From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Dec 02 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!daresbury!news From: Draye@gena.ucl.ac.be Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: genetic correlations: summary Message-ID: <1992Dec3.170654.26366@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Date: 3 Dec 92 17:03:38 GMT Sender: GENA2@be.ac.ucl.rice.Vm1 Distribution: bionet Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain Lines: 155 Original-To: pop-bio@uk.ac.daresbury Dear Networkers, Two weeks ago, I sent the following message on the list. >Some stuff for your reflexion this night... > >Consider genetic correlations between components of early fitness and late >fitness. The strengh of natural selection on the second should be low >(compared to the other). >Now, suppose that you derive your genetic correlations from mean genotypic >values of strains of Drosophila melanogaster from different geographic origins. >If you find a significative correlation by this way, does it implie thatthe >same correlation should appear inside each of the populations? I send you now the answers I got. Many thanks to people who did 'stuff'. Xavier DRAYE Unite de Genetique LOUVAIN LA NEUVE BELGIUM E-Mail: gena2@buclln11 ====================================================================== From: "Bruce C. Dudek" One part of the answer to your question relates to allele frequencies. Since genetic correlations are dependent on relative allele frequencies, it is plausible that between- population genetic correlations could be rather different than within population correlations. In addition, the genetic correlations within different populations could vary widely simply because of differing frequencies. I don't know if this addresses the whole of your question. I'll be interested in other posted answers. ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ** Bruce C. Dudek * ** ** Dept. Psychology * BCD80@ALBNYVM1.BITNET ** ** SUNY-Albany * BCD80@BALDER.ALBANY.EDU ** ** 1400 Washington Ave * Fax: 518-442-4867 ** ** Albany, NY 12222 USA * Voice: 518-442-4824 ** ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ====================================================================== From: T80SMS1@NIU Of course not. The correlation across populations can easily be of opposite sign to the correlation within population. Actually the original message is ambiguous. If several lines per population were measured, then the resulting genetic correlation contains both among- and within-population elements. A simple nested analysis of covariance can be used to tease appart the two factors. *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* * Samuel M. Scheiner + * * Department of Biological Sciences + The purpose of an * * Northern Illinois University + education is to turn * * DeKalb, Illinois 60115 + an empty mind into * * Phone: (815) 753-7847 + an open one. * * Fax: (815) 753-0461 + Malcolm Forbes * * Bitnet: t80sms1@niu + * *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ====================================================================== From: "Andy Peters" I would say that it depends on the mechanism of genetic correlation. There are two hypotheses that I can think of for the mechanism: the traits are linked due to selection, or they are controlled by the same developmental program. If the linkage is due to selection, there's likely to be more variation between and within populations for the correlation. Either way, it would be interesting to actually compare the genetic correlation between populations; I would probably feel more confident if the correlations were measured within one population. --Andy Peters Program in Evolution, Ecology, and Behavior Indiana University, Bloomington adpeters@bio.indiana.edu ====================================================================== From: PHILIPPI.ECOLOGY@mhs.unc.edu (PHILIPPI) Xavier- Sam's answer is correct, but not necessarily too helpful. Genetic correlations within species may be either of the same sign or of the opposite sign as those among species, depending on the basis for the genetic correlations. For the negative case, I would recommend papers by David Houle, who was at SUNY Stony Brook. He used wild Drosophila species (I believe affinis group species, but my memory isn't that good), and looked at tradeoffs, including between growth rate and longevity. What he found was only positive genetic correlations within species, but negative correlations among species. His explanation at the time was that (genetic) variation in resource acquisition swamped the genetic variation within species for allocation, so the genetic correlations between traits was positive within species. Among species, there was more variation in allocation, so the negative correlation was not swamped by the positive correlation due to acquisition variation. Anyway, I recall a paper (possible with Walt Eanes as second author) in Evolution, and there probably was a second paper in Genetics. For the positive case, there was a paper in the late 80s in Evolution comparing the genetic covariance of mouse skull measures among different inbred lineages (and perhaps species, I haven't thought about this stuff in a couple of years) that found that the covariance matrix was conserved. I'm sorry I don't remember the author. If I were still at Utah or UCSD I would dig up the references for you, but UNC-CH is backward and doesn't have any online literature searching facilities. If you can't find any Houle papers let me know and I'll try to dig something up. Good luck and I hope this helps. tom philippi philippi.ecology@mhs.unc.edu ====================================================================== From: Simon Blomberg Isn't your question a statistical one? It seems to me that just because you find a significant correlation in a variable between populations (assuming they _are_ separate populations), that is no guarantee that it will be significant _within_ a population. An example: Suppose mean prey size is correlated with mean predator size across several species of lizards. Large lizard species eat large beetles, and small lizard species eat small beetles. Now imagine what _may_ be going on within any one of those species. We may find that small individuals eat small prey and large individuals eat large prey _or_ small individuals may be able to eat large prey as easily as a large individual could (perhaps only a certain size range of prey is available or there is little difference in gape size between large and small lizards). So there may be a correlation within a species, or there may not. Even when there is a correlation _between_ species. My example is about stuff that I know about, and not natural selection in Drosophila, but I hope you can see that such a situation is possible. I think the bottom line is: Don't confuse variation _within_ populations with variation _between_ populations. (I mean statistical populations, not biological ones.) I would be interested to find out what other responses you get to your posting. Simon Blomberg simonb@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Zoology A08 School of Biological Sciences University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia ====================================================================== From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Dec 02 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!NS.UMB.EDU!etter%umbsky.dnet From: etter%umbsky.dnet@NS.UMB.EDU Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Faculty Position -- Population Biology -- UMass/Boston Message-ID: <9212032018.AA14136@ns.umb.edu> Date: 3 Dec 92 20:18:45 GMT Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: bionet Lines: 36 FACULTY POSITION AVAILABLE POPULATION BIOLOGIST University of Massachusetts at Boston Population Biologist. The Biology Department of the University of Massachusetts at Boston invites applications for a tenure-track position (assistant professor level) in population dynamics or systematics. Applicants in population dynamics should have research expertise in demographic or genetic models of populations, metapopulations, host- pathogen interactions or plant-herbivore systems. Applicants in systematics should have research expertise in the application of molecular and/or quantitative approaches to systematic problems. We are especially interested in candidates with interests in environmental issues such as conservation and biodiversity. We seek candidates with strong research credentials, including ability to attract extramural funding. In addition to basic research, duties will include teaching an advanced course in the area of specialization for the new doctoral track in Environmental Biology and contributing to established undergraduate courses that deal with topics in population biology. Post- doctoral experience preferred. Submit Curriculum Vitae, statements of interests and goals in research and teaching, and three letters of recommendation to: Biology Search Committee, Department of Biology, University of Massachusetts at Boston, 100 Morrissey Boulevard, Boston MA 02125-3393. Preference will be given to applications received by January 30, 1993. An equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sat Dec 05 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!sun.bdc.ubc.ca!burrows From: burrows@sun.bdc.ubc.ca (Jeff Burrows) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.population-bio,sci.bio Subject: Salmonid size-related survival: seeking info Keywords: trout, char, grayling, survival Message-ID: Date: 6 Dec 92 00:36:06 GMT Organization: Zoology, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada Lines: 33 Xref: biosci bionet.general:3707 bionet.population-bio:356 sci.bio:1116 NNTP-Posting-Host: sun.bcu.ubc.ca Hi I'm looking for information on size-related survival of salmonids, especially the following: -rainbow and cutthroat trout -Dolly Varden char, bull trout/char, and brook trout/char -Grayling in freshwater systems (streams and lakes, big and small). I'd welcome advice on how to get any: 1. "Grey" literature (i.e. unrefereed) reports from agencies at any level (province, state, federal, Canton, district, private sector) and from any continent, for wild or hatchery fish, although my interest is in wild fish, 2. Published or unpublished data, or verbal summaries, via addresses, authors, titles, direct mail or whatever you think of. I'd particularly appreciate a copy of reports! The province of B.C. will use this information in developing management strategies for its streams and lakes, and will acknowledge (of course) all sources in a Fish and Wildlife Branch technical report. Much obliged to all replies, which I'll ask that you send directly to me, as I will not be in terminal range during December. Jeff Burrows ___ | burrows@bcu.ubc.ca Fisheries Centre, U.B.C. \/ o\ | Vancouver, B.C. /\___/ | messages: 604 8222731 Canada, V6T 1Z4 | From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sat Dec 05 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!uwm.edu!wupost!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!frist From: frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.molbio.gene-linkage,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio Subject: Seeking ADVANCED textbook for "Intermediate Genetics" Keywords: genetics textbook, general genetics Message-ID: Date: 6 Dec 92 01:35:32 GMT Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 50 Xref: biosci sci.bio:1119 bionet.molbio.gene-linkage:136 bionet.plants:691 bionet.population-bio:357 Nntp-Posting-Host: spock.cc.umanitoba.ca I am looking for a comprehensive textbook in general genetics, to be used with a course entitled "Intermediate Genetics". This course attempts to revisit the material that students would get in a 1-semester introductory course, but at greater depth. Most Genetics programs of which I am aware have a single introductory course, and then advanced courses in specific areas, such as Population, Quantitative, Molecular, and Cytogenetics. We don't do it that way here and I'd rather not debate the wisdom of that issue right now. The point is, this the course that we have to offer. Unfortunately, most of the genetics texts of which I am aware are designed specifically for one semester courses, and are therefore pretty shallow in each area. In particular, the mathmatical aspects of genetics are usually breezed over. Specifically, I am thinking of Suzuki et al. INTRODUCTION TO GENETIC ANALYSIS Russel GENETICS Gardner et al. PRINCIPLES OF GENETICS We have been using Strickberger, GENETICS, which certainly fills the bill in terms of mathmatical depth, but the most recent (3rd) edition is from 1985, and in my opinion, was 10 years behind the times when it was written. The main reason for sticking with this book for so long has been the in depth treatment Strickberger gives to the practical aspects of Mendalian genetics eg. dominance relationships, detection of linkage, calculation of linkage intensity, linkage from F2 data, genetics of aneuploidy and so forth. The downside of this approach is that I have had to update just about everything else by supplementing the readings in the text with other material. This ends up being confusing for the students, and has been an enormous amount of work for me. A book I really like is Ayala & Kiger, MODERN GENETICS, but as far as I know the most recent edition is from 1980. The particular strengths of this book lie in population genetics and evolution, but again, for our purposes, it doesn't cover Mendelian and quantitative genetics in enough mathematical depth. Does anybody out there teach a similar course? Do you know of a text that fits our criteria? =============================================================================== Brian Fristensky | Department of Plant Science | Six days shall thou work, University of Manitoba | and do all thou art able Winnipeg, MB R3T 2N2 CANADA | The seventh the same frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca | and clean out the stable Office phone: 204-474-6085 | FAX: 204-261-5732 | =============================================================================== From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Dec 06 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!darwin.genetics.washington.edu!xia From: xia@darwin.genetics.washington.edu (Xia) Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.molbio.gene-linkage,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: Evolution of sexual reproduction. Message-ID: <1992Dec7.200938.16790@u.washington.edu> Date: 7 Dec 92 20:09:38 GMT References: Sender: X. Xia Organization: University of Washington Lines: 33 Xref: biosci sci.bio:1177 bionet.molbio.gene-linkage:137 bionet.plants:700 bionet.population-bio:358 Dear Netters, I have received many requests from fellow netters to continue the discussion on evoution of sex. As I have said before, I have written something about it. If anyone who knows of an anonymous FTP site to which I can deposit my manuscript, please let me and I should be glad to deposit my writings. Both are in WP 5.1 format. Currently I have two manuscripts. One is about 60 pages long (double- spaced) and the other is about 35 pages long (also double-spaced), which is a follow-up of the first. I am not particularly eager to send out hard copies to everyone interested because it would constitute a substantial burden to our department. I should be glad to hear from you if you want to receive computer copies. Let me know how I can reach you. If you are doing research in the area and wish to communicate ideas about each other's work, please let me know. On the other hand, if you are just interested in having an overview of the subject, then Williams (1975) and Maynard Smith (1978) are the best. If you are mathematically inclined and want to know the current development of sex evolution theory in relation to selection on a quantitative trait, you can contact Dr. B. Charlesworth who has published, and will publish more, papers on the subject. I found his writings difficult to understand. I have a feeling that the matter is substantially complex to be resolved by the news group discussion, which may actually foster misunderstanding rather than understanding. Xuhua Xia Department of Genetics U of Washington From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Thu Dec 17 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!agate!ames!olivea!archive From: archive@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (DCG Mktg Docmnt (Ivrea)) Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.med,bionet.population-bio Subject: sexual dimorphism on hands bones Message-ID: <57409@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> Date: 18 Dec 92 14:59:45 GMT Sender: news@olivea.atc.olivetti.com Followup-To: poster Lines: 22 Xref: biosci sci.archaeology:653 sci.anthropology:799 sci.med:5564 bionet.population-bio:359 We are writing a degree thesis based on a research regarding the hand's bones of the individuals belonging to Anthropology Museum of Torino (Italy), coming from the excavations campaign done in Egypt within 1903 and 1930, specifically to the sites of Asiut and Gebelen. Our research is focused on the study of the carpus and metacarpal in order to analyze sexual dimorphism connected to the differentiate use of the right hand and left hand, putting in evidence also the pathologies found. We would much appreciate if you kindly send us some worthy bibliography source on this topic. MANY THANKS +----------------------+ Maria Pia Gaiero phone +39 125 521164 Via Martinengo 36 FAX +39 125 521274 12063 Dogliani (CN) Italy +----------------------+ please answer to: -----> rinetti@olivej.atc.olivetti.com (129.189.134.6) or rinetti@xsft7.ico.olivetti.com (131.1.6.17) From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Dec 20 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!uwm.edu!caen!uunet!utcsri!utgpu!ritland From: ritland@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (K. Ritland) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Programs for estimating outcrossing Message-ID: Date: 21 Dec 92 16:52:17 GMT Distribution: bionet.population-bio,bionet.plants,bionet.software Organization: UTCS Public Access Lines: 16 Three programs for estimating outcrossing with genetic markers are now available from Don Gilbert's ftp.bio.indiana.edu archive. They are compiled for PCs and are archived in biology/ibmpc/ml.ZIP (you will need to unzip these files). All programs assume data is collected as progeny arrays, and all compute both single- and multilocus estimates of outcrossing, do family estimates, use the bootstrap, etc. (further details are in the documentation provided). The three programs are: 1. mlt - program for diploids using co-dominant markers 2. mldt - program for diploids using dominant markers such as RAPDs (co-dominant markers also allowed) 3. mltet - program for autotetraploids (co-dominant markers only) Kermit Ritland Dept. of Botany University of Toronto ritland@utcs.utoronto.ca From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Dec 20 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!agate!netsys!news.cerf.net!network.ucsd.edu!teetot.acusd.edu!thor From: thor@teetot.acusd.edu (Thor Brickman) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: BIOSYS and DIPBIG(SMALL) help... Message-ID: <1992Dec21.225707.9533@teetot.acusd.edu> Date: 21 Dec 92 22:57:07 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: usd Lines: 12 Help! I have a grad student who needs to use the BIOSYS and DIPBIG programs for her project analysis, but the executables she obtained did not have any documentation. She assures me these are in the public domain and are widely used. That being the case, can anyone send/tell me how to get said documentation? She is, of course, under a time constraint or I wouldn't waste bandwidth with this. Her executables are for a PC. Thanks in advance, Thor@eetot.acusd.edu -- From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Dec 21 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!GENETICS.WASHINGTON.EDU!joe From: joe@GENETICS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Joe Felsenstein) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: BIOSYS and DIPBIG(SMALL) help... Message-ID: <9212220033.AA06941@evolution.genetics.washington.edu> Date: 21 Dec 92 23:33:32 GMT References: <9212212341.AA04114@net.bio.net> Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: bionet Lines: 26 Thor Brickman wrote -- > Help! > > I have a grad student who needs to use the BIOSYS and DIPBIG programs > for her project analysis, but the executables she obtained did not have > any documentation. She assures me these are in the public domain and > are widely used. That being the case, can anyone send/tell me how to > get said documentation? She is, of course, under a time constraint or I > wouldn't waste bandwidth with this. Her executables are for a PC. Her assurance for BIOSYS may be wrong. I am not aware that it is in the public domain. It is sold by David Swofford (send $25 to the Center for Biodiversity, Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 East Peabody Drive, Champaign, Illinois 61820, U.S.A.). Swofford's other offering, PAUP, is definitely NOT in the public domain and not freely copyable. I do not know for sure for BIOSYS but she might check with the people in Illinois (Swofford has moved to the Smithsonian Institution but distribution of his programs is from Illinois). ----- Joe Felsenstein, Dept. of Genetics, Univ. of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 Internet: joe@genetics.washington.edu (IP No. 128.95.12.41) Bitnet/EARN: felsenst@uwavm From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Dec 28 22:00:00 1992 Path: biosci!agate!stanford.edu!morrow.stanford.edu!morrow.stanford.edu!not-for-mail From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: FUNDING ANNOUNCEMENT Message-ID: <1hqkj8INNqsc@morrow.stanford.edu> Date: 29 Dec 92 22:48:08 GMT Sender: news@morrow.stanford.edu Organization: Stanford University Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu ***FUNDING OPPORTUNITY*** Research Expeditions International is accepting applications for funding for research projects scheduled for 1994. Research Expeditions International specializes in Participatory Research, in which well-educated lay people provide funding and volunteer as the on-site work force. Studies best suited for Participatory Research involve data collection or unskilled labor which is easily taught to one or several groups of adults. Preference will be given to studies in the following areas: animal behavior; archaeological excavation; and tourist impact on culture, economy and ecology. Studies in other fields will certainly be considered if appropriate. Applications for the 1994 season are due February 1, 1993. For informational materials and application, contact: Gwyn Gordon gwyn.gordon@forsythe.stanford.edu 415-494-2515 806 Los Robles Avenue Palo Alto, CA 94306