From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 02 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!usenet From: "Dr. David Rosen" Newsgroups: bionet.immunology,bionet.info-theory,bionet.metabolic-reg,bionet.microbiology,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Anti-Immigration Law Status/Seminar Date: 3 Nov 1995 14:53:27 GMT Organization: Duke University, Durham, NC, USA Lines: 2 Message-ID: <47dad7$2is@news.duke.edu> References: <474msn$9r9$4@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: inxs.chem.duke.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.2 sun4c) To: 73344.437@CompuServe.COM X-URL: news:474msn$9r9$4@mhafm.production.compuserve.com Xref: biosci bionet.immunology:6097 bionet.info-theory:3713 bionet.metabolic-reg:593 bionet.microbiology:3837 bionet.molbio.ageing:2080 What does this have to do with microbiology, again? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hone!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 3 Nov 1995 03:08:07 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 33 Message-ID: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip31.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2083 bionet.general:18283 sci.life-extension:8069 FROM: Bill Tekatch Many think that immortality is a hopeless quest. If they were to realize that there are immortal creatures living among us now, would that change their minds? I have found in the past that when I gave a few clues about the identity of the immortal creatures that people with a knowledge of biology could name them within seconds. So, here it goes. They will never die from ageing. They can be killed by accident or disease. They are multi-cellular, and not microscopic. Most of them actually are taller then the human female. Although their life-span is indefinite, there is no confirmation of any of them being over five thousand years old. Has everybody got it? Easy, isn't it? Now, the big question is why don't we apply our knowledge about them to achieve human immortality? By the way, they do it by keeping a portion of their cells in the fetal state all during their lives. Sincerely, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Nov 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!paperboy.wellfleet.com!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:02:02 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2085 bionet.general:18302 sci.life-extension:8113 You've got me stumped here. Is it some kind of tree, the giant redwoods pehaps? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Nov 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!noc.near.net!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:04:04 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: Yes, this is a very interesting topic. Too bad this group seems to be rather dead judging by the number of posts. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Nov 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!noc.near.net!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: DNA & Aging Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 03:15:06 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 27 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva O.K. I'm not a biologist, but I am really interested in the subject of this newsgroup. I actually have been meaning to go to the main library here on campus on read all the books on the molecular mechanisms of aging. Unfortunately, with all the other work keeping me busy, looks like that won't happen for a while. I've recently come across a really interesting article on food mutagens & DNA. It now seems quite clear that a lot of cancer is not only genetic, but also the result of some pesky molecules screwing up our code. I was wondering if aging could be an aggregate result of years of damage to DNA & errors too numerous to be corrected in a timely fashion. Aging definitely has to be either genetic or environmental like cancer. If the latter is the case, then couldn't it be simply fixed by: 1) freezing a bunch of our youthful undamaged DNA 2) and then breeding in large quantity a hybrid virus containing its own injection mechanism & our DNA 3) and then simply infecting ourselves with this potion of youth If the former is the case, then we could simply cure this terminal disease by finding the portion of our code responsible for it and eliminate it. Can any knowledgable biologist explain to me the merits, if any, of this line of reasoning? Please e-mail directly too. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: DNA & Aging Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:49:00 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 26 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-559023410-851401618-815716140=:23236" X-Sender: pboduch@minerva This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---559023410-851401618-815716140=:23236 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply to Steve Chambers. See attachmnet. ---559023410-851401618-815716140=:23236 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Re: DNA & Aging RnJvbSBwYm9kdWNoQG1pbmVydmEuY2lzLnlhbGUuZWR1TW9uIE5vdiAgNiAy Mjo0Njo1OCAxOTk1DQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDYgTm92IDE5OTUgMjI6NDY6NDEg LTA1MDAgKEVTVCkNCkZyb206ICJQYXVsIEJvZHVjaCAoRVMgMTk5NykiIDxw Ym9kdWNoQG1pbmVydmEuY2lzLnlhbGUuZWR1Pg0KVG86IFN0ZXZlIENoYW1i ZXJzIDxzdGV2ZUBjaGFtYmVycy5hay5wbGFuZXQuY28ubno+DQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBQLlMuDQoNCgkgTGV0J3MganVzdCBwb3N0IHRvIHRoZSBuZXdzZ3JvdXAg YmlvbmV0Lm1vbGJpby5hZ2VpbmcgZnJvbSBub3cgb24uDQpJIGRvbid0IHRo aW5rIHRoZXJlJ3MgYSB3YXkgdG8gc2VuZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgdG8gc29tZW9u ZSdzIGUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYQ0KbmV3c2dyb3VwIHNpbXVsdGFuZW91bHksIGF0 IGxlYXN0IGZyb20gbXkgZS1tYWlsIGFjY291bnQuIEl0J3MgZmFyIGVhc2ll cg0KdGhpcyB3YXkuIA0K ---559023410-851401618-815716140=:23236-- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: DNA & Aging Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:40:44 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 174 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-559023410-851401618-815711879=:5661" X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: Content-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---559023410-851401618-815711879=:5661 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: O.K. This is a response to the first response to my post I got from Michael Gregory Abel. I thought I should post it here too for interested parties. This is the only way I could do it, posting it as an attachment. I still have to figure out how to post to newsgroups while replying to people. ---559023410-851401618-815711879=:5661 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Re: DNA & Aging RnJvbSBwYm9kdWNoQG1pbmVydmEuY2lzLnlhbGUuZWR1TW9uIE5vdiAgNiAy MTozNjoxNSAxOTk1DQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDYgTm92IDE5OTUgMjE6MDU6MDEg LTA1MDAgKEVTVCkNCkZyb206ICJQYXVsIEJvZHVjaCAoRVMgMTk5NykiIDxw Ym9kdWNoQG1pbmVydmEuY2lzLnlhbGUuZWR1Pg0KVG86ICJNaWNoYWVsIEdy ZWdvcnkgQWJlbCwgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBvZiBUZW5uZXNzZWUiDQogICAgIDxh YmVsQFVUS1ZYLlVUQ0MuVVRLLkVEVT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBETkEgJiBB Z2luZw0KDQpPbiBNb24sIDYgTm92IDE5OTUsIE1pY2hhZWwgR3JlZ29yeSBB YmVsLCBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIFRlbm5lc3NlZSB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBCeSB0 aGUgd2F5LCBzb21lIHNjaWVudGlzdHMgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBodW1h biBsaWZlLXNwYW4gd2lsbCBiZSBpbmNyZWFzZWQgDQo+IGJ5IGFzIG11Y2gg YXMgMTAwJSBpbiB0aGUgbmVhciBmdXR1cmUgYnV0IGluIHRoZSBsaWdodCBv ZiB0aGUgY3VycmVudCANCj4gcG9wdWxhdGlvbiBwcm9ibGVtIGFuZCBsaW1p 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biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!news-out.internetmci.com!internetMCI!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!simtel!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de!usenet From: juschus@novsrv1.pio1.uni-heidelberg.de (Clemens Suter-Crazzolara) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 7 Nov 1995 13:52:51 GMT Organization: Dept. Anatomy & Cell Biology, Univ. Heidelberg, Germany Lines: 17 Message-ID: <47nobj$jac@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc6.ana.uni-heidelberg.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2096 bionet.general:18328 sci.life-extension:8129 In article <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mberezetsk@aol.comX says... > >It's prickleconed pine. Now -- do I get that nice little prize you have >stacked away for the winner? Considering I'm not even remotely a >biologist? > >Lucinda There was also an interesting paper in Nature a few years ago, in which it was shown that a two fungi found in England were something like 3000-5000 yrs old, and had a weight of several 1000 kilograms (correct me if I am wrong.) I would guess that this organism surely would be immortal. clemens From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: sealeman@aol.com (Sealeman) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: MELATONIN is available Date: 7 Nov 1995 04:16:04 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 9 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <47n84k$fln@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: sealeman@aol.com (Sealeman) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com If you are interested in a supplier for Melatonin by direct mail with full money back guarantee, send me your e-mail address and I will forward a 1-800# to call for additional info and order. 60 count bottle of 3 mg capsules are available. Capsules are not the hard tablet variety... to dissolve faster and to assure maximum absorption. Product is free of allergens such as; wheat, corn, soy, milk and egg products; no added sugars, starch, yeast, salt (sodium), preservatives or tablet binders or coatings. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: 7 Nov 1995 01:55:16 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 9 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Paul Boduch (ES 1997) wrote: > Yes, this is a very interesting topic. Too bad this group seems > to be rather dead judging by the number of posts. > Dryonet, excuse me, Cryonet is remotely similar in objectivity.> From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: 7 Nov 1995 01:53:01 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 9 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Paul Boduch (ES 1997) wrote: > Yes, this is a very interesting topic. Too bad this group seems > to be rather dead judging by the number of posts. > > Try the longevit list. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!gatech!news.uoregon.edu!waikato!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: DNA & Aging Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 11:41:44 +1200 References: Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 62 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2088 sci.life-extension:8122 In "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" writes: > I've recently come across a really interesting article on food >mutagens & DNA. It now seems quite clear that a lot of cancer is not only >genetic, but also the result of some pesky molecules screwing up our code. >I was wondering if aging could be an aggregate result of years of damage >to DNA & errors too numerous to be corrected in a timely fashion. >Aging definitely has to be either genetic or environmental like cancer. Why not both? >If the latter is the case, then couldn't it be simply fixed by: > 1) freezing a bunch of our youthful undamaged DNA > 2) and then breeding in large quantity > a hybrid virus containing its own injection > mechanism & our DNA > 3) and then simply infecting ourselves with this potion > of youth Probably the first to explore this line of reasoning were Failla and Szilard (independently it seems). And Orgel's Error Catastrophe theory is an interesting development on the theme. Although there's no doubt that somatic mutations are a factor in aging organisms, there's no way that we could attribute all aging phenomena to such damage. Aside from the obvious (that people and organisms die from a host of conditions that don't seem to depend on genetic damage), there are a few observations worth mentioning: In wasps, for example, the haploid (only one set of genes) male lives just as long as the diploid (two sets - ie a spare set) female. Low level radiation (which damages DNA) can _increase_ the lifespan of some animals. Survivors of the Atomic blasts at Nagasaki and Hiroshima were exposed to enormous levels of DNA damaging radiation. Yet they were found to "age" at the same rate as other matched-sample Japanese. I won't even attempt to address 2) of your solution. It makes today's gene therapy problems look like a stroll in the park. But who knows, it may be possible in the not-too-distant future to create a viral vector that can "correct" some common mutations - perhaps those that seem to "power down" our mitochondria with age. >If the former is the case, then we could simply cure this terminal >disease by finding the portion of our code responsible for it and >eliminate it. The "portion" you speak of could turn out to be nearly all of our coding DNA (and some structural stuff besides). Evolutionary theory suggests that we should treat with suspicion _every_ biological process that makes us what we are. Eliminating gene-influenced processes that contribute to aging is not an option. Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz -----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!simtel!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 7 Nov 1995 07:28:07 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2095 bionet.general:18327 sci.life-extension:8127 It's prickleconed pine. Now -- do I get that nice little prize you have stacked away for the winner? Considering I'm not even remotely a biologist? Lucinda From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Aging: Inactive List? Date: 7 Nov 1995 01:52:27 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 18 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net This used to be a very active list (ageing@net.bio.net). I was w/o access to the internet this summer and when I got back home it had dried up. I just figured the contributors had discovered the secrets to longevity and decided to keep mum about it until they could protect their investments. There's hundreds of billions of dollars at stake here. Then, again, what if you and a small group of you friends found physical immortality? Would you go out and try to convert a world of skeptics? On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Paul Boduch (ES 1997) wrote: > Yes, this is a very interesting topic. Too bad this group seems > to be rather dead judging by the number of posts. > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.theriver.com!usenet From: LRE King Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 8 Nov 1995 00:31:22 GMT Organization: USA Lines: 4 Message-ID: <47otoq$v36@news.theriver.com> References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <47nobj$jac@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial0.p23.theriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:47nobj$jac@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2097 bionet.general:18342 sci.life-extension:8140 "Immortal" in the sense that it would last until, say, the end of the earth? Or the end of the universe? That seems highly unlikely. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!waikato!celebrian.otago.ac.nz!adi005.adi.co.nz!user From: tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz (Till Noever) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Aging: Inactive List? Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 16:30:37 +1200 Organization: University of Otago Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: adi005.adi.co.nz In article , dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) wrote: > I just figured the contributors had discovered the secrets to longevity > and decided to keep mum about it until they could protect their > investments. > > There's hundreds of billions of dollars at stake here. As I've pointed out before in 'sci.life-extension', more than just billions. We are talking about altering the fundamental parameters of *all* existing human societies. > > Then, again, what if you and a small group of you friends found physical > immortality? Would you go out and try to convert a world of skeptics? Good question. Since the only way to convert a world of skeptics would take some time (several decades, or more, I suppose) there'd really be no point in trying. Also, given just a modicum of paranoia, it wouldn't be hard to see how a person or persons with a healthy survival instinct would indeed refrain from letting it be known what they've discovered. Wouldn't you? ;-) Regards Till -- -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Till Noever (a.k.a. tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz or till@adi.co.nz) "...moments...lost in time - like tears in rain..." 'Roy' *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:58:30 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 6 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: On 7 Nov 1995, Don Ashley wrote: > Try the longevit list. What exactly is the name of the newsgroup? Can't find anything under longevit.list. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!chi-news.cic.net!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!mv!mv.mv.com!katel From: katel@mv.mv.com (Katharine Lindner) Subject: Re: DNA & Aging Message-ID: Organization: MV Communications, Inc. Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 04:46:46 GMT References: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: mv.mv.com Lines: 18 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2100 sci.life-extension:8142 steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) writes: > Low level radiation (which damages DNA) can _increase_ the lifespan of > some animals. > Survivors of the Atomic blasts at Nagasaki and Hiroshima were exposed > to enormous levels of DNA damaging radiation. Yet they were found to > "age" at the same rate as other matched-sample Japanese. >Steve Some people have speculated that radiation stimulates our defences against radiation, kind of like germs stimulate our defences against germs, I think Smith-Sonneborne dis some work with this( I probably mispelled the name) Kathy From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!mercury.near.net!noc.near.net!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Aging: Inactive List? Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 04:01:50 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Till Noever wrote: > > Then, again, what if you and a small group of you friends found physical > > immortality? Would you go out and try to convert a world of skeptics? > > Good question. Since the only way to convert a world of skeptics would > take some time (several decades, or more, I suppose) there'd really be no > point in trying. Also, given just a modicum of paranoia, it wouldn't be > hard to see how a person or persons with a healthy survival instinct would > indeed refrain from letting it be known what they've discovered. Wouldn't > you? ;-) Can those of us who still haven't figured out the secrets of immortality at least try to do so in *my lifetime*(for obvious reasons)? Then we can decide how elitist we want to be in sharing the information considering the population growth problem. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!mercury.near.net!noc.near.net!news3.near.net!yale!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: What gives..Steve & the rest?? Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 04:06:29 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 4 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva I thought my last post would be provocative enough to at least raise a few eyebrows. How come no one is continuing the thread about DNA & Aging? Or maybe it's customary to wait more than 3 day for replies to this group. Anyway, this group still looks really dead. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.cis.okstate.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.hawaii.edu!news From: an394259@anon.penet.fi (Sarah Chase) Subject: Makemoney! "Its no Joke" X-Nntp-Posting-Host: nts106.dialup.hawaii.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@news.hawaii.edu Organization: University of Hawaii X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99.82 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 04:01:57 GMT Lines: 356 |\ /| /\ | / |----- / | \ | \ / | / \ | / | | | | \/ | /____\ |/ |____ |___|_ | | | | |\ | | \ | | | | | \ | | | | | | | | \ |_____ \___|_/ FAST!! Dear Friend, My name is Dave Rhodes. In September 1988 my car was reposessed and the bill collectors were hounding me like you wouldn't believe. I was laid off and my unemployment checks had run out. The only escape I had from the pressure of failure was my Apple computer and my modem. I longed to turn my advocation into my vocation. This January 1989 my family and I went on a ten day cruise to the tropics. I bought a Lincoln Town Car for CASH in Feburary 1989. I am currently building a home on the West Coast of Florida, with a private pool, boat slip, and a beautiful view of the bay from my breakfast room table and patio. I will never have to work again. Today I am rich! I have earned over $400,000.00 (Four Hundred Thousand Dollars) to date and will become a millionaire within 4 or 5 months. Anyone can do the same. This money making program works perfectly every time, 100% of the time. I have NEVER failed to earn $50,000.00 or more whenever I wanted. Best of all you never have to leave home except to go to your mailbox or post office. In October 1988, I received a letter in the mail telling me how I could earn $50,000 dollars or more whenever I wanted. I was naturally very skeptical and threw the letter on the desk next to my computer. It's funny though, when you are desparate, backed into a corner, your mind does crazy things. I spent a frustating day looking through the want ads for a job with a future. The pickings were sparse at best. That night I tried to unwind by booting up my Apple computer and calling several bulletin boards. I read several of the message posts and than glanced at the letter next to the computer. All at once it came to me, I now had the key to my dreams. I realized that with the power of the computer I could expand and enhance this money making formula into the most unbelievable cash flow generator that has ever been created. I substituted the computer bulletion boards in place of the post office and electronically did by computer what others were doing 100% by mail. Now only a few letters are mailed manually. Most of the hard work is speedily downloaded to other bulletin boards throughout the world. If you believe that someday you deserve that lucky break that you have waited for all your life, simply follow the easy instructions below. Your dreams will come true. Sincerely yours, Dave Rhodes +---------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | INSTRUCTIONS | | | | Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days you | | will have received well over $50,000.00 cash, all yours. | | This program has remained successful because of the honesty | | and integrety of the participants. Please continue its | | success by carefully adhering to the instructions. | | | | Welcome to the world of Mail Order! This little business is | | a little different than most mail order houses. Your product | | is not solid and tangible, but rather a service. You are in | | the business of developing Mailing lists. Many large | | corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. | | | | (The money made from the mailing lists are secondary to the | | income which is made from people like yourself requesting | | that they be included in that list.) | | | | 1) Immediately mail $1.00 to the first 5 (five) names listed | | below starting at number 1 through number 5. Send cash only | | please (total investment $5.00). Enclose a note with each | | letter stating: "Please add my name to your mailing list." | | (This is a legitimate service that you are requesting and | | you are paying $1.00 for this service). | | | | 2) Remove the name that appears number 1 on the list. Move the | | other 9 names up one position. (Number 2 will become number 1 | | and number 3 will become number 2, etc.) Place your name, | | address and zip code in the number 10 position. | | | | 3) Post the new letter with your name in the number 10 position | | into 15 (fifteen) separate bulletin boards in the message | | base or to the file section, call the file, FASTCASH.TXT. | | | | 4) Within 60 days you will receive over $50,000.00 in | | CASH. Keep a copy of this file for yourself so that you can | | use it again and again whenever you need money. As soon as | | you mail out these letters you are automatically in the mail | | order business and people are sending you $1.00 to be placed | | on your mailing list. This list can than be rented to a list | | broker that can be found in the Yellow Pages for additional | | income on a regular basis. The list will become more | | valuable as it grows in size. This is a service. This is | | perfectly legal. If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18, | | Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the postal lottery laws. | | | | NOTE: Make sure you retain EVERY Name and Address sent | | to you, either on computer or hard copy, but do not | | discard the names and notes they send you. This is | | PROOF that you are truely providing a service and | | should the IRS or some other Government Agency | | question you, you can provide them with this proof! | | | | Remember as each post is downloaded and the instructions | | carefully followed, five members will be reimbursed for | | their participation as a List Developer with one dollar | | each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that | | when your name reaches the number five position you will be | | receiving thousands of dollars in cash. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Chris Stark 7820 Foxborough Way Owings, MD 20736 2. Robert Shields 30106 Merchant Ct. Great Falls, VA 22066 3. Simon Pettibone 2705 East Side Dr. Alexandria, VA 22306 4. Mike Baker 8513 Crown Place Alexandria, VA 22308 5. Sean A. Smiley 2950 East Texas St. Box 520 Bossier City, LA 71111 6. B. Biggie 12039 Greywing Square, Apt. C1 Reston, VA 22091 7. Ed's Lists PO Box 73041 Davis, CA. 95617 8. Jabb N. Schniper 2448 E.Nutwood Ave., APT. F-36 Fullerton, CA 92631 9. Colin Hodges' Lists The Johns Hopkins University Box 2093 AMR Charles & 34th Street Baltimore, MD 21218 10. Sarah Chase PO Box 27651 Honolulu, HI 96827 The following letters were written by participating members in this program. +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ |To Whom It May Concern: | | | | About six months ago I received the enclosed post in | |letter form. I ignored it. I received about five more of | |the same letter withn the next two weeks. I ignored them | |also. Of course, I was tempted to follow through and | |dreamed of making thousands, but I was convinced it was just | |another gimmick and could not possibly work. I was wrong! | |About three weeks later I saw this same letter posted on a | |local bulletion board in Montreal. I liked the idea of | |giving it a try with my computer. I didn't expect much | |because I figured, if other people were as skeptical as I, | |they wouldn't be too quick to part with Five dollars. But, | |I buy lottery tickets weekly in my province and have nothing | |to show for it but ticket stubs. This week I decided to | |look at this as my weekly lottery purchase. I addressed the | |envelopes and mailed out one dollar in each as directed. | |Two weeks went by and I didn't recieve anything in the mail. | |The fourth week rolled around and I couldn't believe what | |happened! I can't say I received $50,000, but it was | |definitely well over $35,000! For the first time in ten | |years, I got out of debt. It was great. Of course, it | |didn't take me long to go through my earnings so I am using | |this excellent money opportunity once again. Follow the | |instructions and get ready to enjoy. | | | | Please send a copy of this letter along with the | |enclosed letter so together we can convince people who are | |skeptical that it really works! | | | | Good Luck, | | | | Charles Kust | | St Agathe Que. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Another letter: I tried a similar program in which the cost was $5.00 per response. In that one the return was about 3%. Since I did not have a modem I sent out letters regular mail. I created mailing labels with Appleworks and printed the labels on pressure sensitive tape. The first mailing that I used the $1.00 dollar per reponse approach I started to get return mail in just over one week! I sent out 200 letters instead of 100 that is required if you use the mail instead of the bulletion boards. Additionally, I included as many friends, relatives, classmates, that I could think of in order to encourage their participation if they happened to recognize my name, so my percnetage of gain was higher. I am trying again with 500 letters to see if I surpass the $141,000 of the last time. You just won't beleive it until you try. Best Wishes, Mark Garner Dallas Texas Additional Notes: This system works equally well if mailed out manually. Mind you it takes more effort to hand address the envelopes and the cost goes up proportionately to cover the postage and envelopes. You must also photo copy the instructions, cross out the name in number one position, write in your name in the number ten slot and change the rest of the numbers accordinly. (It might be neater to use white out or paste over the names.) In order to achieve the same results you must send out the $1.00 dollar to the first five names and then send out another 100 letters with copies of the program enclosed. It has been suggested not to put a return address on the outside of the envelope in order to encourage the recipient to open it. The return will approximate that then received from the posts listed on the bulletin boards. Another letter: I was working the grave yard night shift at the hospital administration office and was bored to tears. I saw this letter laying on my desk from the previous shift. I had nothing better to do so I figured, Why not? I ran off over 100 copies on the office copier. I found some blank envelopes in a desk drawer and began to hand write the addresses from the telephone book. I borrowed the postage meter and stamped the envelopes. Carefully I stuffed the envelopes not forgetting to put in the five one dollar bills to the first five names. I put the entire lot in the mail bag. Total time from start to finish was three and one half hours which included several short stops to answer the telephone and fill out an admission slip. Total cost to me $5.00 dollars.. Fourty two days later I gave notice to my employer and I will never have to work the night shift again. Peggy Lou G. Scottsdale Arizona PS. I made a nice size donation to the hospital building fund. I figured it was the least I could do for the use of the postage and office supplies. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Demise Of The Ageing List Date: 8 Nov 1995 06:10:01 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net It's possible that this group got hit with that wave of spams that chased people off other list groups a month or two ago. Then, again, the scientists may have chosen to sway from this group because they were disgusted with lay comments. At one time scientists hoped this list would be restricted to professional sharing, which they did for awhile. Then lay readers contributed some nonscientific and non-professional commentary. During the first part of this year, some very enlightening posts were submitted here and were educational for many of us. It helped us voters keep up with the latest in aging and genetics research. Some voter groups are interested in generating funding thru legislation for increased research. Others connected with foundations, pension funds, and corporate investing groups would like to encourage R&D. The list had been discussing the 'immortality' enzyme, telomerase. Patrick disclosed a discovery about it one day, then quickly retracted his comments and has not been heard of since.??? Now we've got a wave of mortalists who are convinced that significant longevity increase is science fiction. 'Look at all the poeple who have already died. How can it be different for us?' On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Paul Boduch (ES 1997) wrote: > I thought my last post would be provocative enough to at least > raise a few eyebrows. How come no one is continuing the thread about DNA > & Aging? Or maybe it's customary to wait more than 3 day for replies to this > group. Anyway, this group still looks really dead. > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sesqui.net!uuneo.neosoft.com!sam-slip-j6.NeoSoft.COM!geoprobe From: geoprobe@neosoft.com (Paul H. Kronfield) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:36:57 UNDEFINED Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 968 5800 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sam-slip-j6.neosoft.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2103 bionet.general:18357 sci.life-extension:8148 In article <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) writes: >From: mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) >Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! >Date: 7 Nov 1995 07:28:07 -0500 >It's prickleconed pine. Now -- do I get that nice little prize you have >stacked away for the winner? Considering I'm not even remotely a >biologist? >Lucinda I think you mean "bristlecone pine".... But I think the "immortal" the writer was speaking of is the apical maristem, the ever-living point in all plants. Paul Kronfield Houston, Texas, USA geoprobe@neosoft.com homepage: http://www.neosoft.com/users/g/geoprobe/geoprobe.html From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 07 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!ames!waikato!celebrian.otago.ac.nz!usenet From: Mac@Argo.edu (Jase) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 8 Nov 1995 20:11:11 GMT Organization: University of Otago Lines: 11 Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[4796] Message-ID: <47r2sv$86a@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac240042.otago.ac.nz X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0.6@mac240042.otago.ac.nz Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name. Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2106 bionet.general:18369 sci.life-extension:8150 In article <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) writes: > It's prickleconed pine. Now -- do I get that nice little prize you have > stacked away for the winner? Considering I'm not even remotely a > biologist? > Lucinda Certainly not, seeing as you are wrong. Jase From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 9 Nov 1995 03:38:52 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 16 Message-ID: <47rt4c$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <47nobj$jac@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> <47otoq$v36@news.theriver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip50.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2109 bionet.general:18385 sci.life-extension:8180 FROM: Bill Tekatch LRE King wrote: > > "Immortal" in the sense that it would last until, say, the end of the > earth? Or the end of the universe? That seems highly unlikely. > > Immortal in that they do not die of old age or due to something caused by ageing. Of course that is not true immortality, but it's the best we can hope for in this world. Sincerely, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 9 Nov 1995 03:29:26 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <47rsim$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> References: <47njcn$iae@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip50.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2108 bionet.general:18384 sci.life-extension:8176 FROM: Bill Tekatch mberezetsk@aol.com (MBerezetsk) wrote: > > It's prickleconed pine. Now -- do I get that nice little prize you have > stacked away for the winner? Considering I'm not even remotely a > biologist? > > Lucinda Close, its the bristlcone pine, oh well close enough. You win my admiration. Sincerely, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet From: Ann Tekatch Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 9 Nov 1995 03:24:18 GMT Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer) Lines: 26 Message-ID: <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> References: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: abb-annex1-slip50.cis.mcmaster.ca Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2107 bionet.general:18383 sci.life-extension:8175 FROM: Bill Tekatch "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: > > You've got me stumped here. Is it some kind of tree, the giant redwoods > pehaps? For being "stumped" you did well. It is the Brislecone Pine. The oldest one found was felled in 1964 in Nevada's Humboldt National Forest. The Sierra redwood has an estimated maximum age of 4,000 years and ages to 2,200 to 2,300 verified. My point is perhaps trying to optimize the performance of the human body for life span by fine tuning its operation can only yield at best perhaps a 30% increase in life span. The giant advances will come from radical steps such as the application of knowledge about other organisms that are already immortal. Sincerely, Bill Tekatch From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: MELATONIN? Date: 9 Nov 1995 17:26:10 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 11 Message-ID: <47tdji$h40@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: linda.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Is this group interested in an in depth discussion of the science (not the sensationalism) of melatonin? I have over 1200 scientific articles about melatonin in my home library and would enter in such a discussion if the interest is there. Jo -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!noc.netcom.net!evolving.com!usenet From: Gregory Bloom Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: immortalized cells Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 16:32:42 -0700 Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <30A28F9A.1CFB@evolving.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: snidely.evolving.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; AIX 2) Recent articles here regarding the significance of the telomere in senescence have stated that the telomere is plenty long enough at death in most organisms, and thus may not count much toward the aging process. Other articles have pointed to cumulative degradation by oxidation, glycolization, methylation, etc. as the principal source of ageing. My question is - what makes immortalized cell lines immortal? Do they suffer any of the cumulative damage from oxidation? If so, are their repair mechanisms simply revved up beyond normal "mortal" cells? If they have active telomerase, does the telomere simply increase without bounds, until the whole nucleus is swimming in a tangled web of telomere DNA? Are immortal cells truely immortal, or are they more like "George Washington's original axe" where the head has been replaced five times, and the handle six? -- Gregory Bloom mailto:Gregory.Bloom@evolving.com vox:303.740.5706 fax:303.740.5800 ESI, 6892 S. Yosemite Court, Englewood, CO 80111 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.erinet.com!netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: slk@ix.netcom.com (Steven Keys) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 9 Nov 1995 18:57:08 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 36 Message-ID: <47tiu4$j72@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> References: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pas13-27.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Nov 09 10:57:08 AM PST 1995 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2112 bionet.general:18392 sci.life-extension:8193 In <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Ann Tekatch writes: > >FROM: Bill Tekatch > >"Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: >> >> You've got me stumped here. Is it some kind of tree, the giant redwoods >> pehaps? > >For being "stumped" you did well. > >It is the Brislecone Pine. The oldest one found was >felled in 1964 in Nevada's Humboldt National Forest. > >The Sierra redwood has an estimated maximum age >of 4,000 years and ages to 2,200 to 2,300 verified. > >My point is perhaps trying to optimize the performance >of the human body for life span by fine tuning its >operation can only yield at best perhaps a 30% >increase in life span. The giant advances will >come from radical steps such as the application >of knowledge about other organisms that are >already immortal. > >Sincerely, >Bill Tekatch > Brislecone Pine don't have any living cells that are older than around 30 years, they just form successive layers on top of one another that are continually dying out. Steven Keys From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 08 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.digital.com!ames!waikato!celebrian.otago.ac.nz!adi005.adi.co.nz!user From: tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz (Till Noever) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:57:03 +1200 Organization: University of Otago Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: adi005.adi.co.nz In article , "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: > What exactly is the name of the newsgroup? Can't find anything under > longevit.list. "sci.life-extension" -- -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Till Noever (a.k.a. tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz or till@adi.co.nz) "...all those moments will be lost in time - like tears in rain..." *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sesqui.net!uuneo.neosoft.com!sam-slip-m1.NeoSoft.COM!geoprobe From: geoprobe@neosoft.com (Paul H. Kronfield) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:50:18 UNDEFINED Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 968 5800 Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <47tiu4$j72@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sam-slip-m1.neosoft.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2114 bionet.general:18395 sci.life-extension:8200 In article <47tiu4$j72@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> slk@ix.netcom.com (Steven Keys) writes: >From: slk@ix.netcom.com (Steven Keys) >Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! >Date: 9 Nov 1995 18:57:08 GMT >In <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Ann Tekatch > writes: >> >>FROM: Bill Tekatch >> >>"Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: >>> >>> You've got me stumped here. Is it some kind of tree, the giant >redwoods >>> pehaps? >> >>For being "stumped" you did well. >> >>It is the Brislecone Pine. The oldest one found was >>felled in 1964 in Nevada's Humboldt National Forest. >> >>The Sierra redwood has an estimated maximum age >>of 4,000 years and ages to 2,200 to 2,300 verified. >> >>My point is perhaps trying to optimize the performance >>of the human body for life span by fine tuning its >>operation can only yield at best perhaps a 30% >>increase in life span. The giant advances will >>come from radical steps such as the application >>of knowledge about other organisms that are >>already immortal. >> >>Sincerely, >>Bill Tekatch >> >Brislecone Pine don't have any living cells that are older than around >30 years, they just form successive layers on top of one another that >are continually dying out. >Steven Keys hrumphhh, as I said - the apical maristem! Paul Kronfield Houston, Texas, USA geoprobe@neosoft.com homepage: http://www.neosoft.com/~geoprobe/ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: immortalized cells Date: 10 Nov 1995 05:45:14 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <30A28F9A.1CFB@evolving.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Gregory Bloom wrote: > Recent articles here regarding the significance of the telomere > in senescence have stated that the telomere is plenty long enough > at death in most organisms, Sorry but I do not remember the source, but from the reseach report sometime in the last year immortal cell lines were given antibodies to stop telomerase production if my memory is correct. All immortal cell lines died after total number of cell divisions for that species. I have know this for some time and have waited for someone else to post it so I would know the source. Ron Blue > My question is - what makes immortalized cell lines immortal? If you remove chromosome number one from a human cell it becomes immortal. Source Science (year unknow). > Do they suffer any of the cumulative damage from oxidation? yes if extreme > If so, are their repair mechanisms simply revved up beyond > normal "mortal" cells? of course, immortal does not mean immortal. > If they have active telomerase, does > the telomere simply increase without bounds, until the whole > nucleus is swimming in a tangled web of telomere DNA? no > Are immortal cells truely immortal, or are they more like > "George Washington's original axe" where the head has been > replaced five times, and the handle six? correct > -- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Antioxidants and Life Extension Date: 10 Nov 1995 05:30:46 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 11 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Till Noever wrote: > In article , "Paul Boduch > (ES 1997)" wrote: > > > What exactly is the name of the newsgroup? Can't find anything under > > longevit.list. > > "sci.life-extension" HOW do you subscribe to the above if you have no newsgroup service? Ron Blue From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!news.ycc.yale.edu!minerva!pboduch From: "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: MELATONIN? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:35:15 -0500 Organization: Yale University Lines: 1 Message-ID: References: <47tdji$h40@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: pboduch@minerva In-Reply-To: <47tdji$h40@maureen.teleport.com> Sure, go for it. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: mll6@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: MELATONIN? Date: 10 Nov 1995 11:29:51 -0500 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <47vulv$1no5@ns4-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns4-1.cc.lehigh.edu In article <47tdji$h40@maureen.teleport.com>, jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) wri tes: > Is this group interested in an in depth discussion of the >science (not the sensationalism) of melatonin? I have over 1200 >scientific articles about melatonin in my home library and would >enter in such a discussion if the interest is there. > Jo > >-- >+-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ >| Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | >| (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | >+-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y----- + > Someone mentioned it before (I thought its only importance was skin pigment). Generally, what relation is it supposed to have with 'immortality'? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: mll6@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 10 Nov 1995 11:32:02 -0500 Lines: 57 Message-ID: <47vuq2$1bl5@ns4-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns4-1.cc.lehigh.edu In article , geoprobe@neosoft.com (Paul H. Kr onfield) writes: >In article <47tiu4$j72@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> slk@ix.netcom.com (Steven Keys) w rites: >>From: slk@ix.netcom.com (Steven Keys) >>Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! >>Date: 9 Nov 1995 18:57:08 GMT > >>In <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Ann Tekatch >> writes: >>> >>>FROM: Bill Tekatch >>> >>>"Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: >>>> >>>> You've got me stumped here. Is it some kind of tree, the giant >>redwoods >>>> pehaps? >>> >>>For being "stumped" you did well. >>> >>>It is the Brislecone Pine. The oldest one found was >>>felled in 1964 in Nevada's Humboldt National Forest. >>> >>>The Sierra redwood has an estimated maximum age >>>of 4,000 years and ages to 2,200 to 2,300 verified. >>> >>>My point is perhaps trying to optimize the performance >>>of the human body for life span by fine tuning its >>>operation can only yield at best perhaps a 30% >>>increase in life span. The giant advances will >>>come from radical steps such as the application >>>of knowledge about other organisms that are >>>already immortal. >>> >>>Sincerely, >>>Bill Tekatch >>> > >>Brislecone Pine don't have any living cells that are older than around >>30 years, they just form successive layers on top of one another that >>are continually dying out. > >>Steven Keys > >hrumphhh, as I said - the apical maristem! > > >Paul Kronfield >Houston, Texas, USA >geoprobe@neosoft.com >homepage: http://www.neosoft.com/~geoprobe/ > Is it found in all plants, or is that a species? (I remember hearing about some bushes in Israel that are supposed to be several thousand years old--same thing?). From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.uth.tmc.edu!drad55.mda.uth.tmc.edu!ylek From: ylek@utmdacc.uth.tmc.edu (David Voehringer) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: MELATONIN? Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:10:17 Organization: University of Texas Health Science Center Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <47vulv$1no5@ns4-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: drad55.mda.uth.tmc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Melatonin is a hormone secreted from the pineal gland and has antioxidant properties. Don't confuse it with melanin. They are not the same. David W. Voehringer Department of Experimental Radiotherapy Univ. of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center 1515 Holcombe Bvld. Houston, Tx. 77030 (713) 792-3797 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!noc.netcom.net!evolving.com!usenet From: Gregory Bloom Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: "Programmed" .vs. cumulative damage causes of cell-cycle failure Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:46:15 -0700 Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: snidely.evolving.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; AIX 2) It appears to me that owing to the continued success of immortalized cell lines in dividing and thriving in spite of the usual environmental assults from OH- radicals, glycolization, methylation, etc., the question of "programmed" .vs. cumulative cell damage as the primary cause of ageing swings heavily in favor of the "programmed" causes. This being so, does it make much sense to invest heavily in antioxidants, dietary restriction, exercize and other lifestyle modifications, when the best they can offer is to perhaps sustain the life of cells which have already "'flicked out" past their Hayflick limit? Might it make more sense for us to invest the money and time we dedicate toward these "optimization" measures into institutions that are actively persuing the "programmatic" problems of cell-cycle failure? Should I save up my vitamin money to buy biotech stocks? -- Gregory Bloom mailto:Gregory.Bloom@evolving.com vox:303.740.5706 fax:303.740.5800 ESI, 6892 S. Yosemite Court, Englewood, CO 80111 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!noc.netcom.net!evolving.com!usenet From: Gregory Bloom Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Longevity mailing list (was: Antioxidants and Life Extension) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:19:22 -0700 Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc. Lines: 153 Message-ID: <30A3899A.59E2@evolving.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: snidely.evolving.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; AIX 2) To: Ron Blue Ron Blue wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Till Noever wrote: > > In article , "Paul Boduch > > (ES 1997)" wrote: > > > > > What exactly is the name of the newsgroup? Can't find anything under > > > longevit.list. > > > > "sci.life-extension" > HOW do you subscribe to the above if you have no newsgroup service? > Ron Blue There is a longevity mailing list, which varies in quality from research announcements to MLM pill-peddling schemes, though it seems sadly inclined more toward the latter. I believe you can start a subscription by sending a message to: LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR that reads: SUBSCRIBE LONGEVITY myname@mysite.com (You must substitute your actual email address for myname@mysite.com.) Here's the info on using their mail server: From: LONGEVITY Request Subject: You are now subscribed to the LONGEVITY list Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:23:50 Your subscription to the LONGEVITY list (Longevity List) has been accepted. Please save this message for future reference, especially if you are not familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like a waste of disk space now, but in 6 months you will be glad you saved this information when you realize that you cannot remember what are the lists you are subscribed to, or what is the command to leave the list to avoid filling up your mailbox while you are on vacations. In fact, you should create a new mail folder for subscription confirmation messages like this one, and for the "welcome messages" from the list owners that you will occasionally receive after subscribing to a new list. To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send mail to LONGEVITY@TREARN. This is called "sending mail to the list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the people who have subscribed. This address (LONGEVITY@TREARN) is also called the "list address". You must never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to all the people who have subscribed. All commands must be sent to the "LISTSERV address", LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). It is very important to understand the difference between the two, but fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is like a FAX number, and the list address is like a normal phone line. If you make your FAX call someone's regular phone number by mistake, it will be an unpleasant experience for him but you will probably be excused the first time. If you do it regularly, however, he will probably get upset and send you a nasty complaint. It is the same with mailing lists, with the difference that you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at the same time, so a lot more people get annoyed if you use the wrong number. You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF LONGEVITY" command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). You can also tell LISTSERV how you want it to confirm the receipt of messages you send to the list. If you do not trust the system, send a "SET LONGEVITY REPRO" command and LISTSERV will send you a copy of your own messages, so that you can see that the message was distributed and did not get damaged on the way. After a while you may find that this is getting annoying, especially if your mail program does not tell you that the message is from you when it informs you that new mail has arrived from LONGEVITY. If you send a "SET LONGEVITY ACK NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will mail you a short acknowledgement instead, which will look different in your mailbox directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this is an acknowledgement you can read later. Finally, you can turn off acknowledgements completely with "SET LONGEVITY NOACK NOREPRO". Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get a list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX LONGEVITY" command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). You can then order these files with a "GET LONGEVITY LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter. Please note that it is presently possible for anybody to determine that you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET LONGEVITY CONCEAL" command. More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). -- Gregory Bloom mailto:Gregory.Bloom@evolving.com vox:303.740.5706 fax:303.740.5800 ESI, 6892 S. Yosemite Court, Englewood, CO 80111 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Nov 09 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!licr-user003.ucsd.edu!user From: obogler@ucsd.edu (Oliver Bogler) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: "Programmed" .vs. cumulative damage causes of cell-cycle failure Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:55:32 -0700 Organization: Ludwig Institute Lines: 54 Message-ID: References: <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: licr-user003.ucsd.edu In article <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com>, Gregory Bloom wrote: > It appears to me that owing to the continued success of immortalized > cell lines in dividing and thriving in spite of the usual environmental > assults from OH- radicals, glycolization, methylation, etc., the > question of "programmed" .vs. cumulative cell damage as the primary > cause of ageing swings heavily in favor of the "programmed" causes. Dear Gregory, It appears that some confusion between cellular and organismal ageing has crept in. Cellular ageing is, we agree, programmed in the sense that it could be prevented by nature, but isn't. In other words, cells can be immortal. What that means is that a clone of cells is immortal, not any individual cell.If you start by placing a mortal cell in a culture dish, it will divide for a few cycles (in the 10's) and then spontaneously all the cells that you have in your dish stop dividing. Note that they don't necessarily die.(see below). If you do the same with an immortal cell (say one from a cancer), it will just keep dividing for as long as people have cared to try. Note that either mortal or immortal cells can be damaged, killed etc. by environmental conditions. Another good example of immortal cells are germ cells (sperm and egg mother cells etc.). They are an unbroken line of cells from you or me to the first organism that was! That is not to say that some of the cells in that "clone" don't die, but nevertheless the line is unbroken. These cells all suffer damage, but they can obviously repair it efficiently. Organismal ageing is a different thing (excluding shortlived animals with suicide mechanisms built into them). Animals consist largely of mortal cells, which are renewed slowly from pools of stem cells (that may be immortal, or at least have a long life span). Nevertheless the animal ages, in part because in many tissues cell renewal is limited, for example the brain. Damage is accumulated slowly, and also as a result of the environment. So, although most cells are mortal in the cellular sense (they stop dividing soon after birth) they can live for over 100 years in humans. So by maintaining the health of cells that are mortal is beneficial to the organism. So don't throw out those vitamins. The question of cellular immortality is also closely linked to cancer. Cancerous cells are immortal and it is usually the case that making cells immortal in that sense increases the chance that they become cancerous. What we need is cells that are mortal (don't divide) but can function for ever, if we want to be immortal. Such functional immortality may be impossible to achieve on its own, because it may well turn out that cellular immortality is inextricably linked to cell division. Oliver Bogler obogler@ucsd.edu -- Oliver Bogler Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research, San Diego Branch obogler@ucsd.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 10 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Longevity mailing list (was: Antioxidants and Life Extension) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:42:22 GMT Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 173 Message-ID: <866873002wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> References: <30A3899A.59E2@evolving.com> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk X-Broken-Date: Saturday, Nov 11, 1995 11.42.22 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 There is now a separate MLM list for longevists, so hopefully this material will be reduced on the longevity list. (Not that I have any particular objection to MLM.) In article: <30A3899A.59E2@evolving.com> Gregory Bloom writes: > > Ron Blue wrote: > > > > On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Till Noever wrote: > > > In article , "Paul Boduch > > > (ES 1997)" wrote: > > > > > > > What exactly is the name of the newsgroup? Can't find anything under > > > > longevit.list. > > > > > > "sci.life-extension" > > HOW do you subscribe to the above if you have no newsgroup service? > > Ron Blue > > There is a longevity mailing list, which varies in quality from > research announcements to MLM pill-peddling schemes, though it seems > sadly inclined more toward the latter. I believe you can start a > subscription by sending a message to: > > LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR > > that reads: > > SUBSCRIBE LONGEVITY myname@mysite.com > > (You must substitute your actual email address for myname@mysite.com.) > > > > Here's the info on using their mail server: > > From: LONGEVITY Request > > Subject: You are now subscribed to the LONGEVITY list > Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:23:50 > > Your subscription to the LONGEVITY list (Longevity List) has > been > accepted. > > Please save this message for future reference, especially if you are > not > familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like a waste of disk space > now, > but in 6 months you will be glad you saved this information when > you > realize that you cannot remember what are the lists you are > subscribed > to, or what is the command to leave the list to avoid filling up > your > mailbox while you are on vacations. In fact, you should create a new > mail > folder for subscription confirmation messages like this one, and for > the > "welcome messages" from the list owners that you will > occasionally > receive after subscribing to a new list. > > To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the > list, > just send mail to LONGEVITY@TREARN. This is called "sending mail to > the > list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV > makes > copies for all the people who have subscribed. This > address > (LONGEVITY@TREARN) is also called the "list address". You must never > try > to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to > all > the people who have subscribed. All commands must be sent to > the > "LISTSERV address", LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or > LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). > It is very important to understand the difference between the two, > but > fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is like a > FAX > number, and the list address is like a normal phone line. If you > make > your FAX call someone's regular phone number by mistake, it will be > an > unpleasant experience for him but you will probably be excused the > first > time. If you do it regularly, however, he will probably get upset > and > send you a nasty complaint. It is the same with mailing lists, with > the > difference that you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at > the > same time, so a lot more people get annoyed if you use the wrong > number. > > You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF > LONGEVITY" > command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). You > can > also tell LISTSERV how you want it to confirm the receipt of messages > you > send to the list. If you do not trust the system, send a "SET > LONGEVITY > REPRO" command and LISTSERV will send you a copy of your own messages, > so > that you can see that the message was distributed and did not get > damaged > on the way. After a while you may find that this is getting > annoying, > especially if your mail program does not tell you that the message > is > from you when it informs you that new mail has arrived from LONGEVITY. > If > you send a "SET LONGEVITY ACK NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will mail you > a > short acknowledgement instead, which will look different in your > mailbox > directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this > is > an acknowledgement you can read later. Finally, you can turn > off > acknowledgements completely with "SET LONGEVITY NOACK NOREPRO". > > Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get > a > list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX > LONGEVITY" > command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). You > can > then order these files with a "GET LONGEVITY LOGxxxx" command, or > using > LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" > command > for more information on the latter. > > Please note that it is presently possible for anybody to determine > that > you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" > command, > which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If > you > do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET LONGEVITY > CONCEAL" > command. > > More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the > LISTSERV > reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO > REFCARD" > command to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET). > > > -- > > Gregory Bloom mailto:Gregory.Bloom@evolving.com vox:303.740.5706 > fax:303.740.5800 ESI, 6892 S. Yosemite Court, Englewood, CO 80111 > > -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 10 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!auckland.ac.nz!kcbbs!planet!chambers!steve From: steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: "Programmed" .vs. cumulative damage causes of cell-cycle failure Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 18:30:17 +1200 References: <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com> Organization: PlaNet (Auckland New Zealand) Lines: 22 In <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com> Gregory Bloom writes: >It appears to me that owing to the continued success of immortalized >cell lines in dividing and thriving in spite of the usual environmental >assults from OH- radicals, glycolization, methylation, etc., the >question of "programmed" .vs. cumulative cell damage as the primary >cause of ageing swings heavily in favor of the "programmed" causes. That's only if what you and I refer to as "aging" is the result of loss of cell doubling potential (ie. the "Hayflick limit".) I'd love to see some evidence that it is. Besides which, an immortalised cell line quickly loses it's resemblance to the cell type from which it arose - in other words it's damaged, or "aged" might be a better word ;-) Steve -- ________________________ (I_lurk,_therefore_I_am!_\ ,,, Steve Chambers (o o) steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz -----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 10 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.usa.net!usenet From: Terry Anderson Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: (no subject) Date: 11 Nov 1995 03:02:31 GMT Organization: Gateway HS Medallion, Aurora, CO 80012 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <4813o7$ras@shiva.usa.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: port20.den1-annex.usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:bionet.molbio.ageing Pycnogenol, a natural food supplement made from ingredients from the pine bark tree, has some extraordinary antioxidant properties of a complex combination of bioflavonoids. Pycnogenol has an exceptionally high level of proanthocyanidins, its main ingredient, and it also contains other water soluble bioflavonoids. This unique combination provides a powerful, completely balanced all-natural antioxidant. According to recent studies, a growing number of experts agree that we need additional antioxidants to support our natural ability to fight free radicals. A free radical is an oxygen molecule with an odd number of electrons. Because electrons are normally paired, this creates an imbalance, resulting in unstable, reactive and destructive molecules. While some free radical activity is necessary for the proper functioning of the body, too much may cause damage. Unfortunately, many of today's environmental influences bombard us with free radicals and possibly suppress our natural ability to hold them in check. Fortunately, research has identified substances known as bioflavonoids (especially proanthocyanidins) as an excellent source to help fight free radicals. Although some bioflavonoids occur naturally in fruits and vegetables, only 20% of Americans eat the recommended daily serving of these foods. The lack of dietary intake is compounded by the fact that growing methods and processing procedures actually deplete and even destroy these naturally occurring antioxidants. Pynogenol is an excellent source of antioxidant supplementation. It is water soluble and exceptionally high in proanthocyanids and other bioflavonoids. These unique qualities provide a superior natural antioxidant that is easily absorbed. One of the best sources of pycnogenol is Maritime Prime, made from the bark of maritime pine bark. To learn more about pycnogenol, send for a free tape and listen to two doctors talk about this natural food supplement. Send name and address to bigduster@aol.com or on the Net duster.usa.net From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 10 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: immortalized cells Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:41:00 GMT Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 31 Message-ID: <594007855wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> References: <30A28F9A.1CFB@evolving.com> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk X-Broken-Date: Saturday, Nov 11, 1995 11.41.00 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 I wonder whether all this about making cells immortal is a red herring. What I should have thought is needed is a way for enabling cells to be replaced properly in an orderly method, without the "randomisation" that is seen as ageing. If you use any analogue recording device and make copies of copies of copies eventually the original becommes distorted beyond recongition. If any of these devices made copies of mechanisms, we would find that the copies would be unable to function after a short number of cycles. That is why we copy computer programs using digital recording with crc checks and other methods to ensure a perfect copy each time. It is possible to do it. All (!) we have to do is to devise a similar method of making our body copy cells (and thereby all the parts and organs which are made of cells) better than it does now and we will live longer. Maybe we can't acheive immortality completely this way, but we could certainly eliminate agein as a cause of death. It is an improved copying process, not a cell immortalising process that is required. -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** **** What is the point of life if it ends in death? **** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Nov 10 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! Date: 11 Nov 1995 08:17:25 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 8 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <47vuq2$1bl5@ns4-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net >>>CUT>> > >>>The Sierra redwood has an estimated maximum age > >>>of 4,000 years and ages to 2,200 to 2,300 verified. >>>>CUT Would there be any chemicals in redwood that prolongs life? Ron Blue From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Nov 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Melatonin and Aging Date: 12 Nov 1995 19:41:40 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 60 Message-ID: <485ilk$des@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kelly.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hmmm. I guess I'd better make good on my threat. So what's the story about melatonin and aging? First, my credentials. Im a medical writer who has spent the past three years researching melatonin in the process of writing a book on the subject for the general public. My coauthor is Russel J. Reiter, Ph.D., Professor of Neuroendocriniology at the U.of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, widely regarded as an international authority on melatonin. (Check him out on Medline or in Scientific Citations.) In addition to working with Reiter, I have interviewed over fifty of the top melatonin researchers in the world and accumulated my own reference library of over 1,000 papers on melatonin. I suspect you all know what melatonin is -- a substance produced by the pineal gland, primarily at night. It is commonly referred to as a hormone because it has numerous hormonal properties, but it is also an extremely potent antioxidant. One of the first insights that melatonin might be related to aging was the 1981 observation by Reiter that melatonin production declined with age in rodents. [Melatonin is the most potent hormone known, in that it has effects in the picogram range. This is also why it was so late to come to researchers attention. Until the 1980s it was impossible to measure with accuracy the amount of melatonin in the bloodstream.] For a reference: Reiter, R. J. Experimental Aging Research 1982; 8:27-30. In 1985, the fact that melatonin had anti-gonadotropic functions (its seasonal increase triggers seasonal reproduction in many animals, partly due to melatonin-induced atrophy of the gonads) and that inhibiting the reproductive hormones has been known to delay aging prompted a group of Italian researchers to begin a rodent longevity experiment using melatonin. [Maestroni, G.J., "Pineal Melatonin, Its Fundamental Immunoregulatory ROle in Aging and Cancer." Annals of the NY Academy of Sciences 1988; 521:140-148.] Giving mice a small amount of melatonin in their nightly drinking water resulted in a 20% increase in longevity. Numerous mice studies have been conducted since that time by the same Italian researchers, with similar results. The only other group to observe the anti-aging effects of melatonin on rodents has been an Israeli group that published a study in 1995 showing that nightly administration of melatonin in the drinking water of rats prevented the age-related decline in immunity and allowed a much higher percentage of the rats to reach old age. At 23 months of age -- and 15 months of melatonin treatment -- 87% of the melatonin-treated rats were still alive compared to 43% of those not given the hormone. Most of the survivingg control rats had pneumonia, which was not observed in the melatonin group. ["Effects of Long-term administration of melatonin .. on the ageing Rat" NeuroReport 1995; 6:785-88.] Longevity studies involving melatonin have not been conducted using other animals. If melatonin does indeed have anti-aging properties, what might be the explanation? Reiter believes it is due to its unparalleled antioxidant properties, which I will explore in a subsequent post. Jo For a Melatonin FAQ go to http://www.teleport.com/~jor +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Nov 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!umdac!news From: "Mattias Törnudd" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: (no subject) Date: 12 Nov 1995 16:26:52 GMT Organization: University of Umea, Sweden Lines: 4 Message-ID: <48578c$2h6@studium.student.umu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipcs3-3.modem.umu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I´m a medical student and I´m working on a papaper about telomeras and its importance for developing cancer. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Nov 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!umdac!news From: "Mattias Törnudd" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Telomerase Date: 12 Nov 1995 16:33:42 GMT Organization: University of Umea, Sweden Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4857l6$2u3@studium.student.umu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipcs3-3.modem.umu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I´m a medical student and I´m working om a paper about telomerase and it´s impotance for developing cancer. I would realy appreciate all kind of information. Mattias Törnudd mastod95@student.umu.se From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Nov 11 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.general,sci.life-extension Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!proton.llumc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!spdcc!crucible!wbe From: wbe@psr.com (Winston Edmond) Subject: Re: The immortal are living among us NOW! In-Reply-To: Ann Tekatch's message of 9 Nov 1995 03:24:18 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@psr.com Organization: Panther Software and Research References: <47c12n$512@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <47rs92$4pr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:31:27 GMT Lines: 12 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2132 bionet.general:18420 sci.life-extension:8314 Ann Tekatch writes: > It is the Brislecone Pine. > The giant advances will come from radical steps ... Patient: "Doctor, you mean I'll be able to live forever?" Doctor: "Yes, but you'll no longer be able to move about. You'll only be able to stand in place and wave your arms." Still, research is fine. -WBE From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Nov 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!JEEVES.UCSD.EDU!hoschek From: hoschek@JEEVES.UCSD.EDU (Gisela Hoschek) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: immortalized cells Date: 12 Nov 1995 07:32:12 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 15 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199511121530.HAA10912@jeeves.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net > >It is an improved copying process, not a cell immortalising process >that is required. > Would you like to put end end to evolution then? What is life without change? Gisela Hoschek Personal editing-proofing-translating for bio communication 1124 Nardo Rd. Encinitas, CA 92024 USA (()) Tel. (619) 944-4233 **(((())))********** e-mail: hoschek@jeeves.ucsd.edu *** ((())) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*** From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Nov 12 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!waikato!celebrian.otago.ac.nz!adi005.adi.co.nz!user From: tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz (Till Noever) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Aging: Inactive List? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:01:18 +1200 Organization: University of Otago Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: adi005.adi.co.nz In article , "Paul Boduch (ES 1997)" wrote: > Can those of us who still haven't figured out the secrets of immortality > at least try to do so in *my lifetime*(for obvious reasons)? > Then we can decide how elitist we want to be in sharing the information > considering the population growth problem. I'm not too sure that it's just a matter of dealing with the 'population growth problem'. In fact, as I've pointed out several times on sci.life-extension, that one's a red herring anyway. The real issue is one of self-preservation. I have enough faith in the power of human stupidity to suspect that, if someone came along tomorrow and waved a readily manufacturable recipe for significantly extending the human lifespan in people's faces somebody'd probably kill him, and pretend that his discivery/invention was crap. Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid. Apart from that, I share your sentiments about getting these things done in our life-time! -- -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Till Noever (a.k.a. tillno@bifrost.otago.ac.nz or till@adi.co.nz) "...all those moments will be lost in time - like tears in rain..." *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!elvis.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: ben1910@delphi.com Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin and Aging Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 14:42:46 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <485ilk$des@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com X-To: Jo Robinson Jo Robinson writes: > First, my credentials. Im a medical writer who has > spent the past three years researching melatonin in the process >of writing a book on the subject for the general public. My coauthor >is Russel J. Reiter, Ph.D., Professor of Neuroendocriniology at the U.of >Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, widely regarded as an >international authority on melatonin. (Check him out on Medline or >in Scientific Citations.) I am wondering if your book addresses this concern. Taking melatonin supplements clearly has a benefitial effect on some people. But is it possible that these supplements suppress the normal function of the pineal gland? In other words, is it possible that by taking melatonin, you make your pineal gland produce less melatonin on its own? If so, the long term effect may be negative. I am just curious. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: MELATONIN? Date: 12 Nov 1995 21:39:56 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 17 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <47tdji$h40@maureen.teleport.com> Would like to see brief list of pro's and con's about melatonin. On 9 Nov 1995, Jo Robinson wrote: > Is this group interested in an in depth discussion of the > science (not the sensationalism) of melatonin? I have over 1200 > scientific articles about melatonin in my home library and would > enter in such a discussion if the interest is there. > Jo > > -- > +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | > | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | > +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!not-for-mail From: "T20" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Cholesteryl Ester Transfer Protein (CETP) and longevity Date: 14 Nov 1995 10:48:27 -0000 Lines: 10 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <489s5r$28m@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.uk X-Pmrqc: 1 Variation at the cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) locus is a well-known risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Wilson et al (genetic predisposition to hyperlipidaemia in diabetes: the end of the beginning? J Internal Medicine 1994; 236 (Supp): 53-61) state that there are observations suggesting that CETP deficiency might be associated with longevity. However, they do not mention a reference. Can anyone suggest some articles on this subject? Bas Heijmans From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-poitiers.fr!usenet From: joets@hermes.univ-poitiers.fr (Johann JOETS) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: "Programmed" .vs. cumulative damage causes of cell-cycle failure Date: 14 Nov 1995 20:19:51 GMT Organization: IBMIG universite de Poitiers Lines: 24 Message-ID: <48atl7$64b@hermes.univ-poitiers.fr> References: <30A38FE7.1CFB@evolving.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bmo16.univ-poitiers.fr X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.2 In article , steve@chambers.ak.planet.co.nz (Steve Chambers) says: > > >Besides which, an immortalised cell line quickly loses it's resemblance >to the cell type from which it arose - in other words it's damaged, or >"aged" might be a better word ;-) > Immortalised cell line are often in a less differenciated state than parental. So "younger"... If they become immortal, they stop to age ! (it's a damage too -) ) Then it raises the idea that cells are able to "decide" to not age and to respond to time assaults. So why aging ? for evolution ? ( are bacteria able to age ?) Johann *********************************************************** Johann JOETS Institut de Biologie Moleculaire et d'Ingenierie Genetique Laboratoire de Genetique Physiologique et Moleculaire Universite de Poitiers 40, Av du Recteur Pineau, 86 022 Poitiers TEL : 49 45 38 64 FAX : 49 45 35 03 ************************************************************ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!emory!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!RacerX.mse.jhu.edu!news.jhu.edu!news From: Amy Voltz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.gdb Subject: Re: mdm-2 cDNA source? Date: 14 Nov 1995 19:24:51 GMT Organization: HCF - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland, USA Lines: 37 Message-ID: <48aqe3$eam@news.jhu.edu> References: <48aicp$lb8@epx.cis.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.239.76.53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4c) To: selby@lenti.med.umn.edu X-URL: news:48aicp$lb8@epx.cis.umn.edu Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:36290 bionet.molbio.ageing:2139 bionet.molbio.gdb:394 Dear Scott, There is information on 2 cDNA clones for the MDM2 gene in the Human Genome Database (http://gdbwww.gdb.org/gdb/docs/gdbhome.html). I would recommend searching via the new interface at http://gdbdev.gdb.org/gdb/lite/docs/home.html Choose reagents for gene analysis and enter mdm2, select cDNA clones. This search will return two cDNA clones - including what exactly is cloned and who you can contact to obtain them (Kenneth Kinzler here at Hopkins). If you have any trouble finding this information in GDB please contact me. Sincerely, Amy Voltz, avoltz@gdb.org selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med-Hem)) wrote: >I'm looking for a source of mdm-2 cDNA. I'd like to probe some Northern >blots, and haven't found a source yet. Any help would be appreciated. > >______________________________________________________________________________ > || Scott A. Selby 6098)o%:::%o(860 > ==== Univ. of Minnesota 098)o%:::%o(8609 > | |__ Dept. of Med/Hematology 6o%:%o(86098) > | |-.\ Box 480 UMHC (86098)o > |__| \\ Minneapolis, MN 55455 6098)o%::%o9 > || || 098)o%::::::%o9 > ======__| selby@lenti.med.umn.edu 6o%::::::%o(860 > ________||__ 6o%::%o(8609 >/____________\ o(86098) >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!lenti.med.umn.edu!selby From: selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med-Hem)) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: mdm-2 cDNA source? Date: 14 Nov 1995 17:07:37 GMT Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 16 Message-ID: <48aicp$lb8@epx.cis.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lenti.med.umn.edu Summary: Looking for a source of mdm-2 cDNA for probing Northerns Keywords: Northern blotting, mdm-2, cDNA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:36286 bionet.molbio.ageing:2138 I'm looking for a source of mdm-2 cDNA. I'd like to probe some Northern blots, and haven't found a source yet. Any help would be appreciated. ______________________________________________________________________________ || Scott A. Selby 6098)o%:::%o(860 ==== Univ. of Minnesota 098)o%:::%o(8609 | |__ Dept. of Med/Hematology 6o%:%o(86098) | |-.\ Box 480 UMHC (86098)o |__| \\ Minneapolis, MN 55455 6098)o%::%o9 || || 098)o%::::::%o9 ======__| selby@lenti.med.umn.edu 6o%::::::%o(860 ________||__ 6o%::%o(8609 /____________\ o(86098) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Nov 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!concert!gatech2!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!athena.ulaval.ca!news From: Jean Charles Dussault Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin Date: 14 Nov 1995 22:12:30 GMT Organization: Université Laval Lines: 9 Message-ID: <48b48e$bu1@athena.ulaval.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: poste42_232.crhdq.ulaval.ca X-Newsreader: Melatonin and aging? You say that melatonin has anti-gonadotropic function and that inhibiting the reproductive hormones is known to delay aging.. but removing the gonads do the same, no? Jean Charles Dussault jchdussa@rsvs.ulaval.ca From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 14 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin Date: 15 Nov 1995 01:47:13 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <48bgr1$b4i@maureen.teleport.com> References: <48b48e$bu1@athena.ulaval.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: linda.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] JeanCharlesDussault wrote: : Melatonin and aging? : : You say that melatonin has anti-gonadotropic function and that inhibiting : the reproductive hormones is known to delay aging.. but removing the gonads : do the same, no? Yes, Jean. Removing the gonads or delaying puberty has also been shown to delay aging. REmoving the testicles is particularly effective in that lowering testosterone levels has been shown to extend life in both animals and humans. [[Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 1994; 61:276-84.] However, a know a number of men who would prefer taking melatonin .... Or, did I miss your point? Jo -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Nov 14 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!csn!carbon!night.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: THe antioxidant properties of melatonin Date: 15 Nov 1995 02:17:17 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 94 Message-ID: <48bijd$b4i@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: linda.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I believe the most exciting melatonin studies -- and the ones that have the most relevance to aging -- are those conducted in the past two years at UTHSC in San Antonio by Russel J. Reiter and his post-docs. In 1993, Reiter and his colleagues made the surprising discovery that melatonin is not just a potent hormone, it is also an antioxidant. THis is surprising because no other hormone has been shown to have significant antioxidant properties. But what is most remarkable is that it now appears that melatonin is the most potent and universal antioxidant known. Unfortunately, I don't know how much the readers of this group know about free radicals, so I don't know how much detail to include. Please let me know if I need to backfill. There are many theories of aging, but the one with the most adherents is the free radical theory of aging. This theory, first proposed in the 1950s by Denham Harmon (who was recently nominated for the 1995 Nobel PRize for his efforts), suggests that we age to a large degree because of damage caused be free radicals, molecules that have an unpaired electron in the outer orbit. THis solitary electron forces a free radical to pirate an electron from another molecule or to dump its spare electron onto an unsuspecting host. SInce electrons are the "glue" that hold a molecule together, molecules that are disrupted by free radicals suffer considerable damage. IF these molecules happen to be essential for the functioning of a cell (they might be in the DNA molecule, in key proteins, or the membrane lipids, for example) then the cell can become destroyed or may mutate and become cancerous. Antioxidants counter this process. Melatonin operates by selflessly donating an electron to a free radical, sparing a more vital molecule. What makes melatonin so unique -- and so important for our health and well-being -- are the following factors: 1. Melatonin is the most potent antioxidant so far discovered. It is twice as effective at protecting lipid membranes as vitamin E, 5 times as effective at scavenging a particularly destructive free radical called the hydroxyl radical as glutathione, and 500 times as effective at protectin human cells from radiation (a free-radical generating process) as DMSO. ["A review of the evidence supporting melatonin's role as an antioxidant" Reiter, R.J. THe Journal of Pineal Research 1995; 18:1-11.] 2. Melatonin crosses the blood-brain barrier with ease. Melatonin is a small and lipophilic molecule and can traverse the blood-brain barrier in suficient quantities to protect vital brain neurons. It has been argued that free radical damage to neurons is one of the most destructive part of the aging process. 3. Melatonin protects every part of the cell, from the membrane to the DNA molecule inside the nucleus. This is not true for other antioxidants. They are limited to preventing damage either in fatty membranes or the cytosol. Melatonin is both fat and water soluble, a rarity in nature. It's fat-soluble properties are well known. FOr a discussion of its in water, see "High melatonin solubility in aqueous medium" J. of Pineal Research 1994; 16:198-201.) 4. Melatonin offers preferential protection to the DNA molecule. Melatonin is found in greatest abundance in the nucleus of the cell where it is closely associated with the DNA molecule. Numerous studies have shown that melatonin offers unparalleled protection to the DNA molecule from free-radical generating substances such as pesticides, radiation, and carcinogens. [Mutation Research 1995; 346:23-31. Cancer Letters 1993; 70:65-71 J. of Pineal Research 1994; 16:198-201] 5. Melatonin is not pro-oxidant under any known condition. Some antioxidants can actually produce free radicals under some circumstances. Vitamin C is an example. When vitamin C is exposed to free iron, which can happen when tissues are damaged by heat, trauma, infection, radiation or toxins, it can assist in the creation of free radicals. Melatonin has never been shown to generate free radicals. It is the opinion of Reiter and a number of other researchers that the gradual loss of melatonin that accompanies the aging process contributes to the aging process primarily by allowing more free radical damage to accumulate in key cells. Taking melatonin supplements starting in middle age may prevent this age-related acceleration of free radical damage. But there is yet another way that melatonin may delay the aging process, and that is by reversing the age-related decline in immunity. The subject for the third posting. Jo Coauthor with Russel Reiter, Ph.D. of Melatonin: Your Body's Natural Wonder Drug For a melatonin FAQ go to http://www.teleport.com/~jor -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Jo Robinson | jor@teleport.com | | (503)284-4676 | 2826 NE 18th Portland, OR 97212 | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------y-----+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!simtel!news2.acs.oakland.edu!cwis-20.wayne.edu!usenet From: Anton Scott Goustin Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: mdm-2 cDNA source? Date: 15 Nov 1995 22:57:28 GMT Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI USA Lines: 32 Message-ID: <48dr8o$pkv@cwis-20.wayne.edu> References: <48aicp$lb8@epx.cis.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: asgoff.biosci.wayne.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) To: selby@lenti.med.umn.edu,asg@cmb.biosci.wayne.edu X-URL: news:48aicp$lb8@epx.cis.umn.edu Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:36366 bionet.molbio.ageing:2144 selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med-Hem)) wrote: >I'm looking for a source of mdm-2 cDNA. I'd like to probe some Northern >blots, and haven't found a source yet. Any help would be appreciated. > >______________________________________________________________________________ > || Scott A. Selby 6098)o%:::%o(860 > ==== Univ. of Minnesota 098)o%:::%o(8609 > | |__ Dept. of Med/Hematology 6o%:%o(86098) > | |-.\ Box 480 UMHC (86098)o > |__| \\ Minneapolis, MN 55455 6098)o%::%o9 > || || 098)o%::::::%o9 > ======__| selby@lenti.med.umn.edu 6o%::::::%o(860 > ________||__ 6o%::%o(8609 >/____________\ o(86098) >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott, Which mdm-2 cDNA do you need? Mouse? There are three human variants? Did you try the mouse group who first cloned the cDNA: Fakharzadeh, S.S., Trusko, S.P. & George, D.L. (1991). Tumorigenic potential associated with enhanced expression of a gene that is amplified in a mouse tumor cell line. EMBO J., 10(6), 1565-1569. There are three mdm2 variants in humans: Sigalas, I. & Lunec, J. Multiple alternate spliced mdm2 transcripts with loss of p53 binding domain sequences: transforming ability and frequent detection in human cancer. Unpublished. Check out GenBank accession U033199. If you need the human probe, just made some custom oligonucleotides. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Nov 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Sci-Life extension Date: 15 Nov 1995 22:27:18 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 42 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Till, Some of us cannot access sci-life extension. Can you suggest a way to access some of the commentary?.....Don On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Till Noever wrote: > In article , "Paul > Boduch (ES 1997)"