From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!news1.digital.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!biosci!UCHSC.EDU!Ed.Krug From: Ed.Krug@UCHSC.EDU (Edward Krug) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: caloric restriction rebound effect Date: 3 Oct 1995 18:47:24 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 13 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Help Paul Segall, 1979, in Mechanisms of Ageing and Development comments on the rebound in several physiological paramataers, eg. hair growth, thermoregulation, which for several months after end of caloric restriction display juvinal patterns. Probablly not unlike the effect W.D. Denckla pursued with hypophysectomy with partial hormone replacement. I haven't seen this effect being further pursued in the literature. Does any one out there know if this rebound effect is being addressed currently and if there is a good search word with which to keep tabs on it? Thanks in advance Ed Krug From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 03 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.mathworks.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!highway.LeidenUniv.nl!usenet From: d_quale@dds.nl (Angelo Schouten) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension,sci.med.nutrition Subject: For those who tried to e-mail me, please read this. Date: 4 Oct 1995 15:18:40 GMT Organization: Leiden Univ Lines: 23 Message-ID: <44u8kg$5d9@highway.LeidenUniv.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: rulc03.leidenuniv.nl X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 To: correspondents of the former (subject) newsgroups Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2012 sci.life-extension:7482 sci.med.nutrition:31469 My internet provider dds (my e-mail account and so on) experienced a disk failure last weekend. This means that the server erased some of my accumulated e-mail messages (I was "gone" too). However I did have a peep with ftp beforehand, but unfortunately I did not store any of your questions or suggestions to me. But I do remember a lot of interesting persons [*] who at least caught my immediate attention. Since I nearly always answer e-mail (I am that nice) I would ask those concerned ("missing in action") kindly to e-mail me again. If you did receive my personal reply this day on (Sept 4th), then your messages were not corrupted. Sorry to bother you that way. The network provider works fine again. Yours truly, Angelo Schouten (Chem/Phys/Sci.life-extension) d_quale@dds.nl [*] some of the topics I recall: EPR/ESR -DNA bases (in Nederlands), Vitamine B12, Eggs, ... From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 05 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!newsmaster@sheffield From: MDB95NK@shef.ac.uk (Nicolas King) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Cells that live forever Date: 6 Oct 1995 12:48:43 GMT Organization: Medicine/dentistry, University of Sheffield , UK Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4538jb$1fs@hippo.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc077055.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1 Apart from cancer cells, what other non-ageing species exist and have they been documented in any paper? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 06 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!nntp-server.caltech.edu!mac1554.bio.caltech.edu!user From: grovesa@starbase1.caltech.edu (Andrew K. Groves) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Cells that live forever Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 11:46:31 -0700 Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <4538jb$1fs@hippo.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac1554.bio.caltech.edu X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+ In article <4538jb$1fs@hippo.shef.ac.uk>, MDB95NK@shef.ac.uk (Nicolas King) wrote: > Apart from cancer cells, what other non-ageing species exist and > have they been documented in any paper? My bias would be to say that stem cells which renew tissues throughout the life of an animal (such as those in bone marrow, gut or skin) appear to divide for as long as the animal lives. I don't know if this is what you're looking for. I will now pass you over to steve chambers in New Zealand for the alternative view....... (hehe. No offence intended, Steve). Andy -- Andy Groves Division of Biology, 216-76 California Institute of Technology From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!Rezonet.net!titane!comback!nntphost!usenet From: marite@login.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: sugar metabolism and cholesterol Date: 8 Oct 1995 21:45:44 GMT Organization: Login Communication Lines: 6 Message-ID: <459gq8$rtq@tonka.login.qc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: m1l2.login.net X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) I heard about the report on an experience, the result of wich shows a strong correlation between sugar ingestion and the cholesterol level. If you happen to know something on this subject, I would appreciate you tell me about it. Thanks in advance. (Georges Chauvette) marite@login.net From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: h.kugler@ix.netcom.com (Dr. Hans J. Kugler) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Amer. Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine meeting, Dec. 95 Date: 8 Oct 1995 05:43:26 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 7 Message-ID: <457odu$r55@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-lb7-10.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Oct 07 10:43:26 PM PDT 1995 The largest ever anti-aging and anti-aging medicine meeting will be held in Las Vegas, Dec. 9 - 11, 1995, at the Alexis Park Resort. For information: 1-800-5BIOCON. STILL OPEN: CALL FOR POSTER PRESENTATIONS: A4M, 2568 N. Clark St, # 333, Chicago, IL 60614. Hans J. Kugler, PhD Editor, Prev. Med. UP-DATE From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.med,sci.life-extention,misc.health.alternative Subject: Recipe for Immortality - Revised Date: 7 Oct 1995 15:53:04 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 117 Message-ID: <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip16.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2017 bionet.general:17666 sci.med:95770 misc.health.alternative:46715 FROM: Bill Tekatch Due to several requests for copies of the recipe, I have decided to slightly revise it and re-post. I have included some suggestions by newsgroup readers. Please, if you can think of other methods or alternative therapies post them. Also if you see possible work arounds for any of the several difficult steps in the recipe, share them with us. I do not know of anyone currently using the recipe, and it has not been published elsewhere. Notes & Cautions * While the recipe may someday be accepted as the basis of a life extending therapy, it will not give you true immortality. * We will still be subject to death by disease and accident. * Natural memory loss may still continue. * The build up and cross linking of insoluble collagen will cause ever increasing body stiffness. * The fragmentation of elastin will cause the loss of blood vessel wall elasticity. * If the death rate not related to ageing is only 0.5%/yr, there will be fewer than 1% that will live to 1000 years old. In fact only 50% would live to over 138 years. A more optimistic estimate based on a 0.1% per year death rate gives 50% survival to 700 years and 1% to 4600 years. * We still need a cure for cancers such as prostrate cancer which would eventually kill every male that survives long enough. * This process if carried out on the entire population would likely consume 5-10% of GNP. Is the cost justified? * This list of problems is not complete. I am sure there are many more problems that could be added, but that does not mean the recipe does not have merit. For Your Information: L=5.5^0.54 S^-0.34 M^-0.42 Where (L) is mammalian life-span in months (E) is brain mass in grams (S) is body mass in grams and (M) is metabolic rate in calories per gram per hour ***************************************** This is the recipe for immortality. The latest results in the fields of genetic engineering, reproductive technology, and cancer research have provided a foundation for the recipe for immortality. In normal cells, the telomeres or end segments of chromosomes, are slightly shortened each time the cell divides. With the accumulated shortening of the telomeres, the chromosome becomes too short to divide. This process is repeated for all of the cells in the organism. Therefore, eventually the organism will not be able to reproduce enough new cells to maintain life. Nature has been using a method to circumvent this problem with good success for some time. While sexual reproduction can allow a species to maintain itself, the individual organism is less fortunate. To achieve immortality in a multicellular organism it is necessary to regenerate full length chromosomes essentially identical to the state of the existing chromosomes at fertilization. It is not necessary to do this in the existing cells. Artificially prepared cells can be introduced into the organism. This is the basis for Repetitive Internal Self Cloning (RISC). Female Immortality by RISC An egg cell from the organism is injected with the DNA taken from another egg cell from the same organism. Alternatively the egg cell might be stimulated to develop by parthenogenesis. This self fertilized cell is allowed to divide to just short of the point of differentiation. The cells are then introduced into the organism by the blood stream. They will circulate throughout the body and tunnel to all regions. In a short time these new cells will differentiate to become identical to the surrounding tissue, with one very important difference. These new cells are capable of many more divisions than their neighbours. The progeny of these new cells will gradually replace the cells of the surrounding tissue as they eventually die off. This process must be repeated approximately every seven years to ensure a continuous supply of fresh cells. The living mass must be maintained above the critical level at all times lest the entire organism dies. The most critical time will occur when the organisms' birth cells are dying en masse. The mass of new cells must be sufficient so that the organism does not go into the cell death chain reaction. Male Immortality by Risc All factors are the same as for the female but the method is different. An egg cell is required. The donor egg mitochondrial DNA must be compatible with the organism. Therefore the egg must be from the organisms' mother or sister or a verified match. The original DNA is removed from the egg leaving all of the organelles intact. Then the DNA of two sperm cells from the organism is introduced into the egg. This must be repeated more than is required for the female as only the cells containing the XY pair can be used. The artificially produced cell is then cultured and introduced in the same manner as for the female technique. * no references * * no bibliography * Humbly yours, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!biosci!not-for-mail From: sachs@garnet.berkeley.edu () Newsgroups: bionet.cellbiol,bionet.general,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.users.addresses Subject: names, places, research areas? Date: 8 Oct 1995 08:17:15 -0700 Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 8 Sender: biohelp@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <455iod$soq@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Summary: need database Xref: biosci bionet.cellbiol:3109 bionet.general:17673 bionet.molbio.ageing:2020 bionet.users.addresses:2780 1. How do I find names of people who are working in particular scientific areas, and/or are located in particular geographic areas. 2. Example: who in the Boston area is doing research on telomerase? Any help on 1 and/or 2 appreciated. Ideally for someone who has access to WWW & internet, but not to newsgroups. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 07 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!DIRCON.CO.UK!pate From: pate@DIRCON.CO.UK (pate@dircon.co.uk) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Subscribe Date: 8 Oct 1995 07:59:36 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 4 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199510081457.AA07218@felix.dircon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Subscribe Winston Pate London From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 08 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.med,sci.life-extention,misc.health.alternative Subject: Re: Recipe for Immortality - Revised Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Oct 95 18:31:52 +1200 References: <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 29 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2022 bionet.general:17683 sci.med:96000 misc.health.alternative:46891 In <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Ann Tekatch writes: >FROM: Bill Tekatch >This is the recipe for immortality... Hi Bill I must congratulate you on your lateral thinking and enterprise. They're rare qualities. Might I suggest, however, a little reading on say: Teratomas and teratocarcinomas Nuclear memory/genomic imprinting The role of positional information and morphogens in development Have fun. Steve BTW Parthenogenic development can also proceed spontaneously from male germ cells. -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz -----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 08 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!willis.cis.uab.edu!cs.utk.edu!gaia.ns.utk.edu!utcvm.utc.edu!FCOBOS From: FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu (Franklin V. Cobos II) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Ageing and low calorie diet Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 08:49:31 EDT Organization: The University of Tennessee, Chattanooga Lines: 9 Message-ID: <174327C1BS86.FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: utcvm.utc.edu I saw a program on TLC last night called ULTRA Science...there was a segment on there about low calorie diets and how they have been shown to prolong life in mamals. Did anyone else see that? Does anyone have any credible ref. that they could give the group that we could read up on this topic? Franklin- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: healthy1@ix.netcom.com (greg halpern ) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.hiv,bionet.immunology,bionet.molbio.ageing,alt.support.arthritis,alt.support.asthma,alt.support.crohns-colitis,alt.support.cancer,alt.support.depression,alt.support.diet,alt.support.eating-disord Subject: Announcing The Great Health Company's new world-wide web site at http://www.great-health.com/healthy/ Date: 10 Oct 1995 16:55:00 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 19 Message-ID: <45e8h4$qgg@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pal-il3-06.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Oct 10 9:55:00 AM PDT 1995 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.hiv:1671 bionet.immunology:5775 bionet.molbio.ageing:2033 alt.support.arthritis:6846 alt.support.asthma:7873 alt.support.crohns-colitis:10921 alt.support.cancer:11202 alt.support.depression:54965 alt.support.diet:26757 alt.support.eating-disord:10275 The Great Health Company helps people obtain the best resources necessary to quickly achieve health improvement and maximize health and longevity. The Company's services eliminate the frustrating hit or miss approach to wellness. For more information and a Free Health Scorecard, please visit our web site at http://www.great-health.com/healthy/ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: pandoc@ix.netcom.com (charles mccarthy ) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.med,sci.life-extention,misc.health.alternative Subject: Re: Recipe for Immortality - Revised Date: 10 Oct 1995 21:36:45 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 38 Message-ID: <45ep1d$dhg@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sac5-24.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Oct 10 2:36:45 PM PDT 1995 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2036 bionet.general:17758 sci.med:96264 misc.health.alternative:47012 In steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) writes: > >In <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Ann Tekatch writes: >>FROM: Bill Tekatch > > > >>This is the recipe for immortality... > >Hi Bill > >I must congratulate you on your lateral thinking and enterprise. >They're rare qualities. Might I suggest, however, a little reading >on say: > > Teratomas and teratocarcinomas > Nuclear memory/genomic imprinting > The role of positional information and morphogens in development > >Have fun. > >BTW Parthenogenic development can also proceed spontaneously from > male germ cells. > >-- > ________________________ >(I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve chambers > (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz >-----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo---------------------------------- - Steve: What's your point? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.cellbiol,bionet.general,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.users.addresses Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!hgmp.mrc.ac.uk!ebi.ac.uk!EMBL-EBI.ac.uk!harper From: harper@EMBL-EBI.ac.uk (Robert Andrew Lockie Harper) Subject: Re: names, places, research areas? Sender: news@ebi.ac.uk (Mr news) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:37:58 GMT Lines: 19 Reply-To: harper@EMBL-EBI.ac.uk (Robert Andrew Lockie Harper) References: <455iod$soq@agate.berkeley.edu> Organization: European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL) - UK X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-32 Xref: biosci bionet.cellbiol:3145 bionet.general:17749 bionet.molbio.ageing:2035 bionet.users.addresses:2790 In article <455iod$soq@agate.berkeley.edu>, sachs@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes: >1. How do I find names of people who are working in particular >scientific areas, and/or are located in particular geographic areas. > >2. Example: who in the Boston area is doing research on >telomerase? > >Any help on 1 and/or 2 appreciated. Ideally for someone who has >access to WWW & internet, but not to newsgroups. Try the bionauts database at: gopher://gopher.bio.net/ You will find alot of research workers in Boston. RGDS -=ROB=- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!simtel!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-regensburg.de!lrz-muenchen.de!fauern!faui0n.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!uni-erlangen.de!winx03!wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de!krasel From: krasel@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de (Cornelius Krasel) Newsgroups: bionet.cellbiol,bionet.general,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.users.addresses Subject: Re: names, places, research areas? Followup-To: bionet.general Date: 10 Oct 1995 14:50:08 GMT Organization: Dept. of Pharmacology, U Wuerzburg Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <45e170$dau@winx03.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de> References: <455iod$soq@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.cellbiol:3143 bionet.general:17745 bionet.molbio.ageing:2034 bionet.users.addresses:2789 [Followups to bionet.general only] sachs@garnet.berkeley.edu wrote: > 1. How do I find names of people who are working in particular > scientific areas, and/or are located in particular geographic areas. > 2. Example: who in the Boston area is doing research on > telomerase? Maybe the Science Citation Index would help? Or try Medline, although I am not sure whether you can search through researchers' addresses. The Internet currently is not useable for this type of request, IMHO. --Cornelius. -- /* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */ /* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: phak004@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de */ /* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warwick!bsmail!usenet From: Harry.Witchel@bristol.ac.uk (Harry Witchel) Subject: Re: Ageing and low calorie diet Message-ID: Sender: usenet@uns.bris.ac.uk (Usenet news owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: rm2.pys.bris.ac.uk Reply-To: harry.witchel@bristol.ac.uk Organization: Physiology / Med. School / Bristol X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.4 References: <174327C1BS86.FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:18:26 GMT Lines: 37 In article <174327C1BS86.FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu>, FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu (Franklin V. Cobos II) says: > > I saw a program on TLC last night called ULTRA Science...there was a >segment on there about low calorie diets and how they have been shown >to prolong life in mamals. Did anyone else see that? Does anyone >have any credible ref. that they could give the group that we could >read up on this topic? > >Franklin- > > Hello! Caloric restriction leading to retardation of the aging process in rats has a long history in academic science. The original reference dates back to 1935: C McCay, M Crowell, L Maynard (1935). "The effect of retarded growth upon the length of life and upon ultimate size." Journal of Nutrition, vol 10, p.63-79. At the time the discovery was not acclaimed because the 1930s were obsessed with the new vitamins being discovered, whereas this paper was sort of a less is more thing. Many other researchers have validated the original claim that in rodents low calorie diets cause extended mean life time, extended maximum lifespan, and other indicators of aging (coat quality, disease resistance, etc.). Currently the US expert is EJ Masoro, and an example might be: EJ Masoro, I Shimokawa, and BP Yu "Retardation of the aging processes in rats by food restriction" Annals NY Academy of Sciences (1991) v.621, p. 337. I am not certain as to the work on primates, but I vaguely remember seeing an abstract by Richard Cutler reviewing primate caloric restriction. Harry Witchel From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 09 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!aol.com!GrillKing From: GrillKing@aol.com Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing and low calorie diet Date: 10 Oct 1995 04:41:42 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 11 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <951010073956_120282951@mail06.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net There are primate studies going on at the NIH (Cutler and Ingram) and the University of Wisconsin (Ershler and Weindruch). Primates live a long time, so it's still too early to see if dietary restriction has an effect on longevity. I seem to recall that the Wisconsin researchers have seen some beneficial effects on immune function. Of course, the best-known DR researcher is Roy Walford, who's written a couple of books on the subject, most notably The 120 Year Diet. Walford himself claims to have been eating a calorie-restricted diet for years. Hmmm. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 10 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!USIBR01.USI.EDU!mmcwilli From: mmcwilli@USIBR01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: melatonin safety Date: 10 Oct 1995 18:03:22 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 14 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net To whom it may concern, I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. Please send response to:mmcwilli@risc.usi.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 10 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: mll6@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: melatonin safety Date: 11 Oct 1995 15:13:48 -0400 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <45h51c$39em@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns1-1.cc.lehigh.edu In article , mmcwilli@USIBR 01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") writes: > >To whom it may concern, > > I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had >about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements >produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and >I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of >the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been >banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. >What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? >Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. > > >Please send response to:mmcwilli@risc.usi.edu > I read a short story about the tryptophan banning in a nutrition book. Basically, the story is that a Japanese manufacturer of tryptophan sold 'bad' quantities of it..'bad' because they were infected with a microbiological organism (I forget the name) and caused several deaths. As far as I know, tryptophan is by itself, harmless within some range (and good for sleep quality); Its naturally high in milk and banannas (sp.? :>). Of course my info is from reading the book. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Oct 11 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!homer04.u.washington.edu!hubio543 From: Pharmacology Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: melatonin safety Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:38:22 -0700 Organization: University of Washington Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <45h51c$39em@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: homer04.u.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NNTP-Posting-User: hubio543 In-Reply-To: <45h51c$39em@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> It was not bacterial contamination that caused harmful batches of tryptophan. The Japanese company that produced tryptophan performed certain genetic manipulations of the organism that they had used for a number of years to make tryptophan. The manipulation significantly increased the yield of tryptophan. However, according to the laws of unintended consequences, a new compound was also formed. I won't give the chemical name, but it was subsequently identified as 'peak E'. It was present in VERY MINUTE quantities. In fact, the tryptophan being sold with peak E as a minor contaminant was very pure. It would pass all normal requirements for purity. However, not long after the new batches were sold, reports of 'problems' came in from Germany. But the company did not believe that their product could be defective (after all it was very pure - and the yields were great) so they kept selling. It was only after some excellent medical and epidemiological sleuthing that the cause of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) was discovered. Fortunately, the sleuths worked relatively rapidly and the defective material was withdrawn. Of course, the FDA in its infinite wisdom banned ALL tryptophan. DUMB!. The cause of EMS is now known, and one can now test all trypthophan for it, but NO - simpler for a bureaucracy to simply ban something. On 11 Oct 1995 mll6@Lehigh.EDU wrote: > In article , mmcwilli@USIBR > 01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") writes: > > > >To whom it may concern, > > > > I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had > >about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements > >produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and > >I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of > >the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been > >banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. > >What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? > >Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. > > > > > >Please send response to:mmcwilli@risc.usi.edu > > > I read a short story about the tryptophan banning in a nutrition book. > Basically, the story is that a Japanese manufacturer of tryptophan sold 'bad' > quantities of it..'bad' because they were infected with a microbiological > organism (I forget the name) and caused several deaths. As far as I know, > tryptophan is by itself, harmless within some range (and good for sleep > quality); Its naturally high in milk and banannas (sp.? :>). Of course my > info is from reading the book. > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Oct 11 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: melatonin safety (fwd) Date: 12 Oct 1995 07:55:01 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 11 Oct 1995 15:13:48 -0400 From:mll6@Lehigh.EDU To: ageing@net.bio.net Subject: Re: melatonin safety In article , mmcwilli@USIBR 01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") writes: > >To whom it may concern, > > I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had >about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements >produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and >I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of >the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been >banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. >What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? >Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. > > >Please send response to:mmcwilli@risc.usi.edu > I read a short story about the tryptophan banning in a nutrition book. Basically, the story is that a Japanese manufacturer of tryptophan sold 'bad' quantities of it..'bad' because they were infected with a microbiological organism (I forget the name) and caused several deaths. As far as I know, tryptophan is by itself, harmless within some range (and good for sleep quality); Its naturally high in milk and banannas (sp.? :>). Of course my info is from reading the book.  From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 13 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: melatonin safety Message-ID: <9zAgwAQDBh107h@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 15:18:21 +1200 References: Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 44 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2045 sci.life-extension:7691 >On 11 Oct 1995 mll6@Lehigh.EDU wrote: >> In article , mmcwilli@USIBR >> 01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") writes: >> > I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had >> >about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements >> >produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and >> >I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of >> >the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been >> >banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. >> >What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? >> >Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. In Pharmacology writes: >It was not bacterial contamination that caused harmful batches of >tryptophan. I won't give >the chemical name, but it was subsequently identified as 'peak E'. It >was present in VERY MINUTE quantities. In fact, the tryptophan being >sold with peak E as a minor contaminant was very pure. It would pass all >normal requirements for purity. It was only after some excellent medical >and epidemiological sleuthing that the cause of eosinophilia-myalgia >syndrome (EMS) was discovered. My understanding is that the jury is still out as to what it is (was) about tryptophan that contributed to eosinophilia. Several lines of evidence suggest that tryp and melatonin are not completely off the hook so far as this matter is concerned. So far as Mel. is concerned: 1) Melatonin dramatically increases IL-2 induced eosinophilia. 2) Melatonin stimulates myeloma growth. (myeloma is a cancer stemming from cells that (many of which) go on to become eosinophils. BTW Mssr le Pharmacology, I'd be curious to see the structure of "Peak E" if you have it. Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz -----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 13 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!relay-4.mail.demon.net From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: UK Government Agency Bans Melatonin Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 10:31:07 GMT Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 44 Message-ID: <544177025wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: relay-4.mail.demon.net X-Broken-Date: Saturday, Oct 14, 1995 10.31.07 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2046 sci.life-extension:7703 The UK government is spawning "Agencies" at an alarming rate. These agencies have alarming powers, sometimes even in excess of those of the traditional police, judiciary or legislature. The latest story to emerge in Saturday's "Finanical Times" is that the Medicines Control Agency has issued a fiat to all retailers that they must cease selling Melatonin within 14 days. Even the USA's draconican FDA has not taken such a step, the paper says. The agency admits that it has no evidence that Melatonin is unsafe, but has simply declared it to be a medicine and that it requires the usual run of expensive and time consuming tests before it can be offered to the public for consumption. Most suppliers are expected to comply as they can't risk entanglement with such dangerous people as the MCA. No suppliers will submit the hormone to be tested as the high cost cannot be recovered from sales as it is unpatentable. Earthforce, of Belfast, told the FT that it will sell it my mail from the United States. It would be difficult to enfoce a ban on using Melatonin, as this hormone is naturally present in every human body. Declare it illegal, and the entire population would have to be imprisoned, including the MCA staff. The FT said that the MCA were concerned at suggestions that Melatonin may be extending maximum lifespan. Consumption has increased substantially following the publiation of books and magazine articles. I suggest it is possible that the UK government are concered as to the pension and elderly care implications if maximum lifespan is extended without any comparable extension of good health. -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 13 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Funds for ageing research Date: 14 Oct 1995 05:24:38 -0700 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 43 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear Colleagues, Funds are available for joint scientific research and scientific meetings in 1996-1997 with the deadline of joint grant application by December, 1995. The scientific areas for collaboration with our research group are rather wide and include virtually all the topics discussed in our book 'THE BIOLOGY OF LIFE SPAN: A QUANTITATIVE APPROACH', 1991, Harwood Academic Publishers, ISBN: 3-7186-4983-7. Within this wide range of scientific topics a special priority will be given to the projects on longevity research (determinants of human longevity, centenarian studies, collection and analysis of genealogical data for longevity research, etc.). 3 groups of countries are eligible to receive funds for collaboration with our group: 1. Germany 2. China 3. Countries of the former Soviet Union except Russia itself Scientists of the eligible countries are kindly invited to send declarations of intent and their CVs to the E-mail address mentioned in this message. Information about our research group and our publications (including the book) could be received upon the request or at URL: http://alpha.genebee.msu.su/au/gavrilov-la/ Since the number of joint projects for funding is restricted, those who respond first have the highest chances to receive funds. Sincerely yours, Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. Principal Research Scientist Moscow State University Moscow, Russia From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 13 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!uunet!in2.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!pipeline!not-for-mail From: rkeysphd@nyc.pipeline.com (Ronald B. Keys J.D. Ph.D) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Melatonin Date: 14 Oct 1995 08:19:19 -0400 Organization: The Pipeline Lines: 72 Message-ID: <45o9s7$ene@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com MELATONIN:WHEN TO USE IT: THE REQUIREMENT FOR A PATIENT-SPECIFIC APPROACH Dear colleagues, Usually, at the time of middle age, peak nocturnal melatonin deficiency/insufficiency states start to appear. This has been postulated to bring about internal de-synchronization that either causes or contributes to developmental disorders that range from subclinical to clinical manifestations of functional declines along key metabolic paramenters. The brain axes affected by this de-synchronization are the hypothalmic-pituitary adrenal axis, thyroidal and gonadol axis. There is an increasingly cumulative influence of this de-synchronization that is highly individual from patient to patient. There is no singular process called aging but rather a decline in functional capacities along key biochemical pathways that affect ranges of function. AGING IS MULTIFACTORIAL and not the result of any singular biochemical pathway. In evaluating the aging phenomena of a individual patient, one has to get beyond the single substance deficiency hypothesis and realize that multiple hormones are involved in multiple biochemical pathways. How are these various biochemical pathways profiled in this particular patient? What is the steady state metabolism of these specific pathways? If any of these pathways, including the melatonin, retinal pineal tract connection are downregulated, showing a functional decline, how much is needed for a mass action affect in the tissues to bring back a youthful equilibrium state? This information can only come from knowing the patient and not something that one gets solely from trolling the usernet groups and simply downloading information alone. Extensive patient-databasing is necessary to answer the question of when, enough is enough for a particular hormone support. For example, I had a professional patient consult with me about how much melatonin to use nightly. It turns out HE/SHE was using 12 to 18 cups of coffee per day and had a serious caffeine addiction problem. He was also using NYTOL everynight and wanted to know if he could still use the NYTOL while keeping his coffee intake stable!! And start using melatonin!!! There is no substitute for extensive patient-databasing. A clinician has to determine 1. What is triggering the patient's condition? Is it a melatonin or some other hormone deficiency/insufficiency state? If it isn't, DON'T USE IT. 2. What are the underlying metabolic pathways? 3. What are the antecedents in the patient's life? Diathesis in this patient's family and life history? Why these symptoms here and now? What other life style or other metabolic circuits, cascades and loops are causing or contributing to this patient's symptoms? Most conditions are mediated by multiple biochemical pathways. People vary as to whether they are functionally, middle aged or not at any given chronological age. They should be databased by a professional before deciding to use melatonin and how much of it to use, even though it is available over the counter. It is difficult for most people to use the orthomolecular approach that advocates the right supplement in the right amount at the right place at the right time and with the correct amount. Timing and basic precepts of circadian biology are everything in orthomolecular strategies. Each patient is an irreproducible work of art, special and having biochemical individuality. Sincerely, Ronald B. Keys, JD, PhD (rkeysphd@nyc.pipeline.com), Queens, NYC & Mineola, L.I., American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicne, Co-Director, American Aging Association, American Academy of Clinical Gerontology, International Association of Biomedical Gerontology, National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, Certified: Functional Assessments & Interventions, ART 81, NY MHL, Certified: Interdisciplinary Geriatrics: Columbia University--NY Geriatric Education Center, Director of Clinical Services, Forensic & Patient Support Services, (718) 460-3966 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!torn!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.med,sci.life-extention,misc.health.alternative Subject: Re: Recipe for Immortality - Revised Date: 15 Oct 1995 08:34:32 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 20 Message-ID: <45qh2o$l99@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> References: <4567p0$12v@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <45ep1d$dhg@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip44.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2049 bionet.general:17910 sci.med:96972 misc.health.alternative:47370 FROM: Bill Tekatch pandoc@ix.netcom.com (charles mccarthy ) wrote: > Steve: > > What's your point? Dear Charles, I believe that Steve is saying creativity is good, and that creativity is better with more knowledge. I am looking forward to your positive, imaginative and helpful input! Humbly yours, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!nntp.hk.super.net!tst.hk.super.net!slip207 From: hkfyghq@hk.super.net (Jacky Pang) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Productive Ageing/Positive Ageing Date: 15 Oct 1995 15:45:05 GMT Organization: Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups Lines: 5 Message-ID: <45raa1$kja@tst.hk.super.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip207.hk.super.net Keywords: ageing X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 I am working on a project of Productive/Positive Ageing in Hong Kong. Anyone have literatures, questionnaires, relevant research, programmes or ideas that can share with me? Thank you. Mei Lin From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!HK.SUPER.NET!hkfyghq From: hkfyghq@HK.SUPER.NET (Jacky Pang) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Positive Ageing Date: 15 Oct 1995 08:55:29 -0700 Organization: Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups Lines: 7 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199510151553.XAA21758@hk.super.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Keywords: Ageing I am working on a project on Positive Ageing in Hong Kong. Anyone who have ideas in this topic, such as relevant literatures, programmes, experience, ideas or questionnaires, and would like to share with me, please forward to my e-mail at: hkfyghq@hk.super.net Thank you. Mei Lin From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Oct 14 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.hk.super.net!tst.hk.super.net!slip207 From: hkfyghq@hk.super.net (Jacky Pang) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Positive Ageing Date: 15 Oct 1995 15:53:30 GMT Organization: Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups Lines: 7 Message-ID: <45rapq$kja@tst.hk.super.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip207.hk.super.net Keywords: Ageing X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 I am working on a project on Positive Ageing in Hong Kong. Anyone who have ideas in this topic, such as relevant literatures, programmes, experience, ideas or questionnaires, and would like to share with me, please forward to my e-mail at: hkfyghq@hk.super.net Thank you. Mei Lin From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 15 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!relay-4.mail.demon.net From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: /\/ Codex \/\ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:03:28 GMT Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 314 Message-ID: <566561669wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: relay-4.mail.demon.net X-Broken-Date: Monday, Oct 16, 1995 11.03.28 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Special International Report Changing the Rules: How Rewriting the Codex Alimentarious Could Change the Way We Get Dietary Supplements by Suzanne Harris, J.D. Editor's Note: Almost entirely unnoticed and unreported by magazines and organizations that are interested in health freedom, the little known Codex Alimentarious Commission in Rome is studying a proposal from the German Government that could radically change the availability of dietary supplements to consumers around the world. Because of the potential significance of these proposals, Health Keeper's Journal has prepared this special international update in order to keep our readers fully informed on issues and events that matter. Kurt Donsbach K.D.: Suzanne, can you explain to our readers how the Codex works and why its activities are so important? S.H. Yes. It is important to remind our readers that in the post- GATT world, some very important things occur at the international level. Under the new GATT, all member nations including the United Nations and most of Europe must avoid creating trade barriers that impede the flow of food stuffs and other food products in international trade. Under the new GATT, each nation must review its regulations that govern the manufacture and importation of foods so that its rules conform to, are "harmonized" with the new international standards. Each country can either accept the Codex Alimentarious standards for food quality, food labeling and food content and food manufacturing standards, or create its own standards provided the standards created by the member country are created with conformity with GATT standards on cost/benefit analysis and GATT standards on creating and reviewing scientific data in order to engage in risk assessment. K.D. It sounds like it would be much easier for any country that has signed the new GATT treaty to just accept the Codex Alimentarious standards rather than to try to create its own standards. S.H.: Yes, not only is it easier but its safer too. If any nation attempts to create its own standards rather than simply follow the Codex standards, that nation runs the risk of being sanctioned (fined) by the new World Trade Organization until its standards are brought into conformity with the new GATT requirements. We need to remember here that the sanctions can be quite severe. Whole sections of a nation's economy can be penalized until that nation's regulations are brought into conformity with GATT. The whole GATT process makes the content of the Codex Alimentarious very, very important to the people of each nation that has joined the new World Trade Association by signing GATT. K.D.: When the United States signed the new GATT treaty and the treaty was then ratified by Congress, didn't the Congress know what the Codex Alimentarious contained? In other words, didn't we know what we were agreeing to before we signed and ratified the agreement? S.H.: Yes and no. I'm sure that the leadership of both parties in Congress knew what the Codex said at the time that Congress ratified the new GATT treaty. However, what we signed onto was more of an agreement to engage in a particular type of rule making process rather than an agreement to follow certain substantive rules that were set in concrete. We knew when we signed GATT that things like the content of the Codex Alimentarious will inevitably change over time. What few of us expected was that the Codex would start to change so rapidly. Lets take a little time here to talk about how changes are made to the Codex. The Codex Commission itself consists of "delegates". Each delegation represents either a country or an international organization. The Commission has meetings every two years. Any delegation can submit a proposal to change the content of the Codex. That proposal for change then goes through a long period of review and each delegate is entitled to submit formal comments in response to the new proposal. Votes on new proposals are taken at various stages in the process. Eventually new parts of the Codex are worked out and made a formal part of the official Codex Alimentarious. D.K.: Has something happened at the Codex Commission meeting that is especially significant? S.H.: Yes. The German delegation which represents the German government has proposed that an entirely new set of rules be established that would govern dietary supplements. The German proposal is called the "Proposed Draft Guidelines for Dietary Supplements (Vitamins and Minerals)." Within the German proposal are suggestions that: 1) no dietary supplement be sold for prophylactic (preventive) use or for therapeutic use. Any dietary supplement for prophylactic or therapeutic use would automatically be classified as a drug. 2) No dietary supplement sold as a food could exceed potency (dosage) levels set by the commission, 3) Codex regulations for dietary supplements would become binding. This means that as to dietary supplements the escape clause in GATT that gives a nation the ability to set its own standards within the GATT rules would be eliminated. And an additional hidden effect would be 4) That all new dietary supplements would automatically be banned unless and until they went through a Codex approval process. K.D.: This sounds very dangerous. Is there anything that we can do about this? Should we all write to Congress? S.H.: On the surface of things, there is very little that we can do about this. We have effectively given away most of our sovereignty as a nation on this issue. Congress no longer has the last word here. Instead of a legislative body writing and reviewing the legislation that matters, these vital decisions will all be made by an international commission. The membership of this international commission consists of: country delegations which as a practical matter means that the entire United States delegation is being represented by a single delegate from the FDA and a few pre- approved delegates from international organizations. I've looked at a partial list of the international organizations that are allowed to send delegates. Over ninety percent of these international organizations are manufacturers organizations. The only "consumer" organization that I saw listed was the International Organization of Consumers Unions. This means that the general public is virtually unrepresented at this vital process. Your pet dog or cat has more say on what he eats for dinner in your kitchen than you or I have in this international process. Even the FDA has relatively little say on certain key aspects of this process. for example, the United States delegation was the only nation-state delegation that opposed the idea of setting up new dietary supplement standards within the Codex. We were outvoted so the process of beginning go re-write the Codex on dietary supplements has started over our protest. The Codex Commission is presently reviewing the German proposal at what the Codex Commission calls the "step three stage." The step three stage is very important because it is the point at which a proposal is formalized and written responses and debate over the specific features of the new proposal are discussed. I doubt writing to Congress will do much good at this point. It is doubtful too that writing to the FDA will help much although writing to the FDA is a good place to start doing the things that we have to do in order to try to defeat this project. D.K.: Can you tell us step by step what we can and should do? S.H.: Yes. First: 1) Write or fax to Dr. Robert Moore, Office of Special Nutritionals, HFS-356, 200 C Steet, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20204, fax: (202)205-5295 before October 18, 1995. Tell Dr. Moore that you are opposed to 1) making the Codex standards for dietary supplements binding, 2) setting International potency/dose limitations on dietary supplements; 3) classifying dietary supplements for prophylactic/preventive use in drugs; 4) any rule or regulation that would result in automatically classifying new dietary supplements as drugs. [Note: Your fax or letter will be most effective if received by the FDA before October 18th, however, you may still be able to make some difference if you write or fax before November 30th.] I should add that there is much more that needs to be done here. We need to establish a serious study group that takes a thorough and hard look at: 1) the new European Union regulations on dietary supplements, 2) thoroughly studies all the various Codex and GATT related international proposals regarding dietary supplements and studies the new structure that are being put into place to design this and other international regulations. Coming up in the next issue of Health Keeper's Journal: New International proposals to regulate the labeling of dietary supplements. c.1995 The Health Keepers Journal and the Law Loft Notice and warning regarding copyright restrictions: no reproduction or excerpt of this material may be made, reproduced or circulated unless the material is identified as an article from the Health Keeper's Journal, volume 2, number 10, october 1995 written by Suzanne Harris, J. D. of the Law Loft For further information about subscriptions to the Health Keeper's Journal and about reprints of this and other Health Keepers Journal articles about health legislation and/or GATT, write or fax to: Health Keeper's Journal 880 Canarios Court Ste. 210 Chula Vista, California 91910 FAX (619) 482-4485? Saul Kent read the article by Suzanne Harris which I posted in message number 47868 in this newsgroup, and he will be interviewing her soon for an in depth article on the subject of Codex and the international threat it poses to our health freedom. Saul wants me to link with as many people as possible in different countries for the purpose of forming an international coalition to oppose the Codex Alimentarious Commission's efforts to destroy our health freedom. I am in touch with some people in other countries, most notably Canada, Norway and England, but need assistance with this. You'll understand what I'm talking about if you read message 47867. We haven't reported on this threat yet in the magazine because we only recently found out about it through a leak on the other side who called my attention to it. Although Suzanne's article specifically relates the Codex activities to the US, what she reports applies just as much to Canada, and the implications are chilling. I urge everyone reading this to go back and read message number 47867 and help get a threat going on it because its a threat that no one can afford to ignore. Mark Jensen (mjensen@crl.com) wrote: Big feud between CERI and LEF. They have been going at it for years. You can get CERI's version in some of the back issues of their newsletter. For those of us who don't have access to this material, could you please post a brief summary of CERI's version. Thank you. From memory. Steve Fowkes was one of the founders of VRP. LEF and VRP were competing furiously. Rumors that LEF badmouthed VRP into serious financial difficulty. Rumors that LEF plagiarized Smart Drugs & Nutrients (compare LEF's Physician's Guide to Life Extension Drugs). I have not heard LEF's version. I certainly would be interested in hearing it, but I suspect that John Hammel may not have the whole story, and I can't imagine Saul Kent or Bill Faloon coming here to tell us their side. It would be interesting but would probably waste a whole lot of bandwidth. Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Believe me, I have heard both sides of the story and have no desire to perpetuate a feud between two organizations which need to be able to communicate and share information. For the record, I have the highest respect for Steve Fowkes and have been communicating regularly with him for several months now in the interests of health freedom. As far as I'm concerned, all of us have a choice: we can either hang together, or we will hang separately. The FDA isn't even our biggest problem anymore. The Codex Alimentarious Commission of the UN/WHO is. They are trying to destroy health freedom all over the world through the tie in with GATT. If we don't all work to bury hatchets and focus on defending our health freedom, we will no longer continue to have access to melatonin, or any other supplements because they will only be available in very low doses or as patented, prescription drug analogs. Through Codex, the international drug cartel is attempting a global takeover of the dietary supplement industry. If you want my take on the feud between CERI and LEF, its like this: it took place before I started working here, and as far as I'm concerned, its over. Don't ask me publicly or privately what I think of what transpired, because I don't want to be a part of it. Its over. CERI and LEF need to work together. We all do, actually just as Steve Fowkes and I have been for the past few months. There is a dire need to form an international coalition to fight Codex. We need to rapidly compile the phone and fax numbers and addresses of the agencies in various countries that can be appealed to regarding this, and we need to develop some grass roots strength very fast. If we do not, it will be terrible, really terrible because we will lose access to dietary supplements beyond very low dosages world wide as the drug companies move in and take over with their analogs. -- John Hammell, Political Coordinator, The Life Extension Foundation 800-333-2553, 305-929-2905, 305-929-0507 FAX jhammell@ix.netcom.com http://www.webcom.com/~lef/index.html **For Complimentary Copy Life Extension Magazine-Send Street Address** From: John Hammell Subject: Re: Life Extension Foundation... To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk jhey@iii2.iii.net (John Hey) asked: ... (aka Prolongevity, et al) seems to be conspicuously absent from the list of domestic suppliers in 'www.ceri.com'. Is there a noteworthy reason? mjensen@crl.com (Mark Jensen) answered Big feud between CERI and LEF. They have been going at it for years. You can get CERI's version in some of the back issues of their newsletter. John de Rivaz commented: Fools fight in burning houses. John- I agree. Please help me generate a thread re the Codex Alimentarious Commission of the UN/WHO. Dr Suzanne Harris' article which I've posted (following this article) calls attention to a very serious international problem. Saul wants me to form an international coalition to fight it. Can you help? I need people in different countries to find out how to fight it in their country by letting us all know the names addresses phone and fax numbers of the people to contact in their country in an effort to fight it. What really disturbs me is that I've seen posts recently where onerous legislation is pending in different parts of the world attacking dietary supplements and the language all goes back to Codex. In Canada and in England this is happening now and will soon in the US. If the US falls to Codex, the world will lose an awful lot. Please help. Steve Fowkes and I get along really well and have been sharing information for months. If anyone tries to restart the feud, do me a favor and help to stop it. We can't afford a feud. There could easily be some people posting here who work for the pharmaceutical industry who might try to be agent provacateurs and might try to re-start it. If they do, I will not get involved except to say that its unbelievable stupid. People have no idea what we are facing right now. Please read message number 8048 and help get a thread going. Thanks, John Hammell -- John Hammell, Political Coordinator, The Life Extension Foundation 800-333-2553, 305-929-2905, 305-929-0507 FAX jhammell@ix.netcom.com http://www.webcom.com/~lef/index.html **Complimentary Copy Life Extension Magazine: Send Street Address* -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 16 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dobbles@aol.com (Dobbles) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Best molbio.ageing grad schools and researchers Date: 17 Oct 1995 09:12:36 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 6 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <460a44$f0n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: dobbles@aol.com (Dobbles) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I am currently applying to graduate schools in molecular biology. My interest is in the biomolecular causes of ageing. I am looking for any leads anyone might have into the best graduate schools and the best researchers in this area. -- Mike Dobbles From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 16 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Mortality trends in elderly Date: 17 Oct 1995 06:52:29 -0700 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 30 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear Colleagues, Now I am working on the grant application under the title: MORTALITY TRENDS AMONG THE RUSSIAN ELDERLY: COMPARATIVE MULTIDISCIPLINARY STUDY The preliminary results of this study were presented at the III European Congress of Gerontology (Amsterdam, August 31, 1995), abstract No.020.0025 and were also published in Longevity Report, vol.9, No.52, pp.3-4, 1995. See also my book "The Biology of Life Span: A Quantitative Approach", 1991, Harwood Academic Publisher, ISBN: 3-7186-4983-7 for additional information. The scientists of high standing interested to support this study just by signing the letter of support are kindly invited to contact me by E-mail (gavrilov@ilr.rc.ac.ru) before the application deadline (October 20, 1995). Sincerely yours, Dr.Natalia S.Gavrilova, Ph.D. Senior Research Scientist Institute for Systems Analysis, Russian Academy of Sciences Moscow, Russia  From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 16 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: unsubscribe Date: 17 Oct 1995 18:13:35 +0100 Lines: 1 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <460o7v$1of@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.uk unsubscribe AGEING From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Oct 18 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: livelongg@aol.com (LiveLongg) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing and low calorie diet Date: 18 Oct 1995 21:49:18 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 3 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <464aqu$dl8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <174327C1BS86.FCOBOS@utcvm.utc.edu> Reply-To: livelongg@aol.com (LiveLongg) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Franklin, a very credible researcher (Dr. Roy Walford) has published several books on his studies. One is called "The 120 year diet", and it is fantastic. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Oct 18 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.teleport.com!not-for-mail From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: melatonin safety Date: 19 Oct 1995 10:33:00 -0700 Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 120 Message-ID: <46624c$7fd@kelly.teleport.com> References: <45h51c$39em@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: kelly.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Pharmacology (hubio543@u.washington.edu) wrote: : It was not bacterial contamination that caused harmful batches of : tryptophan. The Japanese company that produced tryptophan performed : certain genetic manipulations of the organism that they had used for a : number of years to make tryptophan. The manipulation significantly : increased the yield of tryptophan. However, according to the laws of : unintended consequences, a new compound was also formed. I won't give : the chemical name, but it was subsequently identified as 'peak E'. It : was present in VERY MINUTE quantities. In fact, the tryptophan being : sold with peak E as a minor contaminant was very pure. It would pass all : normal requirements for purity. : However, not long after the new batches were sold, reports of 'problems' : came in from Germany. But the company did not believe that their product : could be defective (after all it was very pure - and the yields were : great) so they kept selling. It was only after some excellent medical : and epidemiological sleuthing that the cause of eosinophilia-myalgia : syndrome (EMS) was discovered. Fortunately, the sleuths worked : relatively rapidly and the defective material was withdrawn. : Of course, the FDA in its infinite wisdom banned ALL tryptophan. DUMB!. : The cause of EMS is now known, and one can now test all trypthophan for : it, but NO - simpler for a bureaucracy to simply ban something. : On 11 Oct 1995 mll6@Lehigh.EDU wrote: : > In article , mmcwilli@USIBR : > 01.USI.EDU ("Mark A. McWilliams") writes: : > > : > >To whom it may concern, : > > : > > I was looking for someone to correspond to about questions I had : > >about melatonin. The questions I had are: How is melatonin supplements : > >produced? I've been reading various books and articles on melatonin and : > >I've discovered something very shocking. Melatonin is a by-product of : > >the amino acid tryptophan, right! The supplement tryptophan has been : > >banned do to bad side effects produced by making synthetic tryptophan. : > >What if they made melatonin out of synthetically produced tryptophan? : > >Would that pose a health hazard? Just wondering. : > > : > > : > >Please send response to:mmcwilli@risc.usi.edu : > > : > I read a short story about the tryptophan banning in a nutrition book. : > Basically, the story is that a Japanese manufacturer of tryptophan sold 'bad' : > quantities of it..'bad' because they were infected with a microbiological : > organism (I forget the name) and caused several deaths. As far as I know, : > tryptophan is by itself, harmless within some range (and good for sleep : > quality); Its naturally high in milk and banannas (sp.? :>). Of course my : > info is from reading the book. : > : > About Melatonin safety -- Melatonin can be made from various starting points. Currently, most manufacturers are starting with 5-hydroxytryptophan, which is several steps enzymatically removed from tryptophan. There appear to be several major manufacturers, although this has been difficult to track down. The large wholesalers who broker melatonin are unwilling to reveal their sources for fear that people down the line will go directly to the source, cutting them out of the loop. From what I have been able to gather, Helsinn in Switzerland has been a major manufacturer but is no longer. The purest melatonin appears to be manufactured by a Japanese producer who is now out of material. This is reputed to be 99.9 % pure as determined by mass spec. Interestingly, the purer the product is, the more it costs. There is currently some melatonin that is 99.8 percent pure at $10,000 a kilo. There is also some that is 99.2 pure for $5,000 per kilo. My current information is that Life Extension has some of the ultra pure melatonin. You can order from them at 1-800-841-5433. (I am not connected with them in any way.) If any other company wants to fax me there melatonin assays, I will be happy to recommend them, too. Jo Robinson, coauthor with Dr. Russel J. Reiter of Melatonin: Your Body's Natural WOnder Drug. BTW, Russ is appearing on 20/20 on Nov 3. Hopefully, the show will address some of the science, not just the sensationalism. Jo -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 19 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!usenet From: Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: (no subject) Date: 20 Oct 1995 00:19:43 GMT Organization: University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 4 Message-ID: <466puv$eet@saba.info.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lsclab11.lifesci.ucla.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: ysong@ewald.mbi.ucla.edu X-URL: news:bionet.molbio.ageing IS there any direct evidence to show the relationship between P53 and ageing? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Oct 20 23:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: new address of prof. S. Nishimura Date: 21 Oct 1995 21:23:49 +0100 Lines: 9 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <46bksl$o40@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.uk I'm loojing for the present address of prof. S. Nishimura. He published in collaboration with Y. Kuchino and others the paper entitled: "Misreading of DNA tamplates containing 8-hydroxydeoxyguanosine at the modified base and at adjacent residues" Nature, vol. 327, 77-79 (1987), and with J. Tchou and others "8-oxoguanine (8-hydroxyguanine) DNA glycosylase and its substrate specificity" Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, vol 88, 4690-4694 (1991). If prof. Nishimura or other related person could attent my request I would be greatful. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Oct 22 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: mll6@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: melatonin safety Date: 22 Oct 1995 18:50:34 -0400 Lines: 17 Message-ID: <46ehrq$3uhq@ns3-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns3-1.cc.lehigh.edu > My current information is that Life Extension has some of the ultra >pure melatonin. You can order from them at 1-800-841-5433. (I am not >connected with them in any way.) If any other company wants to fax me there >melatonin assays, I will be happy to recommend them, too. > ?>+-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ >| Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | >| (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | >+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y----- + > What is 'Life Extension'? And what is melatonin's relation to human longevity? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 23 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: lrek@aol.com (LREK) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: melatonin safety Date: 23 Oct 1995 20:33:21 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 2 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <46hc8h$a84@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <9zAgwAQDBh107h@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz> Reply-To: lrek@aol.com (LREK) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2068 sci.life-extension:7874 You would not be implying that something that is beneficial to 99.99% of the people should be banned because it might harm the other .01?, are you? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 24 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!usenet From: Dave Combs Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: New Book for Caregivers on Alzheimers Date: 25 Oct 1995 01:28:24 GMT Organization: Combs Music Lines: 27 Message-ID: <46k3ro$r93@allnews.infi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: h-shining.nr.infi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; PPC) X-URL: news:bionet.molbio.ageing I would like to invite you to visit the new Internet home page of my book entitled, "A Long Good-Bye (Reflections on Dealing with Alzheimers." Just point your WWW browser to http://www.infi.net/~combsdm/ALG.html If you do not have access to the WWW, feel free to send me email at LindaCombs@aol.com if you would like more information. The book has already been very helpful to many people dealing with Alzheimers. Perhaps it could be of help to you too. The book contains a collection of my thoughts and feelings as I have dealt with this dread disease since 1951 with my maternal grandmother, my mother (still living), an aunt and an uncle. I guess you could say that I am on a crusade to find the cure for this disease. I travel around the country giving two or three speeches a week to various medical and caregiver related groups about Alzheimers. I am 49 now, only two years away from the age at which we started noticing the early symptoms of Alzheimers in my mother. So, time is precious in the search for the cure. Dr. Linda Combs From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 26 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!theoblit From: theoblit@wam.umd.edu (Jason Taylor) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: An unscientific discussion on Telomeres and ageing Date: 27 Oct 1995 03:08:13 GMT Organization: University of Maryland College Park Lines: 272 Distribution: world Message-ID: <46piet$59k@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rac10.wam.umd.edu Summary: Telomeres and ageing Keywords: Telomeres and ageing This post contains a series of informal e-mail exchanges that occured in a nice "quite" listserve regarding the possible roles of telomeres in aging. I promised to the person who originally started the thread, who doesn't have "news," to post them here on his behalf. Enjoy! --Jason Taylor From: "Rothstein, Mark" Subject: Telomerase and ageing Date: 13 Oct 1995 11:45:29 +0100 I'm presently taking a course on molecular biology of the cell, and we got to the part describing DNA replication. The normal procedure of replication used by the cell for copying the 6 x 10^7 base pairs (per chromosome) just doesn't work on the ends (the telomeres). As a result, at each cell replication, 10 base pairs may go uncopied. Over time, some key gene may go unduplicated, and a cell may die for lack of this critical information. To compensate, eucaryote cells have an enzyme called telomerase which adds on one or more copies of a non-coding DNA sequence to the telomere. This sequence then becomes a "throw-away," and key information further up on the chromosome is saved. Does anyone have any idea on what effects CR may have on this process? One effect comes to my mind right away--by limiting energy intake, CR folks will have fewer cell divisions and thus fewer replications, and thus these individuals will live longer. (Everything else being equal.) Does anyone know of other possible effects? Would someone care to repost this to sci.life.extension? (I'm not on that newslist.) Thanks Mark Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 13:09:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben Best Subject: Telomeres and CRAN Mark Rothstein seems to have a very confused understanding of the role of telomeres in aging. Telomeres offer an explanation as to why dividing somatic cells undergo a limited number of divisions (50-60 divisions per fibroblast in human beings). The maximum number of divisions seen for a given species cell-type is called the *Hayflick Limit*. Telomeres are long non-functional strands of DNA at the end of chromosomes. Telomeres consist of a six-base repeating sequence of Thymine, Adenine and Guanine: TTAGGG. With each cell division, some of the telomere is lost. The length of the remaining telomere is a good indicator of how many divisions a dividing cell has left. Once the telomere is gone, functional genetic DNA is lost with each cell division -- and the cells are soon missing essential proteins. "Immortalized" cancer cells contain an enzyme called *telomerase* that replaces lost telomeres, thus preventing them from experiencing a Hayflick Limit. Although there is a correlation between maximum lifespan and the Hayflick Limit for a species, the Hayflick limit would usually predict a lifespan 2-3 times longer than what is actually observed. Other factors must cause aging and death before the Hayflick Limit has a chance -- things like free-radical oxidation, non-enzymatic glycosylation, hormone decline, etc. Neurons are non-dividing cells, so they do not experience a Hayflick Limit. But they do age, and contribute to aging in animals and humans. There is no evidence that Caloric Restriction with Adquate Nutrution (CRAN) has any effect on telomeres. Mark's statement that CRAN would result in "fewer cell divisions and thus fewer replications, and thus these individuals will live longer" is an unproven hypothesis. CRAN increases protein synthesis in some tissues and decreases it in others. Dr. Walford seems to think that increased metabolic efficiency on a cellular level is the most important mechanism of action for CRAN, although there are others: such as reduced non-enzymatic glycosylation secondary to a drop in blood glucose. -- Ben Best (benbest@io.org) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:49:41 +1000 From: sj_skabo@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Stuart Skabo !!) Subject: Re: Telomeres and CRAN Hoi All, Stuart Skabo here for my first post, I originally followed this list to gather info for an essay i had to do for my thesis, but have continued out of an interest in using CRAN and mostly an interest in the science behind it. As a molecular biologist i am very interested in possible genetic mechanisms, and the actual genes that come into play during a CR regime. Anyway this post is in reply to comments about telomeres by Ben Best and Mark Rothstein; We have recently had a seminar given by a world leader in the field of Telomeres and Telomerase and comments about them on the list have been accurate to an extent, > Telomeres are long non-functional strands of DNA at the end of >chromosomes. Telomeres consist of a six-base repeating sequence of >Thymine, Adenine and Guanine: TTAGGG. With each cell division, some >of the telomere is lost. [snip] >Although there is a correlation between maximum lifespan and the >Hayflick Limit for a species, the Hayflick limit would usually predict >a lifespan 2-3 times longer than what is actually observed. agreed. However the current evidence suggests that although telomeres do shorten over the life time of an organism they are still long enough, by far, at the end of that organisms life that there is no real correlation. I have certainly not heard that _any_ functional genes are lost in this way even in very proliferative tissues. It is interesting to note for example that mice, having a relatively short lifespan, have very long telomeres, much longer than humans, throughout their lives. Many species including yeast have even longer ones based on repeats of up to eighteen nucleotides. A better way to look at senescence is through oxidative damage. I wrote an essay 9the above mentioned one for my thesis) on Oxidative damage and aging and would be willing to send it to interested parties. A recent paper entitled "Oxidative DNA damage and senesence of human diploid fibroblast cells" Proc. Natl. Acad Sci. USA, Vol 92, pp4337-4341 (May 1995) provides strong evidence for oxidations effect on the number of divisions (the Hayflick limit) In summary... Cells grown at 3% (physiological oxygen) divide up to 50% more times and reach higher cell densities than cells grown at atmospheric (20%) oxygen. Thank you for your time, i hope you find this interesting, Stuart -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= THESIS- the final Barrier...... MISSION- to boldly split infinitives that no person has split before...... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| Stuart Skabo, Email: sj_skabo@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au | Molecular Biology Unit Phone:work (002) 20 2583 or home (002) 23 5543 | University of Tasmania Snail: 3/14 Ashfield St.,Sandy Bay,Australia 7005 | Australia From: Jason Taylor Subject: Telomeres and CRAN (fwd) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 21:46:41 -0400 (EDT) > Telomeres are long non-functional strands of DNA at the end of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > chromosomes. Telomeres consist of a six-base repeating sequence of Great post Ben, but surely you meant "non-expressed" here, as they may serve several functions, least of which may be to permit the rest of the DNA to be correctly reproduced. > Thymine, Adenine and Guanine: TTAGGG. With each cell division, some You may be correct, but I vagely recall that the exact makeup of telomeres varies from species to species. > of the telomere is lost. The length of the remaining telomere is a > good indicator of how many divisions a dividing cell has left. Once > the telomere is gone, functional genetic DNA is lost with each cell > division -- and the cells are soon missing essential proteins. Note that these statements are logically incompatable with the ones following it where it is stated that the "Hayflick lifespan" is much longer than the actual one. (Stuart Skabo already showed this going from his own knowledge, but I couldn't resist an attempt to do some theoretical biochemistry.) .. > experience a Hayflick Limit. But they do age, and contribute to aging > in animals and humans. Yes, they do age, and in fact can be highly apoptotic, especially without the appropriate nerve growth factors, which, as you state, apparently would indicate that telomeres are unrelated to apoptosis. Nevertheless, I have a pet theory that relates the two together nicely. (Details some other post perhaps.) > > There is no evidence that Caloric Restriction with Adquate Nutrution > (CRAN) has any effect on telomeres. Mark's statement that CRAN would > result in "fewer cell divisions and thus fewer replications, and thus ^^^^ > these individuals will live longer" is an unproven hypothesis. CRAN ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > increases protein synthesis in some tissues and decreases it in others. > Dr. Walford seems to think that increased metabolic efficiency on a > cellular level is the most important mechanism of action for CRAN, > although there are others: such as reduced non-enzymatic glycosylation > secondary to a drop in blood glucose. > Well they do live longer with CR, but I agree that the number of cellular divisions that occurs is at best only a small part of why. I personally think (another unpublished theory of mine) that the mitocondrial OH- production rate is nonlinear to the ATP production rate. So high ATP generation rates (and high energy needs) would imply extra radical production (even more than in a linear model). Thus, if my theory is correct and we neglect other sources of radicals, even with radical scavenging ability that is proportional to caloric intake (which it is probably not), CR would still result in lower cellular OH- levels. Regards, Jason ______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Taylor, Greenbelt, MD USA|"Doctor, don't cut so deep! That's the third http://www.wam.umd.edu/~theoblit| operating table you've ruined this week!" From: Ben Best Subject: Replies concerning telomeres and CRAN mechanisms I am surprised that this list has such sophisticate lurkers, especially considering the low level of traffic here. "Old" tissues contain an increasing number of non-functional cells. Among the functional cells, the number of mitochondria per cell tends to decline with age. This would tend to indicate a significant role for oxidative damage, but I had the impression that some non-functional cells had become non-functional due to telomere loss. (Unfortunately, I can't find a reference for this and it may be a figment of my imagination.) While the Hayflick Limit would not be a dominant factor in tissue aging, all of the chromosomes in any cell do not have telomeres of the same length and all of the proliferative cells in a given tissue would not be expected to have the same average telomere length. Thus, it was my understanding that the effects of telomere loss were stochastic. Stuart Skabo's statement "I have certainly not heard that _any_ functional genes are lost in this way even in very proliferative tissues" sounds absolute rather than probablistic. I would expect at least *a few* cells to run-out of telomeres even if this is not the major cause of non-functional cells in a tissue. The fact that telomere loss is not the primary cause of aging does not mean that the primary cause is to be found in non-dividing cells such as neurons and heart muscle cells. Dr. Walford seems to think that the mechanisms by which CRAN works are found in the dividing cells. I quote from the beginning of the last paragraph of Chapter 5 of THE RETARDATION OF AGING AND DISEASE BY DIETARY RESTRICTION (1988, co-authored with Richard Weindruch, Ph.D): "Long-term dietary restriction of energy evokes an evolutionarily selected adaptive response whose main site of impact upon aging is at the level of proliferative systems. This adaptation involves a selective upregulation in repair and protective processes, an increased metabolic efficiency, a decreased production of damaging agents, and is accompanied by signals to the neuroendocrine network, particularly the hypothalamus." Both Stuart Skabo and Jason Taylor suggest that CRAN works through decreased oxidative damage, but Dr. Walford evidently believes that this is only a part of the picture. My interpretation of his statement is that CRAN turns some "genetic switches" that result in several alterations in the function of dividing cells. One of these alterations is the increased levels of the antioxidant catalase which is known to exist at higher levels in the cells of CRAN rodents. More research needs to be done to demonstrate the alterations of ATP-production systems in CRAN animals. Chapter 5 of Walford&Weindruch's book also contains the statement: "We predict that future studies will establish that the energetic efficiency of mitochondrial ATP production is subject to profound genetic variation and physiologic regulation, and that DR [Dietary Restriction] increases this efficiency. If coupling is loose, more energy is lost as heat and (perhaps) as free radicals, with less trapped in the high energy bond of ATP." So another "genetic switch" affected by CRAN may govern the efficiency of ATP production in the mitochondria. -- Ben Best (benbest@io.org) ______________________________________________________________________________ Jason Taylor, Greenbelt, MD USA|"Doctor, don't cut so deep! That's the third http://www.wam.umd.edu/~theoblit| operating table you've ruined this week!" From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Oct 26 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!usenet From: farmerj Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: An unscientific discussion on Telomeres and ageing Date: 27 Oct 1995 20:17:01 GMT Organization: Brigham Young University Lines: 25 Message-ID: <46rent$ltq@hamblin.math.byu.edu> References: <46piet$59k@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: farmerj.byu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 32bit) One of the items in this posting suggests that cell death which is associated with loss of telomeres may not be caused by loss of functional genes. Although that is probably not always true, it may be that the usual cause of cell death is only indirectly linked to loss of genetic information. I suspect that the usual immediate consequence of telomere loss would be the production of chromosomal aberrations. The loss of a single telomere would lead to a breakage-fusion-bridge cycle. The loss of two telomeres simultaneously could lead to formation of a ring chromosome or a dicentric chromosome. All of these aberrations would be likely to cause genetic death of the cell, either due to aneuploidy, deficiency, duplication, or physical prevention of mitosis by interlinked rings or dicentrics. I do not know the literature in this field. Can someone enlighten me as to whether aberrations have been shown to increase as the average telomere length shortens? James Farmer Dept. of Zoology Brigham Young University Provo, Utah 84602, USA From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 30 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Brian B. Jiang <73344.437@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: bionet.immunology,bionet.info-theory,bionet.metabolic-reg,bionet.microbiology,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Anti-Immigration Law Status/Seminar Date: 31 Oct 1995 08:31:19 GMT Organization: The Law Office of Brian B. Jiang Lines: 105 Message-ID: <474msn$9r9$4@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> Xref: biosci bionet.immunology:6042 bionet.info-theory:3704 bionet.metabolic-reg:589 bionet.microbiology:3771 bionet.molbio.ageing:2075 RE: New Development On the Anti-Immigration Bill(HR 2202) and Upcoming Seminar Hi folks: As of today, the House Judiciary Committee has completed its markup on the Lamar Bill after 9 days of debate over several weeks. Despite all the bad news, such as reduction of legal immigration and elimination of some family categories, there are a few signs of relief. Both outstanding researchers/professors and national interest waivers were restored to the Bill. So professionals( scientists, post-docs, engineers etc.) can still apply for permanent residence without labor certification and sponsorship of their employers. On the other hand, for those who have to apply through labor cert, they are, as usual, still at the mercy of the Labor Dept. Any positive change is yet to be seen. Although waiver of labor certification and employer sponsorship is still obtainable for those who qualify, difficulties have been on the rise and more are expected. Nearly all four Service Centers have implemented some newly proposed requirements that make it very difficult to obtain an approval. According to administrative rules no law should be carried out until it is final. Despite the rules, INS is already treating the proposals like enforceable law. In the real world, things are not always the way they are supposed to be. This is even more so in immigration practice with today's anti-immigration fervor. I am an immigration attorney specializing in employment based immigration(1st and 2nd preference). I will hold seminars on how to apply for a green card without labor certification and sponsorship of the employer. The intended audiences of my seminar are professionals with advanced degrees or a bachelor degree plus five years of work experience. I will also cover the impact of HR 2202 on future immigration. The locations of the seminar will include: 1. University of Florida at Gainesville University Center Hotel (President's Ballroom) 1535 SW Archer Road Gainesville, FL Tel: (904)371-3333 Time: 11/12/95 Sunday 2:00-4:00pm 2. Columbia University at New York City Columbia University 517 Hamilton Hall (close to W. 116th St. & Broadway) Time: 11/13/95 Monday 7:30-9:30pm 3. Princeton University Location to be decided Time 11/14/95 Tuesday 4. Baltimore near University of Maryland Holiday Inn Baltimore Inner Harbor (Chesateake Ballroom #1) 301 W. Lombard Street Baltimore, MD Tel: (410)685-3500 Time: 11/15/95 Wed. 7:30-9:30pm 5. Pittsburgh near Univ. of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh Green Tree Marriott (Near University of Pittsburgh) 101 Marriott Drive Pittsburgh, PA Tel: (412)922-8400 Time: 11/16/95 Thursday 7:30-9:30pm 6. Boston at Cambridge Hyatt Regency Cambridge 575 Memorial Drive Cambridge, MA Tel: (617)492-1234 Time 11/17/95 Friday 7:30-9:30pm 7. University of Connecticut Location to be decided Time 11/18/95 Saturday 2:30-4:30pm 8. Palo Alto near Stanford University Holiday Inn Palo Alto (Near Stanford University) 625 El Camino Real Palo Alto, CA Tel: (415)328-2800 Time 11/19/95 Sunday 7:30-9:30pm I will conduct these seminars during these time. All questions, comment, and suggestions are welcome. You can also reach me at tel. (619)278-5480 or (619)278-5492. Brian B. Jiang Esq. Email: 73344.437@compuserve.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Oct 30 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!simtel!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!news.rccn.net!master.di.fc.ul.pt!skull.cc.fc.ul.pt!qjpcbraz From: Jorge Braz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: DNA Base Lesions Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:31:46 +0100 Organization: Faculdade de Ciencias da Universidade de Lisboa Lines: 6 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: skull.cc.fc.ul.pt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There are many lesions in DNA due to hidroxil radicals, can anybody tell me what lesions are not repaired and the ones that provocated any alterations in cell behaviour? Thank you Jorge Braz From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Oct 31 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!agate!tol1mac27.soe.berkeley.edu!user From: nalini_shaw@maillink.berkeley.edu (nalini shaw) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: 1 Nov 1995 22:59:02 GMT Organization: UC Berkeley - School of Education Lines: 9 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: tol1mac27.soe.berkeley.edu Are there any really good readable articles on Life Extension and the effects of using antioxidants? Have long term studies been done in this area? I'm not in biology and don't know anything about it. Just curious. Thanks. -- nalini nalini_shaw@maillink.berkeley.edu