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Subject: Re: Secret Life Of Hemp Experiment???!!!
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In a message dated 00-05-31 14:17:14 EDT, you write:

<< 
  Just think of all the young science fair contestants who write into this
 newsgroup every year asking about the effect of music on plants. I'd say
 about half the bandwidth goes towards convincing them to do some *real*
 science.
 
 Oh well, back to the lab....
  >>


If you wish to have students see how a related issue was first proposed and 
then tested in a rigorous fashion you might have them read the following two 
articles:

Backster C- 1968-Evidence of a primary perception in plant life- Int. J. 
Parapsychol. 10:  329-348

Horowitz K.A., D.C. Lewis, E.L. Gasteiger- 1975-Plant "Primary Perception": 
Electrophysiological unresponsiveness to brine shrimp killing- Science 189:  
478-480

The first article is, of course, one of the early ones claiming to show "ESP" 
in plants.  It is mentioned extensively in "The Secret Life of Plants".  It 
is one that proposed that plants had senses and perceptions not commonly 
attributed to plants.  

The second article is a test of the proposal given in the first.  The work 
was done by some undergraduates at Cornell University in the laboratory of an 
animal physiologist.  I have it from Dr. Gasteiger that these students first 
went to a plant physiologist on campus who did electrophysiology.  But that 
person did not have tenure yet, and so was not interested in getting into... 
shall I call it "fringe" issues?  A fear of giving the impression of being a 
"pseudoscientist" inhibited an honest search for truth about this matter, 
perhaps?  Anyway, this second paper is an excellant test of the alleged 
phenomenon, and they found no evidence for it.  

I suggest these two papers because this is an issue that keeps on coming up 
over and over, and why not use it to get students to read articles in which a 
hypothesis is put forward by one group and tested by another?  Issues of this 
sort relating to thoughts, touch, music keep on coming up.  Why not use this 
to get students to read some of the literature?

them's my 2 cents

(And remember to think good thoughts everyone!)     ;-)

Scott T. Meissner

Aure Entuluva!


---




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 02:05:12 2000
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From: "Alan Middlemiss" <cannabis@escape.ca>
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Subject: Re: Secret Life Of Hemp Experiment???!!!
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Sorry to assume we were on friendly terms.


"James Campanell" wrote in message
<3.0.6.32.20000531124612.0079ba80@mail.montclair.edu>...
>Dear, ahem, friend,
>
>Yes, actually, I have read that crotty piece of pseudo-science which
>even a 5th grader realizes has a thousand flaws in protocol as
>well as good sense. I will not argue with the some of observations
>made in that book-- most of the silliness comes in the form of
>the interpretation not observation. The difference between a
>good scientist and bad is that when a good scientist makes an
>observation, he makes a *reasonable* and *testable* hypothesis
>as to the cause of that phenomenon-- he does not suddenly decide
>that plants are telepathic and live "secret lives" which no human
>may ken. One of the most important principles that we live by is
>Occam's Razor-- you explain a phenomenon by the *simplest*
>explanation not by invoking something as complicated and hard to
>imagine as plant telepathy.
>
>Let me give you an example of one of the silly interpretations made
>by Tompkins and Bird and an alternative explanation based on serious
>scientific work done in the last few years. Tompkins and Bird noted
>that when one plant was damaged or physically hurt in some way, a
>nearby undamaged plant hooked to a lie detector suddenly showed all
>sorts of "distress" at its "friend's" damage. Tomkins and Bird
>interpreted this as an emotional reaction of the undamaged plant
>for the one that was damaged-- they called this fear of being damaged
>itself or sorrow for the damage of the other plant. Here is a different
>interpretation. It has been discovered in the last few years that
>plants produce a gas called jasmonic acid upon being injured. This
>gas has the remarkable ability of inducing nearby plants to synthesize
>protective proteins as well as causing changes in membrane permeability.
>These changes in membrane permeability may be interpreted as "jumps" on
>a lie detector. Does this sound like telepathic plants? I think not.
>
>Oh, and a mind like actually like a parachute in that it only
>functions right if the appropriate thought went into folding
>it correctly...
>
>Dr. James Campanella,
>Professor,
>Biology Dept.
>Montclair State University
>
>
>At 01:39 AM 5/31/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>Dear Friend:  Ever read the book secret life of plants...apparently not.
Its
>>by Peter Tompkins and Chis Bird. Came out in 1973 and details hundreds of
>>experiments into PLANT communication. Hemp is a plant, and by that I mean
>>non-drug fibre & oilseed Hemp. The experiment I am outlining is into human
/
>>plant relations. It may be beyond your grasp...but at least you could give
>>me the decency of admitting its about plants. Whether you believe plants
are
>>sentient beings or slaves to humanity, doesnt really concern me. My point
>>was that I am conducting a scientific online experiment which I believe is
>>unique. If you feel strongly that plant experiments have no place here,
>>demand that the moderator delete this or any forthcoming messages from me.
>>
>>If you have a chance , read the book secret life of plants. It may change
>>your mind about the world...maybe not
>>
>>  the mind is like a parachute...it only works when its open
>>
>>yours in respect
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Roger Whitehead wrote in message ...
>>>In article <3.0.6.32.20000529143554.007ff690@mail.montclair.edu>, James
>>>Campanell wrote:
>>>> Somebody want to remind me why we allow demented
>>>> stuff like this on our serious plant biology
>>>> newsgroup?
>>>
>>>Because it's an open forum, Jim. One takes the rough with the smooth.
>>>Or kill-lists the rough.  8-)
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Roger
>>>
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>Roger Whitehead,
>>>Oxted, Surrey, England
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>---





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 02:11:08 2000
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Subject: Re: Secret Life Of Hemp Experiment???!!!
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I apologize for ever posting to this newsgroup. Had I known it was filled
with such negative contemptment for anything out of the ordinary I wouldnt
have. I'll now run away with my tail firmly between my legs. Out of the
hundreds of experiments in the book you people are able to condemn each and
EVERY one of them as garbage science. Thats quite a feat! I must admit this
newsgroup left a very sour taste in my mouth...no "friends" here obviously.
So much for "friendly" debate....

yours in disbelief

Alan




taguebwREMOVE@wfu.edu wrote in message ...
>In article <3.0.6.32.20000531124612.0079ba80@mail.montclair.edu>,
>campanellj@mail.montclair.edu ("James Campanell") wrote:
>
>> Dear, ahem, friend,
>>
>> Yes, actually, I have read that crotty piece of pseudo-science which
>> even a 5th grader realizes has a thousand flaws in protocol as
>> well as good sense.
>[big snip]
>
>
>Thanks, I was hoping I didn't have to write a long post describing the
>pseudoscience of this book. It is a shame that one book can have such a
>deleterious effect on the public's understanding of science...
>
>Just think of all the young science fair contestants who write into this
>newsgroup every year asking about the effect of music on plants. I'd say
>about half the bandwidth goes towards convincing them to do some *real*
>science.
>
>Oh well, back to the lab....
>
>--
>My 2 electrons,
>
>Brian
>
>Remove "REMOVE" to reply





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 02:34:42 2000
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From: Orio <blackgull@mailcity.com>
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Subject: HELP: NEED INFO (please see inside)
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Hello,

I am writing a novel about trees and I need to know how many leaves
(average calculation of course) can be found on an adult, normal sized
broadleaf tree such as a maple tree, plane tree, or lime tree.

Thank you very much !

Orio


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From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 16:33:51 2000
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Subject: Re: Secret Life Of Hemp Experiment???!!!
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Alan,

Sorry you find so many heretic non-believers here.  You apparently are
interested in running a scientific experiment, yet you have not supplied
what seems to be a scientifically valid protocol.  Of course people here are
sceptical; human-plant communication has not been scientifically
established.  You could help by letting us in on a few more details.

Have you given any thought to what it would take to publish your results in
a scientific journal?  Yesterday I asked about the controls you would run
and how you would interpret your data.  If you are really serious about
establishing a scientific basis for your "hypothesis", you must be prepared
to counter a lot of scepticism with solid scientific data.

Dave






From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 21:13:24 2000
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depends on the age of the tree
I think the Fibonnacci sequence is used to calculate this?




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 23:44:46 2000
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From: Orio <blackgull@mailcity.com>
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On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:15:22 +1200, betula <onth@beech.es> wrote:

>depends on the age of the tree
>I think the Fibonnacci sequence is used to calculate this?


Thank you for the reply.  :-)
Let's say that it could be an average 50 years old lime tree.
See, I'm no scientist, I'm only an artist/novelist, and I am writing a
childrens tale. What I need is not a scientifically precise number, a
simple plausible estimate can be surely enough for my needs.

I hope that someone can give me this info.
Alternately, can you suggest where to learn about Fibonacci sequence?

Thanks,
Orio


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From: "Alan Middlemiss" <cannabis@escape.ca>
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Subject: Anthropocentrism vs. Biocentism
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Dear People:

   I must say that posting to this newsgroup has caused me to think hard
about issues. I will still continue with the experiment and work with the
local university to help keep it based in science. I dont really have the
energy after working 12 hours days (oh poor me eh!) digging water wells to
come home and make lengthy explanations and outline procedures for the
experiment. I realize now that I was taken in by the "bionet" part of the
name of this newsgroup. I had not realized that it was wrought with
anthropocentrism, or the belief that humans are on top of the
pyramid...otherwise stated that all other species are below human beings. I
firmly (all my life) have believed in biocentrism which is that humans are
on an even playing field with the rest of life on earth.. that we are part
of a lateral web of life , of course holding down a special (but often
misused) place. Do I believe that plants can communicate , you bet! Do I
believe that colonies of bees can communicate amongst themselves ,yes I do.
Can we scientifically using our left brain prove this ... i'm not so sure.
Its that other 50% of grey matter in our heads that i'm trying to tap into..
the right side. This will most definatley be my last posting here (ever),
but before I go I wanted to say that there are over 100 people from 14
different countries participating in the project. If nothing else these
people will watch plants grow for a season which is relaxing (potentially
healing -- another unproven can of worms I know). So is it really all that
bad? I am working with the local botany department of the university to
cretae controls and tests to "potentially" access differences in the plots.
I feel so jaded by this newsgroup that it's hard to lift a finger to type
another word... it seems all in vain. I hope the world really is not as
mundane and human-centred as you all seem to believe it is. I certainly wont
be changing anbodys mind in here (not that I intended to). We are all set in
our ways are we not? You shouldnt feel bad at all though , fore
anthropocentrism is the basis of society today, it is commonly accepted. I
only wish that there was more room in peoples lives for the wonders of
nature.

  Good-bye, Good-luck and even Respect from " the Hemp jerk"

Alan Middlemiss






From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 04:37:35 2000
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This is a rather strange question, but I would greatly appreciate any
and all help.

While reading something the other day, I came across a reference to "the
flowers of the field", and knowing what this could be a reference to
would greatly help me out. Is there any species or group of flowers that
are referred to, or can be referred to, as "flowers of the field"? (My
first guess was wildflowers, but my guess is virtually baseless).

Also, if this phrase can be viewed as a reference to a certain flower or
classification of flowers, what unique characteristics would these
flowers have? In other words, what would set them apart from other
flowers (coloring, life-span, commonness/rareness).

Thank you.






From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 13:36:02 2000
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"Janssen" <p-janssen.@chello.nl> wrote in message news:...
> Hello Daniel,
> If you read this message please contact me.
> I lost your adress.
> My computer crashed and now I lost al the adresses, incluiding yours.
> Thanks already for your reaction.
>
> Peter. (Holland).
>
>





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 15:33:40 2000
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From: Monique Reed <monique@mail.bio.tamu.edu>
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I think the original reference may be from Christian scripture (see
Matthew 6:28-29): "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the
lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you
that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of
these." Whether linguistic scholars have been able to link any
particular species to the phrase is debatable, but one source
(Mabberley, The Plant Book, 1997) suggests Anemone coronaria or
Sternbergia lutea.

M. Reed

Aven wrote:
> 
> This is a rather strange question, but I would greatly appreciate any
> and all help.
> 
> While reading something the other day, I came across a reference to "the
> flowers of the field", and knowing what this could be a reference to
> would greatly help me out. Is there any species or group of flowers that
> are referred to, or can be referred to, as "flowers of the field"? (My
> first guess was wildflowers, but my guess is virtually baseless).
> 
> Also, if this phrase can be viewed as a reference to a certain flower or
> classification of flowers, what unique characteristics would these
> flowers have? In other words, what would set them apart from other
> flowers (coloring, life-span, commonness/rareness).
> 
> Thank you.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 16:17:20 2000
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In article <3937C0FA.7788EE7C@mail.bio.tamu.edu>, Monique Reed wrote:
> "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the
> lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you
> that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of
> these."

Or, as the Authorised Version (aka the King James Bible) has it:

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, 
how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not 
arrayed like one of these.

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 16:17:24 2000
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In article <39372E89.D6228E6@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> Is there any species or group of flowers that
> are referred to, or can be referred to, as "flowers of the field"?

A more modern, but less mellifluous, term is "forb". This is any 
broad-leaved herb (in the botanical, not the culinary sense) growing in 
grassland.

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 17:48:56 2000
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Thank you, you've all been very helpful...






From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 19:36:41 2000
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Is it possible that the "lilies of the field" could be a reference to Lilium
candidum?  I know they are native to the Israel area, I just do not know if
they grow on "fields"...or are common in the first place.



Monique Reed wrote:

> I think the original reference may be from Christian scripture (see
> Matthew 6:28-29): "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the
> lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you
> that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of
> these." Whether linguistic scholars have been able to link any
> particular species to the phrase is debatable, but one source
> (Mabberley, The Plant Book, 1997) suggests Anemone coronaria or
> Sternbergia lutea.
>
> M. Reed
>
> Aven wrote:
> >
> > This is a rather strange question, but I would greatly appreciate any
> > and all help.
> >
> > While reading something the other day, I came across a reference to "the
> > flowers of the field", and knowing what this could be a reference to
> > would greatly help me out. Is there any species or group of flowers that
> > are referred to, or can be referred to, as "flowers of the field"? (My
> > first guess was wildflowers, but my guess is virtually baseless).
> >
> > Also, if this phrase can be viewed as a reference to a certain flower or
> > classification of flowers, what unique characteristics would these
> > flowers have? In other words, what would set them apart from other
> > flowers (coloring, life-span, commonness/rareness).
> >
> > Thank you.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Fri Jun  2 19:43:07 2000
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Lilium candidum is not native to Israel but Hyacinthus orientalis is!

But then again, what was referred to as "lilies" back then does not
necessarily mean Liliaceae or even monocots.

"Aven" <avengius@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:39380144.A095355F@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM...
>
> Is it possible that the "lilies of the field" could be a reference to
Lilium
> candidum?  I know they are native to the Israel area, I just do not know
if
> they grow on "fields"...or are common in the first place.
>
>
>
> Monique Reed wrote:
>
> > I think the original reference may be from Christian scripture (see
> > Matthew 6:28-29): "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the
> > lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you
> > that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of
> > these." Whether linguistic scholars have been able to link any
> > particular species to the phrase is debatable, but one source
> > (Mabberley, The Plant Book, 1997) suggests Anemone coronaria or
> > Sternbergia lutea.
> >
> > M. Reed
> >
> > Aven wrote:
> > >
> > > This is a rather strange question, but I would greatly appreciate any
> > > and all help.
> > >
> > > While reading something the other day, I came across a reference to
"the
> > > flowers of the field", and knowing what this could be a reference to
> > > would greatly help me out. Is there any species or group of flowers
that
> > > are referred to, or can be referred to, as "flowers of the field"? (My
> > > first guess was wildflowers, but my guess is virtually baseless).
> > >
> > > Also, if this phrase can be viewed as a reference to a certain flower
or
> > > classification of flowers, what unique characteristics would these
> > > flowers have? In other words, what would set them apart from other
> > > flowers (coloring, life-span, commonness/rareness).
> > >
> > > Thank you.
>





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Well, it is native to Syria and Asia Minor...Isn't Israel part of the Asia
Minor region?


Stephen Jankalski wrote:

> Lilium candidum is not native to Israel but Hyacinthus orientalis is!
>
> But then again, what was referred to as "lilies" back then does not
> necessarily mean Liliaceae or even monocots.
>
>




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In article <39380144.A095355F@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> Is it possible that the "lilies of the field" could be a reference to Lilium
> candidum?

That is certainly one candidate, others including the two species Monique 
mentioned: Anemone coronaria and Sternbergia lutea. Another is Sternbergia 
clusiana.

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




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In article <8h8v5q$ero$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, Stephen 
Jankalski wrote:
> Lilium candidum is not native to Israel

What's your source for this, Stephen? It's found in remote places on 
cliffs in the Galil and Mount Carmel, unlikely sites for introductions 
or escapes.

> But then again, what was referred to as "lilies" back then does not
> necessarily mean Liliaceae or even monocots.

Yep.

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




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In article <39380429.1FA1B2E6@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> Isn't Israel part of the Asia Minor region?

'Fraid not. Asia Minor is the old name for Anatolia, the Asiatic part 
of Turkey, and is several hundreds miles away from Israel (just trace 
St Paul's journeys on a map).

On the other hand, Anatolia borders Syria, which in turn borders Israel 
to the north-east and, as you'll see from my note to Stephen, Lilium 
candidum occurs in the north of Israel. Looks as though it's spread.

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




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I found this Israeli botanical website, and one of the pages on it has a list of
"Plants of Israel". While Sternbergia clausiana is mentioned, Sternbergia lutea
is not. Is the former simply more common, or is it just an omission?

Also, interestingly enough, Lilium candidum is listed...



Roger Whitehead wrote:

> That is certainly one candidate, others including the two species Monique
> mentioned: Anemone coronaria and Sternbergia lutea. Another is Sternbergia
> clusiana.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Roger Whitehead,
> Oxted, Surrey, England




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From: ddownes@webtv.net (David Downes)
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recently I have collected seeds from a japanese red maple tree, and I am
curious as to how I may start my own plant from these seeds. any help
would be appreciated
                                      thank-you
                                            dd




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In article <39382214.BB3DA1D0@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> I found this Israeli botanical website

Which Web site is that, Aven?

> While Sternbergia clausiana is mentioned, Sternbergia lutea
> is not. Is the former simply more common, or is it just an omission?

An omission from what?

(It's Sternbergia *clusiana*, by the way, after the French gardener, Clusius.)

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




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Roger Whitehead wrote:

> In article <39382214.BB3DA1D0@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> > I found this Israeli botanical website
>
> Which Web site is that, Aven?
>

http://www.tau.ac.il/~ibs/album/index3.htm


> > While Sternbergia clausiana is mentioned, Sternbergia lutea
> > is not. Is the former simply more common, or is it just an omission?
>
> An omission from what?
>

An omission from the website's list of Israeli plants... Why did my question get
you confused? <G>

I figured that if Sternbergia lutea is a possible candidate for Israel's "lilies
of the field" it would have been mentioned on the website. I thought that if it
wasn't, it was simply an omission on the part of the guys who made the website.


> (It's Sternbergia *clusiana*, by the way, after the French gardener, Clusius.)
>

Yeah, sorry...I just "copied and pasted" from the Israeli website, which has it
listed as Sternbergia clausiana.








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Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 10:11:03 +0100
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In article <3938858A.1A1D415D@worldnet.att.netNOSPAM>, Aven wrote:
> > Which Web site is that, Aven?
>
> http://www.tau.ac.il/~ibs/album/index3.htm

Thanks for that.

> An omission from the website's list of Israeli plants.

It's a selective list, so the absence of S. lutea from it is inconclusive.

> Yeah, sorry...I just "copied and pasted" from the Israeli website, which has it
> listed as Sternbergia clausiana.

That your get-out cluse, is it?  8-)

Regards,
 
Roger
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sat Jun  3 14:40:51 2000
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From: "Steve, Tammy, Chloe and Ellysha Hale" <shale@NOSPAMwantree.com.au>
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Subject: Re: Toxic Ficus (was Oleander danger)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:28:05 +0800
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try geting some in your eye. Causes blindness and reasonable amounts of the
sap can cause vomiting and even death.
"Garrapata" <garrapat@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8gsd9i$pdm$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> On Sun, 28 May 2000 00:36:36 +0800, "Steve, Tammy, Chloe and Ellysha
> Hale" <shale@NOSPAMwantree.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Incedentally, the common indoor Ficus (F. benjamina) is almost
> >as dangerous but no one worries about that do they?
>
> This is not true. When I worked as a gardener for a hospital someone
> questioned the safety of Ficus benjamina.  A search of  the medical
> literature found no references to any species of  Ficus - except
> for Ficus carica causing a skin rash in some individuals





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sat Jun  3 14:50:50 2000
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Subject: Re: HELP: NEED INFO (please see inside)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:36:58 +0800
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How does 2500 leaves sound? Not a real number just plucked it from the air.
:))
Hapyy Gardening Shale
"Orio" <blackgull@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdjs4m8r98alp6kt92d35bkcqghmi3e6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:15:22 +1200, betula <onth@beech.es> wrote:
>
> >depends on the age of the tree
> >I think the Fibonnacci sequence is used to calculate this?
>
>
> Thank you for the reply.  :-)
> Let's say that it could be an average 50 years old lime tree.
> See, I'm no scientist, I'm only an artist/novelist, and I am writing a
> childrens tale. What I need is not a scientifically precise number, a
> simple plausible estimate can be surely enough for my needs.
>
> I hope that someone can give me this info.
> Alternately, can you suggest where to learn about Fibonacci sequence?
>
> Thanks,
> Orio
>
>
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From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sat Jun  3 14:55:33 2000
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Subject: Re: Anthropocentrism vs. Biocentism
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:40:33 +0800
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1. Youir attitude to critisism was unjustified.
2. As long as you use accepted scientific methods and controls most people
don't care if you try to prove that the Popes a muslim
3. I and I think a number of people reading this hope you have success with
your experiment
4. And most importantly. Get a sense of humour guy. Just cause not every one
agrees with you does not make them right or you wrong
Good luck and happy Gardening, Shale
"Alan Middlemiss" <cannabis@escape.ca> wrote in message
news:%3EZ4.3034$Pz6.24125@news1.mts.net...
> Dear People:
>
>    I must say that posting to this newsgroup has caused me to think hard
> about issues. I will still continue with the experiment and work with the
> local university to help keep it based in science. I dont really have the
> energy after working 12 hours days (oh poor me eh!) digging water wells to
> come home and make lengthy explanations and outline procedures for the
> experiment. I realize now that I was taken in by the "bionet" part of the
> name of this newsgroup. I had not realized that it was wrought with
> anthropocentrism, or the belief that humans are on top of the
> pyramid...otherwise stated that all other species are below human beings.
I
> firmly (all my life) have believed in biocentrism which is that humans are
> on an even playing field with the rest of life on earth.. that we are part
> of a lateral web of life , of course holding down a special (but often
> misused) place. Do I believe that plants can communicate , you bet! Do I
> believe that colonies of bees can communicate amongst themselves ,yes I
do.
> Can we scientifically using our left brain prove this ... i'm not so sure.
> Its that other 50% of grey matter in our heads that i'm trying to tap
into..
> the right side. This will most definatley be my last posting here (ever),
> but before I go I wanted to say that there are over 100 people from 14
> different countries participating in the project. If nothing else these
> people will watch plants grow for a season which is relaxing (potentially
> healing -- another unproven can of worms I know). So is it really all that
> bad? I am working with the local botany department of the university to
> cretae controls and tests to "potentially" access differences in the
plots.
> I feel so jaded by this newsgroup that it's hard to lift a finger to type
> another word... it seems all in vain. I hope the world really is not as
> mundane and human-centred as you all seem to believe it is. I certainly
wont
> be changing anbodys mind in here (not that I intended to). We are all set
in
> our ways are we not? You shouldnt feel bad at all though , fore
> anthropocentrism is the basis of society today, it is commonly accepted. I
> only wish that there was more room in peoples lives for the wonders of
> nature.
>
>   Good-bye, Good-luck and even Respect from " the Hemp jerk"
>
> Alan Middlemiss
>
>
>





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sat Jun  3 22:35:20 2000
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From: kdbanglia@aol.com (KDBANGLIA)
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Subject: Fungi growing on soil.  Southern England.
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Can anyone give a rough idea of what the outcome of outcrops of fungi on soil
is ?

The fungi grows in a cupped shape, upto about an inch and a half across, has a
white testured outer bloom and a smooth khaki coloured inner.

I'd guess at poor drainage !

Richard Brooks.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 00:50:42 2000
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Roger Whitehead wrote:

> > Yeah, sorry...I just "copied and pasted" from the Israeli website, which has it
> > listed as Sternbergia clausiana.
>
> That your get-out cluse, is it?  8-)
>

LOL...Yeah, I "copied and pasted" on sci.bio.botany also...yeah, that's it...




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 13:57:12 2000
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From: "John Lance" <jlance@swva.net>
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Subject: Paulownia tree
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Would like to start a thread on this unique fast growing tree.





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 19:17:24 2000
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From: "e.t. and dct" <emt1@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Need advice re: Guzmania and Vriesea
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I have a Guzmania "Vella" and a Vriesea "Isabel".  Both plants appear to be
growing well; the leaves are in great condition, and are a beautiful green.
But...the flowers seem to have lost their color.  The Guzmania has turned a
yellowish green in color instead of the bright red it is supposed to be.
The Vriesea flower is not bright yellow and red now; it's also a yellowish
green.

They are both indoors, but they are under a plant light.  Can anyone tell me
what has happened and how to resolve this situation?  Thank you!  e.t.





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 21:00:32 2000
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From: betula <onth@beech.es>
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doesnt like frost or wind




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 21:27:07 2000
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Anyone got pictures?





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 23:09:08 2000
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From: "Stephen Jankalski" <CEREOID@prodigy.net>
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So it is true that chronic marijuana smoking causes permanent brain damage.
Your rambling posting provides further proof. You managed to graduate from
college and now you are digging wells for a living.

Don't think so hard or you might burn out your last few remaining synapses
and you will finally be one with the plants. Its amazing that you are still
able to type at all!!

"Alan Middlemiss" <cannabis@escape.ca> wrote in message
news:%3EZ4.3034$Pz6.24125@news1.mts.net...
> Dear People:
>
>    I must say that posting to this newsgroup has caused me to think hard
> about issues. I will still continue with the experiment and work with the
> local university to help keep it based in science. I dont really have the
> energy after working 12 hours days (oh poor me eh!) digging water wells to
> come home and make lengthy explanations and outline procedures for the
> experiment. I realize now that I was taken in by the "bionet" part of the
> name of this newsgroup. I had not realized that it was wrought with
> anthropocentrism, or the belief that humans are on top of the
> pyramid...otherwise stated that all other species are below human beings.
I
> firmly (all my life) have believed in biocentrism which is that humans are
> on an even playing field with the rest of life on earth.. that we are part
> of a lateral web of life , of course holding down a special (but often
> misused) place. Do I believe that plants can communicate , you bet! Do I
> believe that colonies of bees can communicate amongst themselves ,yes I
do.
> Can we scientifically using our left brain prove this ... i'm not so sure.
> Its that other 50% of grey matter in our heads that i'm trying to tap
into..
> the right side. This will most definatley be my last posting here (ever),
> but before I go I wanted to say that there are over 100 people from 14
> different countries participating in the project. If nothing else these
> people will watch plants grow for a season which is relaxing (potentially
> healing -- another unproven can of worms I know). So is it really all that
> bad? I am working with the local botany department of the university to
> cretae controls and tests to "potentially" access differences in the
plots.
> I feel so jaded by this newsgroup that it's hard to lift a finger to type
> another word... it seems all in vain. I hope the world really is not as
> mundane and human-centred as you all seem to believe it is. I certainly
wont
> be changing anbodys mind in here (not that I intended to). We are all set
in
> our ways are we not? You shouldnt feel bad at all though , fore
> anthropocentrism is the basis of society today, it is commonly accepted. I
> only wish that there was more room in peoples lives for the wonders of
> nature.
>
>   Good-bye, Good-luck and even Respect from " the Hemp jerk"
>
> Alan Middlemiss
>
>
>





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Sun Jun  4 23:35:09 2000
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From: "Stephen Jankalski" <CEREOID@prodigy.net>
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Subject: Re: Paulownia tree
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:37:31 -0400
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Paulownia tomentosa, the "Princess Tree", is a spectacular sight in late
spring with its large fragrant purple snapdragon flowers, but the rest of
the year, it is an aggressive weed. The outrageously large leaves do not
have a pleasant smell at all.

"John Lance" <jlance@swva.net> wrote in message
news:8hdjn2$8a0$1@news3.infoave.net...
> Would like to start a thread on this unique fast growing tree.
>
>





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 04:22:38 2000
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From: zingdot@aol.com (Zingdot)
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Subject: wild plant identification
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Hi, I am looking for a website or a discussion group where amateurs like myself
can find information on identifying and discussing wild plants.  I have several
field guides, but there not always the easiest way.  Does anyone know of a
site??




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 04:33:40 2000
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dd, I'm no expert on cultivation from seeds, but I collected small seedlings
from under a mature japanese red maple a few years ago- most of them produce
hundreds of seedlings. I just pulled the seedlings out- threw them in a bag and
translplanted them several hours later in a small  partially shaded plot.  I
don't remember how many I planted(5or 6?), but 4 of them took, and three are
alive and well today.  so, it seems that transplanting the seedlings is very
easy.  Probably cultivation from seeds would not be too difficult either.  good
luck, Kevin




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 04:34:50 2000
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From: bae@cs.toronto.edu (Beverly Erlebacher)
Subject: Re: Fungi growing on soil.  Southern England.
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In article <20000603173514.02791.00001038@nso-da.aol.com>,
KDBANGLIA <kdbanglia@aol.com> wrote:
>Can anyone give a rough idea of what the outcome of outcrops of fungi on soil
>is ?
>
>The fungi grows in a cupped shape, upto about an inch and a half across, has a
>white testured outer bloom and a smooth khaki coloured inner.
>
>I'd guess at poor drainage !

Fungi have to live on something, and most live on dead material.  You probably
have some incompletely decomposed organic matter in there, like some old
tree roots or perhaps you've added some relatively fresh compost or manure.
The fungus is just continuing the decomposition process, recycling nutrients
that your plants will later be able to use, and adding stable organic matter
to the soil.

Aside from some fungi that rot trees, and 'fairy ring' mushrooms, pathogenic
fungi seldom produce large fruiting bodies.  Almost certainly, this fungus
is doing no harm, and is actually doing you some good.  So enjoy it while 
you have it - it sounds rather attractive.  It will go away when it runs out
of food.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 06:36:35 2000
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From: grape <vine@the.vineyard>
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Subject: Re: Paulownia tree
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Paulownia elongata is a balsa like timber grown in China, much touted as
the super tree of the future, not much came of it.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 13:21:09 2000
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From: "Stephen Jankalski" <CEREOID@prodigy.net>
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Subject: Re: Need advice re: Guzmania and Vriesea
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Those are not flowers but are actually brightly colored leaves.

Your plants are obviously not getting enough light. The light intensity and
quality is not enough for them to color up properly.

"e.t. and dct" <emt1@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:E2x_4.755$kj3.4042@news4.atl...
> I have a Guzmania "Vella" and a Vriesea "Isabel".  Both plants appear to
be
> growing well; the leaves are in great condition, and are a beautiful
green.
> But...the flowers seem to have lost their color.  The Guzmania has turned
a
> yellowish green in color instead of the bright red it is supposed to be.
> The Vriesea flower is not bright yellow and red now; it's also a yellowish
> green.
>
> They are both indoors, but they are under a plant light.  Can anyone tell
me
> what has happened and how to resolve this situation?  Thank you!  e.t.
>
>





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From: trjinc12@888.nu
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MAXLENGTH="100"></td>
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at Home<option VALUE="Morning at Work">Morning at Work<option 
VALUE="Afternoon at Home">Afternoon
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Home</select></td>
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MAXLENGTH="100">*</td>
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<td BGCOLOR="#CDCDCD"><select NAME="LoanInterested"><option 
VALUE="Second">Second
Mortgage (Home Equity)</option><option VALUE="Consolidation">Debt 
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From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 14:30:22 2000
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unsubscribe plantbio

 Pr. Emile Duhoux
> Institut de Recherche pour le Developpement
> (IRD ex ORSTOM)
> GeneTrop/PCMA
> 911 Ave Agropolis
> 34032 Montpellier Cedex
> tel  :33 4 67 41 62 02
> Fax: 33 4  67 63 82 65
> http://www.mpl.ird.fr/genetrop/
> 



---




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 15:33:36 2000
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From: Monique Reed <monique@mail.bio.tamu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Paulownia tree
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:14:23 -0500
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References: <8hdjn2$8a0$1@news3.infoave.net> <8helgt$2bto$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> <393B3CDE.3DAF@the.vineyard>
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There is a gorgeous double row of mature Paulownia at Longwood Gardens
in Kennett Square, Pennsylvania.  They are stunning in flower, but
each year the dead or weak limbs must be carefully pruned away.  The
wood is so soft and brittle that the staff live in fear that a good
wind will bring a big limb down on some poor, unsuspecting guest.

Monique Reed




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 17:15:58 2000
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From: ecoli@cix.compulink.co.uk
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Subject: Re: Fungi growing on soil.  Southern England.
Date: 5 Jun 2000 16:15:35 GMT
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> ==========
> bionet/plants #11570, from kdbanglia@aol.com, 902 chars, 03 Jun 2000 
21:35:14 
> ----------
> Article: 22872 of bionet.plants
> Path: 
news.cix.co.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!bignews
.mediaways.net!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.1
29!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-f
> or-mail
> From: kdbanglia@aol.com (KDBANGLIA)
> Newsgroups: bionet.plants
> Subject: Fungi growing on soil.  Southern England.
> Lines: 9
> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
> X-Admin: news@aol.com
> Date: 03 Jun 2000 21:35:14 GMT
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> Xref: news.cix.co.uk bionet.plants:22872
> 
> Can anyone give a rough idea of what the outcome of outcrops of fungi 
on soil
> is ?
> 
> The fungi grows in a cupped shape, upto about an inch and a half 
across, has a
> white testured outer bloom and a smooth khaki coloured inner.
> 
> I'd guess at poor drainage !
> 
> Richard Brooks.
Hello Richard,
What do you know about the soil ? If farmyard manure (FYM) or other 
bulky organic waste has been recently (last six months) incorporated it 
is quite common for fruit bodies to emerge from bare soil.(I have a load 
coming up in my vegetable patch at the moment after a heavy FYM 
dressing.They are essentially based in lumps of manure that have not yet 
been completely incorporated.
Try looking up the genera Otidea and Peziza for pictures that might 
match.
As to the "outcome" it is hard to say that there is one apart from the 
fact that that particular fungus is present and found the soil and the 
season just right. It will be decomposing organic matter  just like 
nearly all the other bacteria and fungi that exist in millions in every 
handful of soil.

 Peter Harris
 Reading, UK. 




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 23:57:02 2000
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In article <8hgjn7$1av$1@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>, ecoli@cix.compulink.co.uk
writes:

>Hello Richard,
>What do you know about the soil ? If farmyard manure (FYM) or other 
>bulky organic waste has been recently (last six months) incorporated it 
>is quite common for fruit bodies to emerge from bare soil.(I have a load 
>coming up in my vegetable patch at the moment after a heavy FYM 
>dressing.They are essentially based in lumps of manure that have not yet 
>been completely incorporated.
>Try looking up the genera Otidea and Peziza for pictures that might 
>match.
>As to the "outcome" it is hard to say that there is one apart from the 
>fact that that particular fungus is present and found the soil and the 
>season just right. It will be decomposing organic matter  just like 
>nearly all the other bacteria and fungi that exist in millions in every 
>handful of soil.
>
> Peter Harris
> Reading, UK. 

Thanks Peter,

It's good old (or not so old) Croydon Council recycled compost that's doing it.


Richard.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 23:57:02 2000
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From: kdbanglia@aol.com (KDBANGLIA)
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In article <2000Jun4.222433.19549@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, bae@cs.toronto.edu
(Beverly Erlebacher) writes:

>>The fungi grows in a cupped shape, upto about an inch and a half across, has
>a
>>white testured outer bloom and a smooth khaki coloured inner.
>>
>>I'd guess at poor drainage !
>
>
>  Almost certainly, this fungus
>is doing no harm, and is actually doing you some good.  So enjoy it while 
>you have it - it sounds rather attractive.  It will go away when it runs out
>of food.
>

Thanks for that, Sadly your last part doesn't sound as though it will work the
same as some foxes we have scrubbing around at night, amongst the rows of peas.

Richard.




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 12:09:12 2000
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From: "Carsten Richter" <carsten.richter@rz.hu-berlin.de>
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Subject: Radish in hydroponic culture system
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:02:59 +0200
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Has anyone experience with the growth of radish in a hydroponic system?
We at the Humboldt-University Berlin would like to grow radish in a gastight
plant growth chamber, which is able to keep all parameters for plant growth
very constant. It also allows measurement of photosynthesis and respiration.
First trials with clay pellets and Lewatit HD5 as fertilizer have not been
satisfying.You can find live pictures of the growing radish under:

www.gms-biobox.de

Who has done something like that before or has any ideas or hints?

Carsten Richter





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 15:43:15 2000
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From: "Renee Brussaard" <Renee.Brussaard@dragonwerks.huronia.com.no_SPAM>
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Subject: Irises need dividing
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Can someone tell me when it is best to divide irises? I have some in my
garden which aren't blooming. It looks as though they have been in the same
spot since they were planted.  I've heard that they should be moved every
few years.  Is it okay to divide and move them now?





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 16:35:17 2000
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From: Monique Reed <monique@mail.bio.tamu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Irises need dividing
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:21:44 -0500
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I think you are supposed to do it around July, after they flower.  If
they haven't flowered in years, I'm not sure when is best.  It's not a
bad idea to dust cut surfaces with a little fungicide powder.

M. Reed

Renee Brussaard wrote:
> 
> Can someone tell me when it is best to divide irises? I have some in my
> garden which aren't blooming. It looks as though they have been in the same
> spot since they were planted.  I've heard that they should be moved every
> few years.  Is it okay to divide and move them now?




From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 17:28:22 2000
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Thanks Monique, but I don't think they are ill.   They look green and lush,
just no blooms.

~Renee

"Monique Reed" <monique@mail.bio.tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:393D1708.E61F2B7F@mail.bio.tamu.edu...
> I think you are supposed to do it around July, after they flower.  If
> they haven't flowered in years, I'm not sure when is best.  It's not a
> bad idea to dust cut surfaces with a little fungicide powder.
>
> M. Reed
>
> Renee Brussaard wrote:
> >
> > Can someone tell me when it is best to divide irises? I have some in my
> > garden which aren't blooming. It looks as though they have been in the
same
> > spot since they were planted.  I've heard that they should be moved
every
> > few years.  Is it okay to divide and move them now?





From owner-plantbio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 18:34:06 2000
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From: Monique Reed <monique@mail.bio.tamu.edu>
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The fungicide is just to prevent fungus infection on the rhizomes if
you cut them into pieces when you divide them (as is usual).  The cut
surfaces are very prone to rot.  If your foliage is lush, are your
plants perhaps wanting more phosphorus and potassium and less
nitrogen?

Monique


Renee Brussaard wrote:
> 
> Can someone tell me when it is best to divide irises? I have some in my
> garden which aren't blooming. It looks as though they have been in the same
> spot since they were planted.  I've heard that they should be moved every
> few years.  Is it okay to divide and move them now?




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