From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 01 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!STJOHNS.EDU!YPRLBIO From: YPRLBIO@STJOHNS.EDU ("LOCKSHIN, RICHARD A") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: NYC Area Cell Death Club Date: 2 May 1995 09:07:12 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 18 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <02MAY95.13043332.0041.MUSIC@SJUMUSIC> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net NYC Area Cell Death Club (Death Poets' Society) Next meeting: Wednesday May 31, 1995 7-8:30 PM Rockefeller University, 1230 York Ave., Tower Bldg Room 301 Free Parking after 5PM at 66th St. & York Ave (Please carpool as parking space is limited Speakers: 1. Yuri Lazebnik, Cold Spring Harbor, Cell Death in the cell free system 2. Robert Chow NYU Skirball), FGF suppresses apoptosis and induces differentiation of fiber cells in the mouse lens To help plan for pizza call lab of Dr. Zahra Zakeri, 718: 997-3429 and let them know the number coming for pizza, talk, and if you need parking. Please RSVP by 5/29/95. Organizers: Zahra Zakeri, Fax 718: 997-3445 Phone 718: 997-3417 Raymond Birge: Fax 212 327-7943; Phone 212: 327-7412 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 01 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: ageing Date: 2 May 1995 16:26:43 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 15 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Hi, my name is Dmitri Chamchad , I'm doctor of medicine. I had working several years on the problem of aging. I searched especially aging of spermatogenic cells in mail gonads, comparison between Youngest and oldest models. I search intercellular interaction between Leudig cells, Sertolly cells and spermatogenic layer. I did find conformity to natural laws in aging process of male gonads, and as result - method of treatment male sterility syndrome. I'd like to be member of Aging newsgroup. How I can do it? How I can use net find information and articles? Yours truly D. Chamchad tel. (416)-398-5947 e-mail: bk772@freenet.toronto.on.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 01 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!network.ucsd.edu!licr-user003.ucsd.edu!user From: obogler@ucsd.edu (Oliver Bogler) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: terminology Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 11:46:40 -0700 Organization: Ludwig Institute Lines: 54 Distribution: bionet Message-ID: References: <3no34u$hk9@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: licr-user003.ucsd.edu In article <3no34u$hk9@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>, wrote: > *Would it not be better to use neutral terms for the stages in cell cultures > *like a) dividing, b) quiescent, c) nondividing, and d) perpetually dividing, > *or any other set of terms that just describes the facts. > Yes indeed it would be better, and in fact it is so. Here they are: dividing: the cell cycles to produce daughter cells quiescent: the cell is not currently dividing, but has the capacity to do so when stimulated with appropriate growth factors. (G0 of cell cycle) non-dividing: same as quiescent - not used often senescent: the cell is in a normally irreversible form of G0 where it will not divide no matter what stimulants are applied. It is however viable, and can remain so for some time. apoptotic: the cell is undergoing programmed cell death, i.e. has stopped dividing *and* is breaking apart. necrotic: the cell is dying due to extrinsice factors mortal: the cell can divide for a limit period of time (with periods of quiescence possible) at the end of which it spontaneously enters senescence and/or apoptosis. immortal: the cell never undergoes senescence or apoptosis spontaneously (note: it could be quiescent) transformed: in addition to being immortal the cell now exhibits other hallmarks of tumor cells. These are the definitions of the common terms used by people working in the field. It has to be understood that some of the same words are used by laypeople to mean different things. This is common in English, I'm afraid. I hope I have helped in clarifying this difficult area. As to the other point in the previous post: bacteria, as individual cells may only live a few days/hours/minutes, but what happens at the end? They divide. Of course I'm assuming that the cells are maintained in ideal circumstances - we are discussing the potential of cells to divide, not what happens to them if you leave them to exhaust the nutrients on your petri dish in the fridge. If you restreaked a colony on a agar plate every day, I bet you the bugs would outlive you. The same is true of immortal cells - they'll keep growing if maintained in optimum conditions. Oliver -- Oliver Bogler obogler@ucsd.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 01 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!yuqian From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman) Newsgroups: bionet.metabolic-reg,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: New Dedicated Bio-tech/science/chem BBS Message-ID: <1995May2.124024.10896@bvc.edu> Date: 2 May 95 12:40:24 CDT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 27 Xref: biosci bionet.metabolic-reg:466 bionet.molbio.ageing:1746 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% A NEW BBS IS ONLINE AND NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO HELP IT PROSPER The IDT Online Information System is now up and running and needs intelligent users such as yourselves. Anyone interested in Chemistry or Biology or any twist of the two is more than welcome. If you are a user of Oligonucleotides, there is an online order system that allows you to place your order directly into the production facility for 48 hour turnaround. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE FOR USAGE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A CUSTOMER TO USE THE SYSTEM Just a sample of some of the discussion forums: Parsitology Classifieds Employment Chemical Engineering Computer Software Biochemistry Programming Molecular Medicine Genetics Organic Chemistry Oligo Design Scientific Humor BioPhysics Cell Biology Internet Topics Biomed Engineering Late Breaking News Immunology NeuroScience Suggestions The system is in place, and we are looking for good users, and a few Forum Moderators, so: Check it out: telnet 204.71.106.202 or telnet idtdna.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 02 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: help Date: 3 May 1995 10:47:14 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 8 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net If somebody have French journal medicine/sciences vol II,n4,1995 available through e-mail, please , send it to me. I have no idea how I can reach any articles through net, if it is possibly let me know how. Dmitri Chamchad e-mail:bk772@freenet.toronto.on.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 02 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!ccnet.com!usenet From: Dean Jennings Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Man Date: 3 May 1995 20:04:18 GMT Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest) Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3o8nk2$mqc@ccnet.ccnet.com> References: <3nqnnn$189h@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ccnet3 x011@Lehigh.EDU wrote: > > In article <60.812.4045.0N1DE632@canrem.com>, david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (Davi > d Lloyd-Jones) writes: > > John@longevb.demon.co.uk posts: > >JD+If life is a system of a large number of variables and feedback loops all > > +trying to keep the system stable, then Chaos theory shows that eventually > > +the process of stabilisation must fail. > >>>>>>>>C U T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Agreed, but when the failure occurs could be thousand of years in the > future. Are you willing to give up an extra 900 years of life because > chaos theory predicts you are wasting your time? Ron Blue x011@lehigh.edu IMHO Chaotic processes do not necessarily require the system involved (human life in this case) to disappear into a puff of logic. The planets in their orbits or any other three plus body system is chaotic. Systems can be chaotic but constrained in an envelope. None of the planets will take off and leave the solar system, they will continue to behave chaotically within the solar system. Certain mathematical sequences can be chaotic while the values are always contained within an envelope. In so far as controlling chaos, a technique called 'Ocassional Proportional Feedback' can be used to find and maintain a periodic subset of possible orbits. The basic idea is to find a pattern which almost repeats naturally and push it back into the initial conditions. This is a method for forcing periodicity on the system without a lot of effort. This probably is not applicable to ageing becuase this requires the system to evolve in such a way as to come close to some prior state - close enough to be nudged back into the exact initial condition so that it can repeat this orbit. Regards, Dean From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Man From: david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com (David Lloyd-Jones) Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!portnoy!canrem.com!david.lloyd-jones Distribution: world Message-ID: <60.831.4045.0N1DF977@canrem.com> References: <3o8nk2$mqc@ccnet.ccnet.com> Date: Wed, 3 May 95 21:24:00 -0500 Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) Lines: 14 Dean, Your post on chaos theory agrees with my impressions, which is why I sked the question in the first place. Best wishes, -dlj. david.lloyd-jones@canrem.com * 1st 1.11 #3818 * This post 100% OJ free. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.oz.au!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: terminology Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 May 95 13:25:52 +1200 References: Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 56 In obogler@ucsd.edu (Oliver Bogler) writes: >In article <3no34u$hk9@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>, wrote: >> *Would it not be better to use neutral terms for the stages in cell cultures >> *like a) dividing, b) quiescent, c) nondividing, and d) perpetually dividing, >> *or any other set of terms that just describes the facts. >> >Yes indeed it would be better, and in fact it is so. Here they are: [snip - no argument] >senescent: the cell is in a normally irreversible form of G0 where it will >not divide no matter what stimulants are applied. It is however viable, >and can remain so for some time. [snip - no argument] >mortal: the cell can divide for a limit period of time (with periods of >quiescence possible) at the end of which it spontaneously enters >senescence and/or apoptosis. >immortal: the cell never undergoes senescence or apoptosis spontaneously >(note: it could be quiescent) >These are the definitions of the common terms used by people working in >the field. It has to be understood that some of the same words are used by >laypeople to mean different things. This is common in English, I'm afraid. >I hope I have helped in clarifying this difficult area. Do you really think that it's appropriate for a small group of biologists to usurp the common meaning of a term? Science is about creating clarity, not confusion. I, for one, refuse to perpetuate these lingual inaccuracies. If a publication (or post) is meant for general consumption, the onus is on the writer to communicate in a clear and unambiguous manner. The care with which, for example, Alberts et al have written Molecular Biology of The Cell (P750-751) illustrates the point: When they talk about cell senescence they call it CELL senescence. When they talk of continued proliferation potential they enclose "immortal" in quotation marks to indicate its unusual usage. Many cell biologists could learn a lesson from this. Let's put this issue to bed and do our best from now on to maintain the integrity of the language. Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz ----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------- (c) Steve Chambers 1995. All rights reserved ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Many? A Definition? Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 May 95 16:00:33 +1200 References: Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 91 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1753 sci.life-extension:4976 In "Patrick O'Neil" writes: >On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Steve Chambers wrote: >> In the hope of stimulating further debate, I'm going to play devil's >> advocate. The following might be seen as evidence against such a >> multiple process model of aging: >> 1) It seems that homo sapiens' maximum lifespan may be double that of >> his most immediate ancestor. Some might argue (notably Cutler) that >> 150,000 years is such a short period of evolutionary history that >> advantagous mutations could only have influenced a FEW aging processes. >What data is there to support a doubled lifespan for modern humans vs >their immediate ancestors? Patrick I always enjoy your posts and I appreciate the fact that you are arguing in support of my earlier contentions. However, the arguments I presented against a multiple process model for aging are very real and can't be dismissed so easily. For point (1) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cutler RG Evolution of human longevity and the genetic complexity governing aging rate. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A; 1975 Nov; 72(11); P 4664-8 ABSTRACT Genetic complexity of processes governing the aging rate of man was estimated by determining the maximum rate lifespan has evolved along the hominid ancestral-descendant sequence. Maximum lifespan potential was found to have increased approximately 2-fold over the past 3 million years, reaching a maximum rate of increase of 14 years per 100,000 years about 100,000 years ago. It is estimated that about 0.6% of the total functional genes have received substitutions leading to one or more adaptive amino acid changes during this 100,000-year time-period. This suggests that aging is not the result of an expression of a large number of independently acting processes. Instead, primary aging processes appear to exist where only a few genetic changes are necessary to decrease uniformly the aging rate of many different physiological functions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've not sighted the paper, but I believe the methods used were: (1) a phylogenetic analysis of the MLP of present living species and (2) an empirical equation using brain and body weight estimates from fossils. [snip] >> 2) Calorie Restriction has a significant life-extending influence, and it >> influences MANY age-related changes. The effect seems to be universal. >> Some might offer this as evidence that there are only a FEW (and maybe >> only one) underlying aging processes. >Not necessarily. I would put forward the rather simple explanation of >this effect as being due to a reduction in the rate of metabolism. [snip] This is not a new thought - but the jury's still out as to whether the life-prolonging effects of CR can be attributed to a generally reduced metabolism. It's hard to square such a theory with CR's effects on glucose metabolism and the improvement in various immune functions. Several studies have also shown no change in BMR/kg body weight for CR animals. >> 3) Recent evidence (eg. Carey et al, 1992; Curtsinger et al, 1992) >> suggests that mortality rates may decline in late life of many species. >> Some might suggest that this argues against there being MANY aging >> processes. >Hardly. Those who make it to old age and are still functional might well >simply carry a slower developmental clock. Quite so - there is plainly some development-program-linked component to aging. But I can't see how it, per se, can provide a complete explanation for a late-life reduction in mortality rates. It could only do so if it was controlled by very few gene loci with very few alleles. But hey, I'm open to suggestions... Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz ----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------- (c) Steve Chambers 1995. All rights reserved ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!network.ucsd.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: obogler@ucsd.edu (Oliver Bogler) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: terminology Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 13:42:20 -0700 Organization: Ludwig Institute Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: licr-user003.ucsd.edu In article , steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) wrote: > >immortal: the cell never undergoes senescence or apoptosis spontaneously > >(note: it could be quiescent) > > >These are the definitions of the common terms used by people working in > >the field. It has to be understood that some of the same words are used by > >laypeople to mean different things. This is common in English, I'm afraid. > >I hope I have helped in clarifying this difficult area. > > Do you really think that it's appropriate for a small group of biologists > to usurp the common meaning of a term? Science is about creating clarity, > not confusion. I, for one, refuse to perpetuate these lingual inaccuracies. I am sorry if I gave the impression that biologist usurped the terms we were dicussing. I believe there is room for all of us, and words can carry many shades of meaning without confusion. The way this works is by context. I think that when you come across words like immortal in a news group called *bionet*.*molbio*.ageing that you might expect scientific usage. Rest assured that I wouldn't use the word the same way if I posted to a newsroup discussing, say, the possibility of an afterlife. I find the accuracy of Alberts et al., laudable and highly appropriate for a text book. I don't think it is necessary among a group of individuals holding a conversation. You may have observed similar shorthand in other conversations you have had. You hold forth on what science is about. I hope that this forum will soon be about discussing the molecular biology of ageing, and not whether the word immortal should be reserved for certain meanings, according to the preferences of one member. Please understand that the usage of the word for scientific purposes is a fact, no matter how much you dislike this. Your cooperation in returning this newsgroup to its original purpose would be appreciated. Oliver -- Oliver Bogler obogler@ucsd.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: grovesa@starbase1.caltech.edu (Andrew K. Groves) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: terminology Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 10:14:38 -0700 Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mac168.bio.caltech.edu X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ In article , steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) wrote: > > Do you really think that it's appropriate for a small group of biologists > to usurp the common meaning of a term? Science is about creating clarity, > not confusion. I, for one, refuse to perpetuate these lingual inaccuracies. > > If a publication (or post) is meant for general consumption, the onus is > on the writer to communicate in a clear and unambiguous manner. The care > with which, for example, Alberts et al have written Molecular Biology of > The Cell (P750-751) illustrates the point: > > When they talk about cell senescence they call it CELL senescence. > > When they talk of continued proliferation potential they enclose > "immortal" in quotation marks to indicate its unusual usage. > > Many cell biologists could learn a lesson from this. Let's put this > issue to bed and do our best from now on to maintain the integrity of the > language. > There are no 'lingual innaccuracies' about using the word 'immortal' in this context, as it has been defined precisely by the scientists that use it. It does not matter one whit whether scientists and non-scientists think of the word in different ways. Consider the term 'growth'. A lay person thinks of 'growth' as getting bigger. A cell biologist (since we're demonising cell biologists at the moment....) thinks of growth as cells dividing, but (individual) cells not getting bigger....... And Alberts et al don't put the word 'immortality' in quotation marks in the third edition of their text, by the way. What do you think about the 'lingual inaccuracies' of the word "mine"? Andy -- Andy Groves Division of Biology, 216-76 California Institute of Technology From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Many? A Definition? Message-ID: <-WTqvAiPBh107h@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz> Date: Thu, 4 May 95 16:14:55 +1200 References: <3ndu2f$3tj@larry.rice.edu> Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 36 In <3ndu2f$3tj@larry.rice.edu> Mark Gardner writes: >steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) wrote: >> Any common process with the capacity to increase adult mortality, >> or degrade adult function, in an age-dependant manner. >So as a child grows older and becomes an adult. Is this not aging? >We have a method to stop us from growing for ever. We may reach 6' >tall and then our growth process begins to shut down. Is this >the same process as aging? Maybe this is what causes aging. I think >lobsters and turtles continue to grow in size and they tend to have >long lives. The lives of humans have increased as we extended our >childhood. Our puberty is at about 12 years old compared to a couple >of years for other primates. This has postponed adulthood and thus >extended our entire lifespan. >Could it be that the same process that matures us also causes us to >grow old? Yes it (they) could. So too could those processes that arrest early growth and maturation. Bidder (1932) first suggested such a possibility and Cutler summarised subsequent thinking with his DLBPs (developmentally- linked biosenescent processes). DLBPs would fit within the proposed definition because they "increase adult mortality, or degrade adult function". Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz ----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------- (c) Steve Chambers 1995. All rights reserved ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: information Date: 4 May 1995 15:25:02 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 8 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net I saw abstract of ageing hypotheses (from 6 May 1994 Timothy R.Hughes), bat I can not print it because I woking from library, if somebody has it, please, sent it to me: bk772@freenet.toronto.on.ca Yours truly Dmitri From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 04 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!gavrilov From: gavrilov@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Call to Dutch Colleagues Date: 5 May 1995 02:10:38 -0700 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 28 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net May 5, 1995 Dear Dutch Colleagues, A small group of Russian gerontologists will be attending the III European Congress of Gerontology on August 30 - September 2, 1995 in Amsterdam. We would be happy to use this lucky chance to visit some Dutch gerontological centers, to give there some seminars on Russian gerontological research and to discuss the opportunities for Dutch-Russian scientific collaboration in longevity research. Please do not hesitate to contact me by E-mail and fax printed below for the schedule of such meetings. Additional information including our CVs is available upon the request. Sincerely yours, Dr. Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University 119899 Moscow, RUSSIA FAX: 7 (095) 939-0338 7 (095) 939-3181  From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat May 06 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Terminology For Termination Of Aging Date: 7 May 1995 06:08:59 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 111 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net The original post about 'immortality' and 'Curing The Old Age Disease' was a request to find acceptable terminology for communication to the general public. The general public needs to be enlightened about current research that may 'stop the aging process' so that people may live to be 100's of years old. The reason people need to be informed is so they can make decisions about voting for and support public (gov't) funding to accelerate the research. Others would be motivated to invest venture capital in research projects for the possibility of windfall profits. $6,000,000 is needed to add an additional research lab designated for this research. That is one lab. $30 billion would put labs in several universities and in other countries that are not inhibited by US regulations. Cures for cancer, heart disease, AIDS, viral invasions, may be a side result of these labs. If the 'aging process is stopped' humans would be more resistant to those diseases. The death rate for traumatic events is less than 5% of total deaths. Automobile collisions and other 'accidents', violence account for 5% max of all fatalities. 95% of deaths are non-traumatic, which may be elimated with the termination of the aging process and the perpetuation of healthy immunization systems. Advances in social communication and motivation will eventually eliminate diseases of choice such as those caused by over-consumption and unmanaged stess and emotions. Each of the terms or phrases used to communicate the idea of 'arresting the aging process' is criticized by technologists for its lack of scientific documentation and definition. There is controversy about what is 'aging' as well as what is the correct way to say 'not grow old'. All challenges have merit. All criticism is justified when the technical analysis of the terms or phrases actually say in scientific arena. The public is left to think that since we can't come up with something in our English language to communicate the concept, then why bother with supporting research or even promoting safe, healthy lifestyles until the breakthrough is made. The concept today is that safe, healthy living will only extend one's life a few years, maybe 10%. The idea is that by maintaining fitness and careful driving and managing our emotions during stress we will only extend our existence another 10 years in the convalescent home. So why bother to make difficult changes and eat healthy food and exercise regularly and cooperate in traffic with rude drivers if all we do is expand our chances to live longer in a nursing home with breathing difficulties and aching joints. This is a request to develop a universal terminology to communicate the concept of 'eliminating the aging process in the human life'. For those who would 'care to live an extra hundred years'. There have been some very clear explanations and clarifications of existing terminology on this thread. We still need something for the influential voting and spending public. On Thu, 4 May 1995, Oliver Bogler wrote: > In article , > steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) wrote: > > > > >immortal: the cell never undergoes senescence or apoptosis spontaneously > > >(note: it could be quiescent) > > > > >These are the definitions of the common terms used by people working in > > >the field. It has to be understood that some of the same words are used by > > >laypeople to mean different things. This is common in English, I'm afraid. > > >I hope I have helped in clarifying this difficult area. > > > > Do you really think that it's appropriate for a small group of biologists > > to usurp the common meaning of a term? Science is about creating clarity, > > not confusion. I, for one, refuse to perpetuate these lingual inaccuracies. > > I am sorry if I gave the impression that biologist usurped the terms we > were dicussing. I believe there is room for all of us, and words can carry > many shades of meaning without confusion. The way this works is by > context. I think that when you come across words like immortal in a news > group called *bionet*.*molbio*.ageing that you might expect scientific > usage. Rest assured that I wouldn't use the word the same way if I posted > to a newsroup discussing, say, the possibility of an afterlife. > > I find the accuracy of Alberts et al., laudable and highly appropriate for > a text book. I don't think it is necessary among a group of individuals > holding a conversation. You may have observed similar shorthand in other > conversations you have had. > > You hold forth on what science is about. I hope that this forum will soon > be about discussing the molecular biology of ageing, and not whether the > word immortal should be reserved for certain meanings, according to the > preferences of one member. Please understand that the usage of the word > for scientific purposes is a fact, no matter how much you dislike this. > Your cooperation in returning this newsgroup to its original purpose would > be appreciated. > > Oliver > > -- > Oliver Bogler > obogler@ucsd.edu > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!SINGER.ASRI.EDU!MANEV From: MANEV@SINGER.ASRI.EDU ("Hari Manev, M.D.") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: APOPTOSIS SYMPOSIUM DEADLINE MAY 31 !!!! Date: 8 May 1995 05:34:47 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 9 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <01HQ95EENVUA0009P9@SINGER.ASRI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net International Symposium on Oxidative Stress, Apoptosis and Brain Damage, September 21 -24, Pittsburgh, PA, USA. Speakers: Yehezkel Ben-Ari, Ross Bullock, Nalini Chandar, Thomas L. Deckwerth, Santosh R. D'Mello, Lloyd A. Greene, Edward D. Hall, Matthew D. Linik, Mark P. Mattson, Tracy K. McIntosh, James I. Morgan, Steven J. Richardson, Steven M. Paul, Jeffrey D. Rothstein, Frank R. Sharp, Roger P. Simon, Mark A. Smith, Tadeusz Wieloch, Jack E. Wilberger, Hari Manev. Deadline for poster abstracts is MAY 31. For the brochure and abstract forms e-mail or fax (412-359-4364). From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 08 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Reference from Sci. Am. "Oldest Old" ? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 May 95 21:02:01 +1200 Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 20 In Thomas T Perls "The Oldest Old", Scientific American, January 1995: James W Vaupel and Anatoli Yashin of Odense University in Denmark, A. Rofer Thatcher, formerly of the Office of Population Consuses and Surveys in London, and Vaino Kannisto, formerly of the United Nations, examined death statistics on eight million people. They found that after 97 a person's chance of dying at a given age veers from .... I can't seem to find any published literature detailing this study or it's findings. Does anyone have a reference? Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz ----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------- (c) Steve Chambers 1995. All rights reserved ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 08 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re:MIME format (fwd) Date: 9 May 1995 14:07:40 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 21 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: Reply-To: Dmitri Chamchad NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 22:27:37 +0400 (MSD) From: Leonid A.Gavrilov To: bk772@freenet.toronto.on.ca Subject: Re:MIME format Thanks for your E-mail message of May 9. Since I cannot read the MIME format (I have only uuencode/decode programs), would it be possible to send me uuencoded software so that I can read your message ? Sincerely yours, Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov Can somebody help him? If "Yes" please let me know From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 09 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.dkrz.de!dvibm3.gkss.de!warnke.uni-lueneburg.de!user From: warnke@uni-lueneburg.de (Martin Warnke) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Many? A Definition? Date: 10 May 1995 09:52:47 GMT Organization: Universität Lüneburg Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: warnke.uni-lueneburg.de Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1763 sci.life-extension:5058 This is just a test of my news-reader, wether I can reply directly. Sorry for disturbing you. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 10 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: grovesa@starbase1.caltech.edu (Andrew K. Groves) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: terminology Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:28:34 -0700 Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 23 Distribution: bionet Message-ID: References: <3osgru$bqf@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac168.bio.caltech.edu X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ In article <3osgru$bqf@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>, wrote: > > In our recent discussion about terminology in ageing research I have > suggested to use neutral terms for > the stages of cell division. The argumentation was that 'immortal' is, > strictly speaking, an unscientific term, and that the term 'senescence' > is used by scientists on ageing that are working with cell cultures in a > completely different manner than other scientists > working in the field of ageing. Moreover, I argued, the term 'senescence' > used by the cell biologists seems to contain a circular argument. > Sorry - I don't have an archive of this thread, so I don't recall your comments about senescence and circular arguments. If you summarise them, I'll try and respond! Andy -- Andy Groves Division of Biology, 216-76 California Institute of Technology From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 10 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!equity.wharton.upenn.edu!rodrig28 From: rodrig28@equity.wharton.upenn.edu (MAYRA RODRIGUEZ) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Independent Living Technology Fair Date: 11 May 1995 13:38:57 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3ot41h$9or@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: equity.wharton.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-upenn1.1] Discover how "smart" a room can be at the Technology for Independent Living Fair presented by the Age Center Alliance, Inc. on May 19 and 20 at the Menlo Park Recreation Center in Menlo Park, California. The event, scheduled from 10 am to 4 pm both days, is FREE and open to the public. Designed by Stanford University engineers, the "smart kitchen" features special storage systems with moving cabinets and high-tech cookware. The smart bathroom features an automatic toilet, faucets and hand dryers. The "smart home office" is equipped with on-line services for grocery shopping and bill paying and remote appliance controls. These "smart rooms" are complimented by more than 50 other exhibits showcasing innovative solutions for people who want to live independently but require some assistance to do so. The Fair offers a unique opportunity to test new devices. FOR MORE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL THE AGE CENTER ALLIANCE (415) 854 - 5174 and the fax number is 415-854-2862. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 10 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: terminology Date: 11 May 1995 09:11:42 +0100 Lines: 25 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <3osgru$bqf@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.UK In our recent discussion about terminology in ageing research I have suggested to use neutral terms for the stages of cell division. The argumentation was that 'immortal' is, strictly speaking, an unscientific term, and that the term 'senescence' is used by scientists on ageing that are working with cell cultures in a completely different manner than other scientists working in the field of ageing. Moreover, I argued, the term 'senescence' used by the cell biologists seems to contain a circular argument. Both Andy Groves and Oliver Bogler have responded to this. Oliver says that only lay-people use the terms differently, but actually all biologists outside the cell-culture/senescence field do. Neither Andy nor Oliver have responded to the point of circular reasoning I put forward. I agree that the terms are well defined, and therefore serve their purpose for the workers in the cell culture field. Great confusion seems, however, to arise when these terms are used for communication outside this relatively small field within the biological sciences. Wouter G. van Doorn ATO-DLO, Wageningen, The Netherlands From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 11 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail From: lgilbert@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Laurence Gilbert) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: AGING Processes - Many? A Definition? Followup-To: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Date: 12 May 1995 04:53:49 -0400 Organization: The Greater Columbus Freenet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3ov7mt$rfd@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:1767 sci.life-extension:5092 Martin Warnke (warnke@uni-lueneburg.de) wrote: : This is just a test of my news-reader, wether I can reply directly. Sorry : for disturbing you. You get old. You die. -- Laurence Gilbert ----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat May 13 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!u27554 From: u27554@newsserver.sdsc.edu (Elya S Kurktchi) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: PDB file of BCL-2? Date: 14 May 1995 00:25:55 GMT Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center Lines: 7 Message-ID: <3p3imj$8m2@rosebud.sdsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bambam.sdsc.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Has anyone crystallized bcl-2, yet? If so, can you please contact me via email? Thanks. Elya. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU!cummins From: cummins@POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU (Dr Jim Cummins) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Aging book by Holliday Date: 14 May 1995 21:29:28 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 20 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net I've just received my copy of "Understanding Ageing" by Robin Holliday, published by Cambridge University Press in their Developmental and Cell Biology Series (ISBN 0-521-41788-0). He reviews at least ten major mechanisms of ageing comprising "a substantial proportion of all biological processes". It's a valuable contribution and worth getting as a reference source. Jim "Spermatology rules o~ o~ o~ o~" Cummins Associate Professor in Veterinary Anatomy Murdoch University, Western Australia 6150 Tel +61-9-360 2668, Fax +61-9-310 4144 E mail URL "An inordinate fondness for Beetles" (Haldane on God). From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: I am looking for DR. Bernhard Cinader UfT Date: 15 May 1995 16:46:15 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 6 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net If somebody knows how I can find Dr. Bernhard Cinader, please let me know. Dmitri Chamchad From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 15 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!aging From: aging@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Centenarian Project Date: 16 May 1995 03:19:57 -0700 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 43 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net May 14, 1995 Dear Colleagues, As a result of 3 years of hard work of our gerontology research group at Moscow State University, we have created a unique genealogical library that consists of more than 300 genealogical and biographical publications and information on longevity of more than 500,000 persons ever lived in Russia. Now we are going to computerize this enormous amount of information and we would be most interested to find partners (and/or sponsors) for this project. ************************************************************************* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In particular, we are going to focus our research on genealogy of centenarians in order to understand the mechanisms of longevity. We would greatly appreciate any information about research work in this direction and any genealogical databases that might be used for these studies. ************************************************************************** Any information on organizations or persons who might be interested in this project would be greatly appreciated. If we succeed to find support for this project, we will create the first independent non-governmental non-profit scientific center for longevity and genealogy research in the history of Russia. Additional information including letters of recommendation and my CV is available upon the request. Sincerely yours, Dr. Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University 119899 Moscow, RUSSIA FAX: 7 (095) 939-0338 7 (095) 939-3181  From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 17 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!ewbank From: ewbank@monod.biol.mcgill.ca (Jonathan Ewbank) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Werner's syndrome cause? Date: 18 May 1995 00:30:13 GMT Organization: McGill University Computing Centre Lines: 55 Message-ID: <3pe4el$357@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: monod.biol.mcgill.ca Summary: current best indication of cause? Keywords: premature ageing, Werner's syndrome There have been threads on and off about Werner's syndrome, but no mention of it for a while. On the other hand, a number of papers have come out in the last year or so, each proposing a candidate for the causative mutations. Among the possibilities suggested are F1-ATPase, DNA polymerase and telomerase (references below). Have any of the possiblities been definitely eliminated? What does the current evidence point to? I'd be interested to hear any opinions. j. Oshima J. Campisi J. Tannock TC. Martin GM. Regulation of c-fos expression in senescing Werner syndrome fibroblasts differs from that observed in senescing fibroblasts from normal donors. Journal of Cellular Physiology. 162(2):277-83, 1995 Feb. Kruk PA. Rampino NJ. Bohr VA. DNA damage and repair in telomeres: relation to aging. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 92(1):258-62, 1995 Jan 3. Kroll J. The mitochondrial F1-ATPase and the aging process. Medical Hypotheses. 42(6):395-6, 1994 Jun. Chang M. Burmer GC. Sweasy J. Loeb LA. Edelhoff S. Disteche CM. Yu CE. Anderson L. Oshima J. Nakura J. et al. Evidence against DNA polymerase beta as a candidate gene for Werner syndrome. Human Genetics. 93(5):507-12, 1994 May. Sadakane Y. Maeda K. Kuroda Y. Hori K. Identification of mutations in DNA polymerase beta mRNAs from patients with Werner syndrome. Biochemical & Biophysical Research Communications. 200(1):219-25, 1994 Liu S. Thweatt R. Lumpkin CK Jr. Goldstein S. Suppression of calcium-dependent membrane currents in human fibroblasts by replicative senescence and forced expression of a gene sequence encoding a putative calcium-binding protein. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 91(6):2186-90, 1994 Mar 15 Jonathan Ewbank Department of Biology ewbank@monod.biol.mcgill.ca McGill University (514) 398 6278 1205 Dr Penfield Avenue fax 398 5069 Montreal PQ Canada H3A 1B1 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 17 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU!cummins From: cummins@POSSUM.MURDOCH.EDU.AU (Dr Jim Cummins) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Werner's syndrome cause? Date: 18 May 1995 00:58:31 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Hi You wrote: >Date: 18 May 1995 00:30:13 GMT >There have been threads on and off about Werner's syndrome, but no >mention of it for a while. On the other hand, a number of papers have >come out in the last year or so, each proposing a candidate for the >causative mutations. Among the possibilities suggested are F1-ATPase, DNA >polymerase and telomerase (references below). Have any of >the possiblities been definitely eliminated? What does the current >evidence point to? I'd be interested to hear any opinions. I checked in Robin Holliday's excellent new book "Understanding ageing' and it's clear the jury's still out on the exact *cause* of Werner's . He writes "Certainly it is very important to understand the actual gene affected in Werner's syndrome or progeria, and this will advance out knowledge of ageing, but it is doubtful if it will uncover a single specific cause of ageing". Tim Hughes posted a FAQ some time back. Maybe it's time to revise it? Over to you, Tim ;-) Jim "Spermatology rules o~ o~ o~ o~" Cummins Associate Professor in Veterinary Anatomy Murdoch University, Western Australia 6150 Tel +61-9-360 2668, Fax +61-9-310 4144 E mail URL "An inordinate fondness for Beetles" (Haldane on God). From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat May 20 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mira.net.au!suburbia.apana.org.au!proff From: proff@suburbia.apana.org.au (Julian Assange) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Centenarian Project Date: 21 May 1995 09:52:27 GMT Organization: werple public-access Internet, Melbourne Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3pn2gr$n7a@eplet.mira.net.au> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: suburbia.apana.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Leonid A.Gavrilov (aging@ilr.rc.ac.ru) wrote: : May 14, 1995 : Dear Colleagues, : As a result of 3 years of hard work of our gerontology research group : at Moscow State University, we have created a unique genealogical : library that consists of more than 300 genealogical and biographical : publications and information on longevity of more than 500,000 persons : ever lived in Russia. [..] I'm a unix/c/c++ computer programmer. I have no special knowledge of genetics or aging, but read eclectically. Programming wise, my strengths lay in security, cryptography and tcp/ip (inter)networking. I'm willing to donate a minimum of 36 hours of my time (typically valued at $160 p/h) to your project. The only condition is that I have free access to the database afterwards. Cheers, Julian Assange. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 21 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!usenet From: Ioan Davies Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: British Congress of Gerontology Date: 22 May 1995 16:06:11 GMT Organization: Manchester Crisis Club (or whatever we're called this week) Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3pqcpj$riu@yama.mcc.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: idav.scs.man.ac.uk LIVING LONGER LIVING BETTER British Congress of Gerontoogy Manchester, United Kingdom July 3-5, 1996 Jointly hosted by the British Geriatrics Society, the British Society of Gerontology and the British Society for Research on Ageing. Invited UK and overseas speakers, symposia and poster sessions, exhibitions and social programme. Parallel paper sessions to include themes of mobility, rehabilitation, longevity and genetics, free radicals, equity in healthcare, and quality of life. Special plenary sessions will focus on biological, clinical and social aspects of nutrition and the dementias. Deadline for abstracts: 1 December 1995 For further information contact: British Congress of Gerontology Secretariat University of Manchester 3.239 Stopford Building Oxford Road Manchester, United Kingdom M13 9PT or EMAIL, but please include your full postal address! From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 22 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!usenet From: Ioan Davies Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Masters course in Biomedical Gerontology Date: 23 May 1995 08:03:53 GMT Organization: Manchester Crisis Club (or whatever we're called this week) Lines: 37 Message-ID: <3ps4t9$44l@yama.mcc.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: idav.scs.man.ac.uk A new Masters degree in Biomedical Gerontology is now available at the University of Manchester's Graduate School of Science, Engineering and Medicine. The course is full-time for one year and comprises a taught component and a research project. Currently, there are no plans for part-time students. The degree programme is an advanced course in Biomedical Gerontology that will enable graduate students in Biology, Medicine, Dentistry, and candidates from other scientific disciplines with a biology background to obtain specialised training in the field of Biomedical Gerontology. The students will have a choice of modules, depending on their qualifications, to pursue their chosen area of study. Since Biomedical Gerontology is a multidisciplinary field of study potential researchers will need to study other areas of biology at a postgraduate level to fully equip them for such broad based research. The School of Biological Sciences at Manchester has MSc programmes in Neuroscience, Immunology and Bioinformatics that have appropriate modules for students doing the Biomedical Gerontology degree. This degree will be the ideal starting point for a student about to embark on a career of biomedical research in this area, but will also be of benefit to professionals working in health care of the elderly. Further details can be obtained from: Dr Ioan Davies University of Manchester School of Biological Sciences 1.124 Stopford Building Oxford Road MANCHESTER, M13 9PT United Kingdom Tel: (+44) 161 275 5252 Fax: (+44) 161 275 5363 EMAIL: IDAVIES@FS2.SCG.MAN.AC.UK From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 28 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!news.nyc.pipeline.com!not-for-mail From: rkeysphd@nyc.pipeline.com (Ronald B. Keys J.D. Ph.D) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: *Practical* Immortality: An how to do it? Date: 28 May 1995 20:48:31 -0400 Organization: The Pipeline Lines: 45 Message-ID: <3qb5kv$olf@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> References: <3ooghn$gtj@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> <3pi7l3$ati@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> <3pkoe1$n9k@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plqjg$agv@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com><3po7i8$6sk@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com AGING:NO ROYAL ROAD BUT MAYBE ONE MAJOR HIGHWAY Dear Dr. Harris and other Interested Colleagues; Many avenues have to be traveled to stop and reverse the aging process;there is no magic pill. Possibly one major highway is the basic understanding of detoxication systems. Some people detoxify slowly while others more quickly. DO GOOD DETOXIFIERS LIVE LONGER LIVES WHILE BAD DETOXIFIERS DIE QUICKLY? Understanding the 50 to 100 enzymes involved in the (1) CYTOCHROME P450 SYSTEM with emphasis on the enhancement of the main ten of these enzyme systems, along with (2) the enhancement of the GLUTATHIONE-S-PEROXIDASE systems is a good start. Behind every major illness, I search to identify and profile these systems in the patient; what is their manner of regulation (as a regulatory entity) and pattern of expression in terms of (a) patient range of function, (b)patient outcome (c) and quality of the patient's life? What is the status of the sulphur amino acid metabolism in relation to plasma glutathione levels in the patient? Without detox systems also including but not limited to, INTRACELLULAR ANTIOXIDANT ENZYME SYSTEMS SUCH AS SUPEROXIDE DISMUTASE, CATALASE AND GLUTATHIONE PEROXIDASE, in an optimal as opposed to suboptimal ranges, intracellular enzyme systems will function at compromised levels. Compromised levels of function are not being treated by our health care system because it has not emerged as a disease category, yet. Dr. Jeffrey Bland has described this class of people as the "walking wounded". Those who seek some level of enhanced functional lifespan should plan on "patient appropriate loading" (subject to responsible dose-response curves) with thiol compounds for immunoenhancements and augmentation of detoxication systems. We have to start asking the right questions. From the cutting edge, Ronald B. Keys, JD, PhD (rkeysphd@nyc.pipeline.com) (5-28-95) Queens, NYC (718) 460-3966, American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, International Association of Biomedical Gerontology, National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, American Academy of Clinical Gerontology, American Aging Association, Life Extension Foundation, Trained: Psycho-analysis, Certified: Mediation & Counseling, Certified: Functional Assessments & Interventions, Certified: Interdisciplinary Geriatrics: Geriatric Assessment, Columbia University--NY Geriatric Education Center From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 28 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail From: cpatil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Christopher Kashinath Patil) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Do unicellular organisms age? Date: 29 May 1995 10:49:34 -0700 Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3qd1fe$bl5@adelbert11.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: adelbert11.stanford.edu Do unicellular organisms age? I'd be interested to know what other people's thoughts were on this subject. It seems unlikely to me that unicellular organisms would age (as it would result in the extinction of clones that did undergo aging), but it also seems difficult to understand how certain kinds of age-related damage (buildup of metabolic by-products, etc.) could be avoided by these organisms. On related notes: 1) Do unicellular organisms that pass through haploid and diploid stages repair age-related damage in one or both of these stages? 2) Do all multicellular organisms age? If not, what is the complexity thresh- hold for aging? I would be interested to hear thoughts on this subject; needless to say, if you have references to relevant articles, please include those in your response as well. -- Chris Patil Stanford University cpatil@leland.stanford.edu Department of Biological Sciences "That in our day such giant shadows are cast by such pygmies only shows how late in the day it has become." -- Chargaff, referring to Watson & Crick From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 29 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!BIOTOP.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL!TCHORZ From: TCHORZ@BIOTOP.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL ("Marek Tchorzewski") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: RE:Do unicellular organisms age? Date: 30 May 1995 01:47:52 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 13 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <14CA456C26@biotop.umcs.lublin.pl> Hi, > Do unicellular organisms age? Yes, they age. Let's consider yeast, for instance Saccharomyces cerevisiae. This unicellular organism can undergo about 24 budding and mother cell ending its live. Mark Tchorzewski Department of Molecular Biology University of Maria Curie-Sklodowska, Poland From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 29 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA!bk772 From: bk772@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA (Dmitri Chamchad) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: RE:Do unicellular organisms age? Date: 30 May 1995 10:51:23 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 23 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <14CA456C26@biotop.umcs.lublin.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On 30 May 1995, Marek Tchorzewski wrote: > > Do unicellular organisms age? > > Yes, they age. Let's consider yeast, for instance Saccharomyces > cerevisiae. > This unicellular organism can undergo about 24 budding and mother > cell ending its live. > > Mark Tchorzewski > Department of Molecular Biology > University of Maria Curie-Sklodowska, Poland -- Why do you think it is age process? I thought mother cell and daughter cell absolutely identical, are they? Yours truly Dmitri Dmitri Chamchad M.D. 715 Finch ave. West apt.904 Downsview, Ontario, M3H 4X7 Canada. Tel.(416)-398-5947 e-mail: bk772@freenet.toronto.on.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 30 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!infoserver.bgsu.edu!usenet From: Bruce Sonnenberg Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: (no subject) Date: 31 May 1995 19:23:25 GMT Organization: Bowling Green State University Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3qifnd$32q@infoserver.bgsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: m33-41.bgsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-URL: news:bionet.molbio.ageing I am a student at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. I am searching for a way to get a new program for Alzheimer and Dementia patients known outside of Ohio. The program is called Communication Art, developed by Barbara Brock of Toledo, Ohio. Any information would be helpful or questions about the program would be greatly appreciated Bruce Sonnenberg BGSU bsonnen@opie.bgsu.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 30 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!network.ucsd.edu!licr-user003.ucsd.edu!user From: obogler@ucsd.edu (Oliver Bogler) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Do unicellular organisms age? Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 12:28:11 -0700 Organization: Ludwig Institute Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <3qd1fe$bl5@adelbert11.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: licr-user003.ucsd.edu In article <3qd1fe$bl5@adelbert11.Stanford.EDU>, cpatil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Christopher Kashinath Patil) wrote: > Do unicellular organisms age? > It seems unlikely to me that unicellular organisms would age (as it would > result in the extinction of clones that did undergo aging), but it also seems > difficult to understand how certain kinds of age-related damage (buildup of > metabolic by-products, etc.) could be avoided by these organisms. I agree witht the first point - bacteria, for example, do not age as there *must* be an unbroken chain of cells from the beginning of the bacterial life to today. The germline of higher organisms can be seen similarly as an "immortal" clone. (Immortal is in quotes because there was a heated debate in this group about the appropriateness of using that word to talk about cells - it is used purely in its narrow biological sense). It is on the basis of this argument that it has been proposed that life does not necessarily need to age. Ageing can then be seen as either 1) a process that is not actively prevented in the somatic cells of multicellular organisms, perhaps because that would be too metabolically expensive; 2) or as a process that is actively encouraged in the somatic tissue of multicellular organisms to allow the turnover of generations that is demanded by evolution. > 2) Do all multicellular organisms age? If not, what is the complexity thresh- > hold for aging? Caleb Finches book describes senescence in some simple multicellular organisms such as tetrahymena. > "That in our day such giant shadows are cast by such pygmies only shows > how late in the day it has become." -- Chargaff, referring to Watson & Crick I love that quote! Oliver -- Oliver Bogler obogler@ucsd.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 30 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!highway.LeidenUniv.nl!usenet From: you@somedomain.leidenuniv.nl (Drs Angelo Schouten) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: *Practical* Immortality: An how to do it? Date: 31 May 1995 11:49:08 GMT Organization: Leiden University, The Netherlands Lines: 56 Message-ID: <3qhl3k$m52@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> References: <3ooghn$gtj@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> <3pi7l3$ati@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> <3pkoe1$n9k@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plqjg$agv@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com><3po7i8$6sk@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <3qb5kv$olf@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rulc19.leidenuniv.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4 In article <3qb5kv$olf@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com>, rkeysphd@nyc.pipeline.com says... > >AGING:NO ROYAL ROAD BUT MAYBE ONE MAJOR HIGHWAY > > >Dear Dr. Harris and other Interested Colleagues; > > >Many avenues have to be traveled to stop and reverse the aging >process;there is no magic pill. > Response from Angelo Schouten, Excuse me, but I originally posted the article under the header *practical immortality* in the sci.life-extension newsgroup. I did not crosspost it. Nevertheless I kickstarted the discussion with tert-Butyl-phenylnitrone (PBN). This may not be a magic pill, but it certainly is reversing the aging process to some extent. In view of that discussion we entered subjects like 2MEA, mercaptoethanol and ethoxyquin. Steven Harris delivered a very firm contribution about mercapto compounds and ethoxyquin. I guess it is too early to tell anything. But I do think we have to take the reversal of the aging process (i.e. become younger instead of inhibiting getting older) very serious. The answer to this interesting phenomenon is a question for the molecular biologist (like the experiments done with Methuselah nematodes, the daf gene?). The discussion is still going on, but partially derailed, may I suggest you join us (sci.life-extension). Regards, Angelo Schouten ("I Die Harder than Bruce Willis") Leiden Institute of Chemistry Leiden University, The Netherlands *The E-mail address is no longer valid, it will take time to get a new one working* -------------------------------------------------- For correspondence (normal mail/ postal delivery) please use: POBox 6229 2702 AE Zoetermeer The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------- BTW my profession is chemistry and physics. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 31 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!nstn.ns.ca!nntp-user From: nstn0299@fox.nstn.ca Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: sex & the elderly in lng trm care Date: 31 May 1995 21:17:07 -0300 Organization: NSTN Inc. ICS/Windows Dialup User Lines: 9 Sender: news@nstn.ns.ca Message-ID: <3qj0u3$irr@Owl.nstn.ca> Reply-To: nstn0299@fox.nstn.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: owl.nstn.ns.ca X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.2 Hi, I am interested in sourcing info regarding the ethical issues faced by administration in long term care facilities regarding sex and the elderly IE: availability of privacy rooms for unmarrried couples and issues around consent and Alhziemers patients. Any info or referrals would be appriaciated or if you know of a more appropriate group to post to please let me know. Thanks Anne. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 31 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!mmd.com!mcleanl From: mcleanl@mmd.com Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Alzheimer's and Art Date: 1 Jun 1995 06:21:36 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 11 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199506011321.AA13598@gate.mmd.com> > searching for a way to get a new program for Alzheimer and Dementia Bruce - Please post to the list a brief description and the qualifications of people who might be able to teach such a methodology. thanks Larry McLean mcleanl@mmd.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 31 23:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!luly From: luly@netcom.com (Robert Luly) Subject: Re: Do unicellular organisms age? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <3qd1fe$bl5@adelbert11.Stanford.EDU> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:07:44 GMT Lines: 23 Sender: luly@netcom21.netcom.com Oliver Bogler (obogler@ucsd.edu) wrote: : In article <3qd1fe$bl5@adelbert11.Stanford.EDU>, : cpatil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Christopher Kashinath Patil) wrote: : > Do unicellular organisms age? : > 2) Do all multicellular organisms age? If not, what is the complexity thresh- : > hold for aging? Greetings Leonard Hayflick addresses this issue in his (1994) book, "How and Why We Age". It seems that the answer depends a great deal on your definition of the word aging. Hayflick sites many species, lobsters, many fishes and sharks and some reptiles (tortoise) and amphibians (aligators) that do not age (or at least age at a *very* solw rate) but he is careful to point out that they are not immortal. A common trait in non aging species is they never stop growing. This is found in chapter 2 of his book. Regards R. Luly -- luly@netcom.com