From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 01 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!news-1.csn.net!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!umabnet.ab.umd.edu!news From: pdelaney@anesthlab.ab.umd.edu (Paul A. Delaney) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Binaural recordings Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 13:37:53 GMT Organization: UMAB Anesthesiology Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4maddj$29s8@trout.ab.umd.edu> References: <4m23u4$bp7@lorne.stir.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: anesth07.ab.umd.edu X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 You might want to consider stipulating that it be listened to with headphones or earphones. While I'm no expert, it seems that acoustic bone conduction may been important. Intriguing project... From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 01 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Binaural recordings Date: 2 May 1996 05:31:34 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 15 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4m23u4$bp7@lorne.stir.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On 29 Apr 1996, Ben Craven wrote: > I teach a course on perception, and would like to be >>>>CUT>> How would you explain the following? You are running on a treadmill get off quickly look forward and see the room going forward while you are standing still. You hear two sounds, one at 200 hertz and the other at 208 hertz which produces a standing eeg wave of 8 hertz. You take two large coins between your thumb and first finger move them back and forth quickly and see three coins. You press your fist together put them apart quickly and position them about 1 inch apart and feel them being attracted toward each other like a magnet. If you want my explaination let me know. Ron Blue From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 01 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!keele!uknet!uknet!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!news.stir.ac.uk!oss!bjc From: bjc@oss.stir.ac.uk (Ben Craven) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Binaural recordings Date: 29 Apr 1996 09:59:32 GMT Organization: University of Stirling Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4m23u4$bp7@lorne.stir.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: bjc@oss.stir.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I teach a course on perception, and would like to be able to demonstrate a binaural recording, ie one made with microphones in the ear canals of a dummy head with realistic outer ears. I've sorted out the making of replicas of my pinnae, and i assume now that it's just a matter of making a head-shaped object, attaching the pinnae, and shoving one small microphone in each ear canal. Does anybody know of any problems that I haven't foreseen? Thanks Ben Craven Stirling University Scotland PS Please e-mail me, because my newsreader doesn't always work properly. bjc@cs.stir.ac.uk From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 02 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tech.cftnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!nmia!news From: Eric Fairfield Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: EtBr nicking Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:11:25 -0600 Organization: Fairfield Enterprises Lines: 13 Message-ID: <318568BD.5087@trail.com> References: <3184C2E1.4BBE@biosci.cbs.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup12.trail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Many of these experiments have been done multiple times. Try W.R. Bauer J. Vinograd D. Clayton B. Hudson or older editions of Molecular Cloning or a Biochemistry text (1975 or so) Eric Fairfield From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Fri May 03 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!csn!news-1.csn.net!imci3!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!surfnet.nl!news.wau.nl!ns2!ns2!nntp Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: sustainable production 2040 Message-ID: <318A61E6.16C@ATO.DLO.NL> From: Joost Mogendorff Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 12:43:34 -0700 Organization: ATO_DLO, The Netherlands Nntp-Posting-Host: ato097.ato.dlo.nl X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 As part of the STD-programme (Sustainable Technology Development; a Dutch governmental programme) everybody with original, innovating ideas for Sustainable High-Tech Food Production in the year 2040 is invited to send in pioneering thoughts. Prizes of 25,000 Dutch Guilders (approx. 15,000 USDollars) will be granted to the two best ideas on how to make High-Tech Food Crops Production possible. The targeted production system should be based on the following (technological) starting points: - production units use only solar light as energy source - optimized supply of light to the plants - optimized conversion and storage of energy - application of specific sensors and actuators - total-crop principle: utilization of all wastes and by-products - production is local and demand-oriented - integration of the above mentioned technologies The contest has opened May 1, 1996. The ideas have must have reached the jury not later than July 1, 1996. Full details of the contest and background information on the STD-programme, can be found in WWW page http://www.bib.wau.nl/ato/hta/index.html E-mail: hta.page@ato.dlo.nl Joost Mogendorff Netherlands From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Fri May 03 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!zetnet.co.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sharke.demon.co.uk!Sharke From: Rob Newsgroups: bionet.women-in-bio,sci.bio.ethology,sci.bio,sci.chem,bionet.biophysics,sci.research.careers Subject: Please read this 'cos its important!! Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 14:51:44 +0100 Organization: Desperately seeking Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4lndpq$rd0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sharke.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: sharke.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.11 Xref: biosci bionet.women-in-bio:4631 sci.bio.ethology:3100 sci.chem:55407 bionet.biophysics:1933 sci.research.careers:10099 Hello guyz and galz I'm 17 and live in England, when I am 18 I want to take a year out and get an internship or work in an area of marine biology/conservation. Does anybody out there know of any possibilities ? If so please e-mail me privately: Rob@sharke.demon.co.uk Thanks in advance Rob Annis From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sat May 04 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz Newsgroups: bionet.women-in-bio,sci.bio.ethology,sci.bio,sci.chem,bionet.biophysics,sci.research.careers Subject: Re: Please read this 'cos its important!! Date: 4 May 1996 22:40:00 GMT Organization: The Noble Krell Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4mgmc0$t7a@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> References: <4lndpq$rd0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: irv-ca5-06.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sat May 04 5:40:00 PM CDT 1996 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1PE (Windows; I; 16bit) To: Sharke@sharke.demon.co.uk Xref: biosci bionet.women-in-bio:4633 sci.bio.ethology:3101 sci.chem:55441 bionet.biophysics:1934 sci.research.careers:10104 Rob wrote: >Hello guyz and galz > >I'm 17 and live in England, when I am 18 I want to take a year out and >get an internship or work in an area of marine biology/conservation. >Does anybody out there know of any possibilities ? > >If so please e-mail me privately: > >Rob@sharke.demon.co.uk > >Thanks in advance Why don't you look up Scripps Oceanographic Institute in La Jolla, California? Hawaii is a good place to enquire. Iowa is not. -- Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before "@") http://www.netprophet.co.nz/uncleal/ (naughty beyond measure; "Quis custudiet ipsos custodes?" The Net! funny beyond endurance) From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sat May 04 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: Bert Gold Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 08:36:12 -0700 Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 132 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Dixie Lawrence cc: John Burris Xref: biosci bionet.general:21489 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:936 bionet.cellbiol:4605 bionet.glycosci:657 bionet.biophysics:1935 bionet.molbio.ageing:2685 bionet.molbio.proteins:7787 bionet.neuroscience:13947 sci.med:122374 sci.research.careers:10113 talk.politics.medicine:51166 April 22, 1996 Walking back from the bank to the hospital today I was prompted to buy several large juicy navel oranges. I've been eyeing oranges for many weeks now, but my wife and I have a long standing disagreement about who picks the best ones. I thought the oranges she chose at a fruit stand, just outside Half Moon Bay yesterday, were puny; she again suggested I always pick the oversized, dried up ones. Today, though, my oranges were winners: Sweet, juicy and large; just the way I like them. In the news the past several days, as you've probably heard, Vitamin C requirements (RDAs, Required Daily Allowance, set by the National Research Council, the nation's highest scientific authority) for adult males have been revalued upward. Not modestly either: But three-fold, and still the upper limit is poorly defined. It seems an intramural researcher at NIH finally got the funding go ahead to do some of the experiments which Linus Pauling and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi always longed to do before the end of their lives, but were denied funding for. It is notable that in this latest work (1), seven men in their twenties were fed increasing doses of Vitamin C after being starved for it in their diet. Although they never showed signs of scurvy, each volunteer did report feeling uncomfortable when deprived of Vitamin C. The NIH authors note that because the subjects of their study were young men in their 20's, the results are limited to this subject group. The vivid image of Szent-Gyorgyi standing in front of Whitman Auditorium in Woods Hole holding a bottle of glyoxyl in one hand and Vitamin C in the other is permanently etched in my memory. I'll not easily forget the hypothesis of 'radical scavenging' which Szent-Gyorgyi put to us that day: He said that he and Pauling had been talking about the central importance of OXYGEN in human metabolism and explained that he had been concerned for a good deal of time about reactions generating singlet oxygen. These, produced in abundance during mitochondrial "charge transfer" in liver parenchyma, and other aerobically active tissues, must absorb electrons pairwise in order to avoid causing damage. In 1931, Pauling discovered the superoxide radical, which, though produced in minute quantities as an unwanted byproduct of oxidative phosphorylation, has enormous destructive capacity if not defused (2). During lectures given at UC Berkeley in the 80s, Pauling paid tribute to the remarkable specificity of the enzymatic system that neutralizes it: Superoxide dismutase; at the same time, however, he noted that this enzyme does not defuse the lesser, but still significant intracellular destructive capacity of singlet oxygen or the hydroxide radical (and unkown to him at the time, the NO radical). Superoxide dismutase transforms superoxide radicals to peroxide which can then be eliminated as water after the action of peroxidase and catalase. But what is the body to do with all the unpaired electrons such a process would generate? Szent-Gyorgyi told that oxygen itself could absorb unpaired electrons if only it were conjugated to carbon in the form of a double carbonyl: the simplest such compound being glyoxyl, commonly found in human liver, for this compound had sufficient electron delocalization to provide something of an electron sink. And, the supply of glyoxyl is renewable through the action of the glutathione-S-tranferase system, present in liver mitochondria. Further, Szent-Gyorgyi told us excitedly, two englishmen and a german, H.D. Dakin, H.W. Dudley and C. Neuberg had, in 1913 discovered that methylated-glyoxyl could be transformed to a potent energy source itself, lactic acid, through the action of glyoxylase, which they discovered in that year. So, in one fell swoop, Szent-Gyorgyi had connected for us the relationship between oxygen radical and one carbon metabolism. I promise I will discuss this relationship in the next few weeks, when I write another essay, tentatively titled, Folic Acid and I. In comments honoring Szent-Gyorgyi on the occasion of his 82nd birthday, Linus Pauling recalled Vitamin C's discovery by Szent-Gyorgyi in 1928. Pauling noted that Szent-Gyorgyi had written in 1939 (4) that although organisms were generally well adapted to their surroundings, that the destruction of the natural environment endangered that adapatation. "I have a strong faith in the perfection of the human body", Szent-Gyorgyi wrote in 1939, "and I think that vitamins are an important factor in its coordination with its surroundings. Vitamins, if properly understood and applied, will help us to reduce human suffering to an extent which the most fantastic mind would fail to imagine." (3) On the day that I met him in Woods Hole, Szent-Gyorgyi told us he and Pauling (three Nobel prizes) between them suggested that significant increases in Vitamin C intake were almost certainly required by an adult body, perhaps especially at times when oxygen production was increased. Szent-Gyorgyi had insisted in a book he had written two years before, that Vitamin C, especially when complexed with manganese in the presence of oxygen, could synthesize a free radical form, as well and as easily as it could form a dehydroascorbate, oxidized form in the presence of copper or iron and in alliance with an enzyme he'd discovered in plants in 1931 and named 'ascorbic acid oxidase.' Szent-Gyorgyi insisted that it was in some sense the equilibrium between the various oxidized and reduced forms of ascorbate which provided its multifarious activities. And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men has been adjusted three-fold upward. It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research 'establishment'... The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this country. My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in making decision about what to and what not to study. Bert Gold San Francisco References (1) Levine, M.; Conry-Cantilena, C.; Wang, Y.; Welch, R.W.; Washko, P.W.; Dhariwal, K.R.; Park, J.B.; Lazarev, A.; Graumlich, J.G., King, J.; Cantilena, L.R. (1996) Vitamin C pharmacokinetics in healthy volunteers: Evidence for a recommended dietary allowance. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA; 93, 3704-3709. (2) Marinacci, B. (1995) Linus Pauling in His Own Words, New York, Simon & Shuster. (3) Kaminer, B., ed. (1977) Search and Discovery, A tribute to Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, New York, Academic Press. (4) Szent-Gyorgyi, A. (1939) On Oxidation, Fermentation, Vitamins, Health and Disease. Baltimore, Williams and Wilkins. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!martinlab From: klenchin@macc.wisc.edu (Dima Klenchin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Sun, 05 May 96 22:55:18 GMT Organization: UW-Madison Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: martinlab.biochem.wisc.edu X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: biosci bionet.general:21490 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:937 bionet.cellbiol:4607 bionet.glycosci:658 bionet.biophysics:1936 bionet.molbio.ageing:2686 bionet.molbio.proteins:7788 bionet.neuroscience:13949 sci.med:122383 sci.research.careers:10114 talk.politics.medicine:51169 In article , Bert Gold wrote: Newsgroups: >bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bi >onet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience >,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in >making decision about what to and what not to study. Judging by the number of newsgroups crossposted, Bert Gold fully qualifies as spammer... :-)) Just kidding Seriously: Dr. Gold has obviously very strong opinion on the subject. The Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? - Dima From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!usenet From: Chris Barry Newsgroups: bionet.women-in-bio,sci.bio.ethology,sci.bio,sci.chem,bionet.biophysics,sci.research.careers Subject: Re: Please read this 'cos its important!! Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 16:26:57 -0700 Organization: Lawrence Livermore Lines: 17 Message-ID: <318E8AC1.2A8AA65@mackiller.llnl.gov> References: <4lndpq$rd0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mackiller.llnl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; Linux 1.1.72 i486) Xref: biosci bionet.women-in-bio:4656 sci.bio.ethology:3103 sci.chem:55555 bionet.biophysics:1940 sci.research.careers:10135 bodega bay research institute might alos be a good place to inquire Rob wrote: > > Hello guyz and galz > > I'm 17 and live in England, when I am 18 I want to take a year out and > get an internship or work in an area of marine biology/conservation. > Does anybody out there know of any possibilities ? > > If so please e-mail me privately: > > Rob@sharke.demon.co.uk > > Thanks in advance > > Rob Annis From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!CC.USU.EDU!arsphys From: arsphys@CC.USU.EDU (Phil Harrison) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Protein lists Date: 6 May 1996 08:21:09 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 14 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <01I4DPBMRIIS8ZKZVV@cc.usu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Can anyone suggest any lists that deal with protein purification and analysis. I am doing some purification work and would like to be able to discuss some problems. Phil Harrison arsphys@cc.usu.edu Philip A. Harrison Phone: 801-797-3209 Plant Physiologist Fax: 801-797-3075 USDA-Agricultural Research Service E-Mail: arsphys@cc.usu.edu Forage and Range Research Lab Utah State University, UMC 6300 Logan, UT 84322-6300 From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 05 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 6 May 1996 12:37:24 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4mkrq4$pih@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21501 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:939 bionet.cellbiol:4610 bionet.glycosci:661 bionet.biophysics:1937 bionet.molbio.ageing:2688 bionet.molbio.proteins:7793 bionet.neuroscience:13956 sci.med:122444 sci.research.careers:10122 talk.politics.medicine:51190 Dima, My reading of the aforemented PNAS paper by Levine et al., (1996) disagrees with the very high dose vitamin C protocols which were advocated by Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi, without providing any firm evidence on the issue, and without mentioning these great investigators by name. Conclusions in the PNAS paper are limited to a new RDA for ascorbate for men in their 20s. Bert Gold San Francisco Dima Klenchin (klenchin@macc.wisc.edu) wrote: : Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair : is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? : - Dima From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!usenet From: "John E. Kuslich" Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 15:12:42 -0600 Organization: CRAK Software Lines: 107 Message-ID: <318FBCCA.355B@indirect.com> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: s141.phxslip4.indirect.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) CC: news Xref: biosci bionet.general:21529 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:947 bionet.cellbiol:4627 bionet.glycosci:667 bionet.biophysics:1945 bionet.molbio.ageing:2695 bionet.molbio.proteins:7821 bionet.neuroscience:13989 sci.med:122659 sci.research.careers:10150 talk.politics.medicine:51247 Scott Russell wrote: > > In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, > "John E. Kuslich" wrote: > >Bert Gold wrote: > >> <<<>> > > > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. > >> > >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > >> 'establishment'... > >> > >> > >> Bert Gold > >> San Francisco > >> > >> References > > > ><<> > > > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > >scientific research. > > > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and > >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer > >simulation of weather. > > > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to > >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many > >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > > > >Oh well... > > > >John E. Kuslich > > Now wait a minute. > > (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as > possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to > warrant the conclusions that were made. I think you effectively illustrate attitudes that lead us to accept conclusions of and act upon "junk " science. I believe that if you examine the case for all three of the topics mentioned, you will be led to the inescapable conclusion that "Junk" science is alive and well. Some of these nutty ideas only gain popular acceptance because of the tendency for the liberal media to publicize them - they fit well into the environmentalist agenda. "Possibilities" don't necessarily merit action which will cause serious economic dislocations. The "Carbon Tax" comes to mind. > > (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending > forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior > of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be > unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. > You misstate my point. Chaos theory indicates quite convincingly that there are severe limits on the ability of computers to make long term weather predictions because we simply 1) can never model the physical weather interactions adequately, 2) we can never have enough knowledge of initial condidtions to put into our model to get long term results. We might as well put research money into perpetual motion. That was my point. > (3) "The Bell Curve" received almost unanimous negative reviews from > scientists because measuring intelligence was treated as if: (a) we knew what > intelligence was; (b) we could measure it reproducibly and accurately; and (c) > that it is possible to any of this in a culturally neutral manner. Most were > unimpressed by the numerous charts and graphs because underlying them, the > science was weak and the "parameters" were meaningless. If the IQ test > measures anything, it measures the ability of people to take IQ tests, and it > is not even entirely reliable for that. Given the absence of compelling data, > the book has a pernicious effect on society and its conclusions ignore > too many societal effects on those measured. The use of "science" to achieve > social ends based on race should doomed to fail because, this approach like > Nazi "science," is not based on a single uncontested fact. Gees. The point I was making is perfectly illustrated by your paragraph above. Real research and real science do not question the political implications of the truth. I don't know if the conclusions of this book are good ones or not. The point is, this kind of subject matter is avoided by science for politcal reasons. That can hardly be a method that will lead us to the truth!! It is like the Vatican criticizing fertility research based on it's position on birth control. If you don't do birth control research, you won't arrive at the truth as to which methods are effective. Similarly, if you cannot state certain hypothyses and examine the implications of such an hypothyses because they are not politically correct, then you are not doing science. Nazi science is as bad as un-Nazi science, or Vatican science or Zionist science or Environmentalist science. If it is limited in scope or subject for political reasons, it is not science. That was my point. > -- John E. Kuslich WPcrak for Wordperfect johnk@indirect.com WDcrak for MS Word Password Recovery EXcrak for MS Excel 602 863 9274 voice QPcrak for Quattro Pro 602 548 1993 fax LOcrak for Lotus 123 Password Removal QWcrak for Quicken Our WEB Site http://www.indirect.com/www/johnk/ >>>>>>>>You Hack'em, We CRAK'em<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 7 May 1996 19:25:43 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 69 Message-ID: <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21527 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:946 bionet.cellbiol:4626 bionet.glycosci:665 bionet.biophysics:1944 bionet.molbio.ageing:2694 bionet.molbio.proteins:7818 bionet.neuroscience:13987 sci.med:122643 sci.research.careers:10149 talk.politics.medicine:51242 I agree with Mr. Wagner when he suggests that Mr. Kuslich has not properly sorted the wheat from the chaff in the scientific literature. In addition, it is precisely the point that science has become overly politicized which I was trying to make in writing my post. In fact, regular readers of my essays will remember that the Woods Hole meeting I proposed specifically excluded media and was wholly aimed at gathering a fair and honest consensus from scientists before presenting the results to the public. However, the scientific ruling elite have chosen not to follow this wise course, preferring noisy public debate and namecalling to reasoned, well thought-out discourse. Our leaders need to rethink their positions. Bert Gold San Francisco Path: itssrv1.ucsf.edu!cgl!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail From: wagner@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lukas Wagner) Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 7 May 1996 12:06:34 -0400 Organization: Ohio State University Physics Dept. John E. Kuslich wrote: >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called >scientific research. > The ozone hole is quite real. You might look up articles by Sherwood Rowland written in the last 10 years if you don't believe me, or if you have qualms about the quality of the research. The evidence on global warming is mixed to the best of my knowledge. I believe that the basis for the conclusions is careful work on ice cores. Why you put either of these in the same category as cold fusion is beyond me; perhaps you can cite review articles in real journals that indicate the poor quality of the science? >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. > Generously, this sentence suggests that you haven't read the Journal of Atmospheric Research recently. If getting to a library is troublesome, catch NCAR's web site: http://www.ncar.ucar.edu/ for some idea of what people who study weather actually do. The Lyapunov spectrum of weather models depends on the number of modes one includes. The number of days over which it's feasible to forecast weather depends on the largest Lyapunov exponent. You might look at J. Curry, Commun. Math. Phys. 60, 193 (1978). I hope that what you do for a living is less half-assed than your post. Science has some real problems; excessive politicization is certainly one of them. What you seem to cite as symptoms aren't. -- -Lukas Wagner wagner@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.uoknor.edu!botrusse From: srussell@ou.edu (Scott Russell) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Tue, 07 May 96 18:54:37 GMT Organization: University of Oklahoma Lines: 69 Message-ID: <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: botrusse.bio.uoknor.edu X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: biosci bionet.general:21524 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:945 bionet.cellbiol:4624 bionet.glycosci:664 bionet.biophysics:1943 bionet.molbio.ageing:2693 bionet.molbio.proteins:7816 bionet.neuroscience:13986 sci.med:122640 sci.research.careers:10148 talk.politics.medicine:51241 In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, "John E. Kuslich" wrote: >Bert Gold wrote: >> <<<>> > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. >> >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >> 'establishment'... >> >> >> Bert Gold >> San Francisco >> >> References > ><<> > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called >scientific research. > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > >Oh well... > >John E. Kuslich Now wait a minute. (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to warrant the conclusions that were made. (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. (3) "The Bell Curve" received almost unanimous negative reviews from scientists because measuring intelligence was treated as if: (a) we knew what intelligence was; (b) we could measure it reproducibly and accurately; and (c) that it is possible to any of this in a culturally neutral manner. Most were unimpressed by the numerous charts and graphs because underlying them, the science was weak and the "parameters" were meaningless. If the IQ test measures anything, it measures the ability of people to take IQ tests, and it is not even entirely reliable for that. Given the absence of compelling data, the book has a pernicious effect on society and its conclusions ignore too many societal effects on those measured. The use of "science" to achieve social ends based on race should doomed to fail because, this approach like Nazi "science," is not based on a single uncontested fact. ========================================================================= Scott D. Russell Internet: srussell@ou.edu Dept of Botany & Microbiology ->http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ & Noble Electron Microscopy Lab ->http://www.ou.edu/research/electron/ University of Oklahoma, Norman OK Phone: 1-405-325-6234 73019-0245 USA FAX: 1-405-325-7619 =========================================================================  From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp-ucb.barrnet.net!jeeves.usfca.edu!news From: "j.y." Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: this a test Date: 7 May 1996 03:27:45 GMT Organization: University of San Francisco Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4mmfvh$6ll@jeeves.usfca.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lchihara.usfca.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-URL: news:bionet.biophysics test From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 06 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!usenet From: "John E. Kuslich" Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 18:37:27 -0600 Organization: CRAK Software Lines: 56 Message-ID: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: s178.phxslip4.indirect.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) CC: news Xref: biosci bionet.general:21511 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:943 bionet.cellbiol:4616 bionet.glycosci:663 bionet.biophysics:1941 bionet.molbio.ageing:2690 bionet.molbio.proteins:7801 bionet.neuroscience:13968 sci.med:122540 sci.research.careers:10137 talk.politics.medicine:51213 Bert Gold wrote: > <<<>> > And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > has been adjusted three-fold upward. > > It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > 'establishment'... > > The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died > without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final > nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about > our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this > country. > > My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer > because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in > making decision about what to and what not to study. > > Bert Gold > San Francisco > > References <<> Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called scientific research. Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer simulation of weather. Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! Oh well... John E. Kuslich -- John E. Kuslich WPcrak for Wordperfect johnk@indirect.com WDcrak for MS Word Password Recovery EXcrak for MS Excel 602 863 9274 voice QPcrak for Quattro Pro 602 548 1993 fax LOcrak for Lotus 123 Password Removal QWcrak for Quicken Our WEB Site http://www.indirect.com/www/johnk/ >>>>>>>>You Hack'em, We CRAK'em<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!zetnet.co.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!d-access.demon.co.uk From: user Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: *MEDLINE on the web* Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 14:47:23 +0100 Organization: Healthworks Ltd. Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3190A5EB.17BB@d-access.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d-access.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: d-access.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MEDLINE ON HEALTHWORKS ONLINE Healthworks now offers affordable access to MEDLINE. The largest single database of published medical literature in the world. In recent years Medline has been sold on CD-ROM, seven disks in all, at an annual subscription rate for an individual user in excess of 2,000 pounds sterling. Due to the availability of Internet delivery systems Healthworks is able to offer annual subscriptions at 420 pounds sterling (35 pounds sterling per month), discounts are available for multiple users and institutions. MEDLINE contains more than 7.5 million citations from over 4,000 Biomedical Journals, of which 50 percent include abstracts. The average number of articles used has increased to 400,000 per year. It is the essential tool when searching for medical information; including topics relating to healthcare administration, biomedical research, medicine, surgery, dentistry and nursing dating back to 1966. For a FREE TEST DRIVE of MEDLINE point your web browser at: http://www.healthworks.co.uk or to recieve more information on Healthworks MEDLINE service on the internet, please e-mail your e-mail address to medline_info@d-access.demon.co.uk or if you would prefer to receive printed material send your full postal address to medline_info@d-access.demon.co.uk including the words PRINTED MEDLINE in your message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Healthworks Ltd. 30-38 Dock Street, Leeds, LS10 1JF, UK. 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From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 8 May 1996 01:15:55 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 91 Message-ID: <4moskb$14rs@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mjbkm$6is_001@biochem.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21531 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:950 bionet.cellbiol:4630 bionet.glycosci:669 bionet.biophysics:1948 bionet.molbio.ageing:2697 bionet.molbio.proteins:7824 bionet.neuroscience:13993 sci.med:122692 sci.research.careers:10155 talk.politics.medicine:51252 Mr. Kuslich's suggestion that science can somehow be cleansed of human values and thus be made more pure is a misunderstanding of what science is and does. Science is a human endeavor. As such it manifests all of the frailties and foibles of any deeply human undertaking. It cannot be politically 'cleansed' of value: Further, why would you want to? Science, as practiced, should be ethical. It should aspire to revere its creators, not dimish them. Bronowski and Pauling wrote eloquently on these points. Pauling always suggested that the goal of science was clearly to diminish human suffering. That is why he was awarded a Nobel Prize in Peace; for helping to orchestrate the Test Ban Treaty; it is also notable that he was blacklisted, and almost indicted for treason for that very same cause. Science is political. But it should not be guided solely by a political agenda: That is why it has (for the last couple of hundred years) been done mostly at Universities, where tenure (an archaic, but important system for guarding unpopular ideas) has been guaranteed. Tenure is not perfect, witness the case of Paul Simmelweiss, who died a pauper in the streets of Vienna for having the audacity to suggest that surgeons should wash themselves between autopsy and entering the operating theatre. No, tenure is not perfect, but it is better than nothing.... We are now, in the process, in this country, of doing away with all that! Humanistic science, tenure, Universities (as sanctuaries for learning) are all being destroyed. Won't you who are criticizing the blind alleys into which science inevitably goes admit your own imperfection: So that you can help to save a tradition of inquiry which, although imperfect, used to be credible, ethical and respectable. That was my goal in writing this essay: To acknowledge that we have lost something if we do not clearly respect the humility of our own enterprise of discovery. And perhaps the most important sense of humility we have lost is the recognition that Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi (and Bronowski) were GIANTS! And now, we stand deeply impoverished by their loss and wonder whether life has any meaning at all, or shall we just all toss it in, and let a bunch of robots, without a political agenda, proceed on their own path toward discovery. A path which clearly does not lead to a world which combines 'Science and Human Values', the title of one of Bronowski's books, but leads to knowledge of, by and for a world of robots. Such a vision feels to me more out of the tradition of Asimov or Bradbury, than that of Pauling, Szent-Gyorgyi or Bronowski. Though all five of these authors manifest some kind of genius, the latter three were clearly of this earth. The former two spent a good deal of their time on what I think was a lesser planet, one of their own creation. Bert Gold San Francisco Dima Klenchin (klenchin@macc.wisc.edu) wrote: : In article , : Bert Gold wrote: : Newsgroups: : >bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bi : >onet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience : >,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine : >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer : >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in : >making decision about what to and what not to study. : Judging by the number of newsgroups crossposted, Bert Gold fully qualifies : as spammer... : :-)) Just kidding : Seriously: Dr. Gold has obviously very strong opinion on the subject. The : Q: is it really confirmed by research, or the current state of affair : is simply that kilogram amounts of ascorbic acid don't hurt (apparently)? : - Dima From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!not-for-mail From: hrubin@b.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 7 May 1996 20:29:21 -0500 Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4motdh$3mfi@b.stat.purdue.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b.stat.purdue.edu Xref: biosci bionet.general:21530 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:949 bionet.cellbiol:4629 bionet.glycosci:668 bionet.biophysics:1947 bionet.molbio.ageing:2696 bionet.molbio.proteins:7823 bionet.neuroscience:13991 sci.med:122684 sci.research.careers:10154 talk.politics.medicine:51251 In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, John E. Kuslich wrote: >Bert Gold wrote: >> <<<>> >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >> 'establishment'... ................. >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer >simulation of weather. That we cannot predict the precise time at which rain will start, or things to that effect, does not mean that we cannot learn by judicious use of simulation. Choas theory tells us that exactly what will happen is very sensitive to initial conditions, but that we cannot tell exactly where that tornado will strike is no reason not to give a tornado warning. ................... -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (317)494-6054 FAX: (317)494-0558 From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!itsa.ucsf.edu!bgold From: bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Followup-To: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Date: 8 May 1996 20:30:55 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: itsa.ucsf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.general:21556 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:954 bionet.cellbiol:4644 bionet.biophysics:1955 bionet.molbio.ageing:2704 bionet.molbio.proteins:7839 bionet.neuroscience:14008 sci.med:122812 sci.research.careers:10168 talk.politics.medicine:51292 Dr. Deneke, If you bother to read Pauling, you will find that he not only advocated MEGAdose amounts of vitamin C, but was an ardent advocate of establishing a new RDA for ascorbate as well, based upon more controlled indicators than relief from scurvy; this is precisely the work which Levine et. al have now done, establishing a new RDA. The current study only establishes a new RDA for healthy, men non-smokers in their 20s. Dr. Pauling suggested that he thought anti-oxidant requirements would increase with increasing age. Levine et al. do not comment on this, or the RDA for women. Dr. Pauling suggested many other functions for Vitamin C than anti-oxidant effect: Few of these have been tested in the time which intervenes between his suggestions and now. It is notable that Dr. Levine did not cite Dr. Pauling or Dr. Szent-Gyorgyi in his PNAS publication. Further, in my telephone conversation with Dr. Levine last week, he admitted to me that funding at NIH for nutrition was "political". Bert Gold San Francisco : Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi are my heros too, but neither a conspiracy or : scientific incompetence is necessary to explain delays in jumping to recommend : large doses of vitamin C. In fact chemistry, physiology etc. of ascorbic acid : has been under intense investigation over the last several decades. It is well : known that ascorbate, under some conditions acts a a pro-oxidant rather than an : antioxidant. As for all nutritional additives it is extremely difficult to : determine whether consumption of high levels of the pure product may cause : toxic effects which are neutralized by other components present in the natural : food sources. Do large doses of ascorbate protect, deplete, or block induction : of other antioxidants? I can probably find instances of all of these effects : in the literature of the past 5 years. In short, its not that simple. Evidence : for multiple benefits from increasing dietary intake of ascorbate and other : antioxidants by increased consumption of fruits and vegetables is very : convincing. The health benefits of ingesting large levels of purified : antioxidants of any kind are proving harder to analyse. Unfortunately we are : not yet to the point where we can usefully micro-manage our nutrition. Take : megadoses of vitamins if you chose, at your own risk, but many of us would : prefer to keep on eating our fruits and veggies. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!pixie.tridom.com!usenet From: mp@eng.tridom.com (Mike Pitcher) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 8 May 1996 18:50:19 GMT Organization: AT&T Tridom Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4mqqdb$rfp@pixie.tridom.com> References: Reply-To: mp@eng.tridom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: yah.eng.tridom.com Xref: biosci bionet.general:21554 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:953 bionet.cellbiol:4641 bionet.glycosci:674 bionet.biophysics:1954 bionet.molbio.ageing:2703 bionet.molbio.proteins:7837 bionet.neuroscience:14005 sci.med:122791 sci.research.careers:10167 talk.politics.medicine:51290 I agree that the priorities may need a little adjusting and that the research funding process is not perfect. Since human health and well-being is such an important (and expensive) activity one would think that it would get top priority. Oh well. For what it's worth, let me share what I have found by trial and error. I live in Atlanta which is an area not particularly friendly to allergy sufferers. For 20 years, I would get respiratory problems two times a year (spring and fall) that would start with sore throat, coughing, sometimes leading to runny nose, watery eyes, occasionally sinus problems, etc. The Drs would inevitably prescribe an antibiotic and maybe cough syrup (if cough was a problem), Seldane, pseudephedrine hydrochloride (wasn't good for my BP), or whatever. Well, last year, I had enough of this crap. No fault of the Drs, but I decided to try vit C. Starting with 1000mg dose (500mg twice a day) last fall and now am down to 500mg once a day. The usual fall and spring resp. problems never appeared. I got a few sniffles, but *nothing* compared to what I usually get. No change in work conditions, same house, same car, etc. Only significant change (besides another yr older and a raise :-) ), is the vit C. Coincidence? I think not. Bottom line is, I think the RDA is totally out of whack. There needs to be a *lot* more research done with vitamins in general and focus on what it takes to make people function properly, rather than try to fix what's broken. Seems I remember an adage: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How true. Mike Pitcher email: mp@eng.tridom.com From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!not-for-mail From: Alexander Spirov Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Reprints online Date: 8 May 1996 18:58:42 +0100 Lines: 72 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <4mqnci$5lg@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Encoding: 71 TEXT Original-To: "'bionet.general'" , "'bionet.biophysics'" , "'bionet.biology.computational'" This announcement is being cross-posted to several newsgroups. Please, excuse the duplication. Dear All, The following two paper are now available as PostScript files via anonymous ftp. ========================= ftp://ftp.iephb.ru/pub/spirov/celelect.ps (840K) + ftp://ftp.iephb.ru/pub/spirov/celelectpics.zip (133K) is postscript version of the paper that appeared in the JOURNAL OF ELECTRO & MAGNETOBIOLOGY. 1994, 13, (2), 149-158. "Electrical activity of biomembranes and vectorization of intracellular processes" by V.A.Kaimanovich, E.M.Krupitski, A.V.Spirov We consider theoretical mechanisms of the influence of intracellular electric fields on directed polymerization and orientation of microtubules. A generalization of Fromherz' model of self-organization in the ionic channels system of biomembranes is used for a simulation of the interaction between the membrane electric activity and the behaviour of submembrane cytoskeletal components. A similar interaction between the membrane electric activity and directed polymerization of microtubules can also play a fundamental role in neuronal mechanisms of learning and memory. <> HTML version see http://www.iephb.ru/celelect1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- ftp://ftp.iephb.ru/pub/spirov/seaurchin.zip (440KB) is ZIP-file with postscript version of the paper that appeared in the JOURNAL THEORETICAL BIOLOGY, 1993, 161, 491-504. "The Change of Initial Symmetry in the Pattern-Form Interaction Model of Sea Urchin Gastrulation" by Alexander V. Spirov The characteristic feature of pattern-form interaction models is feedback loop from biochemical pattern formation to form changes in the developing embryo. The models are directed towards prediction of changes of the embryo surface geometry and biochemical pattern. We deal with an investigation of the mechanisms of "amplification" of non-linear response of a morphogens reaction-diffusion system due to changes of geometry in the developing object. Potentiality of approach is demonstrated by simulation of gastrulation and the following morphogenesis of the sea urchin embryo. HTML version see http://www.iephb.ru/symbrk.html ======================================= The pub/spirov/index file contains an index of the other files. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!netnews.uthscsa.edu!usenet From: S. Deneke Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 8 May 1996 17:01:43 GMT Organization: UTHSCSA Lines: 154 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneke.uthscsa.edu X-Newsreader: Xref: biosci bionet.general:21550 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:952 bionet.cellbiol:4639 bionet.glycosci:673 bionet.biophysics:1952 bionet.molbio.ageing:2702 bionet.molbio.proteins:7836 bionet.neuroscience:14004 sci.med:122778 sci.research.careers:10166 talk.politics.medicine:51285 In article , Bert Gold writes: >April 22, 1996 > >Walking back from the bank to the hospital today I was prompted to >buy several large juicy navel oranges. I've been eyeing oranges for many >weeks now, but my wife and I have a long standing disagreement about >who picks the best ones. I thought the oranges she chose at a fruit >stand, just outside Half Moon Bay yesterday, were puny; she again >suggested I always pick the oversized, dried up ones. >Today, though, my oranges were winners: Sweet, juicy and large; >just the way I like them. > >In the news the past several days, as you've probably heard, Vitamin C >requirements (RDAs, Required Daily Allowance, set by the National Research >Council, the nation's highest scientific authority) for adult males have >been revalued upward. Not modestly either: But three-fold, and still >the upper limit is poorly defined. It seems an intramural researcher >at NIH finally got the funding go ahead to do some of the experiments >which Linus Pauling and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi always longed to do >before the end of their lives, but were denied funding for. > >It is notable that in this latest work (1), seven men in their twenties >were fed increasing doses of Vitamin C after being starved for >it in their diet. Although they never showed signs of scurvy, >each volunteer did report feeling uncomfortable when deprived >of Vitamin C. The NIH authors note that because the subjects >of their study were young men in their 20's, the results are >limited to this subject group. > >The vivid image of Szent-Gyorgyi standing in front of Whitman Auditorium >in Woods Hole holding a bottle of glyoxyl in one hand and Vitamin C >in the other is permanently etched in my memory. I'll not easily >forget the hypothesis of 'radical scavenging' which Szent-Gyorgyi >put to us that day: He said that he and Pauling had been talking >about the central importance of OXYGEN in human metabolism >and explained that he had been concerned for a good deal of time about >reactions generating singlet oxygen. These, produced in abundance >during mitochondrial "charge transfer" in liver parenchyma, and other >aerobically active tissues, must absorb electrons pairwise in order to >avoid causing damage. > >In 1931, Pauling discovered the superoxide radical, which, though >produced in minute quantities as an unwanted byproduct of oxidative >phosphorylation, has enormous destructive capacity if not defused (2). >During lectures given at UC Berkeley in the 80s, Pauling paid >tribute to the remarkable specificity of the enzymatic system that >neutralizes it: Superoxide dismutase; at the same time, however, >he noted that this enzyme does not defuse the lesser, but still significant >intracellular destructive capacity of singlet oxygen or the hydroxide radical >(and unkown to him at the time, the NO radical). > >Superoxide dismutase transforms superoxide radicals to peroxide which can >then be eliminated as water after the action of peroxidase and catalase. >But what is the body to do with all the unpaired electrons such a process >would generate? Szent-Gyorgyi told that oxygen itself could absorb unpaired >electrons if only it were conjugated to carbon in the form of a double >carbonyl: the simplest such compound being glyoxyl, commonly found in human >liver, for this compound had sufficient electron delocalization to provide >something of an electron sink. And, the supply of glyoxyl is renewable >through the action of the glutathione-S-tranferase system, present in >liver mitochondria. Further, Szent-Gyorgyi told us excitedly, two >englishmen and a german, H.D. Dakin, H.W. Dudley and C. Neuberg had, in >1913 discovered that methylated-glyoxyl could be transformed to a potent >energy source itself, lactic acid, through the action of glyoxylase, >which they discovered in that year. So, in one fell swoop, Szent-Gyorgyi >had connected for us the relationship between oxygen radical and one >carbon metabolism. I promise I will discuss this relationship in the >next few weeks, when I write another essay, tentatively titled, >Folic Acid and I. > >In comments honoring Szent-Gyorgyi on the occasion of his 82nd >birthday, Linus Pauling recalled Vitamin C's discovery by Szent-Gyorgyi >in 1928. Pauling noted that Szent-Gyorgyi had written in 1939 (4) that >although organisms were generally well adapted to their surroundings, >that the destruction of the natural environment endangered that >adapatation. "I have a strong faith in the perfection of the human >body", Szent-Gyorgyi wrote in 1939, "and I think that vitamins are an >important factor in its coordination with its surroundings. Vitamins, >if properly understood and applied, will help us to reduce human suffering >to an extent which the most fantastic mind would fail to imagine." (3) > >On the day that I met him in Woods Hole, Szent-Gyorgyi told us he and Pauling >(three Nobel prizes) between them suggested that significant increases >in Vitamin C intake were almost certainly required by an adult body, >perhaps especially at times when oxygen production was increased. >Szent-Gyorgyi had insisted in a book he had written two years before, >that Vitamin C, especially when complexed with manganese in >the presence of oxygen, could synthesize a free radical form, as well and as >easily as it could form a dehydroascorbate, oxidized form in the >presence of copper or iron and in alliance with an enzyme he'd >discovered in plants in 1931 and named 'ascorbic acid oxidase.' >Szent-Gyorgyi insisted that it was in some sense the equilibrium between >the various oxidized and reduced forms of ascorbate which provided its >multifarious activities. > >And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by >Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men >has been adjusted three-fold upward. > >It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research >'establishment'... > >The knowledge that both Linus and Albe died >without ever attaining a modicum of funding for their final >nutrition project confirms some of my worst fears about >our ways of deciding what research is worthy in this >country. > >My hope in writing this is that our children will not suffer >because of the lack of wisdom of their leaders in >making decision about what to and what not to study. > >Bert Gold >San Francisco > >References > >(1) Levine, M.; Conry-Cantilena, C.; Wang, Y.; Welch, R.W.; Washko, P.W.; >Dhariwal, K.R.; Park, J.B.; Lazarev, A.; Graumlich, J.G., King, J.; >Cantilena, L.R. (1996) Vitamin C pharmacokinetics in healthy >volunteers: Evidence for a recommended dietary allowance. >Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA; 93, 3704-3709. > >(2) Marinacci, B. (1995) Linus Pauling in His Own Words, New York, Simon & >Shuster. > >(3) Kaminer, B., ed. (1977) Search and Discovery, A tribute to Albert >Szent-Gyorgyi, New York, Academic Press. > >(4) Szent-Gyorgyi, A. (1939) On Oxidation, Fermentation, Vitamins, Health >and Disease. Baltimore, Williams and Wilkins. > > Pauling and Szent-Gyorgyi are my heros too, but neither a conspiracy or scientific incompetence is necessary to explain delays in jumping to recommend large doses of vitamin C. In fact chemistry, physiology etc. of ascorbic acid has been under intense investigation over the last several decades. It is well known that ascorbate, under some conditions acts a a pro-oxidant rather than an antioxidant. As for all nutritional additives it is extremely difficult to determine whether consumption of high levels of the pure product may cause toxic effects which are neutralized by other components present in the natural food sources. Do large doses of ascorbate protect, deplete, or block induction of other antioxidants? I can probably find instances of all of these effects in the literature of the past 5 years. In short, its not that simple. Evidence for multiple benefits from increasing dietary intake of ascorbate and other antioxidants by increased consumption of fruits and vegetables is very convincing. The health benefits of ingesting large levels of purified antioxidants of any kind are proving harder to analyse. Unfortunately we are not yet to the point where we can usefully micro-manage our nutrition. Take megadoses of vitamins if you chose, at your own risk, but many of us would prefer to keep on eating our fruits and veggies. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!torn!ccshst05.uoguelph.ca!ccshst01!cfares From: cfares@uoguelph.ca (Christophe Fares) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Axial diffusion of membrane proteins Date: 8 May 1996 15:33:21 GMT Organization: University of Guelph Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4mqes1$rha@ccshst05.uoguelph.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ccshst01.uoguelph.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I don't know if this is the right newsgroup to ask this question, but I'll give it a shot anyway. I'm looking for the rates of motions of small membrane proteins (spanning the membrane once or twice). Of particular interest to me is the axially symmetric reorientation rate of a membrane protein in a membrane bilayer. If anyone out there is an expert on this topic, could he/she please fill me in and/or send a reference to a good review article? -- Christophe Fares \\/// (.. ) -----------------------o00-(_)--00o--------- |Address:Physics Dept. | | MacNaughton Bldg (Rm 014) | | University of Guelph | | Guelph, Ont. N1G 2W1 | |Phone: (519)-824-4120 X8542 or X8541(lab) | | (519)-823-8111 (home) | |E-mail: cfares@uoguelph.ca | | mox@physics.uoguelph.ca | | chris@magique.physics.uoguelph.ca | |Website: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~cfares | -------------------------------------------- From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!usenet From: Richard Kondo Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 09:37:27 -0700 Organization: UCLA Lines: 119 Message-ID: <3190CDC7.28B1@ephys.ucla.edu> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo6if$9vs@frazier.uoknor.edu> <318FBCCA.355B@indirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.142.108.200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (WinNT; I) Xref: biosci bionet.general:21548 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:951 bionet.cellbiol:4637 bionet.glycosci:672 bionet.biophysics:1950 bionet.molbio.ageing:2701 bionet.molbio.proteins:7833 bionet.neuroscience:14003 sci.med:122769 sci.research.careers:10165 talk.politics.medicine:51283 John E. Kuslich wrote: > > Scott Russell wrote: > > > > In article <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com>, > > "John E. Kuslich" wrote: > > >Bert Gold wrote: > > >> <<<>> > > > > > >> And yet, this week, fully 18 years after the memorable talk by > > >> Szent-Gyorgyi which I just described, the Vitamin C RDA for men > > >> has been adjusted three-fold upward. > > >> > > >> It makes me wonder at the brazen inefficiency of the research > > >> 'establishment'... > > >> > > >> > > >> Bert Gold > > >> San Francisco > > >> > > >> References > > > > > ><<> > > > > > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > > >scientific research. > > > > > >Chaos theory eliminated any hope of long term weather prediction, and > > >yet we still have "researchers" at major universities doing computer > > >simulation of weather. > > > > > >Modern science has gone "politically correct"; look at the reaction to > > >that book entitled "The Bell Curve". It was widely renounced by many > > >so-called scientists who never took the time to read it!!! > > > > > >Oh well... > > > > > >John E. Kuslich > > > > Now wait a minute. > > > > (1) None of the topics in the first paragraph have been eliminated as > > possibilities, the first two are just not supported by sufficient evidence to > > warrant the conclusions that were made. > > I think you effectively illustrate attitudes that lead us to accept conclusions of and act upon > "junk " science. I believe that if you examine the case for all three of the topics > mentioned, you will be led to the inescapable conclusion that "Junk" science is alive and well. > Some of these nutty ideas only gain popular acceptance because of the tendency for the liberal > media to publicize them - they fit well into the environmentalist agenda. Theories such as 'global warming' and the 'ozone hole' do not fall in the same category as 'cold fusion'. Science is driven by hypotheses and theories, and the history of science is replete with the rise and fall of many theories. There is ongoing debate about the merits of the ones you mention, in which many scientists support the ideas and some do not. Obviously, you do not agree with the conclusions, but you present no data to buttress your point. You just summarily dismiss the theories and the atmospheric studies regarding them as 'junk' science. > "Possibilities" don't necessarily merit action which will cause serious economic dislocations. > The "Carbon Tax" comes to mind. Sounds as if you have a political agenda as well. > > (2) That weather is ultimately unpredictable does not mean that extending > > forecasts is not useful. Chaos theory indicated that predicting the behavior > > of self-iterating systems using incomplete data can be expected to be > > unsuccessful over the course of a certain amount of time. > > > > You misstate my point. > > Chaos theory indicates quite convincingly that there are severe limits on the ability of > computers to make long term weather predictions because we simply 1) can never model the > physical weather interactions adequately, 2) we can never have enough knowledge of initial > condidtions to put into our model to get long term results. We might as well put research > money into perpetual motion. That was my point. Attempting to predict the weather in Fargo, North Dakota at any particular time is entirely different from making estimations about changes in the average global temperature and other parameters. Different differential equations are involved in these two probelms. Chaos theory is relevant in the first problem, not the second. And, are you suggesting that all the work being done to increase the speed of computers for simulations of air flow over a wing, nuclear explosions, dynamics of molecules, (the list goes on) is a waste of money and time? Finally, While I share Dr. Gold's concern regarding how decisions are made regarding science grant dollars (my future in science depends in part on it), I do not believe that the example he cites, sufficiently supports the idea of 'brazen inefficiency' in science which might be easily remedied. The history of science is erratic - some ideas find acceptance easily and rapidly and are eventually found to be wrong, as some ideas are accepted slowly - supported only by a few people working alone (how long did it take for the notion that proton gradients across the mitochondrial membrane drive ATP synthesis to be accepted, many years in the wilderness did Mitchell work). Human factors such as 'politics', 'who is a friend of who,' etc. undoubtedly, affect what ideas are accepted and pursued, but I doubt that the 'system' can be anything more than tweaked with regards its efficiency in the pursuit of the 'truth'. The problem, as I see it, is that there appears to be many more scientists chasing fewer dollars. However, this is not the same problem as scientific efficiency. Richard Kondo Cardiovascular Research Lab UCLA From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Tue May 07 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!usenet From: Andrea Reiman Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Endo/ecto calories Date: 8 May 1996 21:23:20 GMT Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4mr3c8$8ou@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1131.rmii.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 32bit) -- Can anyone give me an estimate for about how many calories an average ectotherm uses (per day) verses an endotherm? From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!CYLLENE.UWA.EDU.AU!xywang From: xywang@CYLLENE.UWA.EDU.AU ("Xueyong Wang") Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Electrode visualisation Date: 8 May 1996 19:44:22 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 19 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199605090241.KAA03872@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear All, We tried to impale retrogradely (Fast Blue) labelled neurons in brain slices and do some intracellular recordings if possible. We filled the electrodes with Lucifer Yellow dissolved in 1M LiCl (it seems not to be dissolved in any solution containing K ion !), however, this just killed the cell quickly no matter whether the cell was fast blue labelled or not. Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated X. Wang ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Department of Physiology The University of Western Australia Nedlands, Perth 6907, AUSTRALIA Tel: 61-9-3803559; Fax: 61-9-3801025 Emai: xywang@cyllene.uwa.edu.au ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!not-for-mail From: ghconkli@bessel.nando.net (Gconklin) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: 9 May 1996 06:43:21 -0400 Organization: Nando.Net Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4msi89$jt9@bessel.nando.net> References: <4mqk1n$hah@cosmos.uthscsa.edu> <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bessel.nando.net Xref: biosci bionet.general:21568 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:957 bionet.cellbiol:4649 bionet.glycosci:676 bionet.biophysics:1958 bionet.molbio.ageing:2709 bionet.molbio.proteins:7845 bionet.neuroscience:14017 sci.med:122897 sci.research.careers:10178 talk.politics.medicine:51311 In article <4mr09v$14q1@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> bgold@itsa.ucsf.edu (Bert Gold) writes: +Dr. Deneke, + + +Further, in my telephone conversation with Dr. Levine last week, +he admitted to me that funding at NIH for nutrition was "political". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +Bert Gold +San Francisco + + Steve believes, Bert, that all his political statments are true science. If Pauling can be as severely criticized as he was, then anyone can. Rational research into vitamins and other foods which cannot be patented and sold on prescription will be ridiculed by the medical-industrial establishment forever. If the medical establishment could ridicule the germ theory of disease for years and years, it can ridicule anyting....and will. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!CS.Arizona.EDU!news.Arizona.EDU!hamblin.math.byu.edu!acs2.byu.edu!news.cuny.edu!caen!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!news From: Gerald Pollack Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Electrode visualisation Date: 9 May 1996 13:24:45 GMT Organization: Dept. of Biology, McGill University Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4msrmt$isk@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> References: <199605090241.KAA03872@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: jiminy.biol.mcgill.ca X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) Someone (Molecular Probes?) sells a potassium salt of LY. Are you sure that the problem is the lithium, and not light-induced cell death of LY-filled cells (i.e.unintentional photoinactivation)? From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Wed May 08 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU!Spadaroj From: Spadaroj@VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU (Joe Spadaro) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: PHYS REG CONFERENCE Date: 9 May 1996 10:22:59 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 49 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Dear colleagues, This is a follow-up on the next "PHYSICAL REGULATION" conference of the Society for Physical Regulation in Biology and Medicine (SPRBM) in Chicago, Oct. 9-12, 1996. The Program Committee Chair (Prof. Subrata Saha) has asked me to say that the ABSTRACT DUE DATE IS 31 MAY, not 10 May as was stated earlier. This gives us all extra time to get in a contributed abstract. If any of you are working in areas that relate to the control of biological systems by physical forces (mechanical, electromagnetic, ultrasound, thermal...), including cell mechanics, bone remodeling, growth and repair stimulation, etc., this is where you have an opportunity to share your new findings and/or get useful feedback and hot ideas for tomorrows grant proposals. ABSTRACT FORMAT and SUBMISSION: (by 31 MAY) Use high quality, crisp type to allow photo-reproduction. Title, bold and centered; below that, authors and affiliations, centered. 500 word, single spaced abstract (right and left justified if possible) with 1 inch margins on 8.5 x 11.0 inch paper. One (1) page; a second page can be used to include figures and tables. The abstract should be substantive and give results of original work done. SEND TO: Soc. for Physical Regulation in Biology and Medicine 9650 Rockville Pike Bethesda, Maryland 20814, U.S.A. For updated program information as it becomes available please contact: tel: 301-571-0680 Fax: 301-530-7049 E-mail: sprbm@faseb.org Remember also the 3 special instructive symposia with leading experts: 1. Mechanical factors on VERTEBRATE EVOLUTION (dinosaurs, etc.). 2. OSTEOARTHRITIS and physical forces. 3. MECHANICAL SIGNAL transduction in cells. Joe Spadaro Joseph A. Spadaro, Ph.D. Associate Professor - Orthopedic Research S.U.N.Y. Health Science Center - Syracuse spadaroj@vax.cs.hscsyr.edu From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!newshub.csu.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!xmission!news.cc.utah.edu!howard!patrick From: Patrick Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.glycosci,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:24:20 -0600 Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: howard.genetics.utah.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: patrick@howard In-Reply-To: <4mo83n$103v@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> Xref: biosci bionet.general:21587 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:962 bionet.cellbiol:4665 bionet.glycosci:682 bionet.biophysics:1963 bionet.molbio.ageing:2711 bionet.molbio.proteins:7849 bionet.neuroscience:14037 sci.med:123063 sci.research.careers:10198 talk.politics.medicine:51360 On 7 May 1996, Bert Gold wrote: > >Just look at research on "Cold Fusion", "Global Warming", and "The Ozone > >Hole" for further examples of the poor quality of some recent so-called > >scientific research. > > > The ozone hole is quite real. You might look up articles by Sherwood > Rowland written in the last 10 years if you don't believe me, or if > you have qualms about the quality of the research. The evidence > on global warming is mixed to the best of my knowledge. > I believe that the basis for the conclusions is careful work on ice cores. > Why you put either of these in the same category as cold fusion > is beyond me; perhaps you can cite review articles in real journals > that indicate the poor quality of the science? Yeah...any article published by "scientists" working for the petroleum industry or for any company involved in production of CFCs. As an (big) aside, I have a major problem with scientists who go to work for such companies unless their role is simply to produce a new product or process. Beyond that, industry has no place in determining if what they WANT to produce (or already produce) is harmful to people or the environment. It is fiscally bad policy for a company scientist to produce any data that is contrary to the desires of the corporate heads and top shareholders. OK, now that I got that off my chest, back to our normal programming. patrick From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!LEX.LCCC.EDU!rcb1 From: rcb1@LEX.LCCC.EDU (Ron Blue) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: how do birds scream without deafening themselves? Date: 10 May 1996 08:58:46 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 14 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4muduq$m0v@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On 10 May 1996, Adam Sundor wrote: > Deborah, > I wondered about that myself, especially after seeing the owls, > like a GHO, whose ear-head is really a parabolic reflector. > I know what happens to humans who use those parabolic reflectors > without special ciruitry to dampen the amplified sounds when > they get too loud. > > Maybe the birds have a "mute" switch whenever they scream, they > turn down the audio amplifiers in their little heads? Well yes, you are correct. The circuit is an opponent wavelet. If you need to know more ask me for Correlational Opponent-Processing: A Unifying Principle. Ron Blue From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!DARTMOUTH.EDU!Tomasz.Panz From: Tomasz.Panz@DARTMOUTH.EDU (Tomasz Panz) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: how do birds scream without deafening themselves? Date: 10 May 1996 09:43:42 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 9 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <19766280@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Hello, I know that one of the favourite birds people are hunting in Poland took his Polish name (roughly: deaf bird; sorry I do not know its English name) from the well recognized deafness during singing. I do not know the mechanism of this momentary deafness - it might be some anatomical attenuator or something Ron Blue mentioned in his message. Tom Panz From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news From: atteson@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Kevin Atteson) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization Date: 10 May 1996 18:17:50 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 34 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4n018e$t9k@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu I'm interested in the thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization. In particular, I'm interested in the relationship between melting temperature, Gibbs free energy and the proportion of hybridized strands at different temperatures. Please mail me any references (atteson@dnamite.humgen.upenn.edu) on this topic. I'll now say what I believe to be true and I would appreciate anyone more versed in thermodynamics who can correct me. The following equations hold (I'm using D for delta): DG = DH - T DS DG = -R T ln K where K represents the relative proportion of hybridized to unhybridized strands. At the melting temperature, Tm, we have that K = 1 (or close to it) and so: DH = Tm DS Therefore, at an arbitrary temperature, T, the equilibrium constant K can be written as: K = exp( - (Tm - T)DS/(R T) ) Is this correct? Thanks, Kevin Atteson atteson@dnamite.humgen.upenn.edu From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!BIOSCI.MBP.MISSOURI.EDU!hmeekes From: hmeekes@BIOSCI.MBP.MISSOURI.EDU (Herman Meekes) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: how do birds scream without deafening themselves? Date: 10 May 1996 11:24:52 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 53 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net On May 10, 1996 Deborah Wisti-Peterson wrote >>hello all. i am busily thinking up questions that seem to have no >>known answer (i am studying for my qualifying exams; thus thinking >>of impossible questions is part of my job description at the moment!). >>certainly, these questions seem to have no easily accessible answers. >>so i thought that there might be an expert out there who may be able >>to help me find sources that will provide an aswer to one of my questions. >> >>since i spend much time around birds, i am amazed at the LOUDNESS of >>their song...a 15 gram chickadee song really travels FAR (at least one >>city block)...and a screaming parrot is a real sound terrorist! so, i >>want to know how birds can make such loud noises without making >>themselves DEAF? >> >>-- >> Deborah Wisti-Peterson email:nyneve@u.washington.edu >>Department of Zoology, University of Washington, Seattle, Wash, USA >> Visit me on the web: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~nyneve/ >>=-=-=-Graduate School: it's not just a job, it's an indenture!=-=-= >> Although there may have been real research into this, I am not aware of that. On the other hand, it is known (sorry cannot give a reference) that bats, when they produce their echo locating sounds, have a mechanism of disconnecting their auditory nerve (to prevent deafening and confusion). Birds might use a similar technique. Contemplating further on this: why is it that when humans shout (try for yourself), this does not make them deaf. Probably also in mammals there are factors in the anatomy and physiology, as well as in the physics of sound production that prevent deafening. One factor to consider is that normally sound travels AWAY from the producer. It may actually be louder to a bystander than to the person shouting (if you have kids or younger siblings, you probably know what I'm talking about). Not a definitive answer, just my two cents worth Herman Meekes Biological Sciences ______________ ______________ University of Missouri ---__ \ / __--- 109 Tucker Hall ------__\---/__------ Columbia, MO. 65211, USA \( )/ Tel: 573-882-0171 V Fax: 573-882-0123 / \ e-mail: hmeekes@biosci.mbp.missouri.edu /___\ From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!springer From: springer@immsvr.jr2.ox.ac.uk. (springer) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: fluorescence polarisation/anisotropy instrument Date: 10 May 1996 17:39:02 GMT Organization: Oxford University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4mvuvm$gng@news.ox.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: immmac42.jr2.ox.ac.uk X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@news.ox.ac.uk. hi - we would like to measure steady-state anisotropy of the tryptophan fluorescence of a receptor to look at conformational changes during ligand binding (in the 1-10 minutes range). Can anyone name a good fluorimeter that would do these things, or point me towards someone who has a custom-built instrument? The PerkinElmer LS-50B that we use for routine fluorescence has a polariser accessory with 'fast filter change' but the quality of the polarisers they make is not good enough as we are looking at small differences. Any help GREATLY appreciated. Sebastian Springer Institute of Molecular Medicine, Oxford, UK sebastian.springer@clinical-medicine.oxford.ac.uk From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!usenet From: shasta Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Just a thought and a question... Date: 10 May 1996 21:58:27 GMT Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4n0e63$433@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1183.rmii.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 32bit) -- Hypothetically, could humans one day recieve all of our daily nutrients in a single pill? From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Thu May 09 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.i-link.net!usenet From: Karl Kortemeyer Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Call for Papers Date: 10 May 1996 20:14:16 GMT Organization: I-Link Inc Lines: 51 Message-ID: <4n082o$154c@news.i-link.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dallas-1-9.i-link.net ============================================================================== CALL FOR PAPERS Second Annual Advanced Water Sciences Symposium October 4,5,6, 1996 Dallas, Texas USA This conference/symposium is hosted by the Institute for Advanced Water Sciences Research. IAWSR is a not for profit membership association dedicated to the promotion of advanced water science and the free exchange of ideas that contribute to the advancement of water science. The Institute provides a forum for members and contributing individuals to express their ideas in water related subjects in hard science, interdisciplinary studies and exploratory areas. Members also receive access to information and resources on water science. ______________________________________________________________________________ Papers dealing with, but not limited to, the following topics are solicited for presentation on October 5th and 6th in Dallas, Texas. Hard Science: hydrodynamics, water purification technology, electrolysis, bond angle relationships and energy states, environmental issues, photo chemistry ionics, ORP, chemistry. oxidative states in water, Interdisciplinary: vortex mechanics, magnetic resonance in water, radio frequency effects on water, energy systems utilizing water dynamics or structure, energization states in water, magnetic field effects on water dynamics and structure, homeopathic effects in relationship to energized water, structured water, liquid crystal states, advanced techniques in ozonation, colloidal chemistry Exploratory: subtle energy effects in water, consciousness and water, energization and transformation in the water molecule, effects of harmonic geometries on water, biological effects of energized and structured water, memory in water states, scalar wave effects on water. Please submit your final paper or 2 or 4 page extended abstract by June 30, 1996 to the contact person listed below. Questions and comments welcome. Contact person: Karl Kortemeyer P.O. Box 1295 Dallas, Texas 75355-1295 214/249-2001 FAX 214/340-7020 e-mail: itc@i-link.net From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Fri May 10 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!farwood.demon.co.uk!Bill From: Bill Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 16:16:20 +0100 Organization: home Lines: 52 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <50jYvCAE9KlxEwRP@farwood.demon.co.uk> References: <4n018e$t9k@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: farwood.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: farwood.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.10 In article <4n018e$t9k@netnews.upenn.edu>, Kevin Atteson writes > >I'm interested in the thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization. >In particular, I'm interested in the relationship between >melting temperature, Gibbs free energy and the proportion >of hybridized strands at different temperatures. > >Please mail me any references (atteson@dnamite.humgen.upenn.edu) >on this topic. > >I'll now say what I believe to be true and I would appreciate >anyone more versed in thermodynamics who can correct me. >The following equations hold (I'm using D for delta): > > DG = DH - T DS > > DG = -R T ln K > >where K represents the relative proportion of hybridized >to unhybridized strands. At the melting temperature, Tm, >we have that K = 1 (or close to it) and so: > > DH = Tm DS > >Therefore, at an arbitrary temperature, T, the equilibrium >constant K can be written as: > > K = exp( - (Tm - T)DS/(R T) ) > >Is this correct? > I'm not an expert but as Baker points out you can't assume DH constant. Or that Cp is const. For inorganic molecules this would be a reasonable starting assumption but it turns out it is quite wrong for large biomolecules. My statement is based on a 3rd level course S327 "Living processes" I am following with the Open Univ here in the UK. Book 2 "Bioenergetics" section 2.5.2 Enthalpy changes in macromolecular processes. ...Theodor Benzinger showed bond enthalpy per base pair rising exponentially with temp instead of remaining flat ... ! (during unwinding) You need to check the refs ---start -- Benzinger T.H. (1971) Nature 229 pp.100 -102 "Thermodynamics, chemical reactions ...." Wish there was a thermodynamics newsgroup (can't see one) -- Bill From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Fri May 10 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!ns1.faseb.org!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.ksu.ksu.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!usenet From: brian-baker@uiowa.edu (Brian M. Baker) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization Date: 10 May 1996 21:14:09 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Department of Biochemistry Lines: 71 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4n0bj1$ri0@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <4n018e$t9k@netnews.upenn.edu> Reply-To: brian-baker@uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: reaper.biochem.uiowa.edu X-Newsreader: NeoLogic News for OS/2 [version: 4.5c 999] In message <4n018e$t9k@netnews.upenn.edu> - atteson@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Kevin Atteson)10 May 1996 18:17:50 GMT writes: :> :> :>I'm interested in the thermodynamics of DNA/DNA hybridization. :>In particular, I'm interested in the relationship between :>melting temperature, Gibbs free energy and the proportion :>of hybridized strands at different temperatures. :> :>Please mail me any references (atteson@dnamite.humgen.upenn.edu) :>on this topic. :> :>I'll now say what I believe to be true and I would appreciate :>anyone more versed in thermodynamics who can correct me. :>The following equations hold (I'm using D for delta): :> :> DG = DH - T DS :> :> DG = -R T ln K :> :>where K represents the relative proportion of hybridized :>to unhybridized strands. At the melting temperature, Tm, :>we have that K = 1 (or close to it) and so: :> :> DH = Tm DS :> :>Therefore, at an arbitrary temperature, T, the equilibrium :>constant K can be written as: :> :> K = exp( - (Tm - T)DS/(R T) ) :> :>Is this correct? :> :>Thanks, :> :>Kevin Atteson :>atteson@dnamite.humgen.upenn.edu Pretty close. Realize that DS in your last term refers to DS at the melting temperature; you'll need to include heat capacity effects at another temperature. For protein unfolding, this is usually written from an enthalpic perspective (it's easier to measure DH "directly") K = exp(-(DH-T(DHm/Tm)+DCp((T-Tm)-Tln(T/Tm)))/RT) , assuming a temperature independent DCp. Also note that since DNA melting is a bimolecular reaction, there will be a concentration dependence to DS and thus DG; any measured DS will have to be corrected if you want it to refer to the usual standard state of 1 molar: DS(standard state)=DS(measured)+RT ln Q where Q = [DNA]^2 / [DNA] Although I've never looked for any, I imagine there's lots of literature on this sort of treatment of DNA hybridization/melting. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Brian M. Baker brian-baker@uiowa.edu Graduate Student Peon Protein Structural Energetics "I am becalmed and virtured, lost Department of Biochemistry to nothing on a bay of dreams..." University of Iowa -Blue Oyster Cult =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Fri May 10 23:00:00 1996 Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics,bionet.diagnostics,sci.med.radiology.inyerventional,sci.engr.biomed,soc.culture.german,sci.image.processing,comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc,alt.lang.delphi,sci.physics.electromag,sci.techniques.mag-resonance,sci.med.physics,sci.med.radiology Path: biosci!daresbury!yama.mcc.ac.uk!thor.cf.ac.uk!news From: schneider@cf.ac.uk Subject: new Electrical impedance tomography resource page - student projects - Studien-&Diplomarbeiten Sender: news@cf.ac.uk (USENET News System) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:44:10 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: d106.elsy.cf.ac.uk Organization: Heaven X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ Lines: 17 Xref: biosci bionet.biophysics:1976 bionet.diagnostics:791 sci.engr.biomed:6081 soc.culture.german:81529 sci.image.processing:20106 comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc:37666 sci.physics.electromag:10165 sci.techniques.mag-resonance:1639 sci.med.physics:4310 sci.med.radiology:5996 A new biomedical orientated webpage focussing Electrical Impedance Tomography (EIT) can be found at http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/engin/Systems/medical/ingo/ingo.html This page contains a resource list and descriptions of currently available student project work related to EIT. Speziell deutsche Universita"tstudenten ko"nnen im Rahmen des ERASMUS Programms ihre Studien-oder Diplomarbeit in der Medical Systems Unit anfertigen. Na"hre Infos in deutscher Sprache sind ebenfall auf der oben angegebenen webpage zu finden. I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks ingo From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sat May 11 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!PEGASUS.CC.UCF.EDU!rwallace From: rwallace@PEGASUS.CC.UCF.EDU (Ronald L Wallace) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: how do birds scream without deafening themselves? Date: 12 May 1996 09:56:57 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 38 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4mu7t6$lpt@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Hello Deborah. I am a biological anthropologist, not an ornithologist, but I may have the beginnings of an answer. In the case of bats (a mammal, of course, not a bird at all) the neurology of their hearing system momentarily "shuts down" during the high-frequency emission, so as not to cause damage to their hearing. The source which discusses this in extensive detail (and provides references) is The Blind Watchmaker by biologist Richard Dawkins. Maybe birds have a version of this adaptation? Good luck. Ron Wallace, Ph.D. Department of Anthropology and Sociology University of Central Florida Orlando, FL 32816 On 10 May 1996, 'Gavia immer' Deborah Wisti-Peterson wrote: > hello all. i am busily thinking up questions that seem to have no > known answer (i am studying for my qualifying exams; thus thinking > of impossible questions is part of my job description at the moment!). > certainly, these questions seem to have no easily accessible answers. > so i thought that there might be an expert out there who may be able > to help me find sources that will provide an aswer to one of my questions. > > since i spend much time around birds, i am amazed at the LOUDNESS of > their song...a 15 gram chickadee song really travels FAR (at least one > city block)...and a screaming parrot is a real sound terrorist! so, i > want to know how birds can make such loud noises without making > themselves DEAF? > > -- > Deborah Wisti-Peterson email:nyneve@u.washington.edu > Department of Zoology, University of Washington, Seattle, Wash, USA > Visit me on the web: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~nyneve/ > =-=-=-Graduate School: it's not just a job, it's an indenture!=-=-= > > From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sat May 11 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!igi.tu-graz.ac.at!maass From: maass@igi.tu-graz.ac.at (Wolfgang Maass) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: 2 papers on spiking versus sigmoidal neurons Date: 12 May 1996 12:19:48 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 94 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199605121917.AA22754@figids03.tu-graz.ac.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net 1) The file maass.third-generation.ps.Z is now available for copying from the Neuroprose repository. This is a 23-page long paper. Hardcopies are not available. FTP-host: archive.cis.ohio-state.edu FTP-filename: /pub/neuroprose/maass.third-generation.ps.Z Networks of Spiking Neurons: The Third Generation of Neural Network Models Wolfgang Maass Institute for Theoretical Computer Science Technische Universitaet Graz Klosterwiesgasse 32/2 A-8010 Graz, Austria e-mail: maass@igi.tu-graz.ac.at Abstract The computational power of formal models for networks of spiking neurons is compared with that of traditional neural network models based on McCulloch Pitts neurons (i.e. threshold gates) respectively sigmoidal gates. It is shown that networks of spiking neurons are computationally more powerful than threshold circuits and sigmoidal neural nets of the same size. A concrete biologically relevant function is exhibited which can be computed by a single spiking neuron (for biologically reasonable values of its parameters), but which requires hundreds of hidden units on a sigmoidal neural net. This article does not assume prior knowledge about spiking neurons, and it contains an extensive list of references to the currently available literature on computations in networks of spiking neurons and relevant results from neurobiology. *************************************************************** 2) The file maass.sigmoidal-spiking.ps.Z is now also available for copying from the Neuroprose repository. This is a 27-page long paper. Hardcopies are not available. FTP-host: archive.cis.ohio-state.edu FTP-filename: /pub/neuroprose/maass.sigmoidal-spiking.ps.Z An Efficient Implementation of Sigmoidal Neural Nets in Temporal Coding with Noisy Spiking Neurons Wolfgang Maass Institute for Theoretical Computer Science Technische Universitaet Graz Klosterwiesgasse 32/2 A-8010 Graz, Austria e-mail: maass@igi.tu-graz.ac.at Abstract We show that networks of spiking neurons can simulate arbitrary feedforward sigmoidal neural nets in a way which has previously not been considered. This new approach is based on temporal coding by single spikes (respectively by the timing of synchronous firing in pools of neurons), rather than on the traditional interpretation of analog variables in terms of firing rates. It is based on the observation that incoming "postsynaptic potentials" can SHIFT the firing time of a spiking neuron. The resulting new simulation is substantially faster and hence more consistent with experimental results about the speed of information processing in cortical neural systems. As a consequence we can show that networks of noisy spiking neurons are "universal approximators" in the sense that they can approximate with regard to temporal coding any given continuous function of several variables. This result holds for a fairly large class of schemes for coding analog variables by firing times of spiking neurons. Our new proposal for the possible organization of computations in networks of spiking neurons systems has some interesting consequences for the type of learning rules that would be needed to explain the self-organization of such networks. Finally, our fast and noise-robust implementation of sigmoidal neural nets via temporal coding points to possible new ways of implementing feedforward and recurrent sigmoidal neural nets with pulse stream VLSI. (To appear in Neural Computation.) From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!daresbury!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.york.ac.uk!news From: Chris Elliott Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Electrode visualisation Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:09:09 -0700 Organization: The University of York, UK Lines: 29 Message-ID: <319796E5.562A@york.ac.uk> References: <199605090241.KAA03872@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: biolpc9.york.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (Win16; I) CC: xywang@cyllene.uwa.edu.au Xueyong Wang wrote: > > Dear All, > > We tried to impale retrogradely (Fast Blue) labelled neurons in > brain slices and do some intracellular recordings if possible. We filled the > electrodes with Lucifer Yellow dissolved in 1M LiCl (it seems not to > be dissolved in any solution containing K ion !), however, this just > killed the cell quickly no matter whether the cell was fast > blue labelled or not. > > Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated > > X. Wang > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Department of Physiology > The University of Western Australia > Nedlands, Perth 6907, AUSTRALIA > Tel: 61-9-3803559; Fax: 61-9-3801025 > Emai: xywang@cyllene.uwa.edu.au > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What kind of illuminator are you using; If you reduce the blue light it will work fine. I always dissolve the Lucifer yellow in distilled water, but if you want something that conducts better use 5(6) carboxyfluorescein at pH 7 (normally very acid). Buy it from Eastman Kodak (much cheaper than sigma) chris From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics,bionet.diagnostics,sci.med.radiology.interventional,sci.engr.biomed,soc.culture.german,sci.image.processing,comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc,alt.lang.delphi,sci.physics.electromag,sci.techniques.mag-resonance,sci.med.physics,sci.med.radiology Path: biosci!daresbury!yama.mcc.ac.uk!thor.cf.ac.uk!news From: Ingo Schneider Subject: Studien- und Diplomarbeiten / biomedical engin. student project work Sender: news@cf.ac.uk (USENET News System) Message-ID: <3197AC2E.2E35@cf.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:39:58 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: d106.elsy.cf.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) Organization: UWC Lines: 37 Xref: biosci bionet.biophysics:1980 bionet.diagnostics:793 sci.med.radiology.interventional:24 sci.engr.biomed:6115 soc.culture.german:81741 sci.image.processing:20135 comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc:37876 sci.physics.electromag:10197 sci.techniques.mag-resonance:1644 sci.med.physics:4317 sci.med.radiology:6015 schneider@cf.ac.uk wrote: > > A new biomedical orientated webpage focussing Electrical Impedance Tomography (EIT) > can be found at > http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/engin/Systems/medical/ingo/ingo.html > > This page contains a resource list and descriptions of currently > available student project work related to EIT. > > Speziell deutsche Universita"tstudenten ko"nnen im Rahmen des ERASMUS > Programms ihre Studien-oder Diplomarbeit in der Medical Systems Unit > anfertigen. Na"hre Infos in deutscher Sprache sind ebenfall auf der > oben angegebenen webpage zu finden. > > I would appreciate any feedback. > > Thanks > > ingoschneider@cf.ac.uk wrote: > > A new biomedical orientated webpage focussing Electrical Impedance Tomography (EIT) > can be found at > http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/engin/Systems/medical/ingo/ingo.html > > This page contains a resource list and descriptions of currently > available student project work related to EIT. > > Speziell deutsche Universita"tstudenten ko"nnen im Rahmen des ERASMUS > Programms ihre Studien-oder Diplomarbeit in der Medical Systems Unit > anfertigen. Na"hre Infos in deutscher Sprache sind ebenfall auf der > oben angegebenen webpage zu finden. > > I would appreciate any feedback. > > Thanks > > ingo From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!STD From: STD@revealer.demon.co.uk (Simon Dobbs) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: DNA, Ethidium, and Nicking Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:44:55 +0000 Organization: Dobbs Research Lines: 49 Message-ID: <199605132244551375654@revealer.demon.co.uk> References: <3184D366.4A1C@sarnoff.com> <3184DB6E.64B1DFC0@mackiller.llnl.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: revealer.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: revealer.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.0 Chris Barry wrote: > Hi, > Why dont you try this: > 1) Dut you DNA in a tube w/EtBr and expose it to UV light > 2) Run an alkaline gel. This should melt away the 2 strands of DNA so > that it runs through as a single strand. If you get a discrete band, > that would indicate that there isn't too much nicking going on. A smear > would indicate more degradation. You could do this for several samples > with different exposure times and intensities to determine the rate of > nicking. > You might need to find a dye specific for single stranded DNA. I cant > thik of any now but I am sure they exist. > > Chris > > Daniel Fishman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > DNA is often visually detected by observation of the fluorescence of > > bound ethidium. When near-UV light is shined on a solution of DNA > > with bound ethidium some of the DNA becomes nicked. I'm interested in > > finding out the rate of this process, in order to be able to judge how > > much nicking will occur for a given concentration of ethidium and a > > given intensity of light. If anyone should know of a good reference > > for this information, or can think of a name that might speed up my > > literature search, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks. > > > > -Daniel Fishman dfishman@sarnoff.com or alternatively try the nicking expt with supercoiled plasmid- a ***single*** nick will relax this such that it runs very differently on a native agarose gel- both unnicked and nicked species run as single bands rather than smears- hence quantifiable. Probably much more sensitive. No need for special dye. Strangley enough, from my own experience (and that of colleagues) supercoiled DNA (in the absence of ethidium) undergoes more rapid nicking in buffer at -20C than 4C- both in the dark. I don't know of any published work on this, but anyone working with supercoiled DNA is acutely sensitive to such nicking, hence relaxing, of DNA. Try Dr Andrew Bates of Liverpool University, England or Dr Tony Maxwell of Leicester University, England Simon Dobbs PhD STD@revealer.demon.co.uk Compuserve100115,1440 -- Panta rhei- Heraclitus From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.emi.com!pauling.wadsworth.org!tivol From: tivol@news.wadsworth.org (William Tivol) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Just a thought and a question... Date: 13 May 1996 17:46:10 GMT Organization: Wadsworth Center, NY Health Dept. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4n7sh2$fca@pauling.wadsworth.org> References: <4n0e63$433@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alcor.wadsworth.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] shasta (shasta@rmii.com) wrote: : Hypothetically, could humans one day recieve all of our daily : nutrients in a single pill? Dear Shasta, At 2200 cal/day and with 1 lb butter = 3500 cal, the pill would have to be more than 500 ml in volume, and if humans would still require fiber, the pill would have to be much larger. In any event, I would much rather have a few good meals per day than try to ram down a pill. Yours, Bill Tivol From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!PHYSICAL36.CHEM.UFL.EDU!alex From: alex@PHYSICAL36.CHEM.UFL.EDU (alex) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Everglades tragedy and SONAR imaging Date: 13 May 1996 12:38:36 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 39 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199605131840.OAA02210@physical36.chem.ufl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Is there somebody on this list who has experience in SONAR imaging? Please review the contents of the following message, and get in touch with Tom Mareci. Thanks, Alex Angerhofer. Forwarded message: > From thmareci@csbnmr.health.ufl.edu Mon May 13 14:14:18 1996 > Date: Mon, 13 May 96 15:02:42 EDT > Message-Id: <9605131902.AA17114@csbnmr.health.ufl.edu> > X-Sender: thmareci@csbnmr.health.ufl.edu > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: rabba@mse.ufl.edu, "E. Raymond Andrew" , > alex@chem.ufl.edu, Jim Dufty , eyler@chem.ufl.edu, > "Dr. Jeff Fitzsimmons" , > ww_harrison@sfa.ufl.edu, kholbro@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu, > rlj@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu, "William Luttge" , > David Reitze , schuster@icbr.ifas.ufl.edu, > scottk@xray1.xray.ufl.edu, Neil Sullivan , > tulenko@ufl.edu > From: thmareci@csbnmr.health.ufl.edu (Tom Mareci) > Subject: Everglades tragedy and imging > Cc: imagesci@neptune.phys.ufl.edu, > "Karen Holbrook" > > Everyone, > > I was contacted by Julie Strandlie, a UF representative in > Washington, who inquired whether we had any ideas on imaging for the > detection of bodies and airplane parts in the swampy waters of the > Everglades. She is trying to help Senator Mack's office with any possible > ideas to help in the recovery process. Please let me know as soon as > possible today, if you can suggest anything. > > Tom Mareci > From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!CS.Arizona.EDU!noao!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!gatech!udel!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.ACO.net!mail.boku.ac.at!news From: Iain Wilson Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.biology.cardiovascular,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.biophysics,bionet.molbio.ageing,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med,sci.research.careers,talk.politics,talk.politics.medicine Subject: Re: PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:57:28 -0700 Organization: Universität für Bodenkultur Wien Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31977808.7C1B@edv1.boku.ac.at> References: <318E9B47.285B@indirect.com> <4motdh$3mfi@b.stat.purdue.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.244.58.101 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) CC: dnoche@shell.wco.com, pats@sco.com, patrick@howard.genetics.utah.edu, rkondo@ephys.ucla.edu, ghconkli@bessel.nando.net, mp@eng.tridom.com, S.Deneke@dl.ac.uk, srussell@ou.edu, johnk@indirect.com Xref: biosci bionet.general:21637 bionet.biology.cardiovascular:971 bionet.cellbiol:4683 bionet.biophysics:1983 bionet.molbio.ageing:2716 bionet.molbio.proteins:7875 bionet.neuroscience:14072 sci.med:123473 sci.research.careers:10237 talk.politics.medicine:51508 To all those whom it may concern: PLEASE DO NOT CROSSPOST THIS 'PAULING, SZENT-GYORGYI, VITAMIN C AND ME' THREAD TO BIONET.GLYCOSCI. Please check the reply headers before promiscuously sending irrelevant posts to specialist newsgroups. Bionet.glycosci is meant as a place for professional discussions of glycoconjugate structure, function and analysis - and Vitamin C / ascorbate is not a glycoconjugate!! I am sure that some other bionet newsgroups listed are also not the place for the present discussion. I have already requested the first three posters individually to not cross-post and it appears that they have abided by this request, but another 15 or so posts on the subject were clogging up the newsgroup this morning. Therefore I am making this request to all the other newsgroups listed in the header for these posts (as well as the latest contributors to the thread) so as to make a pre-emptive request. I thank you in advance for your co-operation, Dr. Iain Wilson co-discussion leader glycosci newsgroup -- Iain Wilson Institut fuer Chemie Tel: 43-1-47654-6065 Universitaet fuer Bodenkultur Fax: 43-1-310-5176 Gregor-Mendel-Strasse 33 E-mail: wilson@edv1.boku.ac.at A-1180, WIEN, Austria From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Sun May 12 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!tvaughan From: tvaughan@athena.mit.edu (Timothy E Vaughan) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Just a thought and a question... Date: 13 May 1996 14:04:32 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4n7fhg$6kp@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> References: <4n0e63$433@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: milanese.mit.edu In article <4n0e63$433@natasha.rmii.com>, shasta writes: |> Hypothetically, could humans one day recieve all of our daily |> nutrients in a single pill? Yes, depending on your definition of "pill". Imagine taking all of the food you ate yesterday, and molding it into your daily pill. It might take you a while to consume it. (Also, take it with LARGE glass of water.) I think I've been spending too much time in rec.puzzles. Tim From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 13 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nctuccca.edu.tw!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!news.cis.nctu.edu.tw!usenet From: Kevin Hu Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Do sombody know waht is a magnetic water? Date: 14 May 1996 12:27:39 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer & Information Science, NCTU, Taiwan Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4n9u7r$92u@news.cis.nctu.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: @203.66.182.70 Recently there are a lot of commercially product available "magnetic"water in Taiwan and Japan, I don't know waht it is, If somebody know the detail of what water will be if a magnetic field was apply to it, Please mail to my e-mail box or discuss with everybody one the world. From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 13 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!BIOFIZ.MF.UNI-LJ.SI!peterlin From: peterlin@BIOFIZ.MF.UNI-LJ.SI (Primoz Peterlin) Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Re: Speaking the Unspoken Date: 14 May 1996 00:30:30 -0700 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 19 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net > Please pardon me if I, in the interest of world peace, > trouble you one more time. I am writing in the hope, however > small, that I might open a dialogue. It is abundantly clear to > me that we are telepathic. ... > ... > Richard L. Nacamuli "E per si muove" > headwave@access.digex.net Galileo I am not telepathic and thus unable to guess what Galileo Galilei _meant to say_, but what he allegedly _did say_ was "Eppur si muove". My small contribution to the world peace... -- Primoz -- Primoz Peterlin (peterlin@biofiz.mf.uni-lj.si) Fax:+386-61-131-5127 Institut za biofiziko MF, Lipiceva 2, SLO-1105 Ljubljana, Slovenija WWW page: http://sizif.mf.uni-lj.si/~peterlin/ From owner-biophysics@net.bio.net Mon May 13 23:00:00 1996 Path: biosci!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!access5.digex.net!headwave From: Richard Nacamuli Newsgroups: bionet.biophysics Subject: Speaking the Unspoken Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:18:37 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA Lines: 56 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: headwave@access5.digex.net Please pardon me if I, in the interest of world peace, trouble you one more time. I am writing in the hope, however small, that I might open a dialogue. It is abundantly clear to me that we are telepathic. It is equally clear that we are going to fight another world war. If we do, it will not be because nobody said what needed to be said. Being telepathic, there must obviously be electromagnetic emissions of some sort from our brains. In an advanced a society as ours it would be a simple matter to detect them, be they radio frequency, microwave, millimeter, submillimeter, or whatever. Simple to detect, and impossible to avoid for, unless it is our intent to destroy half of our world in a nuclear war, it is impossible for us to progress very much beyond this point without doing so. In fact, we are likely to see continued regression as long as we continue to avoid doing so. For stubborn people; some of the highlights of World War III: Mother Russia will elect herself a communist government with influence well into Europe. China will become quite the industrialized nation and will also become quite agressive. A sharp rise in fuel prices will cause a major economic collapse as we will not have developed a substitute for petroleum. The world will suddenly have 2 billion too-many people in it (including the billion too-many it already has). Russia will ally with China. Russia will invade Europe. China will invade Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan, and will either invade or attack Malaysia. Moslem Pakistan, with China's help, will be engaged in a nuclear conflict with Hindu India and will find both of their populations considerably reduced. It also appears that the Hebrew race could quite possibly be annihilated. After being murdered in Europe, the Jews have concentrated in Israel. One thing that can be said for having a people in one place is that it makes it easy to kill them all. It is similar in the United States where Jews, blacks, hispanics, and gays are concentrated in cities eagerly awaiting Russian and Chinese warheads. It is unlikely that the United States could do much to help the Israelis as the entire Arab world falls upon her. The U.S. will be fending off Russian submarine- launched missiles in the east and Chinese ICBM's in the west. It is not likely that she'll stop them all. In what I feel is, frankly, quite likely an excersise in futility, I am attempting through some rather open talk to open a dialogue, a window if you will, and let some fresh air into an otherwise stagnant atmosphere. At the same time, I want to put a few things on the level on which they belong. The Russians used to be into telepathy. What happened? Give up? I suggest that we turn our antennas from the