From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 02 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!internet!biosci!not-for-mail From: biohelp (BIOSCI Administrator) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: IMPORTANT - BIOSCI Fundraising Update! Date: 3 May 1996 02:01:57 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 154 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199605030900.CAA01790@net.bio.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net BIOSCI is about halfway to its funding goal!! I'm interrupting the usual monthly posting of the BIOSCI miniFAQ to bring you up to date on BIOSCI fundraising progress, a topic of concern to your future use of this resource. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this message carefully. Last year we announced that BIOSCI was going to adopt the U.S. Public Broadcasting System model to fund its operations after our DOE/NSF grant runs out later this year. Unlike PBS, we are not soliciting contributions from users; we are only selling ads on our Web pages solely to cover our operating costs. Our goal is to seek sponsorships until we build up an operating reserve of about $100,000 and then cease further promotions until we need to build the reserve back up. (The accountants among our readership will be familiar with the problem of deferred revenue which we can not safely utilize until ads have been displayed for a period of time.) We are only about halfway to our funding goal and need to raise further funds to avoid having to curtail services at net.bio.net. Fundraising is time-consuming, however, and we need your help as explained further below. Our operating costs consist of our network connection, phone lines, hardware maintenance (we will be getting newer and faster hardware soon!), plus 0.7 FTE of salaries covering UNIX systems admin, technical support, quality assurance, i.e., testing, of our system, and administrative costs (such as the time it takes to actually find/write/call potential sponsors and raise money!). Although the BIOSCI staff does get compensated for a portion of the work that they do, this project has always received a lot of free after-hours and "vacation" time labor, so we hope that no one will begrudge the time that we do charge to the project to serve you. All of the three part-time staff members, Dave Mack, Julie Lawrence, and myself, have full time day jobs and families in addition to working hard to keep this service running for all of you. Julie and Dave Mack are subcontractors for BIOSCI; my time that is charged to the project defrays a portion of my regular salary instead of adding to my income. Besides having to relocate the project, we were very busy this last year building new infrastructure such as our WWW hypermail interface to the system. This was released last December along with scores of WAIS indices for the newsgroups. Virtually everything is complete, although we do continue to find and fix bugs (many through your helpful feedback!). We are still having some problems with our WAIS indexing. The archives continue to grow rapidly. We are running over 100 indexes now versus three previously and any systems crashes cause greater havoc with the indexing than before! We are still working to fix this as fast as our resources permit and appreciate your patience, but we have been able to automate a lot of the infrastructure to reduce labor as compared to past requirements. We have also implemented new software to make moderation of BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups much easier and combat the growing problem of Internet junk mail and USENET "spamming." About 20% of our groups are now moderated, many of them by the BIOSCI staff! This, for example, made a major difference last year in the quality of content in our EMPLOYMENT/bionet.jobs.offered newsgroup which many commercial concerns and recruiting firms are using **without charge** to recruit candidates for positions in the biological sciences. We are also now in a position to have sponsors for individual newsgroups as you will have noticed if you have visited http://www.bio.net/ and clicked on "Access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups" recently. So, how can you help?? ---------------------- As noted above it can take a lot of time to contact potential sponsors if I have to do it all myself. Our request is quite simple. You can do two important things which will take very little time for you individually. First, please use our WWW system at http://www.bio.net/ to access the archives. You can now post or reply to messages via your Web browser. Your usage helps attract sponsors. If you contact any of our sponsors, please be sure to thank them for supporting BIOSCI. It is critical for them to get this feedback if they are to continue their sponsorship for the long term. Second, if you work for a company or organization that provides products or services of interest to the biology community, please pass this message on to your marketing or marketing communications department or other appropriate group. Please ask them to help support BIOSCI by sponsoring our Web site and explain the uses and benefits of the system to the biology community. If they are interested, they can then contact us for further information at our tech support address, biosci-help@net.bio.net. Our hope is to quickly raise several large corporate/institutional sponsors on our heavily-used WWW locations (some stats appended below), and then end this sponsorship campaign so that our resources can continue to be used for service provision, not fundraising. Many of our specialty newsgroup WWW archives are still used by small communities of scientists (and they haven't been heavily promoted yet). While these may be valuable niche markets to some advertisers, it will generate more labor and overhead having to find these sponsors, fairly price the locations, and deal with lots of smaller sponsorships than fewer mid-to large sponsors. We are striving to keep our operation as lean and efficient as possible since we are not trying to make careers out of running BIOSCI. We are trying if at all possible to avoid the administrative overhead entailed with processing lots of small payments to reach our fundraising goals. I'd like to thank all of you for your help in advance. In helping us, you are also helping yourselves, not only in keeping this resource available for all of the both large and small research communities that we serve, but also by alleviating the need for us to go back and compete with researchers for tight grant dollars! We promised NSF when we were awarded the BIOSCI grant that we would carry out this mission to make the service self-supporting. With your help, we will succeed in continuing BIOSCI's work into its second decade. Thank you very much! Sincerely, Dave Kristofferson BIOSCI/bionet Manager biosci-help@net.bio.net A list of our prime WWW sponsorship locations follow. Please contact us for further details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The overall BIOSCI WWW pages are currently visited by users from close to 5500 unique computer hosts per week. Web servers only log the Internet computer/host name and frequently more than one individual can connect to us from a particular host. Main home page, http://www.bio.net, visited recently by about 2100 unique hosts per week Main Newsgroups archives page, http://www.bio.net/archives.html, visited recently by about 1200 Unique hosts per week BIO-JOURNALS archive page, http://www.bio.net/BIO-JOURNALS.html, visited recently by about 1000 unique hosts per week. EMPLOYMENT archive pages: http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/EMPLOYMENT/ and monthly header pages, visited recently by about 800 unique hosts per week. Address database search page, http://www.bio.net/addrsearch.html, visited recently by about 450 unique hosts per week. Methods newsgroup archive pages, http://www.bio.net:80/hypermail/METHDS- REAGNTS/ and monthly header pages, visited recently by about 350 unique hosts per week. Ads can also be displayed on various combinations of other BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. Please contact us at biosci-help@net.bio.net for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 02 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Proponents of Longevity Date: 3 May 1996 07:56:55 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 149 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <960212155524_100413.2614_BHG124-1@CompuServe.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Bozzonetti combats resistance to immortality concepts. Great positive mental attitude! On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, yvan Bozzonetti wrote: > D. Ashley asks for some comments on some arguments against longevity, there is > my own list: > > > fears of population crowding > > Use floating cities on oceans, kilometer size building in today deserts, brain > uploading in virtual worlds with link to a brain from a smaller life form. > > > missing loved ones that don't stay > > Use relativity to recover information "frozen" in black hole skin ( the Earth is > a near BH in some reference frames). > > > notions that social security will be drained > > make a social revolution > > > don't mess with God's plan > > Who's that guy? > > > taxpayer-supported convalescent centers will drain the budget > > Why? How can infinite survival be possible with a frail corpse? Very great > longevity implies strong health. > > > old people are too slow, not fun > > Very long life is not very long "old age" as we see today, see answer above. > > > old people need to die to make way for youth > > There is room for everybody, see answer about overpopulation. > > > who wants to see 150 year old skin in the mirror? > > Me if it looks 20. > > > can't have kids anymore, others will develop bigger families > > Biological control will reduce that at a personal choice. > > > would you go want to have sex with a 130 year-old? > > No! too young for me if I am 200 000. > > > don't get my hopes up, only to get let down > > Take Deprenyl, Prozac or the like. > > > too far-fetched to give it mental energy > > Too near for typical biochemical culture in most people it seems. > > > snake-oil salesmen are promoting it to make $ > > Learn the difference between biochemistry and crackpot oil. > > > embarrased to talk about it with my friends > > Learn biochemistry and talk about it. > > > the enemy or other countries might get it first > > With Internet, everybody will know it the next day, "countries..." what is the > meaning of this word? > > > others might make money on it > > What matter ? > > > having too much fun now > > Then continue for some millenia at least. > > > don't have time for it > > Then why to loss so much time on death? > > > other scientists might get the glory, not me > > Talk me about that glory 10 000 years from now. > > > others have died, so should we > > OK, recall me that in one million years. > > > death is a relief from all today's problems > > Take Prozac,.... if you are depressed. > > > can't tolerate another 150 years w/ same spouse, job, car, house > > OK, move and change everthing. > > > who wants to spend 150 years hooked up in the hospital bed? > > Nobody, why should be? > > > in 200 years average IQ will be 300, they will keep us around for pets > > Buy a computer with a brain link and get the last Microsoft IQ ten billion soft. > > > looking forward to meeting God in person > > The heaven can wait, anyway I look for hell to have free heating. > > > looking fwd to being reincarnated into something more exciting > > Me too... In some millenia, meanwhile I choose longevity. > > > looking fwd to being w/ others gone by > > A Relativistic technology problem having to do with Black Hole outher skin. > > > looking fwd to infinite intelligence and answers to all q's > > Ask for quantum computers with brain link and Microsoft IQ package. > > > martyrdom > > Not for me. > > > Saddam may spend $15 billion of his $30 bil on it first > > No, too stupid to do that. > > > don't toy around w genetics; who wants ears growing out their neck? > > Read less sci-fi, more biochemistry. > > Some personal questions: > ***************************** > > Must we extend life extension to most mammal species? > Must we boost brain in other species? > Must we use genes from other species for us? > Must we give some of our genes to other? > Produce new species from mixing old ones, including our own? > > For me, five yes. Reactions? > > Y. Bozzonetti. > From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sat May 04 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: Bert Gold Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 08:36:12 -0700 Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 132 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Dixie Lawrence cc: John Burris Xref: biosci bionet.general:21489 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:936 bionet.cellbiol:4605 bionet.glycosci:657 bionet.biophysics:1935 bionet.molbio.ageing:2685 bionet.molbio.proteins:7787 bionet.neuroscience:13947 sci.med:122374 sci.research.careers:10113 talk.politics.medicine:51166 April 22, 1996 Walking back from the bank to the hospital today I was prompted to buy several large juicy navel oranges. I've been eyeing oranges for many weeks now, but my wife and I have a long standing disagreement about who picks the best ones. I thought the oranges she chose at a fruit stand, just outside Half Moon Bay yesterday, were puny; she again suggested I always pick the oversized, dried up ones. Today, though, my oranges were winners: Sweet, juicy and large; just the way I like them. In the news the past several days, as you've probably heard, Vitamin C requirements (RDAs, Required Daily Allowance, set by the National Research Council, the nation's highest scientific authority) for adult males have been revalued upward. Not modestly either: But three-fold, and still the upper limit is poorly defined. It seems an intramural researcher at NIH finally got the funding go ahead to do some of the experiments which Linus Pauling and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi always longed to do before the end of their lives, but were denied funding for. It is notable that in this latest work (1), seven men in their twenties were fed increasing doses of Vitamin C after being starved for it in their diet. Although they never showed signs of scurvy, each volunteer did report feeling uncomfortable when deprived of Vitamin C. The NIH authors note that because the subjects of their study were young men in their 20's, the results are limited to this subject group. The vivid image of Szent-Gyorgyi standing in front of Whitman Auditorium in Woods Hole holding a bottle of glyoxyl in one hand and Vitamin C in the other is permanently etched in my memory. I'll not easily forget the hypothesis of 'radical scavenging' which Szent-Gyorgyi put to us that day: He said that he and Pauling had been talking about the central importance of OXYGEN in human metabolism and explained that he had been concerned for a good deal of time about reactions generating singlet oxygen. These, produced in abundance during mitochondrial "charge transfer" in liver parenchyma, and other aerobically active tissues, must absorb electrons pairwise in order to avoid causing damage. In 1931, Pauling discovered the superoxide radical, which, though produced in minute quantities as an unwanted byproduct of oxidative phosphorylation, has enormous destructive capacity if not defused (2). During lectures given at UC Berkeley in the 80s, Pauling paid tribute to the remarkable specificity of the enzymatic system that neutralizes it: Superoxide dismutase; at the same time, however, he noted that this enzyme does not defuse the lesser, but still significant intracellular destructive capacity of singlet oxygen or the hydroxide radical (and unkown to him at the time, the NO radical). Superoxide dismutase transforms superoxide radicals to peroxide which can then be eliminated as water after the action of peroxidase and catalase. But what is the body to do with all the unpaired electrons such a process would generate? Szent-Gyorgyi told that oxygen itself could absorb unpaired electrons if only it were conjugated to carbon in the form of a double carbonyl: the simplest such compound being glyoxyl, commonly found in human liver, for this compound had sufficient electron delocalization to provide something of an electron sink. And, the supply of glyoxyl is renewable through the action of the glutathione-S-tranferase system, present in liver mitochondria. Further, Szent-Gyorgyi told us excitedly, two englishmen and a german, H.D. Dakin, H.W. Dudley and C. Neuberg had, in 1913 discovered that methylated-glyoxyl could be transformed to a potent energy source itself, lactic acid, through the action of glyoxylase, which they discovered in that year. So, in one fell swoop, Szent-Gyorgyi had connected for us the relationship between oxygen radical and one carbon metabolism. I promise I will discuss this relationship in the next few weeks, when I write another essay, tentatively titled, Folic Acid and I. In comments honoring Szent-Gyorgyi on the occasion of his 82nd birthday, Linus Pauling recalled Vitamin C's discovery by Szent-Gyorgyi in 1928. Pauling noted that Szent-Gyorgyi had written in 1939 (4) that although organisms were generally well adapted to their surroundings, that the destruction of the natural environment endangered that adapatation. "I have a strong faith in the perfection of the human body", Szent-Gyorgyi wrote in 1939, "and I think that vitamins are an important factor in its coordination with its surroundings. Vitamins, if properly understood and applied, will help us to reduce human suffering to an extent which the most fantastic mind would fail to imagine." (3) On the day that I met him in Woods Hole, Szent-Gyorgyi told us he and Pauling (three Nobel prizes) between them suggested that significant increases in Vitamin C intake were almost certainly required by an adult body, perhaps especially at times when oxygen production was increased. Szent-Gyorgyi had insisted in a book he had written two years before, that Vitamin C, especially when complexed with manganese in the presence of oxygen, could synthesize a free radical form, as well and as easily as it could form a dehydroascorbate, oxidized form in the presence of copper or iron and in alliance with an enzyme he'd discovered in plants in 1931 and named 'ascorbic acid oxidase.' Szent-Gyorgyi insisted that it was in some sense the equilibrium between the various oxidized and reduced forms of ascorbate which provided its multifarious activities. And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men has been adjusted three-fold upward. It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research 'establishment'... The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this country. My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in making decision about what to and what not to study. Bert Gold San Francisco References (1) Levine, M.; Conry-Cantilena, C.; Wang, Y.; Welch, R.W.; Washko, P.W.; Dhariwal, K.R.; Park, J.B.; Lazarev, A.; Graumlich, J.G., King, J.; Cantilena, L.R. (1996) Vitamin C pharmacokinetics in healthy volunteers: Evidence for a recommended dietary allowance. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA; 93, 3704-3709. (2) Marinacci, B. (1995) Linus Pauling in His Own Words, New York, Simon & Shuster. (3) Kaminer, B., ed. (1977) Search and Discovery, A tribute to Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, New York, Academic Press. (4) Szent-Gyorgyi, A. (1939) On Oxidation, Fermentation, Vitamins, Health and Disease. Baltimore, Williams and Wilkins. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!martinlab From: klenchin@macc.wisc.edu (Dima Klenchin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Sun, 05 May 96 22:55:18 GMT Organization: UW-Madison Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: martinlab.biochem.wisc.edu X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: biosci bionet.general:21490 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:937 bionet.cellbiol:4607 bionet.glycosci:658 bionet.biophysics:1936 bionet.molbio.ageing:2686 bionet.molbio.proteins:7788 bionet.neuroscience:13949 sci.med:122383 sci.research.careers:10114 talk.politics.medicine:51169 In article , Bert Gold wrote: Newsgroups: >bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bi >onet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience >,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in >making decision about what to and what not to study. Judging by the number of newsgroups crossposted, Bert Gold fully qualifies as spammer... :-)) Just kidding Seriously: Dr. Gold has obviously very strong opinion on the subject. The Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? - Dima From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 6 May 1996 12:37:24 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4mkrq4$pih@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21501 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:939 bionet.cellbiol:4610 bionet.glycosci:661 bionet.biophysics:1937 bionet.molbio.ageing:2688 bionet.molbio.proteins:7793 bionet.neuroscience:13956 sci.med:122444 sci.research.careers:10122 talk.politics.medicine:51190 Dima, My reading of the aforemented PNAS paper by Levine et al., (1996) disagrees with the very high dose vitamin C protocols which were advocated by Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi, without providing any firm evidence on the issue, and without mentioning these great investigators by name. Conclusions in the PNAS paper are limited to a new RDA for ascorbate for men in their 20s. Bert Gold San Francisco Dima Klenchin (klenchin@macc.wisc.edu) wrote: : Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair : is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? : - Dima From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!MAIL.THEATLANTIC.COM!ryan From: ryan@MAIL.THEATLANTIC.COM (ryan nally) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: FYI from the Atlantic Monthly Date: 6 May 1996 08:40:52 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 51 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear "Ageing" Discussion Group Members, We'd like to let you know about a timely article and a valuable resource that the Atlantic Monthly is providing on the Web. If you maintan a Web page, you may want to consider linking to either or both of these features from your page. First, in the Atlantic's May cover story, "Social Insecurity" (available on our Web site at http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/issues/96may/aging/aging.htm), Peter G. Peterson warns of the devasting impact that the aging of the Baby Boom generation will have on the American economy. Peterson, the founding president of the Concord Coalition and a member of the President's Commission on Entitlement Reform in 1994, argues that the present system of entitlements simply cannot be sustained, and that only drastic changes made now will enable us to avert a major crisis. Also this month, in the current installment of our innovative online poll -- "Executive Decision" (http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/election/connection/decision/decision.h tm) -- Senior Editor Jack Beatty presents the difficult choices faced by our current and any future President on the question of entitlements. The poll is written in the form of a hypothetical memo to the Chief Executive from his or her chief of staff. Participants are asked to put themselves in the position of the President, to make a policy decision on the issue at hand, and to write a brief explanation of their choice. The results are then posted along with excerpts from various respondents. A new scenario is published every two weeks. The next Executive Decision will concern health care and will be written by James Fallows, our Washington Editor. Executive Decision is part of the Atlantic's "Election Connection '96" -- a robust political resource centered around a rich compendium of background articles from the Atlantic, written by many of the country's most distinguished commentators and covering all the major issues of the 1996 campaign. If you would like to provide a link to the May cover story, the current Executive Decision, and/or the Election Connection home page -- or if you would like more information about the Atlantic's edition on the Web -- please feel free to contact me at: Ryan P. Nally New Media Department http://www.TheAtlantic.com The Atlantic Monthly ryan@theatlantic.com 745 Boylston St. Boston, MA 02116 (617)-536-9500 ext. 227 Fax (617)-536-6605 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!usenet From: "John E. Kuslich" Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 18:37:27 -0600 Organization: CRAK Software Lines: 56 Message-ID: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: s178.phxslip4.indirect.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) CC: news Xref: biosci bionet.general:21511 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:943 bionet.cellbiol:4616 bionet.glycosci:663 bionet.biophysics:1941 bionet.molbio.ageing:2690 bionet.molbio.proteins:7801 bionet.neuroscience:13968 sci.med:122540 sci.research.careers:10137 talk.politics.medicine:51213 Bert Gold wrote: > <<<>> > And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > has been adjusted three-fold upward. > > It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > 'establishment'... > > The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died > without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final > nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about > our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this > country. > > My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer > because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in > making decision about what to and what not to study. > > Bert Gold > San Francisco > > References <<> Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called scientific research. Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer simulation of weather. Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! Oh well... John E. Kuslich -- John E. Kuslich WPcrak for Wordperfect johnk@indirect.com WDcrak for MS Word Password Recovery EXcrak for MS Excel 602 863 9274 voice QPcrak for Quattro Pro 602 548 1993 fax LOcrak for Lotus 123 Password Removal QWcrak for Quicken Our WEB Site http://www.indirect.com/www/johnk/ >>>>>>>>You Hack'em, We CRAK'em<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!newsreader.wustl.edu!usenet From: Chris Pung Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Cellular senescence and DS-DNA PK Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 19:04:53 -0600 Organization: Washington University Lines: 60 Message-ID: <318EA1B5.1483@artsci.wustl.edu> Reply-To: cpung@artsci.wustl.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: @dialin2-88.wustl.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Dear All, This is my first time writing to this group, so I'll introduce myself. I am a second year graduate student in developmental biology at Washington University in St. Louis. I am generally interested in the biology of aging and am presently developing my Ph.D. thesis on senescence of the multicellular alga Volvox. I look forward to meeting some new people through this newsgroup and joining in the discussions. One question in my mind is about the involvement of the Double-stranded DNA protein kinase in the Hayflick limit. I am supportive of the idea that telomere loss could act as a clock in cellular senescence and P53 mediated expression of p21 could mediate the G1 cell cycle arrest. What also seems like a good part of this hypothesis to me is that the DS-DNA protein kinase is the molecular link between telomere loss and P53 activation/cell cycle arrest. I have seen the connection between DS-DNA PK and p53 mentioned in reviews on P53. DS-DNA PK is a complex made up of the two Ku antigens and a huge protein of 300-450 KD. The complex binds free double stranded DNA ends, presumably DNA breaks in vivo, and then phosphorylates various substrates, notably the activation domain of p53, which would lead to cell cycle arrest. I have also seen reviews of cellular senescence which suggest the hypothesis (which I support) that telomeres mask the ends of chromosomes from DNA damage sensing systems in the cell, such that loss of telomeres would unmask a double stranded DNA end which would then trigger DNA repair mechanisms via p53 activation. And, since there is nothing to ligate the telomere ends to, the G1 arrest for repair would be perpetual. What I have not seen is the invocation of DS-DNA PK as part of this picture. I don't think p53 researchers pay much attention to this protein either. DS DNA PK should be the protein which binds the unmasked telomere end and then phosphorylates P53 into activity leading to cell cycle arrest. Do most people have DS-DNA PK in their mental picture of how cell senescence takes place? Has there been research into this that is unpublished or that I have not heard about? I would think that there are experiments to test this link. One could try to localize DS-DNA PK to a telomere end in senescent cells or look at cells deficient in DS-DNA PK activity to see if they bypass Wright and Shay's M1 step in immortalization. What do people think? Thanks for your input, Chris Pung From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 7 May 1996 19:25:43 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 69 Message-ID: <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21527 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:946 bionet.cellbiol:4626 bionet.glycosci:665 bionet.biophysics:1944 bionet.molbio.ageing:2694 bionet.molbio.proteins:7818 bionet.neuroscience:13987 sci.med:122643 sci.research.careers:10149 talk.politics.medicine:51242 I agree with Mr. Wagner when he suggests that Mr. Kuslich has not properly sorted the wheat from the chaff in the scientific literature. In addition, it is precisely the point that science has become overly politicized which I was trying to make in writing my post. In fact, regular readers of my essays will remember that the Woods Hole meeting I proposed specifically excluded media and was wholly aimed at gathering a fair and honest consensus from scientists before presenting the results to the public. However, the scientific ruling elite have chosen not to follow this wise course, preferring noisy public debate and namecalling to reasoned, well thought-out discourse. Our leaders need to rethink their positions. Bert Gold San Francisco Path: itssrv1.ucsf.edu!cgl!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail From: wagner@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lukas Wagner) Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 7 May 1996 12:06:34 -0400 Organization: Ohio State University Physics Dept. John E. Kuslich wrote: >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called >scientific research. > The ozone hole is quite real. You might look up articles by Sherwood Rowland written in the last 10 years if you don't believe me, or if you have qualms about the quality of the research. The evidence on global warming is mixed to the best of my knowledge. I believe that the basis for the conclusions is careful work on ice cores. Why you put either of these in the same category as cold fusion is beyond me; perhaps you can cite review articles in real journals that indicate the poor quality of the science? >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. > Generously, this sentence suggests that you haven't read the Journal of Atmospheric Research recently. If getting to a library is troublesome, catch NCAR's web site: http://www.ncar.ucar.edu/ for some idea of what people who study weather actually do. The Lyapunov spectrum of weather models depends on the number of modes one includes. The number of days over which it's feasible to forecast weather depends on the largest Lyapunov exponent. You might look at J. Curry, Commun. Math. Phys. 60, 193 (1978). I hope that what you do for a living is less half-assed than your post. Science has some real problems; excessive politicization is certainly one of them. What you seem to cite as symptoms aren't. -- -Lukas Wagner wagner@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.uoknor.edu!botrusse From: srussell@ou.edu (Scott Russell) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Tue, 07 May 96 18:54:37 GMT Organization: University of Oklahoma Lines: 69 Message-ID: <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: botrusse.bio.uoknor.edu X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: biosci bionet.general:21524 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:945 bionet.cellbiol:4624 bionet.glycosci:664 bionet.biophysics:1943 bionet.molbio.ageing:2693 bionet.molbio.proteins:7816 bionet.neuroscience:13986 sci.med:122640 sci.research.careers:10148 talk.politics.medicine:51241 In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, "John E. Kuslich" wrote: >Bert Gold wrote: >> <<<>> > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. >> >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >> 'establishment'... >> >> >> Bert Gold >> San Francisco >> >> References > ><<> > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called >scientific research. > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > >Oh well... > >John E. Kuslich Now wait a minute. (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to warrant the conclusions that were made. (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. (3) "The Bell Curve" received almost unanimous negative reviews from scientists because measuring intelligence was treated as if: (a) we knew what intelligence was; (b) we could measure it reproducibly and accurately; and (c) that it is possible to any of this in a culturally neutral manner. Most were unimpressed by the numerous charts and graphs because underlying them, the science was weak and the "parameters" were meaningless. If the IQ test measures anything, it measures the ability of people to take IQ tests, and it is not even entirely reliable for that. Given the absence of compelling data, the book has a pernicious effect on society and its conclusions ignore too many societal effects on those measured. The use of "science" to achieve social ends based on race should doomed to fail because, this approach like Nazi "science," is not based on a single uncontested fact. ========================================================================= Scott D. Russell Internet: srussell@ou.edu Dept of Botany & Microbiology ->http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ & Noble Electron Microscopy Lab ->http://www.ou.edu/research/electron/ University of Oklahoma, Norman OK Phone: 1-405-325-6234 73019-0245 USA FAX: 1-405-325-7619 =========================================================================  From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!not-for-mail From: samuelc@max.roehampton.ac.uk (Samuel Cronin) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Living longer-living better Date: 7 May 1996 09:56:51 +0100 Lines: 47 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <4mn38j$4ls@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Fcc: outgoing Security: None Original-To: ageing@dl.ac.uk Type: External Classification: Certified here will be a three day conference titled 'Living Longer - Living Better' taking place at the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology (UMIST) from the 3rd to the 5th of July 1996. It will be hosted jointly by three British gerontological societies and will bring together researchers from all disciplines within gerontology including medical, social and biological. I have the most recent version of the programme and a random sampling of the speakers on the biology of ageing include Tom Kirkwood ('disposable soma'-genetic approaches to ageing) Anthony Cerami (glycation theory), J. Kroll (biomarkers of ageing and cell immotalization), Gordon Lithgow (Genetics of ageing of C. elegans), Schachter (genetics of longevity), Sydney Shall (progeroid syndromes), M. Linksens (telomere hypothesis of ageing)along with many others. I will be attending myself and wondering if anyone out there is either already going or would like to go. The early registration fee is (BP)155 although after 15 May it goes up a lot so register soon. If your interested in attending the contact for further information and registration is: Janet Adnams Tel: +44 161 200 40 80 email: janet.adnams@umist.ac.uk Accomodation in Manchester is quite reasonable and easy to get but if your on a shoe-string I might be able to help if you contact me off-list. If anyone on this group is going I'd be interested in meeting you there so let me know. Best regards, Sam Cronin [=========] \ / \:::::/ \:::/ ):( * Gerontologists make it last longer * / : \ / : \ /..:::..\ [=========] ~ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!usenet From: "John E. Kuslich" Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 15:12:42 -0600 Organization: CRAK Software Lines: 107 Message-ID: <318FBCCA.355B@indirect.com> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: s141.phxslip4.indirect.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) CC: news Xref: biosci bionet.general:21529 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:947 bionet.cellbiol:4627 bionet.glycosci:667 bionet.biophysics:1945 bionet.molbio.ageing:2695 bionet.molbio.proteins:7821 bionet.neuroscience:13989 sci.med:122659 sci.research.careers:10150 talk.politics.medicine:51247 Scott Russell wrote: > > In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, > "John E. Kuslich" wrote: > >Bert Gold wrote: > >> <<<>> > > > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. > >> > >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > >> 'establishment'... > >> > >> > >> Bert Gold > >> San Francisco > >> > >> References > > > ><<> > > > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > >scientific research. > > > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and > >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer > >simulation of weather. > > > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to > >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many > >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > > > >Oh well... > > > >John E. Kuslich > > Now wait a minute. > > (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as > possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to > warrant the conclusions that were made. I think you effectively illustrate attitudes that lead us to accept conclusions of and act upon "junk " science. I believe that if you examine the case for all three of the topics mentioned, you will be led to the inescapable conclusion that "Junk" science is alive and well. Some of these nutty ideas only gain popular acceptance because of the tendency for the liberal media to publicize them - they fit well into the environmentalist agenda. "Possibilities" don't necessarily merit action which will cause serious economic dislocations. The "Carbon Tax" comes to mind. > > (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending > forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior > of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be > unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. > You misstate my point. Chaos theory indicates quite convincingly that there are severe limits on the ability of computers to make long term weather predictions because we simply 1) can never model the physical weather interactions adequately, 2) we can never have enough knowledge of initial condidtions to put into our model to get long term results. We might as well put research money into perpetual motion. That was my point. > (3) "The Bell Curve" received almost unanimous negative reviews from > scientists because measuring intelligence was treated as if: (a) we knew what > intelligence was; (b) we could measure it reproducibly and accurately; and (c) > that it is possible to any of this in a culturally neutral manner. Most were > unimpressed by the numerous charts and graphs because underlying them, the > science was weak and the "parameters" were meaningless. If the IQ test > measures anything, it measures the ability of people to take IQ tests, and it > is not even entirely reliable for that. Given the absence of compelling data, > the book has a pernicious effect on society and its conclusions ignore > too many societal effects on those measured. The use of "science" to achieve > social ends based on race should doomed to fail because, this approach like > Nazi "science," is not based on a single uncontested fact. Gees. The point I was making is perfectly illustrated by your paragraph above. Real research and real science do not question the political implications of the truth. I don't know if the conclusions of this book are good ones or not. The point is, this kind of subject matter is avoided by science for politcal reasons. That can hardly be a method that will lead us to the truth!! It is like the Vatican criticizing fertility research based on it's position on birth control. If you don't do birth control research, you won't arrive at the truth as to which methods are effective. Similarly, if you cannot state certain hypothyses and examine the implications of such an hypothyses because they are not politically correct, then you are not doing science. Nazi science is as bad as un-Nazi science, or Vatican science or Zionist science or Environmentalist science. If it is limited in scope or subject for political reasons, it is not science. That was my point. > -- John E. Kuslich WPcrak for Wordperfect johnk@indirect.com WDcrak for MS Word Password Recovery EXcrak for MS Excel 602 863 9274 voice QPcrak for Quattro Pro 602 548 1993 fax LOcrak for Lotus 123 Password Removal QWcrak for Quicken Our WEB Site http://www.indirect.com/www/johnk/ >>>>>>>>You Hack'em, We CRAK'em<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!aol.com!EdKrug From: EdKrug@aol.com Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 7 May 1996 21:12:05 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 13 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <960508000825_486547669@emout17.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net I think if we examine John Kuslich's pride, which appears to be breaking copy protection on commercial software we can probably judge his ethics level and probably his trust of anyone who isn't John Kuslich. His comments on "The Bell Curve", global warming and the ozone hole shows how little he understands about the complexity of nature. His ability to pick the computer code lock some other human created is child's play by comparison. How funding agencies chose to allocate their time and resources may not be perfect but given the activity in which John seems to take such pride, he is in no position to criticize. The system of science and its funding is not perfect and some things may merit change but, RIGOR is not one of them; that way lies CHAOS. Edward C. Krug From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!tricia!uwvax!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!overload.lbl.gov!snowcrest!usenet From: Don Gilmer Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: specialized telephone Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 14:32:18 -0700 Organization: SnowCrest Net Lines: 9 Message-ID: <319112E2.1361@snowcrest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sl6.redding.snowcrest.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) I am trying to find a phone that can be programmed for single digit dialing that will also restrict the use of normal dialing. My aunt is in a board and care facility and has a private phone in her room. Having Alzheimer's she gets confused at times and calls emergency numbers, i.e. 911 ! Does a phone exist that can restrict normal dialing but allow speed dialing ? Please help point me in the right direction if you can. Thank you. Don Gilmer From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 8 May 1996 20:30:55 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21556 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:954 bionet.cellbiol:4644 bionet.biophysics:1955 bionet.molbio.ageing:2704 bionet.molbio.proteins:7839 bionet.neuroscience:14008 sci.med:122812 sci.research.careers:10168 talk.politics.medicine:51292 Dr. Deneke, If you bother to read Pauling, you will find that he not only advocated MEGAdose amounts of vitamin C, but was an ardent advocate of establishing a new RDA for ascorbate as well, based upon more controlled indicators than relief from scurvy; this is precisely the work which Levine et. al have now done, establishing a new RDA. The current study only establishes a new RDA for healthy, men non-smokers in their 20s. Dr. Pauling suggested that he thought anti-oxidant requirements would increase with increasing age. Levine et al. do not comment on this, or the RDA for women. Dr. Pauling suggested many other functions for Vitamin C than anti-oxidant effect: Few of these have been tested in the time which intervenes between his suggestions and now. It is notable that Dr. Levine did not cite Dr. Pauling or Dr. Szent-Gyorgyi in his PNAS publication. Further, in my telephone conversation with Dr. Levine last week, he admitted to me that funding at NIH for nutrition was "political". Bert Gold San Francisco : Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi are my heros too, but neither a conspiracy or : scientific incompetence is necessary to explain delays in jumping to recommend : large doses of vitamin C. In fact chemistry, physiology etc. of ascorbic acid : has been under intense investigation over the last several decades. It is well : known that ascorbate, under some conditions acts a a pro-oxidant rather than an : antioxidant. As for all nutritional additives it is extremely difficult to : determine whether consumption of high levels of the pure product may cause : toxic effects which are neutralized by other components present in the natural : food sources. Do large doses of ascorbate protect, deplete, or block induction : of other antioxidants? I can probably find instances of all of these effects : in the literature of the past 5 years. In short, its not that simple. Evidence : for multiple benefits from increasing dietary intake of ascorbate and other : antioxidants by increased consumption of fruits and vegetables is very : convincing. The health benefits of ingesting large levels of purified : antioxidants of any kind are proving harder to analyse. Unfortunately we are : not yet to the point where we can usefully micro-manage our nutrition. Take : megadoses of vitamins if you chose, at your own risk, but many of us would : prefer to keep on eating our fruits and veggies. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!zetnet.co.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!d-access.demon.co.uk From: user Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: *MEDLINE on the web* Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 15:06:52 +0100 Organization: Healthworks Ltd. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <3190AA7C.447@d-access.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d-access.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: d-access.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MEDLINE ON HEALTHWORKS ONLINE Healthworks now offers affordable access to MEDLINE. The largest single database of published medical literature in the world. 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Tel:+44 (0)113 234 6624 Fax:+44 (0)113 242 7782 email:info@d-access.demon.co.uk HEALTHWORKS ONLINE * NEW MEDLINE database, fully searchable, FREE test drive. * CD ROM Shop: browse our catalogue of Health and Medical CD ROM's * Digital Library: with Over 330 individual journals from 34 publishers. * Disabilities Access: FEATURING THE LATEST NEWS FROM DISABILITY NOW. * Newsletters: Read FREE sample copies of all our newsletters. http://www.healthworks.co.uk RING OUR CD-ROM CATALOGUE LINE ON +44(0)113 243 9899 TO GET YOUR FREE COPY. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!netnews.uthscsa.edu!usenet From: S. Deneke Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 8 May 1996 17:01:43 GMT Organization: UTHSCSA Lines: 154 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneke.uthscsa.edu X-Newsreader: Xref: biosci bionet.general:21550 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:952 bionet.cellbiol:4639 bionet.glycosci:673 bionet.biophysics:1952 bionet.molbio.ageing:2702 bionet.molbio.proteins:7836 bionet.neuroscience:14004 sci.med:122778 sci.research.careers:10166 talk.politics.medicine:51285 In article , Bert Gold writes: >April 22, 1996 > >Walking back from the bank to the hospital today I was prompted to >buy several large juicy navel oranges. I've been eyeing oranges for many >weeks now, but my wife and I have a long standing disagreement about >who picks the best ones. I thought the oranges she chose at a fruit >stand, just outside Half Moon Bay yesterday, were puny; she again >suggested I always pick the oversized, dried up ones. >Today, though, my oranges were winners: Sweet, juicy and large; >just the way I like them. > >In the news the past several days, as you've probably heard, Vitamin C >requirements (RDAs, Required Daily Allowance, set by the National Research >Council, the nation's highest scientific authority) for adult males have >been revalued upward. Not modestly either: But three-fold, and still >the upper limit is poorly defined. It seems an intramural researcher >at NIH finally got the funding go ahead to do some of the experiments >which Linus Pauling and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi always longed to do >before the end of their lives, but were denied funding for. > >It is notable that in this latest work (1), seven men in their twenties >were fed increasing doses of Vitamin C after being starved for >it in their diet. Although they never showed signs of scurvy, >each volunteer did report feeling uncomfortable when deprived >of Vitamin C. The NIH authors note that because the subjects >of their study were young men in their 20's, the results are >limited to this subject group. > >The vivid image of Szent-Gyorgyi standing in front of Whitman Auditorium >in Woods Hole holding a bottle of glyoxyl in one hand and Vitamin C >in the other is permanently etched in my memory. I'll not easily >forget the hypothesis of 'radical scavenging' which Szent-Gyorgyi >put to us that day: He said that he and Pauling had been talking >about the central importance of OXYGEN in human metabolism >and explained that he had been concerned for a good deal of time about >reactions generating singlet oxygen. These, produced in abundance >during mitochondrial "charge transfer" in liver parenchyma, and other >aerobically active tissues, must absorb electrons pairwise in order to >avoid causing damage. > >In 1931, Pauling discovered the superoxide radical, which, though >produced in minute quantities as an unwanted byproduct of oxidative >phosphorylation, has enormous destructive capacity if not defused (2). >During lectures given at UC Berkeley in the 80s, Pauling paid >tribute to the remarkable specificity of the enzymatic system that >neutralizes it: Superoxide dismutase; at the same time, however, >he noted that this enzyme does not defuse the lesser, but still significant >intracellular destructive capacity of singlet oxygen or the hydroxide radical >(and unkown to him at the time, the NO radical). > >Superoxide dismutase transforms superoxide radicals to peroxide which can >then be eliminated as water after the action of peroxidase and catalase. >But what is the body to do with all the unpaired electrons such a process >would generate? Szent-Gyorgyi told that oxygen itself could absorb unpaired >electrons if only it were conjugated to carbon in the form of a double >carbonyl: the simplest such compound being glyoxyl, commonly found in human >liver, for this compound had sufficient electron delocalization to provide >something of an electron sink. And, the supply of glyoxyl is renewable >through the action of the glutathione-S-tranferase system, present in >liver mitochondria. Further, Szent-Gyorgyi told us excitedly, two >englishmen and a german, H.D. Dakin, H.W. Dudley and C. Neuberg had, in >1913 discovered that methylated-glyoxyl could be transformed to a potent >energy source itself, lactic acid, through the action of glyoxylase, >which they discovered in that year. So, in one fell swoop, Szent-Gyorgyi >had connected for us the relationship between oxygen radical and one >carbon metabolism. I promise I will discuss this relationship in the >next few weeks, when I write another essay, tentatively titled, >Folic Acid and I. > >In comments honoring Szent-Gyorgyi on the occasion of his 82nd >birthday, Linus Pauling recalled Vitamin C's discovery by Szent-Gyorgyi >in 1928. Pauling noted that Szent-Gyorgyi had written in 1939 (4) that >although organisms were generally well adapted to their surroundings, >that the destruction of the natural environment endangered that >adapatation. "I have a strong faith in the perfection of the human >body", Szent-Gyorgyi wrote in 1939, "and I think that vitamins are an >important factor in its coordination with its surroundings. Vitamins, >if properly understood and applied, will help us to reduce human suffering >to an extent which the most fantastic mind would fail to imagine." (3) > >On the day that I met him in Woods Hole, Szent-Gyorgyi told us he and Pauling >(three Nobel prizes) between them suggested that significant increases >in Vitamin C intake were almost certainly required by an adult body, >perhaps especially at times when oxygen production was increased. >Szent-Gyorgyi had insisted in a book he had written two years before, >that Vitamin C, especially when complexed with manganese in >the presence of oxygen, could synthesize a free radical form, as well and as >easily as it could form a dehydroascorbate, oxidized form in the >presence of copper or iron and in alliance with an enzyme he'd >discovered in plants in 1931 and named 'ascorbic acid oxidase.' >Szent-Gyorgyi insisted that it was in some sense the equilibrium between >the various oxidized and reduced forms of ascorbate which provided its >multifarious activities. > >And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >has been adjusted three-fold upward. > >It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >'establishment'... > >The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died >without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final >nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about >our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this >country. > >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in >making decision about what to and what not to study. > >Bert Gold >San Francisco > >References > >(1) Levine, M.; Conry-Cantilena, C.; Wang, Y.; Welch, R.W.; Washko, P.W.; >Dhariwal, K.R.; Park, J.B.; Lazarev, A.; Graumlich, J.G., King, J.; >Cantilena, L.R. (1996) Vitamin C pharmacokinetics in healthy >volunteers: Evidence for a recommended dietary allowance. >Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA; 93, 3704-3709. > >(2) Marinacci, B. (1995) Linus Pauling in His Own Words, New York, Simon & >Shuster. > >(3) Kaminer, B., ed. (1977) Search and Discovery, A tribute to Albert >Szent-Gyorgyi, New York, Academic Press. > >(4) Szent-Gyorgyi, A. (1939) On Oxidation, Fermentation, Vitamins, Health >and Disease. Baltimore, Williams and Wilkins. > > Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi are my heros too, but neither a conspiracy or scientific incompetence is necessary to explain delays in jumping to recommend large doses of vitamin C. In fact chemistry, physiology etc. of ascorbic acid has been under intense investigation over the last several decades. It is well known that ascorbate, under some conditions acts a a pro-oxidant rather than an antioxidant. As for all nutritional additives it is extremely difficult to determine whether consumption of high levels of the pure product may cause toxic effects which are neutralized by other components present in the natural food sources. Do large doses of ascorbate protect, deplete, or block induction of other antioxidants? I can probably find instances of all of these effects in the literature of the past 5 years. In short, its not that simple. Evidence for multiple benefits from increasing dietary intake of ascorbate and other antioxidants by increased consumption of fruits and vegetables is very convincing. The health benefits of ingesting large levels of purified antioxidants of any kind are proving harder to analyse. Unfortunately we are not yet to the point where we can usefully micro-manage our nutrition. Take megadoses of vitamins if you chose, at your own risk, but many of us would prefer to keep on eating our fruits and veggies. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 8 May 1996 01:15:55 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 91 Message-ID: <4moskb$14rs@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21531 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:950 bionet.cellbiol:4630 bionet.glycosci:669 bionet.biophysics:1948 bionet.molbio.ageing:2697 bionet.molbio.proteins:7824 bionet.neuroscience:13993 sci.med:122692 sci.research.careers:10155 talk.politics.medicine:51252 Mr. Kuslich's suggestion that science can somehow be cleansed of human values and thus be made more pure is a misunderstanding of what science is and does. Science is a human endeavor. As such it manifests all of the frailties and foibles of any deeply human undertaking. It cannot be politically 'cleansed' of value: Further, why would you want to? Science, as practiced, should be ethical. It should aspire to revere its creators, not dimish them. Bronowski and Pauling wrote eloquently on these points. Pauling always suggested that the goal of science was clearly to diminish human suffering. That is why he was awarded a Nobel Prize in Peace; for helping to orchestrate the Test Ban Treaty; it is also notable that he was blacklisted, and almost indicted for treason for that very same cause. Science is political. But it should not be guided solely by a political agenda: That is why it has (for the last couple of hundred years) been done mostly at Universities, where tenure (an archaic, but important system for guarding unpopular ideas) has been guaranteed. Tenure is not perfect, witness the case of Paul Simmelweiss, who died a pauper in the streets of Vienna for having the audacity to suggest that surgeons should wash themselves between autopsy and entering the operating theatre. No, tenure is not perfect, but it is better than nothing.... We are now, in the process, in this country, of doing away with all that! Humanistic science, tenure, Universities (as sanctuaries for learning) are all being destroyed. Won't you who are criticizing the blind alleys into which science inevitably goes admit your own imperfection: So that you can help to save a tradition of inquiry which, although imperfect, used to be credible, ethical and respectable. That was my goal in writing this essay: To acknowledge that we have lost something if we do not clearly respect the humility of our own enterprise of discovery. And perhaps the most important sense of humility we have lost is the recognition that Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi (and Bronowski) were GIANTS! And now, we stand deeply impoverished by their loss and wonder whether life has any meaning at all, or shall we just all toss it in, and let a bunch of robots, without a political agenda, proceed on their own path toward discovery. A path which clearly does not lead to a world which combines 'Science and Human Values', the title of one of Bronowski's books, but leads to knowledge of, by and for a world of robots. Such a vision feels to me more out of the tradition of Asimov or Bradbury, than that of Pauling, Szent-Gyorgyi or Bronowski. Though all five of these authors manifest some kind of genius, the latter three were clearly of this earth. The former two spent a good deal of their time on what I think was a lesser planet, one of their own creation. Bert Gold San Francisco Dima Klenchin (klenchin@macc.wisc.edu) wrote: : In article , : Bert Gold wrote: : Newsgroups: : >bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bi : >onet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience : >,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine : >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer : >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in : >making decision about what to and what not to study. : Judging by the number of newsgroups crossposted, Bert Gold fully qualifies : as spammer... : :-)) Just kidding : Seriously: Dr. Gold has obviously very strong opinion on the subject. The : Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair : is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? : - Dima From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!not-for-mail From: hrubin@b.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 7 May 1996 20:29:21 -0500 Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4motdh$3mfi@b.stat.purdue.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b.stat.purdue.edu Xref: biosci bionet.general:21530 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:949 bionet.cellbiol:4629 bionet.glycosci:668 bionet.biophysics:1947 bionet.molbio.ageing:2696 bionet.molbio.proteins:7823 bionet.neuroscience:13991 sci.med:122684 sci.research.careers:10154 talk.politics.medicine:51251 In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, John E. Kuslich wrote: >Bert Gold wrote: >> <<<>> >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >> 'establishment'... ................. >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. That we cannot predict the precise time at which rain will start, or things to that effect, does not mean that we cannot learn by judicious use of simulation. Choas theory tells us that exactly what will happen is very sensitive to initial conditions, but that we cannot tell exactly where that tornado will strike is no reason not to give a tornado warning. ................... -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (317)494-6054 FAX: (317)494-0558 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!pixie.tridom.com!usenet From: mp@eng.tridom.com (Mike Pitcher) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 8 May 1996 18:50:19 GMT Organization: AT&T Tridom Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4mqqdb$rfp@pixie.tridom.com> References: Reply-To: mp@eng.tridom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: yah.eng.tridom.com Xref: biosci bionet.general:21554 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:953 bionet.cellbiol:4641 bionet.glycosci:674 bionet.biophysics:1954 bionet.molbio.ageing:2703 bionet.molbio.proteins:7837 bionet.neuroscience:14005 sci.med:122791 sci.research.careers:10167 talk.politics.medicine:51290 I agree that the priorities may need a little adjusting and that the research funding process is not perfect. Since human health and well-being is such an important (and expensive) activity one would think that it would get top priority. Oh well. For what it's worth, let me share what I have found by trial and error. I live in Atlanta which is an area not particularly friendly to allergy sufferers. For 20 years, I would get respiratory problems two times a year (spring and fall) that would start with sore throat, coughing, sometimes leading to runny nose, watery eyes, occasionally sinus problems, etc. The Drs would inevitably prescribe an antibiotic and maybe cough syrup (if cough was a problem), Seldane, pseudephedrine hydrochloride (wasn't good for my BP), or whatever. Well, last year, I had enough of this crap. No fault of the Drs, but I decided to try vit C. Starting with 1000mg dose (500mg twice a day) last fall and now am down to 500mg once a day. The usual fall and spring resp. problems never appeared. I got a few sniffles, but *nothing* compared to what I usually get. No change in work conditions, same house, same car, etc. Only significant change (besides another yr older and a raise :-) ), is the vit C. Coincidence? I think not. Bottom line is, I think the RDA is totally out of whack. There needs to be a *lot* more research done with vitamins in general and focus on what it takes to make people function properly, rather than try to fix what's broken. Seems I remember an adage: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How true. Mike Pitcher email: mp@eng.tridom.com From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!alpha1.csd.uwm.edu!not-for-mail From: eric@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Eric Albert Johnson) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 8 May 1996 15:30:45 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mqen5$ruc@uwm.edu> References: <960508000825_486547669@emout17.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.169.1 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] EdKrug@aol.com wrote: : I think if we examine John Kuslich's pride, which appears to be breaking : copy protection on commercial software we can probably judge his ethics level : and probably his trust of anyone who isn't John Kuslich. His comments on : "The Bell Curve", global warming and the ozone hole shows how little he : understands about the complexity of nature. His ability to pick the computer : code lock some other human created is child's play by comparison. How : funding agencies chose to allocate their time and resources may not be : perfect but given the activity in which John seems to take such pride, he is : in no position to criticize. : : The system of science and its funding is not perfect and some things may : merit change but, RIGOR is not one of them; that way lies CHAOS. : Edward C. Krug Reread his tagline before off-topic ripping him. He is not "breaking copy protection on commercial software" as you say, but providing software for breaking passwords on data files. The commercial programs listed encrypt data with a user password, that is sometimes forgotten by the user (amazing heh?). Even if someone uses his program for unethical purposes, this reflects on the ethics of the user, and not Mr. Kuslich's ethical judgement. BTW: Everybody is in a position to criticize. (geez, I thought everybody knew that, or are you telling us what to think?) From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!usenet From: Richard Kondo Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 09:37:27 -0700 Organization: UCLA Lines: 119 Message-ID: <3190CDC7.28B1@ephys.ucla.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> <318FBCCA.355B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.142.108.200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (WinNT; I) Xref: biosci bionet.general:21548 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:951 bionet.cellbiol:4637 bionet.glycosci:672 bionet.biophysics:1950 bionet.molbio.ageing:2701 bionet.molbio.proteins:7833 bionet.neuroscience:14003 sci.med:122769 sci.research.careers:10165 talk.politics.medicine:51283 John E. Kuslich wrote: > > Scott Russell wrote: > > > > In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, > > "John E. Kuslich" wrote: > > >Bert Gold wrote: > > >> <<<>> > > > > > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > > >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > > >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. > > >> > > >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > > >> 'establishment'... > > >> > > >> > > >> Bert Gold > > >> San Francisco > > >> > > >> References > > > > > ><<> > > > > > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > > >scientific research. > > > > > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and > > >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer > > >simulation of weather. > > > > > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to > > >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many > > >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > > > > > >Oh well... > > > > > >John E. Kuslich > > > > Now wait a minute. > > > > (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as > > possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to > > warrant the conclusions that were made. > > I think you effectively illustrate attitudes that lead us to accept conclusions of and act upon > "junk " science. I believe that if you examine the case for all three of the topics > mentioned, you will be led to the inescapable conclusion that "Junk" science is alive and well. > Some of these nutty ideas only gain popular acceptance because of the tendency for the liberal > media to publicize them - they fit well into the environmentalist agenda. Theories such as 'global warming' and the 'ozone hole' do not fall in the same category as 'cold fusion'. Science is driven by hypotheses and theories, and the history of science is replete with the rise and fall of many theories. There is ongoing debate about the merits of the ones you mention, in which many scientists support the ideas and some do not. Obviously, you do not agree with the conclusions, but you present no data to buttress your point. You just summarily dismiss the theories and the atmospheric studies regarding them as 'junk' science. > "Possibilities" don't necessarily merit action which will cause serious economic dislocations. > The "Carbon Tax" comes to mind. Sounds as if you have a political agenda as well. > > (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending > > forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior > > of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be > > unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. > > > > You misstate my point. > > Chaos theory indicates quite convincingly that there are severe limits on the ability of > computers to make long term weather predictions because we simply 1) can never model the > physical weather interactions adequately, 2) we can never have enough knowledge of initial > condidtions to put into our model to get long term results. We might as well put research > money into perpetual motion. That was my point. Attempting to predict the weather in Fargo, North Dakota at any particular time is entirely different from making estimations about changes in the average global temperature and other parameters. Different differential equations are involved in these two probelms. Chaos theory is relevant in the first problem, not the second. And, are you suggesting that all the work being done to increase the speed of computers for simulations of air flow over a wing, nuclear explosions, dynamics of molecules, (the list goes on) is a waste of money and time? Finally, While I share Dr. Gold's concern regarding how decisions are made regarding science grant dollars (my future in science depends in part on it), I do not believe that the example he cites, sufficiently supports the idea of 'brazen inefficiency' in science which might be easily remedied. The history of science is erratic - some ideas find acceptance easily and rapidly and are eventually found to be wrong, as some ideas are accepted slowly - supported only by a few people working alone (how long did it take for the notion that proton gradients across the mitochondrial membrane drive ATP synthesis to be accepted, many years in the wilderness did Mitchell work). Human factors such as 'politics', 'who is a friend of who,' etc. undoubtedly, affect what ideas are accepted and pursued, but I doubt that the 'system' can be anything more than tweaked with regards its efficiency in the pursuit of the 'truth'. The problem, as I see it, is that there appears to be many more scientists chasing fewer dollars. However, this is not the same problem as scientific efficiency. Richard Kondo Cardiovascular Research Lab UCLA From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU!koudinov From: koudinov@MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU ("Alexei R. Koudinov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: position Date: 8 May 1996 21:21:23 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 41 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <9605090418.AA24397@mchip00.med.nyu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net 8-9 May 1996 = 51st anniversary of the end of Second World War Dear AGEING subscribers: I am a postdoctoral fellow in the laboratory of Dr. Blas Frangione in the Department of Pathology, NYU Medical Center, working on the biochemistry of amyloid beta, the protein implicated as the major pathological and immunohistochemical marker of Alzheimer's disease. I began to study this subject in 1992, at the time when it was becoming clear that amyloid beta exists normally in a soluble form (soluble Ab) and that it is not just a pathological protein. My research activities yielded an ongoing project, devoted to understanding in more detail the normal biology of soluble Ab. My current postdoctoral position will expire in July, 1996. Thus, to continue my research I have to find another position. I would be happy to consider any offer or for letting me know about open position(s). Sincerely Yours, Alexei R. Koudinov, M.D., Ph.D. E.mail: koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu and/or: koudin@imb.imb.ac.ru P.S. C.V. is available upon request or at: http://werple.mira.net.au/~dhs/cv.html. Alexei R. Koudinov, Ph.D. koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU!koudinov From: koudinov@MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU ("Alexei R. Koudinov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: position Date: 8 May 1996 21:59:37 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 41 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <9605090456.AA25314@mchip00.med.nyu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net 8-9 May 1996 = 51st anniversary of the end of Second World War Dear AGEING subscribers: I am a postdoctoral fellow in the laboratory of Dr. Blas Frangione in the Department of Pathology, NYU Medical Center, working on the biochemistry of amyloid beta, the protein implicated as the major pathological and immunohistochemical marker of Alzheimer's disease. I began to study this subject in 1992, at the time when it was becoming clear that amyloid beta exists normally in a soluble form (soluble Ab) and that it is not just a pathological protein. My research activities yielded an ongoing project, devoted to understanding in more detail the normal biology of soluble Ab. My current postdoctoral position will expire in July, 1996. Thus, to continue my research I have to find another position. I would be happy to consider any offer or for letting me know about open position(s). Sincerely Yours, Alexei R. Koudinov, M.D., Ph.D. E.mail: koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu and/or: koudin@imb.imb.ac.ru P.S. C.V. is available upon request or at: http://werple.mira.net.au/~dhs/cv.html. Alexei R. Koudinov, Ph.D. koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU!koudinov From: koudinov@MCHIP00.MED.NYU.EDU ("Alexei R. Koudinov") Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: position Date: 8 May 1996 22:31:38 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 41 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <9605090528.AA26086@mchip00.med.nyu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net 8-9 May 1996 = 51st anniversary of the end of Second World War Dear AGEING subscribers: I am a postdoctoral fellow in the laboratory of Dr. Blas Frangione in the Department of Pathology, NYU Medical Center, working on the biochemistry of amyloid beta, the protein implicated as the major pathological and immunohistochemical marker of Alzheimer's disease. I began to study this subject in 1992, at the time when it was becoming clear that amyloid beta exists normally in a soluble form (soluble Ab) and that it is not just a pathological protein. My research activities yielded an ongoing project, devoted to understanding in more detail the normal biology of soluble Ab. My current postdoctoral position will expire in July, 1996. Thus, to continue my research I have to find another position. I would be happy to consider any offer or for letting me know about open position(s). Sincerely Yours, Alexei R. Koudinov, M.D., Ph.D. E.mail: koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu and/or: koudin@imb.imb.ac.ru P.S. C.V. is available upon request or at: http://werple.mira.net.au/~dhs/cv.html. Alexei R. Koudinov, Ph.D. koudinov@mchip00.med.nyu.edu From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!not-for-mail From: ghconkli@bessel.nando.net (Gconklin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 9 May 1996 06:43:21 -0400 Organization: Nando.Net Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4msi89$jt9@bessel.nando.net> References: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bessel.nando.net Xref: biosci bionet.general:21568 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:957 bionet.cellbiol:4649 bionet.glycosci:676 bionet.biophysics:1958 bionet.molbio.ageing:2709 bionet.molbio.proteins:7845 bionet.neuroscience:14017 sci.med:122897 sci.research.careers:10178 talk.politics.medicine:51311 In article <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) writes: +Dr. Deneke, + + +Further, in my telephone conversation with Dr. Levine last week, +he admitted to me that funding at NIH for nutrition was "political". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +Bert Gold +San Francisco + + Steve believes, Bert, that all his political statments are true science. If Pauling can be as severely criticized as he was, then anyone can. Rational research into vitamins and other foods which cannot be patented and sold on prescription will be ridiculed by the medical-industrial establishment forever. If the medical establishment could ridicule the germ theory of disease for years and years, it can ridicule anyting....and will. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!sangam!iitb!powai!powai.cc.iitb.ernet.in!mmrajan From: "Dr.M.M.Rajan" Subject: CHECKING Sender: news@powai.cc.iitb.ernet.in (news system user) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:20:21 GMT Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Organization: Computer Centre, Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay Lines: 1 From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!newshub.csu.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!xmission!news.cc.utah.edu!howard!patrick From: Patrick Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:24:20 -0600 Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: howard.genetics.utah.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: patrick@howard In-Reply-To: <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> Xref: biosci bionet.general:21587 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:962 bionet.cellbiol:4665 bionet.glycosci:682 bionet.biophysics:1963 bionet.molbio.ageing:2711 bionet.molbio.proteins:7849 bionet.neuroscience:14037 sci.med:123063 sci.research.careers:10198 talk.politics.medicine:51360 On 7 May 1996, Bert Gold wrote: > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > >scientific research. > > > The ozone hole is quite real. You might look up articles by Sherwood > Rowland written in the last 10 years if you don't believe me, or if > you have qualms about the quality of the research. The evidence > on global warming is mixed to the best of my knowledge. > I believe that the basis for the conclusions is careful work on ice cores. > Why you put either of these in the same category as cold fusion > is beyond me; perhaps you can cite review articles in real journals > that indicate the poor quality of the science? Yeah...any article published by "scientists" working for the petroleum industry or for any company involved in production of CFCs. As an (big) aside, I have a major problem with scientists who go to work for such companies unless their role is simply to produce a new product or process. Beyond that, industry has no place in determining if what they WANT to produce (or already produce) is harmful to people or the environment. It is fiscally bad policy for a company scientist to produce any data that is contrary to the desires of the corporate heads and top shareholders. OK, now that I got that off my chest, back to our normal programming. patrick From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!FREENET.COLUMBUS.OH.US!sramage From: sramage@FREENET.COLUMBUS.OH.US (Sheryl Ramage) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: sign off Date: 10 May 1996 11:50:08 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 6 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4mv7hl$c6t@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net HI, Can anyone please tell me how to sign off the list. Thank you From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Fri May 10 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!svc.portal.com!portal.com!cup.portal.com!Floyd_-_Meyer From: Floyd_-_Meyer@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 11 May 1996 08:20:05 -0700 Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 31 Sender: pccop@unix.portal.com Distribution: world Message-ID: <152000@cup.portal.com> References: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: news1.unix.portal.com Xref: biosci bionet.general:21603 bionet.molbio.ageing:2715 While free radicals that are tearing our cell apart are electrical nuteral but chemically active, could the electric charge on the earth have been different from time to time. Since like electric charges repell each other, could there be a static voltage that would offset the chemical activity of the free radicals? I ask this because there seems to be tales of a giant electric discharge between the earth and an approaching cosmic device (some believe it was Mars). To do this would take a vast difference of electrical potential between the two. At this time the earth and Mars seem to be about the same potential. There is some thought that during the period(s) of time between the extinction(s) and the flood(s) which (may have) followed, the static potential on the earth was different due ti a band of ice crystals that formed and eventuall produced the flood(s). The electric charge would build up due to the cosmic radiation splitting the water molecules and the hydrogen atoms escaping into the cosmos. This would provide the early earth oxygen also. I am of the opinion that if the oxygen supply waited for the plants to develop photosynthesis, then "GOD" must have done it because the "Water Clock" that the plants use (it takes 4 light photons to break one water molecule) is far too complicated to have happened by chance. If between the last extinction and the last flood, people lived longer and evolution bloomed, it may have been due in part to a different static electric charge than we have now. Floyd From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!CS.Arizona.EDU!noao!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!gatech!udel!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.ACO.net!mail.boku.ac.at!news From: Iain Wilson Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:57:28 -0700 Organization: Universität für Bodenkultur Wien Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31977808.7C1B@edv1.boku.ac.at> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4motdh$3mfi@b.stat.purdue.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.244.58.101 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) CC: dnoche@shell.wco.com, pats@sco.com, patrick@howard.genetics.utah.edu, rkondo@ephys.ucla.edu, ghconkli@bessel.nando.net, mp@eng.tridom.com, S.Deneke@dl.ac.uk, srussell@ou.edu, johnk@indirect.com Xref: biosci bionet.general:21637 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:971 bionet.cellbiol:4683 bionet.biophysics:1983 bionet.molbio.ageing:2716 bionet.molbio.proteins:7875 bionet.neuroscience:14072 sci.med:123473 sci.research.careers:10237 talk.politics.medicine:51508 To all those whom it may concern: PLEASE DO NOT CROSSPOST THIS 'PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME' THREAD TO BIONET.GLYCOSCI. Please check the reply headers before promiscuously sending irrelevant posts to specialist newsgroups. Bionet.glycosci is meant as a place for professional discussions of glycoconjugate structure, function and analysis - and Vitamin C / ascorbate is not a glycoconjugate!! I am sure that some other bionet newsgroups listed are also not the place for the present discussion. I have already requested the first three posters individually to not cross-post and it appears that they have abided by this request, but another 15 or so posts on the subject were clogging up the newsgroup this morning. Therefore I am making this request to all the other newsgroups listed in the header for these posts (as well as the latest contributors to the thread) so as to make a pre-emptive request. I thank you in advance for your co-operation, Dr. Iain Wilson co-discussion leader glycosci newsgroup -- Iain Wilson Institut fuer Chemie Tel: 43-1-47654-6065 Universitaet fuer Bodenkultur Fax: 43-1-310-5176 Gregor-Mendel-Strasse 33 E-mail: wilson@edv1.boku.ac.at A-1180, WIEN, Austria From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 20 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Geron Corp. Date: 20 May 1996 18:59:10 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 45 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Price Waterhouse LLP Venture Capital Survey Investee Company Geron Corporation Menlo Park, CA Industry: Biotechnology Company stage of development: Early Business Description: Geron is pioneering the understanding of the mechanisms of cellular aging and immortalization. Amount of Round: $8,700,000 Type of financing: Fourth & Beyond Investors: Domain Partners II L.P. Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers (Menlo Park-CA) Frazier Healthcare Investments LP Venrock Associates (New York-NY) _________________________________________________________________ Home Search Whats New Disclaimer FAQ Home Search Whats New Disclaimer FAQ Last updated 04/19/96. From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 20 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Geron Grants Date: 20 May 1996 19:02:44 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 86 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net _________________________________________________________________ Geron Awarded Grants of $2.4 Million to Help Develop Telomerase-Based Cancer Drugs and Diagnostics; Research is Focused on "Immortalizing Enzyme" in Tumor Cells Source: Business Wire MENLO PARK, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE) via NewsPage -- Geron Corporation today announced that it has been awarded research grants of approximately $2.4 million to assist in the development of new cancer therapeutic and diagnostic products based on telomerase -- an "immortalizing enzyme" that has been shown to be active in many different kinds of cancer. The funding organizations include: the National Cancer Institute (NCI), as part of the National Cooperative Drug Discovery Group (NCDDG) program; the California Breast Cancer Research Program, and the Small Business Innovative Research (SBIR) Program. The NCI funding will be used to establish an NCDDG collaboration between Geron, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC) and its affiliate--Sloan-Kettering Institute for Cancer Research, and the NCI, with the goal of identifying and developing a telomerase inhibitor for treating a broad spectrum of human malignancies. The $2 million, five-year NCDDG grant will be shared by Geron and Memorial Sloan-Kettering as they work together to develop a lead telomerase inhibitor for eventual testing in humans. Geron and its academic collaborators have identified telomerase as a highly specific and nearly universal marker for cancer, with an apparently essential genetic function for immortal cells, making it a promising target for anti-tumor therapeutics. Research published to date on telomerase has shown that the enzyme is present in the vast majority of malignant cancer samples examined, but is not found in the normal tissues from which those cancers arose -- suggesting that telomerase inhibition may be a widely effective therapeutic approach, with potentially limited effects. Geron's role in the NCDDG will be to discover and optimize new chemical entities directed against telomerase. The company will also test the resulting lead compound in human tumor cell lines. Memorial Sloan-Kettering, a leading center both in cancer research and therapy, will apply its expertise to studies that extend the understanding of the role of telomerase in cell and animal models of malignancy. The NCI will support the NCDDG by providing chemistry, pharmacology and other technical expertise for facilitating the drug discovery process. The second grant, awarded to Geron by the California Breast Cancer Research Program, focused on the development of diagnostic tests for breast cancer based on telomerase expression in malignant cells. This grant provides funding in the amount of $228,000 over a two-year period. The third grant, awarded to Geron by the Small Business Innovative Research (SBIR) program, supports the development of highly sensitive telomerase assays as potential cancer diagnostic and prognostic products. These assays will be used to detect the presence of immortalized cells in breast, colon, prostate and bladder cancer specimens. The company was awarded a six-month Phase I SBIR grant in the amount of $96,000 to develop its telomerase-based diagnostic and prognostic assays. Geron Corporation, a privately-held company founded in 1992, is applying its understanding of the genomics of aging to the development of novel drugs primarily for the treatment of age-related diseases, including cancer. Specifically, the company's research programs seek to restore normal function in aging cells, and to induce tumor cell death by inhibiting telomerase -- an enzyme thought to be responsible for the immortality of cancer cells. Geron has raised $31.1 million to date in private equity financings. CONTACT: Geron Corporation | Jeryl Hilleman, 415/473-7700 | or | StratiPoint Group, Inc. | Carole Melis, 415/326-0420 [09-13-95 at 10:17 EDT, Business Wire] contact: Business Wire From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 20 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Geron: Anti-Aging Objective Date: 20 May 1996 19:05:33 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 170 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net GERON CORPORATION 200 CONSTITUTION DRIVE MENLO PARK, CA 94025 (415)476-7700 FAX (415)476-7750 Chief Executive: Ronald W. Eastman Presenter: Richard T. Haiduck COMPANY PROFILE Founder: Michael D. West Date Established: March, 1992 Legal Form: Corporation Stage of Development: Pre-Clinical CORPORATE OVERVIEW Geron Corporation is the first biopharmaceutical company to focus exclusively on the development of therapeutic (and diagnostic) products for age-related diseases based on new molecular insights into the molecular and cellular mechanisms of aging. Age-related diseases, such as cancer, atherosclerosis, senile dementia, and benign prostatic hyperplasia are often extremely debilitating or terminal, with few effective therapeutic modalities. The significance of these diseases to the population and to health care costs is dramatic and increasing rapidly. In fact, the over-85 population is expected to triple over the next forty years, and increase sevenfold over the next sixty years. Geron's approach to the treatment of age-related diseases differs from traditional pharmaceutical intervention in that it has targeted the fundamental molecular causes of these diseases, rather than merely the symptoms. TECHNOLOGY OVERVIEW Geron's ability to address a diversity of age-related disease states is based on recent insights into the biological mechanisms of cellular aging -- and conversely, into the process by which cancer cells escape "aging" by becoming "immortal." Recent research indicates that aging results, in large part, from genetic determinants that operate in all dividing cells throughout the body. Geron and its collaborators have pioneered the understanding of this genetic "clock" of cellular aging, and believe that many diseases of aging are due primarily to genetically programmed senescence of cells in the various bodily tissues. At the opposite extreme, the age-related disease of cancer is due to the failure of cells to senesce owing to mutations that confer replicative immortality. Discovery and Development Programs Geron's research and development programs are based upon proprietary technology in two complementary areas: Reversal of Cell Immortality (telomerase inhibition), and Modulation of Cell Senescence (delay senescence and reverse senescent gene expression). In each area the company has acquired or developed proprietary approaches including patents, exclusive collaborations with major academic groups (with licensing rights), and special expertise. GERON CORPORATION Reversal of Cell Immortality The Company's Telomerase Inhibition program is focused on converting immortalized cancer cells into mortal cells which subsequently will die. A telomerase inhibitor would cause the cancer cells to die, typically after a relatively small number of additional replication cycles. Normal tissues, which generally lack telomerase, should be unaffected by such inhibitors. Telomerase inhibitors should therefore be associated with few or no side effects, and yet be clinically efficacious against most advanced cancers. Modulation of Cell Senescence Geron's Senescent Gene Expression program is directed toward modulating cell senescence through two approaches: Delay Cell Senescence It should be possible to delay or reduce age-related pathology by extending cell proliferation beyond the expected number of cell divisions. Geron is designing proprietary assays and screens to discover means to increase telomere length and hence increase the replicative lifespan of cells. Reverse Senescent Gene Expression Regulation of senescent gene expression should overcome the negative effects of senescent gene expression to treat age-related diseases. Geron has developed and is applying a proprietary screen using unique senescent markers to screen for compounds reversing senescence. In addition, Geron has developed a high throughput genetic analysis technique which already has enabled the Company to identify over forty novel gene tags which are specific to either young or senescent genes. These discoveries may lead to therapeutics which regulate or compensate for a specific gene expression change, or means to intervene with the overall regulatory mechanisms of senescent gene expression. While this broad-based platform technology can be applied to a variety of age-related diseases, current efforts are directed toward cutaneous aging and vascular disease. CURRENT CORPORATE PARTNERS None POTENTIAL PARTNERSHIPS OPPORTUNITIES Cutaneous skin aging Vascular disease, including atherosclerosis Management Team Ronald W. Eastman: President and Chief Executive Officer, spent fifteen years at American Cyanamid, most recently, as a vice president and general manager of Lederle Laboratories. Calvin Harley, Ph.D.: Vice President, Research, formerly served as a member of Geron's scientific advisory board. Dr. Harley was on the faculty at McMaster University, and is the discoverer of some of the molecular pathways regulating cell aging and immortalization. Richard T. Haiduck: Vice President, Corporate Development, brings to Geron 17 years of health are management experience primarily with Abbott Laboratories. Jeryl L. Hilleman: Vice President, Finance and Administration, brings both pharmaceutical and financial services experience, including Cytel Corporation, Merck & Co., and Fidelity Investments. Kevin R. Kaster: Vice President, Intellectual Properties and Chief Patent Counsel, provides Geron with expertise in biotechnology patent law, having extensive experience at Affymax, N.V., Cetus Corporation, and Eli Lilly and Company. Michael D. West, Ph.D.: Vice President, New Technology Discovery, is the founder of Geron. His discoveries have contributed to the understanding of the mechanisms by which cellular senescence leads to numerous age-related pathologies. BOARD OF DIRECTORS Dr. Alexander E. Barkas, Chairman, General Partner of Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers Mr. Brian H. Dovey, General Partner of Domain Associates Mr. Ronald W. Eastman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Geron Mr. Charles M. Hartman, General Partner of CW Group Mr. Thomas D. Kiley, Entrepreneur Mr. Patrick F. Latterell, General Partner of Venrock Associates Dr. Michael E. West, Founder and Vice President of Geron SCIENTIFIC AND CLINICAL ADVISORY BOARD Robert N. Butler, M.D., Mount Sinai Medical Center Gunter K. Blobel, M.D., Ph.D., Howard Hughes Medical Institute and Rockefeller University Vincent J. Cristofalo, Ph.D., Medical College of Pennsylvania Carol Greider, Ph.D., Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Douglas Hanahan, Ph.D., University of California, San Francisco Leonard Hayflick, Ph.D., University of California, San Francisco Thomas Maciag, Ph.D., American Red Cross and George Washington University Jerry Shay, Ph.D., University of Texas Southwestern and Medical Center at Dallas James D. Watson, Ph.D., Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Woodring Wright, M.D., Ph.D., University of Texas Southwestern and Medical School at Dallas _________________________________________________________________ | Home | About/Feedback | Search | Staff From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 20 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!TENET.EDU!dashley From: dashley@TENET.EDU (Don Ashley) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Japan To Beat USA in Anti-Aging? Date: 20 May 1996 19:12:12 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 59 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net The Times MP'S GERON BIOTECH IN $30 MILLION DEAL zd Times Business Writer MENLO PARK - Menlo Park biotech startup Geron Corp. announced Monday that it has signed a $30 million collaborative agreement with one of Japan's leading pharmaceutical companies. The deal with Kyowa Hakko Kogyo Co. involves a new class of drugs directed at a specific enzyme found in several different types of cancer cells. The agreement, which covers Japan and several other Asian countries, provides Geron with milestone payments and royalties on product sales. Kyowa Hakko, a $3 billion company based in Tokyo, will receive manufacturing and marketing rights from any anti-cancer drugs that result from the collaboration. The deal marks a major breakthrough for Geron in an industry where raising cash is becoming a critical factor. The company has raised $31.1 million so far in private venture financing. But most public markets for cash have dried up following the sharp decline in stock prices for several high-profile biotechnology companies. Ronald W. Eastman, president and chief executive officer at Geron, said the alliance is also an important validation of his company's science. Geron, founded in 1992, has been studying telomerase, something that the company describes as an ``immortalizing enzyme.'' It is found in several different types of cancer cells and provides those cells with the ability to grow and multiply unchecked. The company hopes to induce tumor cell death by inhibiting the function of this enzyme. ``Telomerase represents the most exciting opportunity to arise in the cancer field in recent years,'' said Robert Weinberg of the Whitehead Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Among the aspects of telomerase that scientists find particularly attractive is the fact that it is a highly specific and nearly universal marker for cancer. That makes it a promising target for anti-cancer drugs, in part because it is not found in normal tissue, which could potentially reduce unwanted side effects from treatment. _________________________________________________________________ From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 21 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!infobiogen.fr!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!sun4nl!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.esslink.com!usenet From: hilary@poboxes.com (Hilary) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:23:02 GMT Organization: ESSLink Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> Reply-To: hilary@poboxes.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-9.esslink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I am looking for information on any theories of aging that involve mitochondria. Any suggestions as to where to look would be most appreciated! Thank you very much, Hilary ------------------- hilary@poboxes.com http://www.poboxes.com/?hilary From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Wed May 22 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.uwa.edu.au!newsman.murdoch.edu.au!vetmac3.murdoch.edu.au!user From: cummins@central.murdoch.edu.au (Jim Cummins) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:37:03 +0800 Organization: Murdoch University Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vetmac3.murdoch.edu.au In article <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com>, hilary@poboxes.com wrote: > I am looking for information on any theories of aging that involve > mitochondria. Any suggestions as to where to look would be most > appreciated! > > Thank you very much, > > Hilary > > ------------------- > hilary@poboxes.com > http://www.poboxes.com/?hilary 1. Wallace DC, Shoffner JM, Trounce I, et al. Mitochondrial DNA mutations in human degenerative diseases and aging. Biochimica et Biophysica Acta - Molecular Basis of Disease 1995;1271(1):141-151. 2. Linnane AW, Esposti MD, Generowicz M, Luff AR, Nagley P. The universality of bioenergetic disease and amelioration with redox therapy. Biochimica et Biophysica Acta - Molecular Basis of Disease 1995;1271(1):191-194. -- URL http://numbat.murdoch.edu.au/spermatology/spermhp.html From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 26 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!waikato!waikato.ac.nz!hawthorn From: hawthorn@waikato.ac.nz Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Message-ID: <1996May28.101004.42896@waikato.ac.nz> Date: 28 May 96 10:10:04 +1200 References: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand Lines: 20 In article , Lou Pagnucco writes: > Hilary writes: > >>I am looking for information on any theories of aging that involve >>mitochondria. Any suggestions as to where to look would be most >>appreciated! >> > > Hilary, > You might want to look up papers on the differences between mammalian > and bird mitochondria. The mitochondria of birds generate far fewer > free radicals. The much greater longevity of birds versus mammals of > comparable metabolic rates has been attributed to the efficiency of > their mitochodria. Reviews of this subject should be easy to find using > either the Medline or Biosis databases. Q: Could you inject bird mitochondria into a mouse egg cell and thus produce a longer lived strain of mice? Ian H From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 26 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!fu-berlin.de!news.dfn.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-regensburg.de!uni-erlangen.de!winx03!news From: Gerald Muench Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Ph.D. fellowship in Alzheimers's/glycation theory of aging Date: 27 May 1996 10:40:51 GMT Organization: Theodor-Boveri-Institut fuer Biowissenschaften Lines: 65 Message-ID: <4oc0rj$v5t@winx03.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: wbza25.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; PPC) X-URL: news:bionet.molbio.ageing A Ph. D. fellowship is available at the Department of Physiological Chemistry at the Biocenter of the University of Wuerzburg, Germany. In our esearch program, we investigate the role of Advanced Glycation Endproducts (AGEs) in Alzheimer's disease. The final target will be the development and testing of AGE-inhibitors as therapeutic drugs for the treatment of AD patients. Advanced Glycation Endproducts (AGEs) are formed by a complex cascade of dehydration, oxidation and cyclization reactions, subsequent to a non-enzymatic reaction of sugars with amino groups of proteins (²glycation²). Accumulation of AGE-crosslinked proteins throughout life is a general phenomenon of aging, it is accelerated in diabetes and renal failure. In Alzheimer¹s disease, cerebral AGEs levels in post mortem tissue of are significantly increased, with the highest immunoreactivity seen in neurofibrilary tangles and ß- amyloid plaques. In vitro, formation of insoluble, crosslinked ß-amyloid peptide and MAP-tau is accelerated by AGEs. The AGE-inhibitor tenilsetam (effective against AGE crosslinking in vitro and in animal models) significantly improved clinical and psychometric scores in two phase II clinical trials with Alzheimer¹s disease patients. Our project deals with three major questions: 1. Which factors increase the AGE level in brains of Alzheimer¹s patients ? 2. Which damaging effect do AGEs exert on (neuronal) cells ? 3. How do AGE-inhibitors interfere with AGE-mediated degenerative processes ? The site: Würzburg: www.wuerzburg.de/index.eng.html Capital of Lower Franconiam Inhabitants: 130.000. Located on both sides of the river Main, amid huge parks and vine covered hills. Nearly 50.000 students are living in Würzburg. The Julius-Maximilians-University, newly established in 1582, is he alma mater for more than 20.000 students. Six nobel prize winners have taught there (among them W. C. Röntgen, who discovered X-rays in 1895). The Biocenter: www.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de The founders of the Biocenter deemed a close cooperation of the various disciplines vital in order to prevent a disintegration of Biology. The Biocenter is an interdisciplinary institute for scientific research and learning, comprising 6 biological, 1 chemical, and 3 medical departments. Individuals should have experience with biochemistry and cell culture techniques, preferably in the field of neurobiology. Please send a description of research accomplishments, curriculum vitae and the names, addresses and telephone numbers of 2 references to: Dr. Gerald Muench Physiologische Chemie I Theodeor-Boveri-Institut fuer Biowissenschaften (Biozentrum) der Universitaet Am Hubland 97074 Wuerzburg Germany From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Sun May 26 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Lou Pagnucco Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Date: Sun, 26 May 96 20:24:02 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com X-To: Hilary Hilary writes: >I am looking for information on any theories of aging that involve >mitochondria. Any suggestions as to where to look would be most >appreciated! > Hilary, You might want to look up papers on the differences between mammalian and bird mitochondria. The mitochondria of birds generate far fewer free radicals. The much greater longevity of birds versus mammals of comparable metabolic rates has been attributed to the efficiency of their mitochodria. Reviews of this subject should be easy to find using either the Medline or Biosis databases. Regards, L. Pagnucco From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 27 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Lou Pagnucco Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Date: Tue, 28 May 96 00:52:16 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> <1996May28.101004.42896@waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: writes: > >Q: Could you inject bird mitochondria into a mouse egg cell and thus >produce a longer lived strain of mice? > Good question. I do not have an answer. Another question is whether there are anti-oxidants which have been proved to be incorporated into the mitochondrial membranes. CoQ10 has been touted to be such an anti-oxidant, but I saw a paper within the last year or two which showed that radio- labelled CoQ10 was not absorbed by the mitochondria of the lab animals used (probably mice). Regards, L. Pagnucco From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Mon May 27 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!hgmp.mrc.ac.uk!plinehan From: plinehan@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Mr. P.F. Linehan) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.ageing Subject: Re: Mitochondrial Theory of Aging Date: 28 May 1996 11:17:43 GMT Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4oencn$bti@mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk> References: <4ntaar$r47@news.esslink.com> <1996May28.101004.42896@waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: tin.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk In article <1996May28.101004.42896@waikato.ac.nz> hawthorn@waikato.ac.nz writes: .>In article , Lou Pagnucco writes: .>> Hilary writes: .>> .>>>I am looking for information on any theories of aging that involve .>>>mitochondria. Any suggestions as to where to look would be most .>>>appreciated! .>>> .>> .>> Hilary, .>> You might want to look up papers on the differences between mammalian .>> and bird mitochondria. The mitochondria of birds generate far fewer .>> free radicals. The much greater longevity of birds versus mammals of .>> comparable metabolic rates has been attributed to the efficiency of .>> their mitochodria. Reviews of this subject should be easy to find using .>> either the Medline or Biosis databases. .> .>Q: Could you inject bird mitochondria into a mouse egg cell and thus .>produce a longer lived strain of mice? It would undoubtedly be interesting but IMHO a failure. Many of the proteins which are located in the mitochondrion are nuclear coded. In any case, how would you obtain an egg totally devoid of mice mitochondria? If there were some left after transfer, they would probably outcompete the bird ones anyway. Why stop at mice? Why not humans? Might make a nice SF novel but not great science. .> .>Ian H From owner-ageing@net.bio.net Tue May 28 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!