From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 01 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Miller Quarles and telomeres Date: 1 Feb 1996 19:08:19 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 33 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <199602011914.IAA08887@host02.net.voyager.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Deck, Miller sent me a copy of the Times article in the mail today. Amazing coincidence that it came on the same day I got your e-mail message. If you'll give me your snail address I'll send you some of the literature from COADS and Miller's recent newsletter.... Don Ashley On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Deck Hazen wrote: > At 12:14 PM 2/1/96 -0600, you wrote: > >Deck, I am very interested in seing the article in the Times. So are > >many other people beyond the longevity list. > > > >We would be very grateful if you would send as much as possible thru > >e-mail and I will fwd it to other list groups. > > > >Thanks, Don > > > > > Hi Don, > > Yes, I'm happy to re-type the article in full and I'll try to get it done > this weekend and send it along via e-mail. I have a couple of other (older) > references that I will include as well. If you have any references you'd > care to share with me I'd be grateful. > > -- Deck > > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 01 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!news From: Michael Kyba Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: NYC Area Cell Death Club Meeting Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 14:40:55 +0800 Organization: UBC Lines: 4 Message-ID: <3111B1F7.441A@bcu.ubc.ca> References: <4erc0m$d6k@news1.usa.pipeline.com> Reply-To: kyba@bcu.ubc.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: n987.net.ubc.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b5 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: "Richard A. Lockshin" Why are you advertising your little pizza party on a world-wide platform? MSK From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Melatonin update Date: 3 Feb 1996 22:10:31 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 44 Message-ID: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kelly.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hi Folks -- I've been off line for a while, tending to family matters, vacationing in Mexico - poor me - researching other projects. But I do have some information to report. A number of people suggested that I should try to determine the amount of melatonin being consumed each night by my melatonin-treated mice.* I measured their water consumption for several nights, calculated the amount of melatonin in the water, and then divided by the number of mice. If I got all my decimal places correct, each mouse consumed .075 mg. of melatonin per kilogram. The human equivalent (for a 15o pound human) would be about 5 milligrams. I am using less melatonin than other people have used. Maestroni and Pierpaoli used ten times more. Zizapel used four times more. The behavioral difference between the control mice and the melatonin- treated mice is still pronounced. The melatonin mice are less fearful (i.e. they spend more time in open spaces) more inquisitive (more likely to explore a new object placed in the cage) more clever (when challenged with food in a hard-to-reach space, they figure out how to get to it sooner.) I don't know how to explain these results, because they have not been observed by others. It's almost as if the melatonin-treated mice have become a race of Amazons. As you know, there's been a lot of negative buzz about melatonin in the press lately, set off to some extent, I believe, by the wildly exaggerated claims made in the Melatonin Miracle. I want to assure you that the research remains very promising. SEveral studies are in the pipeline that attest to melatonin's anti-cancer and immuno-stimulating properties. Jo (Yes, I'm a she.) * For those of you new to this list, I am a medical writer, not a researcher. I am doing the melatonin anti-aging experiment to satisfy my own curiousity and to goad legitimate researchers into replicating it. I only have ten mice in my "study." They are now 16 months old. Five of them have been given melatonin in their drinking water (1 mg per liter) at night since they were 9 months old. One control mouse died for unknown n reasons. I plan to continue the experiment until all the mice have died. -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Jo Robinson jor@teleport.com Co-author, with Russel J. Reiter- MELATONIN: Your Body's Natural Wonder Drug For a melatonin FAQ, go to: http://www.teleport.com/~jor (Note: I have no financial connection with any melatonin supplier.) +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa!cpatil From: cpatil@itsa.ucsf.edu (Chris Patil) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: DNA Base lesions Date: 3 Feb 1996 22:46:51 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Computing Facility Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4f0okr$l4t@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu In article Jorge Braz writes: > Can anybody tell me where I can find any informations about rate >constants, mechanisms, product analysis or anything at all about DNA base >lesions by recative oxygen species? I know that Kurt Randerath did extensive work on DNA base lesions and the change in the proportions of different lesions over the course of aging. I don't have cites, but it would be easy to do a search. The articles that I remember are pre-1991. Hope this helps! From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!xara.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: NYC Area Cell Death Club Meeting Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 10:15:27 +0100 Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 22 Message-ID: <581403029wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> References: <4erc0m$d6k@news1.usa.pipeline.com> <3111B1F7.441A@bcu.ubc.ca> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-Mail2News-Path: disperse.demon.co.uk!post.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk In article: <3111B1F7.441A@bcu.ubc.ca> Michael Kyba writes: > > Why are you advertising your little pizza party on a world-wide > platform? > > MSK Its a global village now! -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** In the information age, sharing can increase world wealth enormously, because giving information does not decrease your information. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JohndeR Fast loading, very few slow pictures From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!internet!biosci!not-for-mail From: biohelp (BIOSCI Administrator) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: BIOSCI miniFAQ, ver. 14-DEC-95 Date: 3 Feb 1996 02:01:11 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 199 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199602031000.CAA08325@net.bio.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net (LAST REVISION: 14-DEC-95) This BIOSCI "miniFAQ" is designed to answer the questions that come up the *most frequently*. The main BIOSCI FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) is accessible on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.bio.net/. Contents: -------- 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. -------------------------------------------------------- As of 10 December 1995, all BIOSCI/bionet full newsgroups are accessible through the World Wide Web (WWW) at URL http://www.bio.net. One can read and reply publicly or privately to both recent postings and archived messages through one's Web browser if it is configured properly to send e-mail. Each newsgroup is equipped with its own WAIS index in addition to the master index for the entire set. The main BIOSCI home page also has access to the BIO-JOURNALS Table of Contents database WAIS index and the BIOSCI user address database described in another item further below. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. ------------------------------------------------------- BIOSCI is a set of parallel USENET newsgroups (the "bionet" groups), mailing lists, and a hypermail archive at URL http://www.bio.net/. The same postings are distributed on all media (except for a small number of mailing-list-only groups at net.bio.net). Unfortunately it is becoming a despicable practice on the Internet (by a few people out to make a fast buck) to do automated mass postings to thousands of newsgroups and mailing lists. These attempts to grab free advertising are refered to as "spams" in the usual, somewhat boneheaded, net terminology. USENET is more susceptible to this practice, and many spams originate on the USENET groups and then are passed on to the mailing lists. However, spammers also get lists of mailing addresses and hit these too, so neither medium is immune. What should you do personally if you get junk mail? --------------------------------------------------- Just delete it and move on without reading it further. Filing a protest is becoming increasingly useless because spammers are often disguising the addresses where the messages are sent from. Unless you really understand Internet mail systems, your attempt at protest by sending replies to the message will often end up being sent to the address of an innocent person that the spammer is victimizing. What can BIOSCI/bionet do to protect its newsgroups? ---------------------------------------------------- The only solution currently available is to moderate the newsgroup. If this newsgroup is already moderated, then you are in good shape. Moderation protects the USENET distribution from about 95% of the spams that are being sent to date and protects the mailing lists completely. Moderation means, however, that someone has to take the time to review each message before it goes out. We have set up software here that simply allows the moderator to forward to an address at net.bio.net messages that (s)he wishes to have distributed. This takes no more time than that needed to read the message and pass it on, say about 1 min. per message. Most newsgroups currently have a discussion leader who is responsible for their newsgroup. The discussions leaders and their e-mail addresses are listed in the BIOSCI Information Sheet which is available on the Web at http://www.bio.net/. If a newsgroup is being hit with too many junk postings, please contact the discussion leader for that group and see if there is interest in moderating the group. Please do not assume that by simply posting a complaint to the newsgroup itself, anyone on the BIOSCI staff will act on your complaint. With close to 100 newsgroups to run, the BIOSCI staff has to rely on the discussion leaders of each newsgroup to report problems directly to us at biosci-help@net.bio.net. We will moderate any of our newsgroups if the discussion leader tells us that the readership of the group wishes to do so and if a moderator is willing to do the work. For most BIOSCI/bionet groups, this entails only a few minutes of work each day. Moderating a newsgroup will resolve probably 95% of the junk postings on the USENET distribution. Unfortunately there are easy ways for determined spammers to override the moderation mechanism on USENET, but we can protect our e-mail subscribers from unwanted postings if the newsgroup is moderated. You can also access our newsgroups over the WWW at URL http://www.bio.net. While this Web interface will not stop spammers from trying to post to the groups, this will give you yet another way, besides using USENET news, to keep the junk out of your personal mail files. For those of you with local USENET news systems, the Web interface will also give you faster access to new newsgroups and recent postings. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. ------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE: The BIOSCI management does NOT act on subscription/unsubscription requests that are posted improperly to the newsgroups and mailing lists. People who do this only bother everyone on the lists to no avail. Please be sure to follow the proper procedures below. Gory details are in the BIOSCI Information sheets on the Web at http://www.bio.net. Below we give an example utilizing the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS list at both of our two BIOSCI sites: Users in the Americas and Pacific Rim countries who use the BIOSCI ------------------------------------------------------------------ node at computer net.bio.net: ---------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@net.bio.net. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to biosci-server@net.bio.net. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Do NOT put your e-mail address or other text on these lines. The server only allows you to cancel your subscription if the address on your mail header matches the address on our mailing list. Please ask for help at biosci-help@net.bio.net if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. Users in Europe, Africa, and Central Asia who use the BIOSCI node at -------------------------------------------------------------------- computer daresbury.ac.uk (also known as dl.ac.uk): ------------------------------------------------- To subscribe and unsubscribe to/from the BIOSCI lists, you need to specify the full USENET newsgroup name with "bionet-news." prepended. The USENET newsgroup names are listed in the BIOSCI Information sheet on the Web at http://www.bio.net/. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS list the USENET newsgroup name is bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts, thus the appropriate commands are sub bionet-news.bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts unsub bionet-news.bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts These commands are included in a message addressed to mxt@dl.ac.uk, NOT to the newsgroup mailing addresses. As usual, include the text in the body of the message as text on the Subject: line is ignored. To unsubscribe from all the lists at the UK node, use unsub bionet-news Please note that if the address in the list is different than the one in your mail message header, you will not be able to unsubscribe by this method. If you have problems, please mail biosci@daresbury.ac.uk. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Please take this opportunity to add your name, address, and research interest information to the BIOSCI User Address Database if you have not already done so. You can fill out the address form directly through our Web page at URL http://www.bio.net/adrform.html. The address database is reindexed nightly for WWW access (the URL is http://www.bio.net/). If you are not directly on the Internet but can reach it by e-mail, please use our waismail server to access the user directory. waismail use is described above. You can also request a user address form by e-mail from biosci-help@net.bio.net. Please check your database entry from time-to-time to see if your address information is still up-to-date. Because of our limited personnel resources, we ask that you resubmit a *complete* form to revise your entry; we only replace complete entries and do not have resources to edit old forms. Sincerely, Dave Kristofferson BIOSCI/bionet Manager biosci-help@net.bio.net From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: How we are aged? Date: 3 Feb 1996 09:16:03 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4ev94j$e2u@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) I am very interested in the aging mechanism. According to Hayflick's theory, the definite capacity of proliferation of the somatic cells may be the cause of aging. Is there anybody who explain it to me? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 02 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mikemldvn@aol.com (MikeMldvn) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Social Isolation/Men Date: 3 Feb 1996 16:03:19 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 146 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f0iin$q9t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: mikemldvn@aol.com (MikeMldvn) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com In a recent article on suicide among older adults, the Centers for Disease Control was reported to have found that: *Men, who account for 81 percent of elderly suicides, were 2.7 times as likely to kill themselves if they were divorced or widowed than if they were married.* The news item stated: ``The underlying factor that seems to play a part in almost all suicides is the feeling of hopelessness. If you can give the person an alternative to suicide they're willing to take it,'' (CDC) said. ``Most people who are thinking about taking their own life are willing to do something else.'' *** I've posted quite a number of items on social isolation and suicide prevention among older adults to the AOL SeniorNet forum and to Internet newsgroups over the past several years. I recently checked some of my notes on social isolation and suicide among the elderly, and thought that posting some of the material here might get by without too many complaints; the issue, in my opinion, is far more of a *social* than a *health* issue. (I make no claim to expertese on the subject; I am a lay person, however, my sources include government and institutional reports, like the Public Health Service's *Healthy People 2000*, the journals and newsletters of the American Association of Suicidology, and other professional literature that is not overly technical for my understanding. Occasionally I add my impressions and experiences, and post online, hoping that the info might be of interest to others.) ***For example, from the Healthy People 2000 studies: "Social isolation is both a risk factor for disease and a measure of reduced functional independence. Social support networks are of critical importance in promoting the health and independence of older adults. Life changes common to the seventh and eighth decades can increase the risk of social isolation. Retirement and changes in social roles can affect systems of contact and support, as can the loss of spouses and close friends. "Community support networks that provide services to help older adults maintain independence are also critical interventions for reducing social isolations. Primary care providers can also play a critical role, not only in the identification of individuals at risk, but also by supplying information and referral to available services." ...a personal experience: Several years ago, as an experiment in dealing with my own social isolation, I tried to organize a group of about a dozen older men to meet weekly at a senior center near my home. Following quotes one of several public announcements I mailed to the local media, retirement communities, and leading social and civic groups: "SENIOR MEN FORM DISCUSSION GROUP AT (name of center) "Male senior citizens are invited to meet 9 AM each Friday at the (place -- address) for coffee and to talk. Those who come can just listen to others tell about about places they've been, things they've seen and done, and what really happened to them after they retired compared to what they expected. If anyone wants to, they can give a personal "...how goes it..." about themselves. Meetings will usually open with a brief discussion on a subject of general interest. No charge; no solicitations; nothing being sold; open to the public. "The potential value of (the group) to the community is based on the U. S. Public Health Service's (PHS) September 1990 report Healthy People 2000 which states that there are many opportunities which can be taken during the decade to enhance the well-being and health of all Americans. "The PHS summary report emphasizes that all levels sectors of our society are involved, especially within local communities. The (name of group) is NOT a support group where participants examine their own involvement in a shared experience. The concept, rather, is based on PHS observations in (the quote from "Social Networks," above) " (End of Announcement) Attendance at several of the weekly gatherings ranged from one (me) to five (at one meeting) but most often, one other older man. No problem about interaction though; each one-hour meetings was fully taken up with discussions on a variety of subjects. In short, those men who did show up agreed the gathering was worth while. After about a half-dozen meetings I was the only one who showed up, so that was it. The lack of success probably had several reasons: the meeting place was not within easy walking distance of retirement communities and residential areas, and parking space for motor vehicles was limited. It might also be that part of the problem was that socially isolated older men need to break out from their taciturnity, and their inability to admit to the social isolation in which they find themselves. This is especially true among men in their seventh and beyond decades who no longer have the powerful motivational bonds of continuity and human interaction which accompanied Job, and wife and children who depended on them. This reluctance to speak seems to be widespread among older men in our American culture; nevertheless, older men who experience losses (health, finances, marital, bereavement, etc.) often do blur their focus and motivations on positive values and drift into apathy, despair, and hopelessness. Being active with hobbies, chores, social, political, civic and religious commitments does provide focus for many older men, however, for others that isn't the answer. What is it, then, that disheartens so many older men and which so significantly raises their suicide rates above those of women? The year 2000 health objective to reduce suicide among older men is going to take far more community involvement than ever before as well as initiatives and self-help by the family -- and by the man with the problem, himself. Healthy People 2000, under the heading "Educational and Community-based Programs" states: "Many [programs] involve various sectors and levels of society. Changes in the social and physical environment call for the involvement of social institutions, businesses, legislative and judicial bodies, the media, and other parts of the community. Because comprehensive, community-wide programs aim to draw upon and become involved in as many aspects of community life as possible, they require a high degree of cooperation and coordination between groups that are often not traditional partners: environmental citizens' groups and manufacturers, health professionals and churches, employers and hospitals. Important to the success of these partnerships are information networks and coordinating mechanisms, both of which can help streamline services and interventions." Structured programs to deal with social isolation and emotional well-being among the older adults of our society are still in their infancy. Suicide prevention among older men is merely one of the many social issues on the nation's back burners. Meanwhile, at the personal level, the natural reluctance in elderly men to even admit to their social isolation might intensify its pressure and their inner drive toward a solution, including suicide. Conversely, the elderly man who actively motivates himself and practices self-help, by seeking out opportunities for social interaction and self-expression, reduces the adverse effects of social isolation on himself. The community that creates opportunities and provides resources, and suggests methodologies to optimize a person's desire and will for such self-help, deserves to be high on the list of essential health care and social services, senior centers, retirement communities, and other networking systems. The Public Health Service's data and observations about social isolation among older adults, and the high rates of suicide among older men, are disturbing (as they should be). When the mental health system, from national level to neighborhood, realizes that the rate is indeed excessive, that it could be lowered over time by invigorated personal self-help capabilities, in addition to affordable professional services, and invests in stimulating such self-help, then we'll make progress. The worst thing the "system" can do is turn its back. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Miller Quarles and telomeres (fwd) Date: 3 Feb 1996 19:33:55 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 63 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:29:19 -0600 (CST) From: Don Ashley To: Dennis Fink Subject: Re: Miller Quarles and telomeres Dennis, From your post it would seem that you are in Houston. If you are interested in COADS or its goals, I would like to talk with you. Miller has been a tremendous inspiration for me. Just the idea that we might even remotely be able to extend life spans has made my own present moments much more fulfilling. Please call me at 713-461-5550. Don Ashley On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Dennis Fink wrote: > In a message dated 96-02-03 03:58:14 EST, J. Olshansky writes: > > > For anyone interested, I called Mr. Quarles yesterday and he was kind > >enough to return my call today. He is a delightful man, somewhere in his > >80s, with a background in the oil business. His goal is to stop or reverse > >the aging process. What he knows about stopping or decelerating the aging > >process is what he is told by the people working in the company he > originally > >funded. He does not know any details of the animal studies involved in this > >research on telomeres, so he was unable to answer my questions about > research > >design, sample sizes, or evidence to indicate that his "substance" works. > In > >fact, he is not even sure about the animal populations used -- he thought it > >was mice. His logic is straightforward -- re-introduce lost telomere length > >via genetic engineering and the replicative potential of somatic cells will > >be extended. Apparently, re-introducing extra telomere length has no impact > >on accumulated damage to mitochondrial or nuclear DNA, so only one component > >of the process of senescence would be influenced. He seems to believe that > >if they find a "cure" for aging, that the results would be suppressed by the > >government because of its imposing social implications. His current belief > >is that they have found the "cure" for aging. > > Mr. Quarles seemed quite sincere and is highly motivated to find a "cure" > >for aging because of his own advanced age. However, I was unable to get > >additional details about the science associated with his claims -- and even > >he states that he is not told everything about the nature of the research in > >his organization. We are going to exchange written material. > > > Thanks for your insight J! I talked to Miller and got a similar impression. > I am meeting with him today at a radio station prior to a program he will be > on here in Houston (KENR, 1070 AM, 1PM, Power Talk) I may end up on it also, > if I can find the place. I will be trading my e-text for some of COAD's > info. > > Sincerely, > > Dennis Fink > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.ACO.net!embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at!ppc4525 From: marc@gem.univie.ac.at (ppc4525) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Ageing Research Projects Date: 3 Feb 1996 16:57:44 GMT Organization: VUCC, Dept. Bio Computing Center Lines: 9 Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[2725] Message-ID: <4f0468$5e1@embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: mp4525.gem.univie.ac.at X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at. Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name. Hi, I'm interested in basic research on ageing at the molecular or cellular level.Thus, I would appreciate any information about research projects in this branch going on in the world. Thanks in advance. Marcus Taeuber Vienna Biocenter Austria From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing Research Projects Date: 4 Feb 1996 04:31:29 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 32 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4f0468$5e1@embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Geron Corp. in Menlo Park, California is the most advanced research facility around today. 'Geron' is a word that refers to aging. Some of us will be originating start-up capital for another research lab to be called Anti-Geron Corp. since we are 'against' aging. We regard AGE as a similar, drawn out condition like AIDS. We are all sentenced to the gallows and we would like to get probation. We would like to see public interest in doing something about AGE just like the public is growing aware of AIDS. We no longer want to keep our heads in the sand, ignoring the 'inevitability' of the demise. Miller Quarles and COADS in Houston are doing something about it. So is the University of Texas. On 3 Feb 1996, ppc4525 wrote: > Hi, > I'm interested in basic research on ageing at the molecular or cellular > level.Thus, I would appreciate any information about research projects > in this branch going on in the world. > Thanks in advance. > > Marcus Taeuber > Vienna Biocenter > Austria > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!col.hp.com!csn!ub!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!CU-DIALUP-1113.CIT.CORNELL.EDU!jrg8 From: jrg8@cornell.edu Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Chronoprandiology... Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 17:20:33 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 20 Sender: jrg8@cornell.edu (Verified) Distribution: usa Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: cu-dialup-1113.cit.cornell.edu Is anyone familiar with Galvin Greenoak's studies from which he contends that "feeding time" (I call it chronoprandiology) is relevant to longevity in that his animals fed equivalent calories showed significant differences in aging parameters with the only dietary difference being control group was ad lib. while intervention group received food only between 8-12 am. ? What is particularly interesting to me about this is the concept that so many of the calorie restriction studies were done with a "one-meal-per-day" protocol (? anyone familiar with others that spread the limited calories around?). I'm familiar with the "alternate-day feeding" protocol... but it strikes me now that it may be possible to arrive at a reasonable ("do-able") diet for humans with moderate calorie restriction (say less 20%) and modified fasting (eating only betw 8-12 am) to arrive at the benefits associated with more typical CR protocols (30-40% calories). Has anyone tried this... longterm...???....on humans..???? JRGates, DHSc Cornell Un Dept Nutr Sc From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!daily-planet.execpc.com!greatpyrenee.execpc.com!user From: cordell@execpc.com (Bruce R. Cordell) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing Research Projects Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 14:18:40 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4f0468$5e1@embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: greatpyrenee.execpc.com In article , dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) wrote: > > We regard AGE as a similar, drawn out condition like AIDS. We are all > sentenced to the gallows and we would like to get probation. We would > like to see public interest in doing something about AGE just like the > public is growing aware of AIDS. We no longer want to keep our heads in > the sand, ignoring the 'inevitability' of the demise. Hear Hear! This is the first time I've heard anyone express this fact with such clear perception. The excellent mechanisms of evolution have given rise to homo sapiens. While that is well and good,it is high time we rid ourselves of this outdated biological imperative. We have the ability to do so, and eventually we will do so (I just hope it occurs during the span of my 'natural' years). -- ________________________________________ Bruce R. Cordell, Core AD&D, Designer TSR, Inc. (414 248 3625) cordell@execpc.com; TSRCordell@aol.com http://www.execpc.com/~cordell ________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing Research Projects Date: 4 Feb 1996 10:02:48 -0800 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 35 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4f0468$5e1@embdec.bcc.univie.ac.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On February 3 Marcus Taeuber wrote: > >Hi, >I'm interested in basic research on ageing at the molecular or cellular >level.Thus, I would appreciate any information about research projects >in this branch going on in the world. >Thanks in advance. > >Marcus Taeuber >Vienna Biocenter >Austria > > In Russia we have Research project on determinants of human longevity in the Center for Longevity Research at Moscow State University. Perhaps you have already heard about our finding that human longevity genes are located in X chromosome. These results were presented at III European Congress of Gerontology, Amsterdam and were discussed at scientific meetings in the UK (Professor Shall), France (Dr.Schaechter), Belgium (Professor Lints) and many other places. We can give a seminar in your Biocenter on this topic too if you are interested. Our most recent interest is centenarian studies including genealogy of centenarians and collecting blood and DNA samples for identification of determinants of human longevity. We are most interested in scientific collaboration in this area. Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. Director, Center for Longevity Research A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!ns1.win.net!bio!drdean Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Message-ID: <71@bio.win.net> References: <9601102031.AA17358@udl.es><4d49r2$4kc@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca> Reply-To: drdean@bio.win.net (Ward Dean, M.D.) From: drdean@bio.win.net (Ward Dean, M.D.) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 23:15:18 GMT Subject: Re: Physiology of aging bibliography Lines: 39 In article <4d49r2$4kc@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca>, Charles Carter (ccarter2@mustang.uwo.ca) writes: >sorribas@udl.es ("Albert Sorribas") wrote: >>Is there any book on Physiology on aging. I'd need not an ageing >>theories compendium, but a book describing which physiological >>changes happen with ageing. >> > >Hi Manel, > > I have the ultimate book for you: "Practical Handbook of Human >Biologic Age Determination" Edited by Arthur K. Balin, M.D. PhD. >F.A.C.P. CRC Press Inc. 1994. It goes through all of the molecular and >organic physiological changes that take place as one ages. I was pretty >excited about it when I first saw it. It's a great big 10 pound book so >it MUST be good! Apparently it was written to give the gerontologist >some physical benchmarks to assess rates of aging etc. > >-Chuck > > > In addition to Balin's book, as well as my own *Biological Aging Measurement--Clinical Applications* (upon which the Balin book was based), I strongly recommend *Physical Dimensions of Aging*, by Waneen W. Spirduso, published by Human Kinetics, 1607 North Market Street, Champaign, IL 61825-5076, a bargain at $54.00. While the other two books primarily focus on the measurement of biological age (*Biological Age Determination* is a theoretical, multi-authored text, and *Biological Aging Measurement* is a single-authored practical manual), and therefore largely focus on biomarkers used in the aging measurement systems reviewed, *Physical Dimensions of Aging* is an exhaustive, well-written compendium--system-by-system--of what goes up and what goes down with aging. A great reference. Ward Dean, M.D. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 03 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: How we are aged? Date: 4 Feb 1996 03:47:17 -0800 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 34 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4ev94j$e2u@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On February 3 Mr.Hang-Jun Jang wrote: > >I am very interested in the aging mechanism. >According to Hayflick's theory, the definite capacity of proliferation of >the somatic cells may be the cause of aging. >Is there anybody who explain it to me? > First of all, the true author of this theory is famous German biologist August Weismann who has published a lot on this topic in 1882-1892 a century before Dr.Hayflick ! Experimental evidence for limited capacity of cell cultures for proliferation was provided by another American scientist Dr.H.Earle Swim in 1957-1959, also before Dr.Hayflick. For this reason the whole concept could be called Weismann-Swim-Hayflick (W-S-H) concept. Critical review of this concept could be found in our debates with Dr.Hayflick published by BioEssays, 1994, vol.16, p.591-594, and also in our book "The Biology of Life Span: A Quantitative Approach", Harwood Academic Publishers, NY, 1991 where this W-S-H concept is critically discussed in great detail. Sincerely yours, Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. Director, Center for Longevity Research A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 04 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!LAMBDA.GENE.CINVESTAV.MX!carlos From: carlos@LAMBDA.GENE.CINVESTAV.MX (Carlos Hoyo) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: subscirbe Date: 5 Feb 1996 09:30:50 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 13 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net subscribe ageing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Carlos Hoyo Vadillo Cinvestav, IPN Profesor Titular Apto. 14740 Dpto Genetica y Biol Mol 07000 Ciudad de Mexico Tel:+52-5-747-7000 ext 5364 Av. IPN 2508 Fax: 747-7100 07300 Ciudad de Mexico email: carlos@gene.cinvestav.mx MEXICO url: http://www.gene.cinvestav.mx/Depto/carlosh.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 04 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Parental Age and Offspring Longevity Date: 5 Feb 1996 11:31:12 -0800 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 21 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear Colleagues, Recently we have received an invitation from one international scientific peer-reviewed journal to write a paper: PARENTAL AGE AT REPRODUCTION AND OFFSPRING LONGEVITY Since we are most interested to discuss ALL previous papers on the same subject in addition to our original results, we kindly ask all the scientists to inform us about their publications on this topic. Thank you in advance, Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. Director, Center for Longevity Research A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 04 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!Inter.NL.net!usenet From: H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: 5 Feb 1996 21:08:32 GMT Organization: Inter.NL.net, The Internet Provider in The Netherlands. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4f5rkg$pfh@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: solair1.inter.nl.net Good to have you back Jo (anne?) I wonder if you could let us have a peek at the mice again ? I liked the sensible book, including the hints to lift your own melatonin levels on a natural way. I've now seen claims that ALC's life extension properties are simply an effect of ALC 's melatonin inducing capacities. Are there any substances that one should not combine with melatonin ? (alcohol, painkillers, etc.) An explanation for the smart behaviour of the melatonin mice could be that learning simply didn't stop. Normally learning stops after 1/4th of life, maybe this stop is induced by a fysical mechanism (oxidation) that is slowed by Melatonin ? Cheers, Harrie From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa!cpatil From: cpatil@itsa.ucsf.edu (Chris Patil) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: 6 Feb 1996 17:47:56 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Computing Facility Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4f848c$q1i@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu There is a thoughtful and thorough review about the effects of melatonin in a recent issue of Cell -- I believe it was published either in late December or early January. The author is David Weaver. It's not good news. Weaver, one of the pre-eminent researchers of melatonin biochemistry, points out serious flaws in the studies of Pierpaoli and co-workers. For example, the mouse used in the pineal transplant studies were of a strain which is defective in melatonin production -- so any life extension seen in those studies could not have been due to melatonin. Additionally, the drinking-water supplementation experiment only observed life extension in one mouse strain; in another, increased mortality due to reproductive tract cancer was observed in the experimental group. With all the hype on melatonin in the media, I think it's important to know where the facts stand. The review is short, well-argued, and accessible to the lay person. I recommend reading it. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato!waikato.ac.nz!hawthorn From: hawthorn@waikato.ac.nz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Chronoprandiology... Message-ID: <1996Feb7.102743.42210@waikato.ac.nz> Date: 7 Feb 96 10:27:43 +1300 References: Distribution: usa Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand Lines: 29 In article , jrg8@cornell.edu writes: > > > Is anyone familiar with Galvin Greenoak's studies from which he > contends that "feeding time" (I call it chronoprandiology) is relevant to > longevity in that his animals fed equivalent calories showed significant > differences in aging parameters with the only dietary difference being > control group was ad lib. while intervention group received food only > between 8-12 am. ? What is particularly interesting to me about this > is the concept that so many of the calorie restriction studies were > done with a "one-meal-per-day" protocol (? anyone familiar with > others that spread the limited calories around?). I'm familiar with > the "alternate-day feeding" protocol... but it strikes me now that > it may be possible to arrive at a reasonable ("do-able") diet for > humans with moderate calorie restriction (say less 20%) and modified > fasting (eating only betw 8-12 am) to arrive at the benefits associated > with more typical CR protocols (30-40% calories). Has anyone tried this... > longterm...???....on humans..???? Yes there are some humans attempting precisely this. Check out the CR-society mailing list. However it is more doable to restrict eating to the evening meal. One can even justify this by noting that the rodents are nocturnal creatures, so that their morning meal comes at the end of their active period. On a more practical level, it is simple enough for most people to skip breakfast and either skip or have a very light lunch. But it is hard to have a morning meal (which awakens the appetite) and then go for the rest of the day without eating. Ian H From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Running with your thoughts on immortalism (fwd) Date: 6 Feb 1996 04:01:25 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 29 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:21:02 CST From: Michael C. Kearl To: dashley@tenet.edu Subject: Running with your thoughts on immortalism Hi Don. Your posted comments to SSREL-L regarding immortalism caught my eye. If you have a chance, swing by to the following address and go to "You Never Have to Die!" section. Am engaged in some research that you may find of interest. http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/death.html Peace. Michael C. Kearl Professor of Sociology Department of Sociology & Anthropology Trinity University San Antonio, TX 78212 phone: (210) 736-8561 fax: (210) 736-8509 e-mail: mkearl@trinity.edu homepage: http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/index.html From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!xpat.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Why should we age? Date: 6 Feb 1996 03:44:25 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 64 Message-ID: <4f6iqp$9fu@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi! Dear friends interested in aging research all around the world. I am very happy to introduce myself to you and exchange ideas here. I am a ambitious medical student in Korea. I have recently passed medical licensing exam, now looking forward to graduation this month. I have been very interested in aging mechanism since when I was a freshman. Now I decided to dedicate my whole life to the research into elucidating aging mechanism so as to prevent age related disorder and ultimately stop the aging process for the eternal youth. I think there is a great meaning in aging itself. In my opinion, the research into the aging mechanism can open our eyes not only to geriatric aspect, but also the meaning of life, for example what life style is correct, and how we should live, and so forth. I hope that gerontology can give human beings illumination. The above is the reason why I get myself absorbed in aging research. From now on, I will give you my some ideas on aging process. I postulated that aging should occur for the next generation This simple idea arose from a observation that in almost all cases, fecundity itself means a short life in Nature. I think, therefore, that aging process is closely related to the reproductive function. So to speak, the much living creatures reproduce, the shorter their life span is. In this sense, aging process seems to have an inverse proportion with reproduction. I believe in central pacemaker theory on aging which means the existence of master clock somewhere around human body to control aging rate. This biological clock must be a neuroendocrine system in order to influence all cells in the body by means of hormones. If my viewpoint is correct, reproductive system must interact with this pacemaker also by means of hormones. So, 4 years ago when I was in first grade of medical school, I postulated my own hypothesis on the control of sperm production rate, that is, "the pinealo-hypothalamic-pituitary gonadal axis" In this axis, the hormone melatonin and inhibin play a major role in regulating the reproductive function and ultimately aging rate as well. This hypothesis somewhat sounds like the "disposable soma theory" You know that melatonin works against gonadal action because it inhibits LH response to GnRH. As I stated earlier, if aging process should occur for reproduction, it is probable that a certain hormone to inhibit reproductive function can retard aging process. By the way, I learned the hormone melatonin accidentally in physiology text book 4 years ago. For an instant, I got a inspiration that melatonin was a anti-aging hormone. I ran into the medical library without delay to search for the papers on melatonin through medline CD-ROM. For my first time, I got in contact with papers from Dr. Pierpaoli on anti-aging effect of melatonin. Can you imagine how I was excited then? From that time, I have collected and followed up the papers on melatonin and other articles on aging process. I am looking forward to people coming up who are kind enough to give me a information and comment about the correlation between aging and reproductive function. Thank you for reading this, May God bless you! From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Why should we age? Date: 6 Feb 1996 03:38:26 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 58 Message-ID: <4f6ifi$8ph@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi! Dear friends interested in aging research all around the world. I am very happy to introduce myself to you and exchange ideas here. I am a ambitious medical student in Korea. I have recently passed medical licensing exam, now looking forward to graduation this month. I have been very interested in aging mechanism since when I was a freshman. Now I decided to dedicate my whole life to the research into elucidating aging mechanism in order to prevent age related disorder and ultimately stop the aging process for the eternal youth. I think there are great meanings in aging phenomenon itself. In my opinion, the research can open our eyes not only to geriatric aspects, but also the meaning of life, for example, what life style is correct, and how we should live, and so forth. I hope that gerontology can give human beings illumination. The above is the reason why I get myself absorbed in aging research. From now on, I will give you my one idea on aging process. I postulated that aging should occur for the next generation. This simple idea arose from a observation that in most cases, as far as I know, fecundity itself means a short life in the Nature. I think,therefore, that aging process is closely related to the reproductive function. So to speak, the much living creatures reproduce, the shorter their life span is. In this sense, aging process seems to have an inverse proportion with reproduction. I believe in central pacemaker theory on aging which means the existence of master clock somewhere around the human body to control the aging rate. This biological clock must be a neuroendocrine system in order to influence all cells in the body by means of some hormones. If my viewpoint is correct, the reproductive system must interact with this aging pacemaker by means of some hormones. So, 4 years ago when I was in first grade of medical school, I postulated my own hypothesis on the control of sperm production rate, that is "the pinealo-hypothalamic-pituitary gonadal axis". In this axis, the hormone melatonin and inhibin play a major role in regulating the reproductive function and ultimately aging rate as well. This hypothesis somewhat sounds like the "disposable soma theory". You know that the pineal hormone "melatonin" works against gonadal action because it inhibits LH response to GnRH, although it works inversely some species. As I stated earlier, if aging process should occur for the reproduction, it is probable that a certain hormone to inhibit reproductive function can retard aging process. By the way, I got to know the hormone melatonin accidentally in physiology textbook 4 years ago. For the instant, I got a inspiration that melatonin might be a anti-aging hormone. I ran into the medical library without delay to search for the papaers on melatonin through medline CD-ROM. For the first time, I got in contact with papers written by Dr. Pierpaoli and his colleagues on anti-aging effect of melatonin. Can you imagine how I was excited then? From that time, I have collected and followed up the papers on melatonin and other articles on aging process. I am looking forward to people coming up who are very kind enough to give me a information and comment about the correlation between aging and reproductive function. Thank you. May God bless you~! From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon Feb 05 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Quarles Gets Publicity Date: 6 Feb 1996 07:59:51 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 66 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <960205093959_414867868@mail04.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Miller Quarles is a brilliant man who gets the publicity he deserves. He has received international publicity in the fields of geology, physical fitness, and gerontology. Mr. Quarles has the ability to produce or discover elements that no other person could do. He was appropriately recognized for this, both with media publicity and also financial reward and above all, personal satisfaction. *How many scientists have spent their lifetime seeking the fame that comes with discoveries and found themselves lucky enough to get published in a small technical journal? Miller enlightened the world's oil industry with his discoveries. He inspires the elderly community with his physical accomplishments and fitness at the age of 80+. His $50,000 seed investment in anti-aging research resulted in a $70 million corporation. *How many of us can match such success? Miller Quarles is intoxicated with life. He is fulfilled, self actualized, successful in professional and personal life and sees no reason to abandon a good thing because 'flat-world' pessimists say aging can't be arrested. Miller's quest for publicity is not a personal gratification or ego trip, but an attempt to get people involved in the activity of encouraging and supporting anti-aging research. Quarles' promotion of a possible cure for old age gives people hope. His attitude combats the defeatist attitude that 'since we are all going to die in a few years, why take care of our bodies anyway?' With hope for an extra 100 years, people can get new motivation to live safe, healthy, coping lifestyles because they just might get to keep their bodies a lot longer than they are conditioned to believe. Miller Quarles is not a snake-oil salesman with fictional money-making schemes. He is a realist who chooses to believe that the end is not in sight. Actually, it is liberating, to think that we may get an extra hundred years. We begin to value our own lives more and respect others' lives. Just the notion of such extension can make each present moment much more alive today. Don Ashley, Houston On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, S. Jay Olshansky SOlshansky wrote: > >Subject: Re: Quarles article > > > >Deck and other readers: > > First, thanks for taking the time to type in the article on Mr. Quarles. > > I certainly appreciated it. > > Mr. Quarles is a delightful man who is sincere in his belief that he has > >come upon a cure for aging. I do not want to detract from his enthusiasm > for > >aging research because I share it. However, snip... From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Quarles Gets Publicity Date: 7 Feb 1996 00:56:44 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4f8tcc$dc9@nis.dacom.co.kr> References: <960205093959_414867868@mail04.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: dashley@TENET.EDU Thank you for your valuable and interesting information about Mr.Quarles. I totally agree to your viewpoint about aging. I want to know more about what he is going to do, what kind of company he made for anti-aging therapy, and what COADS is. I think him really wonderful when considering his age! Personelly, I hope that there are many people like Mr.Quarles. In previous letters, Mr.Quarles was told that he asserted that goverment covered that fact that aging can be cured. That's true? His idea to re-extend the elderly's short telomere by genetic engineering sounds interesting and plaucible. Would you please let me know more about Mr's Quarles'organization and I heard that there was a company named Geron corp. in Califonia, if you know it, please tell me about it. Your sincerely, Hang-Jun Jang From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Quarles Gets Publicity Date: 7 Feb 1996 00:57:23 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4f8tdj$dc9@nis.dacom.co.kr> References: <960205093959_414867868@mail04.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: dashley@TENET.EDU Thank you for your valuable and interesting information about Mr.Quarles. I totally agree to your viewpoint about aging. I want to know more about what he is going to do, what kind of company he made for anti-aging therapy, and what COADS is. I think him really wonderful when considering his age! Personelly, I hope that there are many people like Mr.Quarles. In previous letters, Mr.Quarles was told that he asserted that goverment covered that fact that aging can be cured. That's true? His idea to re-extend the elderly's short telomere by genetic engineering sounds interesting and plaucible. Would you please let me know more about Mr's Quarles'organization and I heard that there was a company named Geron corp. in Califonia, if you know it, please tell me about it. Your sincerely, Hang-Jun Jang From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Quarles Gets Publicity Date: 7 Feb 1996 00:59:36 GMT Organization: Medical School, Hang-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4f8tho$dhm@nis.dacom.co.kr> References: <960205093959_414867868@mail04.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Thank you for your valuable and interesting information about Mr.Quarles. I totally agree to your viewpoint about aging. I want to know more about what he is going to do, what kind of company he made for anti-aging therapy, and what COADS is. I think him really wonderful when considering his age! Personelly, I hope that there are many people like Mr.Quarles. In previous letters, Mr.Quarles was told that he asserted that goverment covered that fact that aging can be cured. That's true? His idea to re-extend the elderly's short telomere by genetic engineering sounds interesting and plaucible. Would you please let me know more about Mr's Quarles'organization and I heard that there was a company named Geron corp. in Califonia, if you know it, please tell me about it. Your sincerely, Hang-Jun Jang From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Physiology of aging bibliography Date: 7 Feb 1996 00:04:06 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 47 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <71@bio.win.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Suggest you contact Dennis Fink at the address above for the latest research....Don On Sat, 3 Feb 1996 drdean@bio.win.net wrote: > > In article <4d49r2$4kc@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca>, Charles Carter (ccarter2@mustang.uwo.ca) writes: > >sorribas@udl.es ("Albert Sorribas") wrote: > >>Is there any book on Physiology on aging. I'd need not an ageing > >>theories compendium, but a book describing which physiological > >>changes happen with ageing. > >> > > > >Hi Manel, > > > > I have the ultimate book for you: "Practical Handbook of Human > >Biologic Age Determination" Edited by Arthur K. Balin, M.D. PhD. > >F.A.C.P. CRC Press Inc. 1994. It goes through all of the molecular and > >organic physiological changes that take place as one ages. I was pretty > >excited about it when I first saw it. It's a great big 10 pound book so > >it MUST be good! Apparently it was written to give the gerontologist > >some physical benchmarks to assess rates of aging etc. > > > >-Chuck > > > > > > > In addition to Balin's book, as well as my own *Biological > Aging Measurement--Clinical Applications* (upon which the > Balin book was based), I strongly recommend *Physical > Dimensions of Aging*, by Waneen W. Spirduso, published by > Human Kinetics, 1607 North Market Street, Champaign, IL > 61825-5076, a bargain at $54.00. While the other two books > primarily focus on the measurement of biological age > (*Biological Age Determination* is a theoretical, > multi-authored text, and *Biological Aging Measurement* is > a single-authored practical manual), and therefore largely > focus on biomarkers used in the aging measurement systems > reviewed, *Physical Dimensions of Aging* is an exhaustive, > well-written compendium--system-by-system--of what goes up > and what goes down with aging. A great reference. > > Ward Dean, M.D. > > > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!daily-planet.execpc.com!metis.execpc.com!user From: cordell@execpc.com (Bruce R. Cordell) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Quarles Gets Publicity Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 12:58:43 -0500 Organization: TSR, Inc. Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <960205093959_414867868@mail04.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: metis.execpc.com In article , dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) wrote: > His $50,000 seed investment in anti-aging research resulted in a $70 million > corporation. > Don Ashley, Houston Does this corporation have a public web-site? Thanks! -- ________________________________________ Bruce R. Cordell, Core AD&D, Designer TSR, Inc. (414 248 3625) cordell@execpc.com; TSRCordell@aol.com http://www.execpc.com/~cordell ________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!oslonett.no!sn.no!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: valentino@peg.it (valentino) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Melatonin & Dr. Pierpaoli Date: 6 Feb 1996 21:36:02 GMT Organization: pegaso Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4f8hk2$1b6c@venere.inet.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.20.207.101 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Greetings, someone in this area mentioned the melatonin dose for anti ageing... I've asked it to Dr. Pierpaoli by mail, and he replied me to use 5 mg. of melatonin 2 seasons per year, every night 40 minutes before sleep. It was the dose for a 50 y.o. man. If anyone knows any tratment to add to melatonin, please e-mail me.... From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Ageing Research Projects Date: 7 Feb 1996 00:35:35 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 37 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dr. Faragher, Forwarded your msg. Not sure it passed.....Don On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, faragher wrote: > > > On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Don Ashley wrote: > > > Geron Corp. in Menlo Park, California is the most advanced research facility > > around today. > > > > > > On 3 Feb 1996, ppc4525 wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I'm interested in basic research on ageing at the molecular or cellular > > > level.Thus, I would appreciate any information about research projects > > > in this branch going on in the world. > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Marcus Taeuber > > > Vienna Biocenter > > > Austria > Dear Don. Here at the Ocular Research group in Brighton UK and at the > cell and molecular biology lab Unibversity of sussex we do a lot of cell > senescence work. Can you pass this on to Marcus Taeuber? I have problems > using this list which is why I don't reply frequently.> > > > > > > Please keep us posted about your attempts to organise seed money for > ageing. We have access to effectively all the gerontologists working in > the Uk and we span quite a number of fields. We would be happy to help. > > Richard Faragher Ph.D. > UoB. > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Why should we age? Date: 6 Feb 1996 22:23:37 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 10 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4f6ifi$8ph@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On 6 Feb 1996, Hang-Jun Jang wrote: > Hi! Dear friends interested in aging research all around the world. snip....> Suggest you contact Dennis Fink on the Longevity list for the most recent research in this field....Don Ashley, Houston. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue Feb 06 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!kmldorf From: kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: 7 Feb 1996 06:44:11 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4f9hnr$d9j@news.utdallas.edu> References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> <4f848c$q1i@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: laplace.utdallas.edu NNTP-Posting-User: kmldorf X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Chris Patil (cpatil@itsa.ucsf.edu) wrote: : There is a thoughtful and thorough review about the effects of melatonin : in a recent issue of Cell -- I believe it was published either in late : December or early January. The author is David Weaver. Could you or someone else please supply the complete reference? From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Feb 07 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!jor From: jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: 8 Feb 1996 00:23:56 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 60 Message-ID: <4fbfqs$eab@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> <4f5rkg$pfh@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: julie.teleport.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: : Good to have you back Jo (anne?) ** Thanks! (It's Just Plain Jo) : I wonder if you could let us have a peek at the mice again ? : I liked the sensible book, including the hints to : lift your own melatonin levels on a natural way. : I've now seen claims that ALC's life extension properties : are simply an effect of ALC 's melatonin inducing capacities. ** A local news channel just took about 15 minutes of broadcast quality video of the mice -- the mice performed admirably. In every instance, the melatonin mice were ahead of the others. I've asked for a copy of the tape, and if I get one, I'd be happy to copy the tape for others at my cost. : Are there any substances that one should not combine with : melatonin ? (alcohol, painkillers, etc.) ** No research has been done about combining melatonin with any other substance in humans, except for benzodiazepines. (sleeping pills) Combining mel with standard sleeping pills resulted in a more natural sleep. (I.E., a more normal sleep architecture.) As for combining melatonin with alcohol, I must admit I've done it a time or two -- only at night. I noticed no additive effect. I actually like to think that the melatonin is helping protect my liver from alcohol- generated free radical damage. Reiter, my coauthor, has shown that melatonin can prevent alcohol-induced ulcers in the rat stomach -- presumably by scavanging free radicals. In that melatonin has an analgesic effect, I would guess that it would have an additive effect with painkillers. Since some painkillers have been shown to reduce melatonin production (NSAIDS, for example), then taking melatonin would help offset that undesirable side effect. But I must caution that no research has been done in this area. : An explanation for the smart behaviour of the melatonin mice could : be that learning simply didn't stop. Normally learning stops after : 1/4th of life, maybe this stop is induced by a fysical mechanism : (oxidation) that is slowed by Melatonin ? ** I think that's a real possibility. ONe of the reasons I'm doing this pilot study is that I want to test the intelligence and learning behavior of the mice. I had no idea that a behavioral/cognitive difference would be obvious. My theory is the same as yours -- melatonin is having a neuro- protective effect, delaying the age-related erosion of brain cells. But the mice also seem a bit more aggressive, so I'm wondering about the effect melatonin is having on estrogen or testosterone production. (In male rats, chronic administrationof melatonin has been shown to prevent the age-related decline in T.) [NeuroReport 1995 6:785-88.] : Cheers, ** And cheers to you! Jo -- +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Jo Robinson jor@teleport.com Co-author, with Russel J. Reiter- MELATONIN: Your Body's Natural Wonder Drug For a melatonin FAQ, go to: http://www.teleport.com/~jor (Note: I have no financial connection with any melatonin supplier.) +-----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Feb 07 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!newshost.vu.nl!cs.vu.nl!sun4nl!Inter.NL.net!usenet From: H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 7 Feb 1996 20:43:34 GMT Organization: Inter.NL.net, The Internet Provider in The Netherlands. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: solair1.inter.nl.net Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2458 sci.life-extension:10274 Hi all, The oldest cat (yes, cat) of my part of Holland is a cat that was wounded when little, so that it could barely walk. It's now 23 and still going strong. Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. So I think it's reasonable to assume that sports progresses the aging process. Probably even a lot of "lean muscle tissue" does the same (consuming more oxygen). But to confuse us, sports in first instant results in youthy appearance, more power and stamina. Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after but worse years after...) Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact that women live longer ? Yes, I know about the finish study of ski-sportsmen. But they were compared to their collegue sports, not a control group of couch potatoes. And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? Cheers ! Harrie From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed Feb 07 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: harlan2@ix.netcom.com(Harlan Hoffman ) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 8 Feb 1996 19:46:50 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 51 Message-ID: <4fdjva$o24@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca10-04.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Feb 08 11:46:50 AM PST 1996 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2459 sci.life-extension:10283 Harri; What is life extension without health? hell! Is it better to live longer, no matter how much the pain, suffering, and dullness of mind caused by medication,? I think we each have to ask ourselves what we want, asnd then maybe try to go that way. I prefer the 'high' of running the joy of physical health, in return I'll give up some years. In <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net writes: > >Hi all, > >The oldest cat (yes, cat) of my part of Holland is a cat that >was wounded when little, so that it could barely walk. >It's now 23 and still going strong. > >Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. > >In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers >lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. > >So I think it's reasonable to assume that sports progresses the >aging process. Probably even a lot of "lean muscle tissue" >does the same (consuming more oxygen). > >But to confuse us, sports in first instant results in youthy >appearance, more power and stamina. > >Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after >but worse years after...) > >Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact >that women live longer ? > >Yes, I know about the finish study of ski-sportsmen. But they were >compared to their collegue sports, not a control group of couch >potatoes. > >And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give >the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? > > >Cheers ! > > >Harrie -- "It has been said that immortality...is a “grand peut-ętre”. Everybody is persuaded that he is immortal." From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!gw1.att.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!lenti.med.umn.edu!selby From: selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med-Hem)) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Followup-To: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Date: 9 Feb 1996 14:44:03 GMT Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 42 Message-ID: <4ffmjj$mdo@epx.cis.umn.edu> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lenti.med.umn.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2464 sci.life-extension:10296 H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: [lots of false conjecture deleted] : So I think it's reasonable to assume that sports progresses the : aging process. Probably even a lot of "lean muscle tissue" : does the same (consuming more oxygen). : Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact : that women live longer ? : Yes, I know about the finish study of ski-sportsmen. But they were : compared to their collegue sports, not a control group of couch : potatoes. : And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give : the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? You have ignored numerous human studies where sedentary lifestyles coincide with increased risk for heart disease, stroke, etc. etc. and a study done on rowers in the late 70's that showed that these athletes (many of whom continued their sport after college) outlived there classmates by 10-12 years. This physiobabble is the same thing sighted by trash newspapers every so often about the deleterious effects of exercise. What you fail to recognize is that in evolutionary terms, our vigorous types are probably very sedentary compared to the gathering/hunting lifestyle of prehistoric peoples. Drawing parallels between fruit flys and human behaviour is ludicrous. Paralysis in humans (the ultimate in non-activity) results in a decrease in life-span of 5-20 years depending on the extend of injury. While this is complicated by the other health issues involved in spinal cord injury, the 200% figure you sight in fruit flies should outweigh the deleterious effects of spinal cord injury. While my reasoning in this argument is ridiculous, at best, it shows the danger of taking wildly disperate species studies and drawing conclusions about supposed health benefits or deleterious effects. I'll continue my fitness and diet regimes, and you just lay around the house. I promise to come to your funeral and NOT say, "I told you so!" From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: harlan2@ix.netcom.com(Harlan Hoffman ) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 9 Feb 1996 15:30:51 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 55 Message-ID: <4ffpbb$ra2@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> <4felah$5fc@merlin.delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca10-02.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Feb 09 7:30:51 AM PST 1996 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2465 sci.life-extension:10301 In <4felah$5fc@merlin.delphi.com> LOU PAGNUCCO writes: > >H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: >>Hi all, >> >> ''' >> >>Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. >> >>In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers >>lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. >> >> ... >> >>Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after >>but worse years after...) >> >>Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact >>that women live longer ? >> >> ... >> >>And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give >>the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? >> >I have also read a study on the longevity of olympic marathoners. >They seemed to have a lower mortality up to the ages of 55-60. >After that, they died off at a significantly higher rate than >sedentary counterparts. > >A study has also been done on the life expectancy of U.S. professional >football players. They have amazingly short life spans. On average, >they only live to their mid-50's. > >Still, I want to believe moderate exercise is beneficial. > >Regards, >Lou Pagnucco > I tend to believe that these two groups may not be a good criteria...Kenneth Cooper addressess this stuff in terms of 'free radicals' and is a very powerful voice for the use of anti-oxidants in conjunction with moderate aerobic excercise. In my own mind, I would never cease running, because I know for certain, thast had I not become a runner and changed my life style, and physical health, I would have been dead by now. So, I use Pyncogenol, ginsana, kh3, vit E, C, A, and other anti-oxidants several times a day. Thanks Harlan -- "It has been said that immortality...is a “grand peut-ętre”. Everybody is persuaded that he is immortal." From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Resistance To Immortality Concepts Date: 9 Feb 1996 05:30:43 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 76 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <199602062017.JAA07350@host02.net.voyager.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Deck Hazen wrote: > Why be immortal? > > I've been cruising the Longevity group's correspondence for a couple of > weeks now, and gone over a few of the back issues, and it strikes me that > everyone takes for granted the assumption that all people what to live forever. > > It's probably true, but I'd be interested to find out why. Deck, I'd be happy to send you a catalog of why many people resist the idea of 'immortality'. The excuses range from irrational to realistic. From having presented the idea of 'arresting the aging process' on the speaker's platform to diverse groups of people and spraying the concepts around various internet groups, I found it constructive to list catagories of excuses. The best way to constructively deal with resistance is to listen and try to understand the rationale for such aversion. A few of the most popular resistance issues include: fears of population crowding missing loved ones that don't stay notions that social security will be drained don't mess with God's plan taxpayer-supported convalescent centers will drain the budget old people are too slow, not fun old people need to die to make way for youth who wants to see 150 year old skin in the mirror? can't have kids anymore, others will develop bigger families would you go want to have sex with a 130 year-old? don't get my hopes up, only to get let down too far-fetched to give it mental energy snake-oil salesmen are promoting it to make $ embarrased to talk about it with my friends the enemy or other countries might get it first others might make money on it having too much fun now don't have time for it other scientists might get the glory, not me others have died, so should we death is a relief from all today's problems can't tolerate another 150 years w/ same spouse, job, car, house who wants to spend 150 years hooked up in the hospital bed? in 200 years average IQ will be 300, they will keep us around for pets looking forward to meeting God in person looking fwd to being reincarnated into something more exciting looking fwd to being w/ others gone by looking fwd to infinite intelligence and answers to all q's martyrdom Saddam may spend $15 billion of his $30 bil on it first don't toy around w genetics; who wants ears growing out their neck? the list goes on... We are developing an essay contest for best commentary on the above catagories of resistance. Will have awards for most constructive, original, optimistic, pessimistic, rediculous/humorous. Would also welcome other excuses or resistance factors. Every excuse is a barrier to progress and delays public support for research. Every excuse must be acknowledged as being real and legitimate for the presenter. We encourage people to verbalize their aversions because when they stay submerged, people act out by being sarcastic and destructive to the progress. Care to participate? Don Ashley, Houston From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ilr.rc.ac.ru!ageing From: ageing@ilr.rc.ac.ru ("Leonid A.Gavrilov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Funds for Longevity Research Date: 9 Feb 1996 04:31:36 -0800 Organization: A.N.Belozersky Institute Lines: 27 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear Colleagues, It is possible to receive funding for joint American-Russian scientific projects (on determinants of mortality and longevity) between my Center for Longevity Research at A.N.Belozersky Institute, Moscow State University and U.S. scientific institution. The level of funding may vary according to the needs of the projects within a range $10,000 to $80,000 over a two-year period; the average anticipated funding level is $40,000 ($20,000 per year for two years). Additional information about our research activities and interests is available at: http://alpha.genebee.msu.su/au/gavrilov-la/ American scientists interested in collaboration are kindly invited to contact us for this purpose. Dr.Leonid A.Gavrilov, Ph.D. Director, Center for Longevity Research A.N.Belozersky Institute Moscow State University From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!usenet From: LOU PAGNUCCO Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 9 Feb 1996 05:16:01 GMT Organization: MCI/News Corp. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4felah$5fc@merlin.delphi.com> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr1-dialup39.southfield.mci.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22D (Windows; U; 16bit) Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2460 sci.life-extension:10292 H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: >Hi all, > > ''' > >Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. > >In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers >lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. > > ... > >Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after >but worse years after...) > >Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact >that women live longer ? > > ... > >And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give >the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? > I have also read a study on the longevity of olympic marathoners. They seemed to have a lower mortality up to the ages of 55-60. After that, they died off at a significantly higher rate than sedentary counterparts. A study has also been done on the life expectancy of U.S. professional football players. They have amazingly short life spans. On average, they only live to their mid-50's. Still, I want to believe moderate exercise is beneficial. Regards, Lou Pagnucco From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu Feb 08 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk From: John de Rivaz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:07:20 +0100 Organization: Myorganisation Lines: 81 Message-ID: <856459486wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> Reply-To: John@longevb.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: longevb.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!longevb.demon.co.uk Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2463 sci.life-extension:10295 I had wondered about this. After all, if you "exercise" a car you wear it out. Exercise with animals obviously has two factors: 1. It programs muscle building and other beneficial effects 2. It wears out mechanical parts In young people 1 outweighs 2. I suggest as a useful line of research for biochemists that they find out the mechanism by which exercise builds muscle and other improving factors, and find a nutritional way of replicating this with no side effects. After all, excercise must by itself be damaging, that is clear. But the body rteceives the information that this damage is taking place and corrects it, indeed overcorrects it in some aspects by strengthening muscle and bone. The actual strengthening of muscle and bone are chemical not mechanical processes, and they are initiated by the *information* that excercise is taking place. If we can fool the body into beleiving that excercise is taking place when it isn't, then we have the benefits without the mechanical wear. Of course people will still take excercise beacue they like what they are doing, eg sports and recreations, but the won't waste their time jumping on the spot etc (and wearing out their joints) just to tone themselves up for their sports. In article: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net writes: > > Hi all, > > The oldest cat (yes, cat) of my part of Holland is a cat that > was wounded when little, so that it could barely walk. > It's now 23 and still going strong. > > Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. > > In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers > lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. > > So I think it's reasonable to assume that sports progresses the > aging process. Probably even a lot of "lean muscle tissue" > does the same (consuming more oxygen). > > But to confuse us, sports in first instant results in youthy > appearance, more power and stamina. > > Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after > but worse years after...) > > Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact > that women live longer ? > > Yes, I know about the finish study of ski-sportsmen. But they were > compared to their collegue sports, not a control group of couch > potatoes. > > And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give > the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? > > > Cheers ! > > > Harrie > > -- Sincerely, **************************************** * Publisher of Longevity Report * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * details on request * **************************************** In the information age, sharing can increase world wealth enormously, because giving information does not decrease your information. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JohndeR Fast loading, very few slow pictures From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 09 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rs8d+ From: "Robert M. Stowe" Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:22:03 -0500 Organization: Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> <4f848c$q1i@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <4f9hnr$d9j@news.utdallas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: po8.andrew.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <4f9hnr$d9j@news.utdallas.edu> Excerpts from netnews.bionet.molbio.ageing: 7-Feb-96 Re: Melatonin update by George Kimeldorf@utdalla > Chris Patil (cpatil@itsa.ucsf.edu) wrote: > : There is a thoughtful and thorough review about the effects of melatonin > : in a recent issue of Cell -- I believe it was published either in late > : December or early January. The author is David Weaver. > > Could you or someone else please supply the complete reference? I commend this article to readers of this newsgroup that are interested in a sobering discussion of information about melatonin based on methodically rigorous scientific research, as opposed to some of the unbridled speculation, pseudoscience, and wishful thinking being promulgated by some individuals on this newsgroup. The reference is: Reppert, Steven M., & Weaver, David R. Melatonin madness. Cell 83: 1059-1062 (December 29, 1995 issue). From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 09 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: keving@primenet.com (Kevin Goldstein) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 9 Feb 1996 02:45:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 60 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4ff52t$ada@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> <4felah$5fc@merlin.delphi.com> X-Posted-By: kg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2467 sci.life-extension:10316 LOU PAGNUCCO wrote: >H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: >>Hi all, >> >> ''' >> >>Racing horces life years shorter than recreation horses. >> >>In an experiment where flies were not allowed to fly theze non-fliers >>lived up to 200 % longer than the flies that could fly freely. >> >> ... >> >>Is sport like sun beathing ?; (you look great shortly after >>but worse years after...) >> >>Is muscle tissue and sports activity the reason for the fact >>that women live longer ? >> >> ... >> >>And if we pay this price for sports, what sport would give >>the best physical results for the lowes oxygen price ? >> >I have also read a study on the longevity of olympic marathoners. >They seemed to have a lower mortality up to the ages of 55-60. >After that, they died off at a significantly higher rate than >sedentary counterparts. >A study has also been done on the life expectancy of U.S. professional >football players. They have amazingly short life spans. On average, >they only live to their mid-50's. >Still, I want to believe moderate exercise is beneficial. >Regards, >Lou Pagnucco These kind of statistics really mean nothing, because they don't factor out common life-style characteristics of particular groups. For examaple (and without meaning to trash national icons), I have heard that steroid use in the off-season is spreading among football players. How does that effect life-span? Likewise, do football players party hardy, more often, later into life, than mere mortals? Finally, football in particular is a fairly "brutal" sport. Would you be surprised to find that champion prizefighters have an average lifespan of only mid-forties? No? Then you shouldn't be surprised that football players have shorter life-spans than average. (BTW, the "mid-forties" lifespan for prizefighters is hypothetical, to get my point across; I have no idea what the real number is.) As for marathon runners: by any chance do they tend to stop running at 55-60? Just the first question that comes to mind, but I find you really need to "study the study" to determine if the conclusions can even begin to be considered valid. -Kevin Goldstein kevin@kg.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 09 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!melsmi From: Melvin W. Smith Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin & Dr. Pierpaoli Date: 9 Feb 1996 09:55:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet (602)395-1010 Lines: 16 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4ffu96$sh3@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4f8hk2$1b6c@venere.inet.it> X-Posted-By: melsmi@usr6.primenet.com valentino wrote: : Greetings, : someone in this area mentioned the melatonin dose for anti ageing... : I've asked it to Dr. Pierpaoli by mail, and he replied me to use 5 mg. : of melatonin 2 seasons per year, every night 40 minutes before sleep. : It was the dose for a 50 y.o. man. What do you mean '2 seasons per year' ??? -Mel -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mel Smith (in the Valley of the Sun) Fax: (602) 832-7672 melsmi@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri Feb 09 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: tristan314@aol.com (Tristan314) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Chronoprandiology... Date: 10 Feb 1996 04:12:28 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 4 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fhnhs$4pp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <1996Feb7.102743.42210@waikato.ac.nz> Reply-To: tristan314@aol.com (Tristan314) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com What is the "CR-society?" Do you have contact info for their mailing list? Thanks in advance. tristan314@aol.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 10 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!in-news.erinet.com!usenet From: davids@erinet.com (David Soule) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Resistance To Immortality Concepts Date: 10 Feb 1996 23:10:05 GMT Organization: EriNet Online 513 436-9915 Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fj8kd$ae6@eri1.erinet.com> References: <199602062017.JAA07350@host02.net.voyager.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.22.206 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 >Deck, > >I'd be happy to send you a catalog of why many people resist the idea of >'immortality'. The excuses range from irrational to realistic. > >From having presented the idea of 'arresting the aging process' on the >speaker's platform to diverse groups of people and spraying the concepts >around various internet groups, I found it constructive to list >catagories of excuses. > >The best way to constructively deal with resistance is to listen and try to >understand the rationale for such aversion. > In my own Opinion (STRESS on Opinion) Life is Not easy. This we all know. But the only thing that keeps Me going, is the fact that I know I have a limited time on this planet. And not knowing HOW long that is, makes me want to accomplish everything I can. If someone were to tell me I would live forever, I would probably become the worst procrastinator of all time. Take a decade vacation. "I'll clean the house in about oh, 5 years or so. No hurry! I'll be here awhile!" Etc. (Smile) D.Soule Undergrad Junior, Molecular Bio/Pharmacology From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat Feb 10 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Resistance To Immortality Concepts Date: 11 Feb 1996 04:46:19 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 49 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <199602102309.SAA28739@eri.erinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, David Soule wrote: > > In my own Opinion (STRESS on Opinion) > > Life is Not easy. This we all know. But the only thing that keeps Me going, > is the fact that I know I have a limited time on this planet. And not > knowing HOW long that is, makes me want to accomplish everything I can. > > If someone were to tell me I would live forever, I would probably become the > worst procrastinator of all time. Take a decade vacation. "I'll clean the > house in about oh, 5 years or so. No hurry! I'll be here awhile!" Etc. The contemporary concept of immortality involves perpetual cell division and stopping the aging process. This is not the same as living forever since there are other ways to pass that are not related to aging. Procrastination is the last thing that happens when one actually experiences the concept of living beyond the '80 year expectancy' into 200+ years. In other words, when one can actually get into visualizing and conceptualizing that we can live as long as we take care of our bodies, one does not procrastinate. It's just the opposite. Miraculously, one begins to appreciate each moment more than ever before. It is liberating. Many of our subconscious anxieties are related to the expectation of the end in just a few years. Remove that expectation temporarily, and new energy appears and compassion for other people magically envelopes our mentality. People we have disregarded in the past become important as significant human beings. By living with 'terminal expectancy,' that is, expecting to have no more than just 80 years, it is easy to become complacent and live a lifestyle that supports finality and uselessness or hopelessness. If one can put aside 'terminal expectancy,' each moment builds for the future that we can keep and very little wasted time occurs. > > (Smile) > > D.Soule > Undergrad Junior, Molecular Bio/Pharmacology > > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!newshost.comco.com!news.texas.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!melsmi From: Melvin W. Smith Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: How we age? Date: 12 Feb 1996 08:38:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet (602)395-1010 Lines: 18 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4fnmsp$d0s@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4fm9ev$6oh@nis.dacom.co.kr> X-Posted-By: melsmi@usr4.primenet.com Dear Hang Jun Jang, It is very frustrating to read your postings to this newsgroup because you allow your text lines to become too long (over 76 characters) so that the text disappears beyond the right margin. *Please* press the key *before* you get near the right margin so that your text near the right margin becomes visible to use all. JUst because *you* see it all does not mean that the rest of the world cal also see it. Your topic is very interesting and thought-provoking but it is frustrating to not get the complete text viewable on the screen. -Mel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mel Smith (in the Valley of the Sun) Fax: (602) 832-7672 melsmi@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet From: Hang-Jun Jang Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re:How we age? Date: 12 Feb 1996 02:42:39 GMT Organization: Medical School, Han-Yang univ. Seoul Lines: 87 Message-ID: <4fm9ev$6oh@nis.dacom.co.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: magicall2.dacom.co.kr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: 102727.1511@compuserve.com From: 102726.1511@compuserve.com Date: 09 Feb 96 23:43:12 EST Subject: Concerning your post on bionet.molbio.aging Dear Mr. Hang-Jun Jang, Hang-Jun Jang writes: > I am very interested in the aging mechanism. > According to Hayflick's theory, the definite capacity of proliferation > of the somatic cells may be the cause of aging. > Is there anybody who explain it to me? I was surprise to find a fellow Korean who are interested in aging research issues. I want to refer you to an aging FAQ compiled by Tim Hughes at Baylor College of Medicine. I don't know for sure if it is still available. I am a Korean-American; have been in US for 13 years. I don't have Korean language decoder for email and I am more comfortable writing English than Korean, so I am resorting to write to you in English. I have been interested in the aging research for three years, so hopefully my reply may be helpful. Hayflick limit on cell division is almost a veritable fact. However, whether the cell division limit plays an important role in aging is a complicated question. The role of telomere shortening as a cause for this cellular senescence has been investigated, but without much solid results, yet. Moreover, the issue of cellular senescence and organismal senescence are two different issues. We can't reverse the aging process just by extending the telomeres in the cells. Somethings can't be reversed by a such simple process, for example collagen deposits that make skins of aged individuals wrinkly and stiff. Moreover, I believe that cellular senescence is good thing for a matured organism. If cells were able to divide infinitely, there will be a greater chance for the organism to develop cancers and die prematurely. Many of our important tissues are already terminally developed, and there seems a very good reason for these cells stop dividing. Besides telomere shortening, there are various contending theories on aging. All are interesting and have good points. All I can do is wait until some breakthrough is made. I hope that helps with some of the questions. regards, Tae Hoon Kim 102727.1511@compuserve.com Dear Mr. Tae Hoon Kim I am very glad to hear from you. How are you? I am very fine to have recently completed medical school, passed licensing exam. Your letter was a big surprise to me because you' re a Korean-American and interested in aging research issues like me! I thank the Internet power. Now I am going to serve 3 years as a public health doctor in the rural district as a substitute of military duty. After that, I am going to undergo hospital training in U.S.A in order to make a research of aging mechanism and geriatrics. So, My goal is to get both MD /Ph.D. degrees. We can, therefore, meet in U.S. A. some day. Let's cooperate each other in increasing the healthy span of life, ultimately get the eternal youth! How about your plan? I totally agree to your viewpoint that the issue of cellular senescence and organism's senescence are tow different issues. Yes, it's unlikely to increase life span just by extending the short telomere in the elderly. You know that neuron and cardiac muscle cells do not divide, so they are not under the Hayflick's limit, but, their number diminishes as they age. It is, therefore, impossible to explain aging phenomena in all kinds of cells just only by Hayflick's theory. Hayflick's theory may, however, have a meaningful implication from a observation that in Nature, the longer the organisms live, the greater the number of division that somatic cells can do is. In this sense, Hayflick's limit seems to play a role in aging process. In my opinion, however, it's possible for a certain bias to intervene in this interpretation. If we can make the transgenic mice that has more longer telomere or much more division potential than the control do, we may prove it. I don't know yet about such a experiment that has ever been done. What do you think of my idea? Your sincerely Hang Jun Jang iam@chollian.dacom.co.kr From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ST.CEU.EDU!AJackson From: AJackson@ST.CEU.EDU ("Alan E. Jackson") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Resistance To Immortality Concepts Date: 11 Feb 1996 18:22:49 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 301 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <311EA372@st.ceu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Introducing "MAGNETRITION"; a term describing the process by which magnetism is utilized boilogically. Awaiting mankind's acceptance, the study of magnetrition offers man a healthier and longer life. This new knowledge concerning mans' magnetritional needs, when utilized, will represent a maturization milestone in the history of mankind. The assessment of research presents these facts; l. Magnetic bacteria use the properties of a magnetic field in order to form a chain of magnetite within its' body, from the iron it absorbs. 2. Magnetic bacteria use the properties of a magnetic field in order to migrate magneticly. 3. Magnetic bacteria live and die within the cells of our body. 4. Magnetic bacteria not having its' needs met, as it attempts its' functions within our cells, leads to the deterioration of body tissues. 5. Astronauts are now recognized as suffering from magnetic deficiency syndrome, brought about by the needs of magnetic bacteria, (within their cells), not being met while outside the earth's magnetic field. 6. A prolonged state of inactivity of magnetic bacteria within cells, such as when a bird's egg is not turned, or an infant is not carried, leads to energy levels too low to maintain life. 7. Periodic exposure to the magnetic field produced by A/C voltage causes poorly formed nuclear envelopes, within cells. 8. Through the proper use of magnetic fields, man may now achieve a higher degree of wellbeing, and travel farther through both time and space. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following article is from; THE NEWS-TIMES, Morehead City-beaufort, N.C. Monday, Nov. 11, 1985. "LOCAL THEORIST BELIEVES MOVEMENT IS ESSENTIAL TO CELLULAR GROWTH, LIFE". BY JOHN HACKNEY, News-Times Staff Writer. ALAN JACKSON, Morehead City, fancies himself as a backyard philosopher. He spends a lot of hours reading books, magazines and research papers trying to understand just why certain things are the way they are. Mr. Jackson's most recent research has yielded an astounding theory; that movement is as important as nourishment to human beings. He came to that conclusion based on the behavior of magnetic bacteria. He also believes these bacteria may be responsible for cell division. "I think movement through the earth's magnetic field is as important as nutrition." MR. JACKSON, 32, left high school at the age of 17 to join the Marine Corp. He spent four years at Cherry Point, during which time he earned general education development (G.E.D.) degree and took college preparatory courses in various fields. Since leaving Cherry Point, he has held jobs with Hatsel Electric Co.; with Conner Homes as an electrician; with Carteret Court Apartments, as maintenance supervisor; and at Sea Coast Refrigeration. He has also taken several college courses at Carteret Technical College. MR. JACKSON believes the earth's magnetic field is generated by molten lava rotating in the earth's core. The lava moves in the opposite direction of the earth itself, thus creating such a field. "If we go to other planets, and no molten lava is flowing under the surface to create a magnetic field, the chances of finding life as we know it is slim." Without flux lines, the magnetic bacteria would have no guide to food. "we can't live without flux lines," he said. Based on his unguessable research, Mr. Jackson theorizes that magnetic bacteria in cells follow flux lines within the geomagnetic field to get iron, which is there source of nourishment. DR. RICHARD P. BLAKEMORE, a scientist at the University of New Hampshire, has said that amorphous cells (cells without form) accumulate a great deal of iron from outside cell walls to produce magnetic particles. Mr. Jackson believes it is more then a coincidence that humans need iron supplement to exist. SCIENTISTS know that bacteria collect and store iron, but they have yet to discover how. Mr. Jackson thinks magnetic bacteria swim inside individual cells within the body to get iron, possibly from the exterior walls of the cell nucleus or from the outer walls of the cell itself. He contends the bacteria move within the cell according to the body's orientation to magnetic flux lines. It has been shown that magnetic bacteria in the northern hemisphere migrate along flex lines in a northerly fashion, while magnetic bacteria in the southern hemisphere move south THE NUMBERS of north-seeking and south-seeking magnetic bacteria at the equator have been proven equal, indicating the effect of flux lines on bacteria. Dr. Blakemore and Dr. Richard B. Frankel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology wrote that "magnetotactic bacteria are bottom-dwelling organisms that are either anaerobic (capable of living only in the absence of oxygen) or microaerophilic (surviving best in environments with little oxygen)." Therefore, they theorize, these bacteria would have a tendency to migrate downward, depending on their location, because "it would help them to avoid toxic effects of the greater concentration of oxygen in surface water." Mr. Jackson believes all people are essentially addicted to movement. An april 1979 article in Omni magazine cited the deterioration of astronauts' bones after periods of inactivity or weightlessness. THIS DETERIORATION of bones, called osteoporosis, is thought by most to be associated with lack of gravitational forces in space. Mr. Jackson thinks it is caused by the body having almost no orientation to the earth's magnetic field (or to north and south poles). Wiring within the spaceship may create some magnetism, but no definite poles, from which bacteria can orient themselves. WITHOUT bodily movement, magnetic bacteria cannot move in the cell along magnetic flux lines. Mr. Jackson said that was the reason chicken eggs, if not moved after being laid, would deteriorate. Without movement, the bacteria cannot constantly reorient themselves and move, and are left in a mass on one side of the cell. It is the movement of those bacteria that is important to cellular growth. He said cells were important to both tissues and bone growth in the body, thus accounting for the deterioration of bones found in astronauts. HE THINKS further experiments might show that astronauts have some deterioration of all tissues. Mr. Jackson said all people, young and old, are indirectly affected by magnetic bacteria. He thinks indians used to carry their papooses (babies) on their backs to keep them moving and thus indirectly helping the body grow. HE ALSO believes crib death of babies is caused from lack of movement. He said babies do not have the muscle coordination necessary to move themselves when first born. If the are not moved, the magnetic bacteria will be essentially immobile and not be able to set many body function in motion MR. JACKSON also believes lack of movement may be the reason bones and other tissues begin to fade as people get older and inactive. The less movement, the less the body will grow. He added that one experiment exemplified how magnetic bacteria could be degaussed (or rendered neutral in magnetism) through the application of heat. He has seized on this to theorize the reason for the basis of cellular life. MR. JACKSON believes that as human cells age , magnetic bacteria and other bacteria crowd the cells, creating excess friction or heat (thermal energy), which effectively demagnetizes magnetic bacteria for a moment, causing half the bacteria to lose their orientation to flux lines and head in the opposite direction. This intense action may cause cells to split. He believes that scientists may have overlooked the fact that magnetic bacteria heading in opposite directions may cause DNA (dioxyribo nucleic acid) molecules in the cell nucleus to split. DNA is associated with the transmission of genes in all living things. THE END. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "WORM SIGN" (Book worm that is.) You may have seen reports concerning research relating to magnetic fields. And noticed that the reason they have been described as "controversial",is because of a lack of what is known as a "Mechanistic model", or a working experimental model. The information hereRin, has the ability to take one passed the previous groping for a model, to the beginning of an underR standing. Now, this initial understanding, that magnetic bacteria live inside our cells, can teach each person a way of life which will allow his body to maintain better health. And focus the research work onto a path which will surely lead to still better health. Like nutrition, "Magnetrition" is something, that when a person uses its principles, he displays much better stewardship when it comes to the care of the cells of his body. Magnetrition takes the concept of exercise is step forward. With the understanding that exercise has been mans way of avoiding the effects of magnetic deficiency syndrome, he becomes aware that his lifestile of movement in the earth's magnetic field has always been a determining foctor in the equation of his health. The concept of magnetrition has been around for ten years. But because its truth shows many to be wrong in their way of thinking, it has not been embraced by mankind. Poor leadership, or the prevention of good leadership, can be the only reason for the lack of magnetritions' beneficial effect on mankind. Magnetrition causes many to rethink what they thought they learned. "MAGNETRITION" Good news for some. Bad news for others. It now is shown that all lab animal experiments were flawed because the animals need to move about in the earth's magnetic field was not taken into account. Like NASA, and all medical diagnoses up to now, something they were not aware of was playing an important part, but went unnoticed for many different reasons. With the lab animal experiments, many researcher reported seeing what they and/or their supporters wanted to see. They essentially led many into embracing their personal beliefs, or prejudices against others, by the deception of allowing their assessment to be referred to as proof. Systematically, man source of niacin has been shifted from the time honored tradition of smoking, to one controlled by those in the pharmceutical industry. Because those in the professional practice of medicine stand to profit as niacin becomes a monetary issue for everyone, we see it embraced by those known as doctors. Without a person smoking, he is left lacking, both physically and mentally. This has led to many embracing a lifestyle offered by religion. A lifestyle which is group oriented becomes helpful to those made lacking by the deception that smoking is causing the effects of magnetic deficiency syndrome. Those who have embraced the deception that smoking is unhealthy, and have publicly denounced the tradition of smoking, not only helped to lead many astray, helped in the persecution of those keeping to the tradition, but now prevents the benefits of magnetrition to all, by their unwillingness to admit to being wrong. Poor health is the price for greed and ignorance. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!Inter.NL.net!usenet From: H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 12 Feb 1996 20:24:37 GMT Organization: Inter.NL.net, The Internet Provider in The Netherlands. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <4fo7m5$d4h@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> <4ffmjj$mdo@epx.cis.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: solair1.inter.nl.net Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2476 sci.life-extension:10370 selby@lenti.med.umn.edu (Scott Selby (Med-Hem)) wrote: > > H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net wrote: > You have ignored numerous human studies where sedentary lifestyles > coincide with increased risk for heart disease, stroke, etc. etc. and a > study done on rowers in the late 70's that showed that these athletes > (many of whom continued their sport after college) outlived there > classmates by 10-12 years. > And so it should be, if moderate exercise results in healthier lifestyle choices. But what about a healthy lifestyle with a minimum of exercise, just enough to keep things functioning well ? > This physiobabble is the same thing sighted by trash newspapers every so > often about the deleterious effects of exercise. What you fail to > recognize is that in evolutionary terms, our vigorous types are probably > very sedentary compared to the gathering/hunting lifestyle of prehistoric > peoples. > I hardly think they were jogging all day. Not used to it anyway. (Remember what happened to the messenger at Marathon ?) But you sure have a point that some fysical activity is normal for human kind. > Drawing parallels between fruit flys and human behaviour is ludicrous. > Paralysis in humans (the ultimate in non-activity) results in a decrease > in life-span of 5-20 years depending on the extend of injury. While this > is complicated by the other health issues involved in spinal cord injury, > the 200% figure you sight in fruit flies should outweigh the deleterious > effects of spinal cord injury. Yes, I had wondered about that. Does anyone know how people in a coma age ? While my reasoning in this argument is > ridiculous, at best, it shows the danger of taking wildly disperate > species studies and drawing conclusions about supposed health benefits or > deleterious effects. > > I'll continue my fitness and diet.... (rest snipped) Oops, sorry. I didn't know I was touching a sensitive spot there. Just trying to get discussion going. Still; Cheers, Harrie From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!Inter.NL.net!usenet From: H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing,sci.life-extension Subject: Re: Live shortening effects of sport Date: 12 Feb 1996 20:31:40 GMT Organization: Inter.NL.net, The Internet Provider in The Netherlands. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4fo83c$eu9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> References: <4fb2tm$bj9@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> <856459486wnr@longevb.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: solair1.inter.nl.net Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.ageing:2477 sci.life-extension:10371 > After all, excercise must by itself be damaging, that is clear. But the > body rteceives the information that this damage is taking place and > corrects it, indeed overcorrects it in some aspects by strengthening muscle > and bone. The actual strengthening of muscle and bone are chemical not > mechanical processes, and they are initiated by the *information* that > excercise is taking place. If we can fool the body into beleiving that > excercise is taking place when it isn't, then we have the benefits without > the mechanical wear. > Brilliant thought. Should be possible. Still, I'd like to discuss the possibility that lean muscle tissue itself could be life shortening; simply by burning more oxygen. This might be a reason for the CR succes if started in early youth (less muscle tissue) and a reason for women outliving men. Cheers, Harrie From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun Feb 11 22:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!Inter.NL.net!usenet From: H.O.van.den.Berg@Inter.NL.net Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Melatonin update Date: 12 Feb 1996 20:56:52 GMT Organization: Inter.NL.net, The Internet Provider in The Netherlands. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <4fo9ik$h3t@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> References: <4f0mgn$q09@maureen.teleport.com> <4f5rkg$pfh@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> <4fbfqs$eab@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: solair1.inter.nl.net jor@teleport.com (Jo Robinson) wrote: > > > > ** A local news channel just took about 15 minutes of broadcast quality > video of the mice -- the mice performed admirably. In every instance, the > melatonin mice were ahead of the others. I've asked for a copy of the > tape, and if I get one, I'd be happy to co