTERDAM The Netherlands Tel: +31 205491212 Fax: +31 206464469 Ioan Davies PhD Telephone: +44 (0)161 275 5252 FAX: +44 (0)161 275 5363 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Mar 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: callmeec@aol.com (CallmeEC) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Kombucha - Tonic or Tragedy? Date: 9 Mar 1995 00:25:42 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 8 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <3jm3gm$1id@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: callmeec@aol.com (CallmeEC) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I have heard rumors that Kombucha Fungus Drink is actually harmful. Can anyone validate this? I personally have found it to have a wonderul effect. Ernest Cohen CallmeEC@aol.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Mar 09 22:00:00 1995 N