From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 01 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!jhanson From: Jay Hanson Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: 35 YEARS LEFT? or less? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 08:02:51 -0800 (PST) X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org Lines: 72 35 YEARS LEFT? or less? .HOW CLOSE TO PRACTICAL LIMITS? ."There is accumulating evidence that humanity my soon have to .confront the real carrying capacity constraints. For example, nearly .40% of terrestrial net primary productivity (photosynthesis) is .already being used ('appropriated') by humans, one species among .millions, and this fraction is steadily increasing (Vitousek et al. .1986). If we take this percentage as an index of the human carrying .capacity of the earth and assume that a growing economy could come to .appropriate 80% of photosynthetic production before destroying the .functional integrity of the ecosphere, the earth will effectively go .from half to completely full within the next doubling period -- .currently about 35 years (Daly 1991). . ."The significance of this unprecedented convergence of economic scale .with that of the ecosphere is not generally appreciated in the .current debate on sustainable development. Because the human impact .on critical functions of the ecosphere is not uniform 'effective .fullness' may actually occur may actually occur well before the next .doubling of human activity. (Liebig's law reminds us that is takes .only a single critical limiting factor to constrain the entire .system.) Indeed, data presented in this chapter suggests that .long-term human carrying capacity may already have been at less than .the present 40% preemption of photosynthesis. If so, even current .consumption (throughput) cannot be sustained indefinitely, and .further material growth can be purchased only with accelerated .depletion of remaining natural capital stocks. . ."This conundrum can be illustrated another way by extrapolation from .our ecological footprint data. If the entire world population of 5.6 .billion were to use productive land at the rate of our .Vancouver/Lower Fraser Valley example, the total requirement would be .28.5 billion ha. In fact, the total land area of Earth is only just .over 13 billion ha, of which only 8.8 billion ha is productive .cropland, pasture, or forest. The immediate implications are .two-fold: first, as already stressed, the citizens of wealthy .industrial countries unconsciously appropriate far more than their .share of global carrying capacity; second, we would require an .additional 'two Earths,' assuming present technology and efficiency .levels, to provide for the present world population at Canadian's .ecological standard of living. In short, there may simply not be .enough natural capital around to satisfy current development .assumptions. The difference between the anticipated ecological .footprint of the human enterprise and the available land/natural .capital base is a measure 'sustainability gap' confronting .humankind." [p. 383] . .A CAUTIONARY NOTE ."We admittedly make no allowance for potentially large efficiency .gains or technological advances. Even at carrying capacity, further .economic growth is possible (but not necessarily desirable) if .resource consumption and waste production continue to decline per .unit GDP (Jacobs 1991). We should not, however, rely exclusively on .this conventional rationale. New technologies require decades to .achieve the market penetration needed to significantly influence .negative ecological trends. Moreover,there is no assurance that .savings will not simply be directed into alternative forms of .consumption. Efficiency improvements may actually increase rather .than decrease resource consumption (Saunders 1992). We are already .the limit in a world of rising material expectations in which the .human population is increasing by 94 million people per year. The .minimal food-land requirements alone each year for this number of new .people is 18,800,000 ha (at 5 people/ha, the current average .productivity of world agriculture) -- the equivalent of all cropland .in France." [p. 386] . . INVESTING IN NATURAL CAPITAL - 1994 - Island Press .Free catalog: 1-800-828-1302 or 1-707-983-6432 Fax 1-707-983-6164 Aloha, Jay From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 02 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!news From: "Eugene Ackerman, Ph.D." Subject: Thank you to Jay Hanson Message-ID: <87695.acker004@maroon.tc.umn.edu> X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_17A Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: dialup-1-47.gw.umn.edu X-Popmail-Charset: English Reply-To: Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:40:18 GMT Lines: 13 [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] Jay posted eight messages to this news group. I was fascinated to read them and od appreciate having that opportunity. I am particularly grateful to him for these postings. I have taken theliberty of forwarding them to several other persons; hopefully this has not violated network etiquette too badly! Walk in peace . . . . . . Gene The Amethyst Gemstone [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!cs.utk.edu!martha.utk.edu!utkux1.utk.edu!usenet From: WOSMITH@utkvx.utk.edu Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Position ANnouncement: Plant Ecology Date: 4 Jan 1995 14:37:46 GMT Organization: University of Tennessee Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3eebrq$hbc@utkux1.utk.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: tchm02a9.rmt.utk.edu X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) PLANT ECOLOGY THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE, KNOXVILLE The Botany Department and Graduate Program in Ecology invites applications for a tenure track ASSISTANT or ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR position in the area of PLANT ECOLOGY to begin August 1, 1995. Applicants must have a Ph.D. with expertise in either physiological, population or community ecology. A commitment to excellence in research and teaching is required. The successful applicant will be expected to establish a vigorous externally funded research program in plant ecology which includes a strong field orientation, as well as to supervise graduate students at the M.S. and Ph.D. levels. Candidates will be evaluated on the basis of research accomplishments and teaching effectiveness. Application materials should include curriculum vitae, a statement of research goals/plans, and a statement of teaching interests and philosophy. This material and three letters of reference should be sent to Chair, Plant Ecology Search Committee, Botany Department, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996-1100. Screening of applicant files will begin January 15, 1994. UTK is an EEO/AA/Title IX/Section 504/ADA Employer. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!CS.Arizona.EDU!uunet!caen!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!dingo.cc.uq.oz.au!agrbeard From: agrbeard@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au (Rodney Beard) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: Bioeconomic models Date: 4 Jan 1995 08:22:08 GMT Organization: University of Queensland Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3edlrg$fi7@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au> References: <3ed9ra$1ne@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) zl306231@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au (Peter Timmers) writes: > I am currently design a computer program to model a population of >red kangaroos. The main objective is to design a bioeconomic model >showing sustainable yields, how price will affect harvesting, and optimal >harvest strategies for the red kangaroos. I am having trouble with some >of the economics involved in this model, and I was wondering if anyone >knew of any previous examples of bioeconomic models for animals (except >the south pacific salmon fishery, and the saiga antelope model which I >have already)? > Thanks in advance, Peter Peter, you're at the source and don't even know it. I have a number of models that I've been working on that you would be interested in shall e-mail you as well, so that we can meet, I would be interested in your work. I am working on the bioeconomics of range management in the Ag department. Would be interested in anyone else out there with similar interests in bioeconomics/population dynamics of terrestrial ecosystems. Rodney Beard department of agriculture University of queensland From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 03 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!caen!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!dingo.cc.uq.oz.au!zl306231 From: zl306231@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au (Peter Timmers) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Bioeconomic models Date: 4 Jan 1995 04:57:14 GMT Organization: University of Queensland Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3ed9ra$1ne@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] I am currently design a computer program to model a population of red kangaroos. The main objective is to design a bioeconomic model showing sustainable yields, how price will affect harvesting, and optimal harvest strategies for the red kangaroos. I am having trouble with some of the economics involved in this model, and I was wondering if anyone knew of any previous examples of bioeconomic models for animals (except the south pacific salmon fishery, and the saiga antelope model which I have already)? Thanks in advance, Peter From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 04 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!fdn.fr!jussieu.fr!centre.univ-orleans.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!rzusuntk.unizh.ch!lucas From: lucas@molbio2.unizh.ch (Lucas Leuzinger) Subject: Warblefly, Botfly or Dermatobia sp. ???? Message-ID: <1995Jan5.184811.24764@rzu-news.unizh.ch> Sender: newsadm@rzu-news.unizh.ch (CNEWS ADMINISTRATION) Organization: University of Zurich, Switzerland X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:48:11 GMT Lines: 19 Hi ! I need for my diploma-thesis some or any information about the BOTFLY or the WARBLEFLY, Dermatobia hominis (Oestridae), that live in warm Central- and Southamerica ... Do you know any specialist or person working on this subject, or parasitic flies in general ???, any source of information ??? I'm very grateful for any kind of help !!! Please write me : Lucas Leuzinger lucas@molbio2.unizh.ch Thanks a lot! From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 04 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.molbio.rapd,bionet.molbio.yeast,bionet.mycology,bionet.n2-fixation,bionet.neuroscience,bionet.photosynthesis,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio,bionet.software,bionet.software.acedb,bionet.software.gcg,bionet.users.addresses,bionet.virology,bionet.women-in-bio,bionet.xtallography,biz.americast,biz.books.technical,biz.comp.hardware Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!xnet!quake.xnet.com!research From: crta@xnet.com (Norman Fraley) Subject: New Research & Testing Association Formed Message-ID: Sender: news@amiserv.chi.il.us Nntp-Posting-Host: research.crta.org Organization: Contract Research & Testing Association X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:53:53 GMT Lines: 66 Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:22623 bionet.molbio.proteins:3374 bionet.molbio.rapd:925 bionet.molbio.yeast:2110 bionet.mycology:1351 bionet.neuroscience:5641 bionet.photosynthesis:527 bionet.plants:4862 bionet.population-bio:1001 bionet.software:10553 bionet.software.acedb:518 bionet.software.gcg:897 bionet.users.addresses:2135 bionet.virology:1302 bionet.women-in-bio:1694 bionet.xtallography:1410 biz.americast:1037 biz.books.technical:741 biz.comp.hardware:7143 As the primary resource of research information, the Internet was the primary choice for making all concerned individuals aware of the formation of the Contract Research & Testing Association. CRTA is an International Association designed to serve the needs of contract research, product and process development organizations and consultants throughout the world. Contract research organizations have specific public, governmental, and industry perception and promotion needs which are not addressed by existing scientific industry associations. CRTA operates as a non-profit, tax-exempt, corporation eligible for scientific research and public awareness charitable organization contributions as provided for in the IRC 501(c)(3) provisions. Being a scientific research and public awareness related organization, CRTA exists to benefit its members by providing: 1) An organization devoted to the promotion of Contract Research. 2) A unified voice on matters of common interest or concern. 3) Point of contact for media relations relative to contract research. 4) Business opportunity referrals as a research clearinghouse. 5) Professional networking opportunities for its members. 6) Periodic publishing of information beneficial to the membership. 7) Periodic dissemination of applicable research results to the public. 8) Governmental representation on issues affecting CRO's. 9) Public promotion of the strengths of its membership. 10) A directory of Contract Research Organizations and Consultants. CRTA will provide: 1) A forum for the exchange of information. 2) Formal recognition to the CRO's role in business. 3) Standards for the professionals so engaged. 4) Representation the profession in matters of common interest. 5) The development of techniques and methods to improve the practice and management of CROs. CRTA will also offer: 1) A monthly news publication. 2) Annual meetings 3) Active promotional media publicity programs. 4) A professional placement service 5) A Contract Research Service Directory. 6) Media topics and contacts directory If you have an interest in joining the Contract Research & Testing Association, please E-mail your reply to crta@xnet.com. Please include: 1) The word "membership" in your RE: or header information, 2) Your interest in the association / your area of work, 3) Your dues payment preference (check, money order, credit card, company check, wire xfer, etc.) DO NOT INCLUDE ANY CREDIT CARD INFORMATION! Only your preference for the manner of payment. 4) Most importantly, your email address, and additional contact information if you desire. We will then e-mail membership information and ALL FURTHER INFORMATION directly to you at your email location. Thank you for taking the time to read this announcement. If membership in this program this does not appeal to you, thank you for your patience and understanding. Sincerely, Membership Department Contract Research & Testing Association Best Regards, Norman Fraley CRTA@xnet.com Executive Director BBS:708-515-0494 Contract Research & Testing Association From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Thu Jan 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hookup!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!ingber From: ingber@alumni.caltech.edu (Lester Ingber) Newsgroups: bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.proteins,bionet.molbio.rapd,bionet.molbio.yeast,bionet.mycology,bionet.n2-fixation,bionet.neuroscience,bionet.photosynthesis,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio,bionet.software,bionet.software.acedb,bionet.software.gcg,bionet.users.addresses,bionet.virology,bionet.women-in-bio,bionet.xtallography,biz.americast,biz.books.technical,biz.comp.hardware Subject: Re: New Research & Testing Association Formed Date: 6 Jan 1995 14:04:51 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Alumni Association Lines: 165 Message-ID: <3ejim3$eiq@gap.cco.caltech.edu> References: Reply-To: ingber@alumni.caltech.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu Xref: biosci bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:22646 bionet.molbio.proteins:3383 bionet.molbio.rapd:927 bionet.molbio.yeast:2117 bionet.mycology:1356 bionet.neuroscience:5655 bionet.photosynthesis:528 bionet.plants:4871 bionet.population-bio:1002 bionet.software:10566 bionet.software.acedb:519 bionet.software.gcg:898 bionet.users.addresses:2136 bionet.virology:1305 bionet.women-in-bio:1699 bionet.xtallography:1412 biz.americast:1044 biz.books.technical:744 biz.comp.hardware:7159 Norman: I like the concept of what you are trying to form, and so I would like to explain why I will not join now, but might be interested at some future time. My criticism is meant to be constructive, and I hope it will be accepted in this context. Since I think your organization is a great idea, I'm making my response public so that other researchers who might be turned off by some of these problems in your presentation also will keep an open mind to joining your organization in the future. (You really did span quite few bulletin boards!) : From crta@xnet.com Thu Jan 5 21:47:00 1995 : Return-Path: : Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:46:55 -0600 : From: Norman Fraley : To: ingber@alumni.caltech.edu : Subject: Membership information for CRTA : : Dear Mr. Ingber : : WHAT IS CRTA? : : CRTA, formally known as the Contract Research and Testing Association, is : an : international scientific organization whose primary objective is to build : awareness of the role of contract research in industry and in society, : represent the industry in matters of common interest and to provide a forum : for the exchange of ideas and techniques in the fields of Testing and : Applied : Research. If you are appealing to a large audience over the InterNet, you should follow some commonly accepted guidelines, e.g., delivering text in a most readable format, e.g., limiting lines to 79 characters, so that lines do not spill over on most 80-character screens. This is the most vital context of my critique, that you will not come across as a knowledgeable and professional organization unless you present yourself as such. For example, I put your 424-line e-mail reply to my follow-up to this posting through ispell, and here is a partial list which also does not register in `webster`: copywrite lnternational nonanalytical nonmicrobiology proovided spectroscopists toxicologists : CRTA is known for the efforts it has made in helping to promote the new and : rapidly growing industry of contract research. This is accomplished by a : network of nearly 700 commercial, industry, government, and academic : laboratories and individual product and process development consultants. : These promotional activities and other CRTA programs offer you, the : technical : professional, avenues for professional growth and recognition that only an : organization of CRTA's caliber can provide ... plus access to a wellspring : of : analytical, research and technical information. I question whether you already have such a membership, or this is what you aspire to? This is a reasonable question. Many people, like myself, are more sympathetic to an honest statement from a new operation, than to misleading advertisements. I note a number of journals and publications you (intend to?) make available, and I expect they have a price. Your fees for members of $125/yr is fair, if all these services are available now. All this is fine, but those prices should be stated up front. : Email: crta@xnet.com : WWW: www.xnet.com/~crta I tried this site, http://www.xnet.com/~crta, and found a short notice that it is under construction. I think it better to first do your homework, before advertising such a site, especially since you really are charging commercial rates for a commercial venture, your non-profit status notwithstanding. : copywrite 1994 Contract Research & Testing Association. This one is a real killer, demonstrating that you are not sensitive to one of the main concerns of contract research, the copyright (not the "copywrite"). Lester In article , Norman Fraley wrote: :As the primary resource of research information, the Internet was the :primary choice for making all concerned individuals aware of the formation :of the Contract Research & Testing Association. : :CRTA is an International Association designed to serve the needs of contract :research, product and process development organizations and consultants :throughout the world. Contract research organizations have specific public, :governmental, and industry perception and promotion needs which are not addressed :by existing scientific industry associations. CRTA operates as a non-profit, :tax-exempt, corporation eligible for scientific research and public awareness :charitable organization contributions as provided for in the IRC 501(c)(3) provisions. : :Being a scientific research and public awareness related organization, CRTA :exists to benefit its members by providing: : : 1) An organization devoted to the promotion of Contract Research. : 2) A unified voice on matters of common interest or concern. : 3) Point of contact for media relations relative to contract research. : 4) Business opportunity referrals as a research clearinghouse. : 5) Professional networking opportunities for its members. : 6) Periodic publishing of information beneficial to the membership. : 7) Periodic dissemination of applicable research results to the public. : 8) Governmental representation on issues affecting CRO's. : 9) Public promotion of the strengths of its membership. : 10) A directory of Contract Research Organizations and Consultants. : :CRTA will provide: : 1) A forum for the exchange of information. : 2) Formal recognition to the CRO's role in business. : 3) Standards for the professionals so engaged. : 4) Representation the profession in matters of common interest. : 5) The development of techniques and methods to improve the practice and : management of CROs. : :CRTA will also offer: : 1) A monthly news publication. : 2) Annual meetings : 3) Active promotional media publicity programs. : 4) A professional placement service : 5) A Contract Research Service Directory. : 6) Media topics and contacts directory : :If you have an interest in joining the Contract Research & Testing Association, :please E-mail your reply to crta@xnet.com. Please include: : :1) The word "membership" in your RE: or header information, :2) Your interest in the association / your area of work, :3) Your dues payment preference (check, money order, credit card, company check, wire xfer, etc.) : DO NOT INCLUDE ANY CREDIT CARD INFORMATION! Only your preference for the manner of payment. :4) Most importantly, your email address, and additional contact information if you desire. : :We will then e-mail membership information and ALL FURTHER INFORMATION :directly to you at your email location. Thank you for taking the time :to read this announcement. If membership in this program this does not :appeal to you, thank you for your patience and understanding. : :Sincerely, :Membership Department :Contract Research & Testing Association : : :Best Regards, : :Norman Fraley CRTA@xnet.com :Executive Director BBS:708-515-0494 :Contract Research & Testing Association -- /* Prof. Lester Ingber * * Lester Ingber Research E-Mail: ingber@alumni.caltech.edu * * P.O. Box 857 WWW: http://alumni.caltech.edu/~ingber/ * * McLean, VA 22101 Archive: ftp.alumni.caltech.edu:/pub/ingber/ */ From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Thu Jan 05 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!rlwilson From: rlwilson@iastate.edu (Richard L Wilson) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Worlds largest city Date: 6 Jan 1995 15:43:41 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa (USA) Lines: 6 Message-ID: <3ejofd$8lr@news.iastate.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sunflower.agron.iastate.edu I recently read that Mexico City is the worlds 4th largest city. I thought it was number 1. Does anyone have a list of the top 5? -- Richard L Wilson rlwilson@iastate.edu From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Fri Jan 06 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!VM.MPG.MCGILL.CA From: "Tom Murray - Teacher (Computers)" Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Date: 07 JAN 95 14:13:49 GMT -5 Organization: McGill University Systems Inc (MUSIC/SP) Lines: 4 Sender: usenet@MUSICM.MCGILL.CA Message-ID: <07JAN95.15368970.0021@VM.MPG.MCGILL.CA> NNTP-Posting-Host: vm.mpg.mcgill.ca I need to find up to date statistics on the populations, mortality rates and fertility rates of various countries around the world and was wondering if anyone could recommend a book to me. Thanks From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Larry Hamric <72665.1524@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Malthus Date: 12 Jan 1995 05:25:38 GMT Organization: via CompuServe Information Service Lines: 6 Message-ID: <3f2egi$m0r$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> I know generally of Malthus (from encyclopedia) and that for quite some time there was an organization formed based on his theories. I can't find a thing about him beyond this in bookstores, etc. Does anyone know of any (non-specialist) literature that deals directly with his ideas and doesn't just do a passing reference. If so, would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks: Larry Hamric From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 11 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!CARINS.CARIBOO.BC.CA!MASMITH From: MASMITH@CARINS.CARIBOO.BC.CA ("DNA: The splice of life") Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: Malthus Date: 12 Jan 1995 11:20:02 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 31 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3f2egi$m0r$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net I'm reading Elliot Sober's book called _The Nature of Selection_ (1993 edition) and he has a reference to Malthus's original manuscript. You might want to take a look at that. This is the reference as it appears in the reference section. Malthus, T. (1798): An Essay on the Principle of Population. New York: A.M. Kelly, 1965. hope this is of some help ciao fer now mike On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Larry Hamric wrote: > I know generally of Malthus (from encyclopedia) and that for quite > some time there was an organization formed based on his theories. > I can't find a thing about him beyond this in bookstores, etc. > Does anyone know of any (non-specialist) literature that deals > directly with his ideas and doesn't just do a passing reference. > If so, would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks: Larry Hamric > > ___________________________________________________________________ | Michael Smith: masmith@carins.cariboo.bc.ca | Ph: (604) 371-5518 | | University College of the Cariboo | | | Psychology Dept | Fax:(604) 371-5697 | |_____________________________________________|____________________| From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Fri Jan 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!biosci!not-for-mail From: emartins@oregon.uoregon.edu (Emilia P. Martins) Newsgroups: bionet.announce,bionet.molbio.evolution,bionet.population-bio,bionet.women-in-bio,bionet.cellbiol,bionet.general,bionet.jobs,bionet.microbiology,bionet.neuroscience Subject: Research Opportunity for Undergrads Date: 13 Jan 1995 16:30:31 -0800 Organization: Dept. of Biology, University of Oregon Lines: 29 Sender: biohelp@net.bio.net Approved: bionews-moderator@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Xref: biosci bionet.announce:1683 bionet.molbio.evolution:2282 bionet.population-bio:1008 bionet.women-in-bio:1723 bionet.cellbiol:1410 bionet.general:12875 bionet.jobs:7147 bionet.microbiology:1146 bionet.neuroscience:5788 SPUR '95 SUMMER PROGRAM FOR UNDERGRADUATE RESEARCH FOR MINORITY STUDENTS The University of Oregon Department of Biology announces several paid research positions available to minority undergraduates during Summer 1995. Students will participate in ongoing biological research at the University of Oregon on topics involving evolution, genetics, development, molecular biology, population and conservation biology. The program is funded primarily by a National Science Foundation Research Training Grant on the Genetic Mechanisms of Evolution and by the U of O Institute of Molecular Biology. Participating students are provided with funds for travel expenses, room & board, plus $1000/month during 2-3 months of Summer 1995. To apply, send letter of application, transcript, resume including statement of interests, and two letters of recommendation to: Summer Program for Undergraduate Research Department of Biology University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403. More information is available on the World Wide Web at: http://macarthur.uoregon.edu/Biology_WWW/Announcements/SPUR_95.html From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Fri Jan 13 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!usenet From: rwa@milo.berkeley.edu (Russell Anderson) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Preprint Available: Learning and Evolution Date: 14 Jan 1995 23:53:35 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 44 Message-ID: <3f9o5v$rqm@agate.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: rwa@milo.berkeley.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: milo.berkeley.edu Keywords: baldwin effect, critical learning periods PREPRINT AVAILABLE: Learning and evolution: A quantitative genetics approach Russell W. Anderson Visiting Scholar Department of Environmental Science, Policy, and Management University of California, Berkeley Correspondence Address: 2415 College Avenue #32 Berkeley, CA 94704 email: rwa@milo.berkeley.edu In press: J. theor. Biol. (1995) ABSTRACT: Recent models of the interactions between learning and evolution show that learning increases the rate at which populations find optima in fixed environments. However, learning ability is only advantageous in variable environments. In this study, I use quantitative genetics models to investigate the effects of individual learning on evolution. I construct and analyze two models of populations of learning individuals. In the first model, the effect of learning is represented as an increase in the variance of selection. I derive dynamical equations and equilibrium conditions for a population of learning individuals under fixed and variable environmental selection. In the second model, the amount of individual learning effort is regulated by a second gene specifying the duration of a critical learning period. The second model includes a model of the learning process to determine the individual fitness costs and benefits accrued during the learning period. Individuals are then selected for the optimal learning investment. The similarities of the results from these two models suggest that the net effects of learning on evolution are relatively independent of the mechanisms underlying the learning process. Keywords: Baldwin effect; phenotypic plasticity; learning; evolution; critical learning period; genetic assimilation From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!world!news.bu.edu!bio!colby From: colby@bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: talk.origins Date: 16 Jan 1995 21:07:03 GMT Organization: animal -- coelomate -- deuterostome Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3fen5o$e2j@news.bu.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> <1995Jan16.194236.2335@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bio.bu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1021 sci.anthropology:8979 sci.anthropology.paleo:1051 sci.bio:13555 sci.math:52739 sci.nonlinear:2070 sci.philosophy.tech:7607 sci.skeptic:64195 talk.origins:77089 talk.philosophy.misc:19376 talk.religion.misc:76320 Warren Lathe (madda@troi.cc.rochester.edu) wrote: : Yes, he is right. I am an avid geneologist. THe further back I go the more : cousins and other relatives I find married to each other. That is true : of most family lines. It wasn't so much a taboo generations ago, in fact : it was encouraged in many families and cultures (though sibling marriage : has been generally taboo through cultures and time). So, in other words, : those lines converge. Yes, but even in populations that preferentially outbreed, the lines intertwine. This is especially true of small populations (either geographically or socially isolated). Even if you go out of your way not to mate with a relative, but you live in what has been a small population for many generations, your mate will have _some_ amount of relatedness to you. : Warren C. Lathe III Chris Colby --- email: colby@biology.bu.edu or colby@acs.bu.edu --- "'My boy,' he said, 'you are descended from a long line of determined, resourceful, microscopic tadpoles--champions every one.'" --Kurt Vonnegut from "Galapagos" From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!nntp.sunbelt.net!DECKER@spt.tec.sc.us From: decker@spt.tec.sc.us Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 16 Jan 1995 17:12:38 GMT Organization: Spartanburg Technical College Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> Reply-To: decker@spt.tec.sc.us NNTP-Posting-Host: stc2.spt.tec.sc.us Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1013 sci.anthropology:8966 sci.anthropology.paleo:1038 sci.bio:13543 sci.math:52714 sci.nonlinear:2062 sci.philosophy.tech:7597 sci.skeptic:64173 talk.origins:77067 talk.philosophy.misc:19366 talk.religion.misc:76304 How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than the total known population of the earth? I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: Generation Population 1 2 (Mother and father) 2 4 (grandparents) 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... 20 1,048,576 30 1,073,741,841 Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks Art Decker decker@spt.tec.sc.us From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!akdemo From: Demonstration Account Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Natl. Optimum Population Proposal Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:42:30 -0800 (PST) X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org Lines: 118 Dear Reader, Below is a 2-page letter/proposal to the Clinton/Gore administration asking them to initiate a National Optimum Population Commission (NOPC). This is an effort to establish a National Commission to address the question of how many people can the U.S. support for the long-term with a high quality of life? Please read it, and if you support it, make a hard copy, sign it, and US Mail it to the NOPC address listed in the letter. Crucial to the success of this proposal is the support of organizations. Please bring the proposal to public and private organizations that you are involved with and ask for their endorsement as well. We will forward it to Clinton/Gore and a record will be kept of who and what organizations are endorsing it so our efforts are organized and kept track of. While e-mail is a great way to send the proposal to others, it's important to use snail-mail to carry out the formal communications. Thank you for your concern and support. Future generations will also thank you! _____________________________________________________________________ What: Proposal for a National Optimum Population Commission (NOPC) How:This national commission, to be established by the Clinton/Gore administration, would analyze and debate the question, "What is our optimum population?" After a 3 to 5 year information gathering period, the commission would summarize the input and then design a package of non-coercive educational, legislative, and public policy initiatives to place the USA on the path, during a long transitional time of 100-125 years, to achieving an optimum, sustainable population. Who: Commission members, chosen by Vice President Al Gore, would receive input from: -All the federal cabinet members -Business, environmental, and religious organizations -Selected Ph.D. candidates focusing their research on how "optimum population" relates to their respective fields of inquiry -Psychologists, demographers, and others deemed crucial to the process Overall emphasis should be placed upon assessment of the nation's climate, geography, renewable resource base, cultural preferences and other factors crucial to the achievement of long-term sustainability. Why: Most present-day human populations have tended to maximize rather than optimize. They are artificially supported by unsustainable or nonrenewable resources and technologies. We must move the population-pressure debate beyond denial and into the open light of public discourse. We must frame this discussion in new terms, understanding that "slowing growth" or "stabilizing" represent only transitional phases on the path to seeking an optimum, sustainable population. The key question must be How many people can we support in perpetuity under the most favorable circumstances with the highest quality of life? Historically we have thought we should do whatever we could do, with little regard for long-term consequences. We must now consider making profound changes - especially in the US. - in our lifestyle and in the ways we "do business with" the planetary resources that support us. By integrating the political, social, environmental and psychological effects of population pressure, this commission would involve us in a process to determine what is essential for our collective well-being. When: Now! Write Clinton/Gore urging them to establish a National Optimum Population Commission. Future generations will thank you. NOPC M Boyd Wilcox 1070 SE Denman Ave. Corvallis, OR 97333 ____________________________________________________________________ page 2: Vice President Al Gore Date: Old Executive Office Building Washington, DC 20501 Dear Mr. Vice President, Most of the major issues this nation is struggling to address - health care, jobs, natural-resource management, inner city conflicts, economic progress, and overall quality of life - are heavily impacted by population pressure. We ask that you begin to reverse this nation's denial toward the issue of population pressure, and move expeditiously to establish a National Optimum Population Commission (NOPC) as briefly described on the reverse side of this letter. We appreciate this administration's willingness to deal with difficult and complex issues and we realize the NOPC process will not be easy. But it will be far more difficult if we allow our population future to be decided by default, which is our present course. Furthermore, the expertise developed through engaging a NOPC would be a most valuable tool for helping any nation or bioregion to determine its optimum, sustainable population. This could truly be a worldwide precedent for promoting sustainability. Please initiate a National Optimum Population Commission. We would appreciate a reply to this request. Hopefully and sincerely yours, _______________________________________________________________________ Signature(s) Names(s)________________________________________________________________ Organization (if applicable)____________________________________________ Address_________________________________________________________________ City, State, Zip_________________________________________________________ From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!daresbury!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!clouso.crim.ca!athena.ulaval.ca!sbf.ulaval.ca!Eric.Begin From: Eric.Begin@sbf.ulaval.ca (Eric Bégin) Subject: Self-thinning (exchange ideas) Message-ID: Lines: 9 Sender: news@athena.ulaval.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: 132.203.4.33 Organization: Universite Laval X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1] Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 17:50:52 GMT I'm currently working on Master degree on self-thinning applied to Balsam Fir (Abies balsamea) in Eastern Canada. I would appreciate ideas exchange with any person who had interests in (growth vs density, self-thinning ...) ******************************************************************************* Eric Begin E-mail: Eric.Begin@sbf.ulaval.ca Universite Laval Quebec,Canada ******************************************************************************* From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!not-for-mail From: Wolfgang Wuster Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Venomous snake symposium, London Date: 15 Jan 1995 17:09:46 -0000 Lines: 30 Sender: lpddist@mserv1.dl.ac.uk Distribution: bionet Message-ID: <3fbksq$6bt@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> Original-To: pop-bio@dl.ac.uk Meeting Announcement Venomous Snakes: Ecology, Evolution and Snakebite This meeting will be held at the London Zoo on 27-28 April 1995, under the auspices of the Zoological Society of London. Workshop titles will include "Ecology", "Evolution, biogeography and systematics", "Molecular evolution" and "Venom and snakebite". Proceedings will be published as part of the "Symposia of the Zoological Society of London Series". For further information and registration forms, please contact: Mrs. Unity McDonnell, Zoological Society of London, Regent's Park, London NW1 4RY, England. Fax/Phone: +44 171 586 5321 ******************************************************************************* Dr. Wolfgang Wuster - Research Fellow Snailmail: Email: bss166@clss1.bangor.ac.uk School of Biological Sciences University of Wales Voicemail: +44 248 351151 extn. 2332 Bangor LL57 2UW Wales, UK ***NOTE NEW FAX NO.: +44 248 371644*** ******************************************************************************* From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!unixhub!roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU!sschaff From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Message-ID: Followup-To: sci.bio,talk.origins Sender: news@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feejb$e8j@shore.shore.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 21:01:12 GMT Lines: 30 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1020 sci.anthropology:8978 sci.anthropology.paleo:1050 sci.bio:13554 sci.math:52738 sci.nonlinear:2069 sci.philosophy.tech:7606 sci.skeptic:64194 talk.origins:77088 [Followups restricted to sci.bio and talk.origins] In article <3feejb$e8j@shore.shore.net>, whittet wrote: >In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us says: >> >>I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >>and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >>Generation Population >>1 2 (Mother and father) >>2 4 (grandparents) >>Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. >> >>What am I missing? > >The obvious, that not all of the people in your tree need to be in stable >monogamous, married, relationships, and that if your mother and father are >brother and sister, you only need to have two grandparents. The second half of your answer is obviously correct, but the first half is irrelevant to the question. Everyone in the poster's ancestral tree could have been in a stable, monogamous marriage, and he would still have many fewer ancestors than he thinks. -- Steve Schaffner sschaff@slac.stanford.edu The opinions expressed may be mine,|| Tell all the Truth, but tell it slant; and may not be those of SLAC, Stanford|| Success in Circuit lies. University, or the DOE. || Emily Dickenson From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!troi.cc.rochester.edu!madda From: madda@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Warren Lathe) Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Message-ID: <1995Jan16.194236.2335@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: troi.cc.rochester.edu Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 19:42:36 GMT Lines: 43 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1019 sci.anthropology:8977 sci.anthropology.paleo:1049 sci.bio:13552 sci.math:52737 sci.nonlinear:2068 sci.philosophy.tech:7605 sci.skeptic:64193 talk.origins:77087 talk.philosophy.misc:19374 talk.religion.misc:76317 In <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> danwell@iastate.edu (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: >In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us writes: >>How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >>the total known population of the earth? >> >>I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >>and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >>Generation Population >>1 2 (Mother and father) >>2 4 (grandparents) >>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >>20 1,048,576 >>30 1,073,741,841 >>Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. > You are counting individual people multiple times. I think your >incest taboo is way too strong. >-- >Dan Ashlock Yes, he is right. I am an avid geneologist. THe further back I go the more cousins and other relatives I find married to each other. That is true of most family lines. It wasn't so much a taboo generations ago, in fact it was encouraged in many families and cultures (though sibling marriage has been generally taboo through cultures and time). So, in other words, those lines converge. The numbers don't grow exponentially as you thought. Trey _________________________________________ Warren C. Lathe III Biology Department University of Rochester email: trey@thelab.biology.rochester.edu madda@troi.cc.rochester.edu _________________________________________ -- The juvenile seasquirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore so it eats it.It's rather like getting tenure. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!reg.triumf.ca!noel From: noel@reg.triumf.ca (NOEL_GIFFIN) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 16 Jan 1995 11:00 PST Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-ID: <16JAN199511002673@reg.triumf.ca> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1018 sci.anthropology:8976 sci.anthropology.paleo:1047 sci.bio:13551 sci.math:52735 sci.nonlinear:2067 sci.philosophy.tech:7604 sci.skeptic:64191 talk.origins:77085 talk.philosophy.misc:19373 talk.religion.misc:76316 In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us writes... >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? > Much of your ancestry is shared with others. Projecting backwords does not guarantee a doubling each generation. At some stage you have to start subtracting for common ancestry. Noel Giffin From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!news.bu.edu!bio!colby From: colby@bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: talk.origins Date: 16 Jan 1995 18:31:50 GMT Organization: animal -- coelomate -- deuterostome Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3fee2m$aei@news.bu.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bio.bu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1017 sci.anthropology:8975 sci.anthropology.paleo:1046 sci.bio:13550 sci.math:52733 sci.nonlinear:2066 sci.philosophy.tech:7603 sci.skeptic:64187 talk.origins:77082 talk.philosophy.misc:19372 talk.religion.misc:76314 decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: : Generation Population : 1 2 (Mother and father) : 2 4 (grandparents) : 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : 20 1,048,576 : 30 1,073,741,841 : Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks One thing you are missing is; your ancestors probably had other children besides the ones on a direct line for you. Do you have brothers/sisters, aunts/uncles, nieces/nephews etc.? Try drawing out a geneology and include _all_ relatives. Another thing you are missing is, when you go back far enough, the number of grandparents raised to Xth gets bigger and bigger, but some distant ancestors would have done "double duty" -- being a parent to more than one of your ancestors. You list just over a million ancestors at generation 20, these don't have to be (and if fact probably are not) one million _different_ people. Throw in the fact that some people have many children and some die without leaving any, and you'll probably have a better picture of what's going on. (I've set follow-ups to talk.origins.) : Art Decker Chris Colby --- email: colby@biology.bu.edu or colby@acs.bu.edu --- "'My boy,' he said, 'you are descended from a long line of determined, resourceful, microscopic tadpoles--champions every one.'" --Kurt Vonnegut from "Galapagos" From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!hookup!newshost.marcam.com!news.mathworks.com!noc.near.net!shore.shore.net!usenet From: whittet@shore.net (whittet) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 16 Jan 1995 18:40:43 GMT Organization: North Shore Access Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3feejb$e8j@shore.shore.net> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: berthb4.shore.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1016 sci.anthropology:8974 sci.anthropology.paleo:1044 sci.bio:13547 sci.math:52729 sci.nonlinear:2065 sci.philosophy.tech:7602 sci.skeptic:64183 talk.origins:77080 In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us says: > >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? > >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >Generation Population >1 2 (Mother and father) >2 4 (grandparents) >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >20 1,048,576 >30 1,073,741,841 >Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. > >What am I missing? The obvious, that not all of the people in your tree need to be in stable monogamous, married, relationships, and that if your mother and father are brother and sister, you only need to have two grandparents. Please email your response to me. Thanks >Art Decker >decker@spt.tec.sc.us From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!danwell From: danwell@iastate.edu (Daniel A Ashlock) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 16 Jan 1995 17:34:04 GMT Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pv3439.vincent.iastate.edu Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1014 sci.anthropology:8969 sci.anthropology.paleo:1039 sci.bio:13544 sci.math:52716 sci.nonlinear:2063 sci.philosophy.tech:7599 sci.skeptic:64177 talk.origins:77072 talk.philosophy.misc:19369 talk.religion.misc:76305 In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us writes: >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? > >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >Generation Population >1 2 (Mother and father) >2 4 (grandparents) >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >20 1,048,576 >30 1,073,741,841 >Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. You are counting individual people multiple times. I think your incest taboo is way too strong. -- Dan Ashlock From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Sun Jan 15 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.ksu.ksu.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hptemp1.cc.umr.edu!mstauter From: mstauter@saucer.cc.umr.edu (Mark Stauter) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 16 Jan 1995 22:13:03 GMT Organization: UMR Missouri's Technological University Lines: 51 Message-ID: <3fer1f$7go@hptemp1.cc.umr.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> <1995Jan16.194236.2335@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: saucer.cc.umr.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1022 sci.anthropology:8980 sci.anthropology.paleo:1052 sci.bio:13556 sci.math:52742 sci.nonlinear:2071 sci.philosophy.tech:7608 sci.skeptic:64198 talk.origins:77093 talk.philosophy.misc:19379 talk.religion.misc:76324 Warren Lathe (madda@troi.cc.rochester.edu) wrote: : In <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> danwell@iastate.edu (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: : >In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us writes: : >>How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than : >>the total known population of the earth? : >> : >>I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother : >>and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: : >>Generation Population : >>1 2 (Mother and father) : >>2 4 (grandparents) : >>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : >>20 1,048,576 : >>30 1,073,741,841 : >>Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : > You are counting individual people multiple times. I think your : >incest taboo is way too strong. : >-- : >Dan Ashlock : Yes, he is right. I am an avid geneologist. THe further back I go the more : cousins and other relatives I find married to each other. That is true : of most family lines. It wasn't so much a taboo generations ago, in fact : it was encouraged in many families and cultures (though sibling marriage : has been generally taboo through cultures and time). So, in other words, : those lines converge. The numbers don't grow exponentially as you thought. : Trey : _________________________________________ : Warren C. Lathe III : Biology Department : University of Rochester : email: trey@thelab.biology.rochester.edu : madda@troi.cc.rochester.edu : _________________________________________ : -- : The juvenile seasquirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock : or coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task it has a : rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it : doesn't need its brain anymore so it eats it.It's rather like getting tenure. Just for the record, it's called "pedigree collapse," and is very well known in the fields of genealogy, population statistics, etc. Mark S. mstauter@umr.edu From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!emartins1.uoregon.edu!user From: emartins@oregon.uoregon.edu (Emilia P. Martins) Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.jobs,bionet.cellbiol,sci.bio,sci.bio.ecology,bionet.women-in-bio,bionet.population-bio,bionet.molbio.evolution,sci.bio.ethology Subject: Summer Undergrad Research Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 16:48:55 -0800 Organization: Dept. of Biology, University of Oregon Lines: 30 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: emartins1.uoregon.edu Xref: biosci bionet.general:12925 bionet.jobs:7183 bionet.cellbiol:1418 sci.bio:13562 sci.bio.ecology:7326 bionet.women-in-bio:1730 bionet.population-bio:1023 bionet.molbio.evolution:2294 sci.bio.ethology:709 SPUR '95 SUMMER PROGRAM FOR UNDERGRADUATE RESEARCH FOR MINORITY STUDENTS The University of Oregon Department of Biology announces several paid research positions available to minority undergraduates during Summer 1995. Students will participate in ongoing biological research at the University of Oregon on topics involving evolution, genetics, development, molecular biology, population and conservation biology. The program is funded primarily by a National Science Foundation Research Training Grant on the Genetic Mechanisms of Evolution and by the U of O Institute of Molecular Biology. Participating students are provided with funds for travel expenses, room & board, plus $1000/month during 2-3 months of Summer 1995. To apply, send letter of application, transcript, resume including statement of interests, and two letters of recommendation to: Summer Program for Undergraduate Research Department of Biology University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403. More information is available on the World Wide Web at: http://macarthur.uoregon.edu/Biology_WWW/Announcements/SPUR_95.html From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!taf2 From: taf2@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd A. Farmerie) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 17 Jan 1995 02:08:21 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 72 Message-ID: <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> Reply-To: taf2@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd A. Farmerie) NNTP-Posting-Host: owl.ins.cwru.edu Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1024 sci.anthropology:8990 sci.anthropology.paleo:1056 sci.bio:13565 sci.math:52766 sci.nonlinear:2072 sci.philosophy.tech:7609 sci.skeptic:64226 talk.origins:77126 talk.philosophy.misc:19390 talk.religion.misc:76348 In a previous article, decker@spt.tec.sc.us () says: >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? > >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >Generation Population >1 2 (Mother and father) >2 4 (grandparents) >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >20 1,048,576 >30 1,073,741,841 >Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. > >What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks This is nothing new to genealogist. Prior to recent times, people lived in small towns with little mixing. Even with forty families in this small town, it would not take long for all residents of the town to be descended from all forty of the original families. Taking your calculations in reverse, a potential spouse would be descended from: Generation # of founding families descended from: 1 1 (parents) 2 2 (mother's & father's) 3 4 (each grandparent) 4 8 5 16 6 32 I will stop here because after only 6 generations (ca. 180 years) a potential bride is descended from over half of the original families. The groom is also descended from the same number, and thus every bride and groom will both be descended from (assuming no prior intermarriage) 24 of the founding couples, and each only have 8 unique to them. Take this another three generations, and every potential partner is descended from every one of the founding families. After this point, not a single new ancestor is added with each successive generation. (Many New England towns were approaching the point where there were few unrelated brides by the time of the American Revolution.) Each immigrant to the community carried new ancestors, but these likely came from the adjacent town, and descended from all of the families there. Thus, after the spread of that blood through the new town, a second immigrant from that town would add nothing. In addition, with an expanding population, the neighboring town probably descends from the same founder population as the founders of the town in question did. When this pattern is viewed over a millenium (or more) that passed between major population movevents, it leaves everyone within a large area descended from a small number of founders 30 generations before, with few additional ancestors added from the time of that starting point, even when marrying someone from the next county or region. This discussion, of course, focusses on European models, but in other parts of the world, different marriage patterns (such as always getting a bride from a neighboring community) result in the same effect over 30 generations, that being no new ancestors with additional generations. As you can see, this is nothing that cannot easily be explained, nothing to be sceptical about and nothing that has any bearing on some of the other groups that this is cross posted to. Whatever your point was, there is nothing amiss here. Todd From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!rosevax!reddwarf!grante From: grante@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Message-ID: <1995Jan17.060531.24513@rosevax.rosemount.com> Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (Rosevax USENET News auto-admin account) Nntp-Posting-Host: reddwarf Organization: Fisher-Rosemount, Rosemount Inc. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 06:05:31 GMT Lines: 40 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1028 sci.anthropology:8999 sci.anthropology.paleo:1064 sci.bio:13574 sci.math:52815 sci.nonlinear:2076 sci.philosophy.tech:7613 sci.skeptic:64245 talk.origins:77161 talk.philosophy.misc:19410 talk.religion.misc:76371 decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: : How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation : than the total known population of the earth? : I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a : mother and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look : like so: : Generation Population : 1 2 (Mother and father) : 2 4 (grandparents) : 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : 20 1,048,576 : 30 1,073,741,841 : Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks Your mistake is in assuming that nobody ever marries somebody to whom they are even remotely related, that they don't have a single ancestor in common. To show what happens when this assumption isn't true, let's assume that your parents are brother and sister. That means that you only have two grandparents, not four (and I'd count those fingers and toes again, if that's the case). If we assume that your parents are first-cousins, then you only have six great-grandparents rather than the eight you calculated. Somewhere along the way back, somebody married (or mated with) their Nth cousin, which then means the set of ancesntors from one branch isn't disjoint from the set of ancestors from the other branch. -- Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! I want to read my new Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | poem about pork brains and | is the question, and | outer space... grante@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!swiss.ans.net!potogold.rmii.com!lucky.innet.com!4262.innet.com!ulf From: ulf@innet.com (Ulf Lindroth) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 01:18:39 LOCAL Organization: Internet Network Corporation Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 4262.innet.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1027 sci.anthropology:8998 sci.anthropology.paleo:1062 sci.bio:13571 sci.math:52804 sci.nonlinear:2075 sci.philosophy.tech:7612 sci.skeptic:64242 talk.origins:77155 talk.philosophy.misc:19403 talk.religion.misc:76362 >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >Generation Population >1 2 (Mother and father) >2 4 (grandparents) >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >20 1,048,576 >30 1,073,741,841 >Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. >What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks >Art Decker >decker@spt.tec.sc.us Guess: 1: Many lines die out at some point. 2: Other lines rejoin with distant relatives. Ulf From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: jff@ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Friedman) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 17 Jan 1995 04:00:34 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk1-11.ix.netcom.com Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1026 sci.anthropology:8994 sci.anthropology.paleo:1058 sci.bio:13569 sci.math:52790 sci.nonlinear:2074 sci.philosophy.tech:7611 sci.skeptic:64237 talk.origins:77143 talk.philosophy.misc:19396 talk.religion.misc:76354 In <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@lehigh.edu (Peter Vorobieff) writes: > >In article <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, taf2@po.CWRU.Edu spake thusly: >> >> >>In a previous article, decker@spt.tec.sc.us () says: >> >>>Generation Population >>>1 2 (Mother and father) >>>2 4 (grandparents) >>>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >>>20 1,048,576 >>>30 1,073,741,841 > >The chances of 2^n being an odd number are rather small, methinks. > Welcome to the new world of pentium math. -- Jeffrey F. Friedman jff@ix.netcom.com jeff@friedman.com From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!cs.mun.ca!evans From: evans@cs.mun.ca (Geoff Evans) Subject: etymology of logistic equation Message-ID: <1995Jan17.110908.20564@cs.mun.ca> Sender: usenet@cs.mun.ca (NNTP server account) Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:09:08 GMT Lines: 5 Does anybody know why "logistic" is a sensible name for the differential equation dx/dt = ax(1-bx) ? Thanks, geoff evans@mrspock.nwafc.nf.ca From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!uw-coco!uw-beaver!cornell!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: lyy1@cornell.edu (Lev Yampolsky) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 16 Jan 1995 18:18:18 GMT Organization: Cornell University Lines: 32 Sender: lyy1@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.236.111.157 In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >the total known population of the earth? > >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >Generation Population >1 2 (Mother and father) >2 4 (grandparents) >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... Well, fairly simple! Your calculations are correct, only if 1)your parents are completely unrelated, their parents are unrelated to each other, etc. and 2)if everybody leaves the same number of offspring. Both are, of coarse, not true. All people on Earth are at average 10th to 20th (depending on their origin) cousins of their compatriats. So you counted each of you ancestors many times, while in fact, your, say, 50th great-grand...mother might have passed her genes down to you through dozens of independent routs. On the other hand, think about, for instance, two Germanic tribe chieftans who fathered all kids in their tribes around 100 BC and then their children interbred with one another, etc. to produce you and possibly me. (Or, sorry in advance, if you don't belong to the Caucasian race, think of other chieftans in Africa or China or elsewhere.) Anyway, in doing so these two able guys reduced you estimate of your male ancestors in the 100th generation from now from 2^100 to just 2. Hope this helps. Lev Yampolsky From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Mon Jan 16 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!usenet From: pv02@lehigh.edu (Peter Vorobieff) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 17 Jan 1995 02:40:40 GMT Organization: The Pit of Shoggoths Lines: 25 Message-ID: <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: navier.me.lehigh.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.11 Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1025 sci.anthropology:8992 sci.anthropology.paleo:1057 sci.bio:13567 sci.math:52782 sci.nonlinear:2073 sci.philosophy.tech:7610 sci.skeptic:64235 talk.origins:77136 talk.philosophy.misc:19393 talk.religion.misc:76351 In article <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, taf2@po.CWRU.Edu spake thusly: > > >In a previous article, decker@spt.tec.sc.us () says: > >>How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >>the total known population of the earth? >> >>I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >>and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >>Generation Population >>1 2 (Mother and father) >>2 4 (grandparents) >>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >>20 1,048,576 >>30 1,073,741,841 The chances of 2^n being an odd number are rather small, methinks. -- Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Slayer of One Robot and Seven Pigs. DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed in the article above, if any, are channeled from the Fungi of Yuggoth and do not necessarily represent the views of my other employers. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!arlut.utexas.edu!pearson From: pearson@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Shirlene Pearson) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 18 Jan 1995 22:38:11 GMT Organization: Applied Research Laboratories - The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3fk58j$13g@ns1.arlut.utexas.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: moria.arlut.utexas.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1043 sci.anthropology:9053 sci.anthropology.paleo:1090 sci.bio:13624 sci.math:52994 sci.nonlinear:2096 sci.philosophy.tech:7632 sci.skeptic:64392 talk.origins:77380 talk.philosophy.misc:19488 talk.religion.misc:76541 Ulf Lindroth (ulf@innet.com) wrote: : >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than : >the total known population of the earth? : >I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother : >and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: : >Generation Population : >1 2 (Mother and father) : >2 4 (grandparents) : >3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : >20 1,048,576 : >30 1,073,741,841 : >Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : >What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks : >Art Decker : >decker@spt.tec.sc.us : Guess: : 1: Many lines die out at some point. : 2: Other lines rejoin with distant relatives. Still other lines join with not so distant relatives. It has only been fairly recently that first cousins were not allowed to marry. Even at the turn of the century in the U.S., you still saw cases (many) of first cousin marriages, and such marriages are still allowed in many countries outside the U.S. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!danwell From: danwell@iastate.edu (Daniel A Ashlock) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 18 Jan 1995 16:39:05 GMT Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3fjg79$f3l@news.iastate.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3fhs06$nek@ns5.nba.TRW.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: pv3439.vincent.iastate.edu Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1041 sci.anthropology:9045 sci.anthropology.paleo:1085 sci.bio:13614 sci.math:52966 sci.nonlinear:2094 sci.philosophy.tech:7627 sci.skeptic:64359 talk.origins:77346 talk.philosophy.misc:19474 talk.religion.misc:76520 In article <3fhs06$nek@ns5.nba.TRW.COM>, rsm@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE (Robert S. Margulies) writes: >decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: >: How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than >: the total known population of the earth? > >: I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother >: and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: >: Generation Population >: 1 2 (Mother and father) >: 2 4 (grandparents) >: 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >: 20 1,048,576 >: 30 1,073,741,841 >: Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. > >: What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks >: Art Decker >: decker@spt.tec.sc.us > >There are those among us who feel that if you go back only a little >further, the process converges at a limiting value of 2. See, e.g., >Genesis. Of course these feeling require you ignore recently published scientific evidence that the series has a local minimum of about 100,000 a whole lot farther back :-). For that matter, it require you be able to claim an exponentially growing series can converge to 2 :-) :-). Gee, those wacky literalists. -- Dan Ashlock From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!daresbury!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!slxsys!pipex!pipex!uunet!news.usis.com!earlobe From: earlobe@usis.com (Earlobe) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 18 Jan 1995 02:28:21 GMT Organization: USiS Internet Services +713 682 1666 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3fhuc5$clh@news.usis.com> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: usis.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1042 sci.anthropology:9048 sci.anthropology.paleo:1087 sci.bio:13618 sci.math:52971 sci.nonlinear:2095 sci.philosophy.tech:7629 sci.skeptic:64376 talk.origins:77362 talk.philosophy.misc:19481 talk.religion.misc:76535 decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: : How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than : the total known population of the earth? : I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother : and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: : Generation Population : 1 2 (Mother and father) : 2 4 (grandparents) : 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : 20 1,048,576 : 30 1,073,741,841 : Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks : Art Decker : decker@spt.tec.sc.us Maybe the fact that not all people live forever.. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 18 Jan 1995 10:56:31 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 33 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3fis4v$q74@gap.cco.caltech.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>,<3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1034 sci.anthropology:9025 sci.anthropology.paleo:1074 sci.bio:13603 sci.math:52938 sci.nonlinear:2087 sci.philosophy.tech:7621 sci.skeptic:64342 talk.origins:77319 talk.philosophy.misc:19461 talk.religion.misc:76501 In article <3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, jff@ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Friedman) writes: =In <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@lehigh.edu (Peter Vorobieff) =writes: = => =>In article <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, taf2@po.CWRU.Edu spake thusly: =>> =>> =>>In a previous article, decker@spt.tec.sc.us () says: =>> = =>>>Generation Population =>>>1 2 (Mother and father) =>>>2 4 (grandparents) =>>>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... =>>>20 1,048,576 =>>>30 1,073,741,841 => =>The chances of 2^n being an odd number are rather small, methinks. => = =Welcome to the new world of pentium math. Wait a minute! This was a fixed-point calculation. Not even the Pentium has trouble with those. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!rutgers!uwm.edu!caen!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU!mgk From: mgk@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU (Mahlon G. Kelly) Subject: Re: etymology of logistic equation Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: uva References: <1995Jan17.110908.20564@cs.mun.ca> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 06:18:24 GMT Lines: 18 evans@cs.mun.ca writes: > Does anybody know why "logistic" is a sensible name for the > differential equation dx/dt = ax(1-bx) ? > Thanks, geoff > > evans@mrspock.nwafc.nf.ca I tried, very seriously, for ca. 20 years to find out why Verhulst used that name for the equation. I looked at military supplies, etc. No answer. An elderly gent told me that the word was chosen arbitrarily. IF YOU GET AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I WILL EVEN PAY $$$ FOR A PROVEN ANSWER!!! -- Associate Professor (Emeritus) University of Virginia mgk@darwin.clas.virginia.edu From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 18 Jan 1995 03:28:40 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3fi1t8$30i@gap.cco.caltech.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1032 sci.anthropology:9015 sci.anthropology.paleo:1071 sci.bio:13594 sci.math:52908 sci.nonlinear:2083 sci.philosophy.tech:7619 sci.skeptic:64319 talk.origins:77277 talk.philosophy.misc:19443 talk.religion.misc:76441 In article <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net>, decker@spt.tec.sc.us writes: =How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than =the total known population of the earth? = =I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother =and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: =Generation Population =1 2 (Mother and father) =2 4 (grandparents) =3 8 (greatgrandparents).... =20 1,048,576 =30 1,073,741,841 =Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. = =What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks That, for example, one of your great-great grandmothers on your mother's side could also have been one of your great-great grandmothers on your father's side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!bcm!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!news.trw.com!ns5.nba.trw.com!odel.sp.TRW.COM!rsm From: rsm@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE (Robert S. Margulies) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 18 Jan 1995 01:47:50 GMT Organization: Disorganization Lines: 28 Message-ID: <3fhs06$nek@ns5.nba.TRW.COM> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> Reply-To: rsm@odel.sp.trw.com NNTP-Posting-Host: odel.sp.TRW.COM X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1031 sci.anthropology:9012 sci.anthropology.paleo:1070 sci.bio:13592 sci.math:52900 sci.nonlinear:2082 sci.philosophy.tech:7618 sci.skeptic:64312 talk.origins:77261 talk.philosophy.misc:19437 talk.religion.misc:76430 decker@spt.tec.sc.us wrote: : How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than : the total known population of the earth? : I know for a fact that I have a mother and a father who each has a mother : and a father, etc... The direct ancestral chart would look like so: : Generation Population : 1 2 (Mother and father) : 2 4 (grandparents) : 3 8 (greatgrandparents).... : 20 1,048,576 : 30 1,073,741,841 : Going backwards it does not take too long to run into a problem. : What am I missing? Please email your response to me. Thanks : Art Decker : decker@spt.tec.sc.us There are those among us who feel that if you go back only a little further, the process converges at a limiting value of 2. See, e.g., Genesis. -- Please ignore incorrect address above. The correct address is rsm@odel.sp.trw.com Responses will be posted correctly. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!cello.gina.calstate.edu!cello.gina.calstate.edu!not-for-mail From: hhowatt@cello.gina.calstate.edu (H. Brent Howatt) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: sci.bio,sci.math,sci.skeptic,talk.origins Date: 18 Jan 1995 08:20:36 -0800 Organization: Pacific Biological Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3fjf4k$ap4@cello.gina.calstate.edu> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>,<3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3fis4v$q74@gap.cco.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cello.gina.calstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1040 sci.anthropology:9044 sci.anthropology.paleo:1084 sci.bio:13613 sci.math:52963 sci.nonlinear:2093 sci.philosophy.tech:7626 sci.skeptic:64358 talk.origins:77345 talk.philosophy.misc:19473 talk.religion.misc:76519 Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote: : =Welcome to the new world of pentium math. : Wait a minute! This was a fixed-point calculation. Not even the Pentium has : trouble with those. Yeah, but your Windoze calculator does! -- H. Brent Howatt, Loss Control Analyst | The first days are the hardest days, Humboldt County Office of Education | Don't you worry any more. Eureka, California | When life looks like Easy Street, Behind the Redwood Curtain | There is danger at your door. ============================================================================ hhowatt@cello.gina.calstate.edu PGP public key by FINGER or e-mail From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!dragon.acadiau.ca!liblab-11.acadiau.ca!910358s From: 910358s@axe.acadiau.ca (BRIAN K. SMITH) Subject: effects of overpopulation Message-ID: <910358s.14.2F1D3254@axe.acadiau.ca> Lines: 16 Sender: news@relay.acadiau.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: liblab-11.acadiau.ca Organization: Acadia University X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1] Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:23:00 GMT Lines: 16 Hello there, I'm just a student researching one of the human predicaments. Our library here is pretty limited, can anyone suggest any good articles, periodicals, or other sources of reference for the effects of over population. I haven't narrowed in on which way I want to go with this so any direction is fine. I'll look over what I have and decide on where to go. Thanx. Brian 910358s@axe.acadiau.ca From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: jff@ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Friedman) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 18 Jan 1995 13:41:12 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 31 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3fj5po$268@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>,<3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3fis4v$q74@gap.cco.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk7-08.ix.netcom.com Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1038 sci.anthropology:9031 sci.anthropology.paleo:1079 sci.bio:13609 sci.math:52950 sci.nonlinear:2092 sci.philosophy.tech:7625 sci.skeptic:64349 talk.origins:77327 talk.philosophy.misc:19467 talk.religion.misc:76509 In <3fis4v$q74@gap.cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: > >In article <3fffd2$lbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, jff@ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Friedman) writes: >=In <3ffan8$130u@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@lehigh.edu (Peter Vorobieff) >=writes: >=>In article <3ff8ql$8u6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, taf2@po.CWRU.Edu spake thusly: >=>> >=>>In a previous article, decker@spt.tec.sc.us () says: >=>>>Generation Population >=>>>1 2 (Mother and father) >=>>>2 4 (grandparents) >=>>>3 8 (greatgrandparents).... >=>>>20 1,048,576 >=>>>30 1,073,741,841 >=> >=>The chances of 2^n being an odd number are rather small, methinks. >= >=Welcome to the new world of pentium math. > >Wait a minute! This was a fixed-point calculation. Not even the Pentium has >trouble with those. No, his ancestors came over in a boat, so he's doing a floating point calculation. -- Jeffrey F. Friedman jff@ix.netcom.com jeff@friedman.com From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!thedavid (Caligula Sequel) From: thedavid (Caligula Sequel)@clark.net () Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: 18 Jan 1995 13:30:28 GMT Organization: The Moral Wilderness, Unltd. Lines: 3 Message-ID: <3fj55k$556@clarknet.clark.net> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> <1995Jan16.194236.2335@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <3fer1f$7go@hptemp1.cc.umr.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1037 sci.anthropology:9030 sci.anthropology.paleo:1077 sci.bio:13608 sci.math:52947 sci.nonlinear:2091 sci.philosophy.tech:7624 sci.skeptic:64348 talk.origins:77325 talk.philosophy.misc:19466 talk.religion.misc:76508 Isn't "pedigree collapse" an _OUT_-breeding, as with poodles and Ptolemies? Please clarify. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!thedavid (Caligula Sequel) From: thedavid (Caligula Sequel)@clark.net () Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Followup-To: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc Date: 18 Jan 1995 13:16:24 GMT Organization: The Moral Wilderness, Unltd. Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3fj4b8$556@clarknet.clark.net> References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1036 sci.anthropology:9029 sci.anthropology.paleo:1076 sci.bio:13607 sci.math:52946 sci.nonlinear:2090 sci.philosophy.tech:7623 sci.skeptic:64346 talk.origins:77324 talk.philosophy.misc:19464 talk.religion.misc:76507 Ulf Lindroth (ulf@innet.com) wrote: : >How can we possibly have more ancestors in a coexisting generation than : >the total known population of the earth? (snip) : 2: Other lines rejoin with distant relatives. ^^^^^^^ Not in West Virginia, we don't! From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Tue Jan 17 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!galaxy.ucr.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!ee.und.ac.za!inet.up.ac.za!goofy.unisa.ac.za!pc-hayesstw.unisa.ac.za!hayesstw From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.bio,sci.math,sci.nonlinear,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.skeptic,talk.origins,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc,soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: ANCESTRY QUESTION? Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:56:59 GMT Organization: University of South Africa Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <3fe9e6$ha6@ns.sunbelt.net> <3feamc$hqa@news.iastate.edu> <1995Jan16.194236.2335@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <3fen5o$e2j@news.bu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-hayesstw.unisa.ac.za Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1035 sci.anthropology:9026 sci.anthropology.paleo:1075 sci.bio:13604 sci.math:52942 sci.nonlinear:2089 sci.philosophy.tech:7622 sci.skeptic:64344 talk.origins:77321 talk.philosophy.misc:19463 talk.religion.misc:76505 soc.genealogy.misc:1915 In article <3fen5o$e2j@news.bu.edu> colby@bio.bu.edu (Chris Colby) writes: >: Yes, he is right. I am an avid geneologist. THe further back I go the more >: cousins and other relatives I find married to each other. That is true >: of most family lines. It wasn't so much a taboo generations ago, in fact >: it was encouraged in many families and cultures (though sibling marriage >: has been generally taboo through cultures and time). So, in other words, >: those lines converge. > >Yes, but even in populations that preferentially outbreed, the lines >intertwine. This is especially true of small populations (either >geographically or socially isolated). Even if you go out of your >way not to mate with a relative, but you live in what has been a >small population for many generations, your mate will have _some_ >amount of relatedness to you. The number of avid genealogists is quite small, and in many societies people have no idea who they are related to beyond their great grandparents and their descendants. Even those societies that do keep track of ancestry usually keep track of one line only - direct patrilineal or matrilineal descent. So there are many fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh cousins who intermarry, and have no idea at all that they are related. Perhaps the increasing popularity of genealogy will make it possible for people to calculate an average of marriages to cousins at each generation. ============================================================ Steve Hayes, Editorial Department, University of South Africa P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa Internet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7106/20.1 steve.hayes@p1.f20.n7106.z5.fidonet.org From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 18 22:00:00 1995 Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Path: biosci!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!emba-news.uvm.edu!moose.uvm.edu!dkirscht From: dkirscht@moose.uvm.edu (David Kirschtel) Subject: Re: etymology of logistic equation Message-ID: <1995Jan19.010107.26975@emba.uvm.edu> Sender: news@emba.uvm.edu Organization: EMBA Computer Facility, University of Vermont X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <1995Jan17.110908.20564@cs.mun.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 01:01:07 GMT Lines: 34 Geoff Evans (evans@cs.mun.ca) wrote: >Does anybody know why "logistic" is a sensible name for the >differential equation dx/dt = ax(1-bx) ? G.E. Hutchinson in "An Introduction to Population Biology" gives an extensive history of the logistic equation and the personalities associated with its evolution. Verhulst was teaching mathematics at the Belgian E'cole Militaire at the time (1845) that he applied the term logistic to this pre-existing equation. More than likely he merely usurped the term from its military use and applied it to (human) populations in general. Given Verhulst's interests in politics and "social and demographic problems" it seems reasonable that he saw the analogy between the provisioning of troops within a military unit and the distribution of resources within a society. From GEH "... [Verhulst] assumed that the limiting effect of the environment did not come into play immediately and that in an unsettled country the initial expansion would be exponential." "He was fully aware that life at the upper limit would be a condition of misery and felt that only a controlled economy could cope with the social problems created by an equilibrium population." (pg 20) Just speculation on my part, though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Kirschtel | Dept. of Botany | What if the 'invisible hand' is Univ. of Vermont | Burlington, VT 05405-0086 | guided by myopic eyes. | tel 802.656.0429 | email dkirscht@moose.uvm.edu | From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 18 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!CS.Arizona.EDU!news.Arizona.EDU!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!lehua!usenet From: jhanson@ilhawaii.net (Jay Hanson) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Re: effects of overpopulation Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:47:47 GMT Organization: InterLink Hawaii Lines: 319 Message-ID: <3fkqtj$lar@lehua.ilhawaii.net> References: <910358s.14.2F1D3254@axe.acadiau.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: port34.ilhawaii.net Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.10 In article <910358s.14.2F1D3254@axe.acadiau.ca>, 910358s@axe.acadiau.ca says... This should to get you started: ..Economic Growth, Carrying Capacity, and the Environment .. ..by .. ..Kenneth Arrow, Bert Bolin, Robert Costanza, Partha Dasgupta, Carl ..Folke, Buzz Holling, BengtOwe Jansson, Simon Levin, KarlGoran Maler, ..Charles Perrings, and David Pimentel .. .. ..Kenneth Arrow is in the Department of Economics, Stanford University, ..Stanford, CA 94305, USA. Bert Bolin is in the Department of ..Meteorology, University of Stockholm, 106 91 Stockholm, Sweden. ..Robert Costanza in director of the Maryland International Institute ..for Ecological Economics, University of Maryland, Box 38, Solomons, ..MD 20688, USA. Partha Dasgupta is in the Faculty of Economics, ..Cambridge University, Cambridge CB3 9DD, UK. Carl Folke is in the ..Beijer International Institute of Ecological Economics, Royal Swedish ..Academy of Sciences, Box 5005, S-104 05 Stockholm, Sweden. Buzz ..Holling is in the Department of Zoology, University of Florida, ..Gainesville, FL 32611, Bengt-Owe Jansson is in the Department of ..Systems Ecology, University of Stockholm, 106 91 Stockholm, Sweden. ..Simon Levin is in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, ..Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544, USA. Karl-Goran Maler is ..director of the Beijer International Institute of Ecological ..Economics, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, Box 5005, S-104 05 ..Stockholm, Sweden. Charles Perrings is head of the Department of ..Environmental Economics and Environmental Management, University of ..York, Heslington Y01 55DD UK. David Pimentel is in the Department of ..Entomology, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853, USA. .. .. .. Current national and international economic policy usually ..ignores the environment, and when the environment is considered, it ..is often argued that economic growth and economic liberalization ..(including the liberalization of international trade) are, in some ..sense, 'good' for the environment. This has meant that economywide ..policy reforms designed to promote growth and liberalization have ..been encouraged with little regard to their environmental ..consequences. .. .. The relationship of economic growth and environmental quality and ..the issue of the "carrying capacity" of the environment for economic ..activity were discussed by a group of economists and ecologists at ..the second in a series of annual meetings sponsored by the Beijer ..International Institute of Ecological Economics. Its purpose was to ..get a sense both as to whether there exists any interdisciplinary ..consensus on these issues, and what could be said for the development ..of both economic and environmental policy. .. .. The first question concerned the driving forces behind ..environmental degradation and their connection with the process of ..economic growth. The second concerned the environmental ..sustainability of economic growth, and the relevance of the ..ecological concept of carrying capacity. The conclusions on each ..topic are summarized in turn. .. .. ..Economic growth, externalities and the environment .. .. The general proposition that economic growth is good for the ..environment has been justified by evidence that there exists an ..empirical relationship between per capita income and some measures of ..environmental quality, similar to the Kuznets relationship between ..income and income inequality ( ) . An example of this "inverted U" ..shaped relationship is shown in Figure 1. .. .. As income goes up, it has been shown for some types of pollution, ..that there is increasing environmental degradation up to a point, ..after which environmental quality improves. So far the relationship ..has been demonstrated only for selected air pollutants ( ), but it ..has often been conjectured that it applies for environmental quality ..generally. It is, however, important to be clear about the ..conclusions that can be drawn from these empirical results. They do ..indicate that economic growth may be associated with some forms of ..environmental improvement as income increases. But the existing ..evidence does not imply either that economic growth is sufficient to ..induce environmental improvement in general or that the environmental ..effects of growth may be ignored. .. ..Figure 1 about here .. .. First, the inverted U relationship between income and ..environmental quality may be valid for some environmental indicators ..but it has yet to be shown that it is true for environmental quality ..generally. For example, total per capita carbon emissions are ..reported to be an increasing function of income and solid waste in ..the U.S. has been rising at more than twice the rate of GDP growth ..over the last two decades ( ). Moreover, the inverted U relationship ..between income and environmental quality is unlikely to apply when ..there are stock feedback effects or significant externalities ( ). ..Resources with stock feedback effects are those for which the stock ..of the resource affects production, such as soil or forests. The ..kinds of air pollutants for which the inverted U relationship has ..been estimated do not have these strong stock feedback effects. In ..addition, the examples used in the empirical studies are of urban air ..pollutants where strong local effects allow local responses to be ..effective at least in the high income countries. Pollutants that ..have global rather than local effects (like CO2) that have yet to be ..adequately internalized seem to increase continuously with income. .. .. Second, more recent empirical studies ( ) of total country ..emissions rather than of urban concentrations have shown that ..although the inverted U relationship does still seem to hold for SOx, ..NOx, CO, and particulates, the turning points in the curves are at ..much higher income levels than previously estimated (closer to ..US$10,000 per capita rather than US$5,000 per capita). Most of the ..world's population therefore has a long way to go just to reach the ..turning points for emissions and unless concerted action is taken, ..global emissions of these air pollutants are still expected to rise ..into the foreseeable future. .. .. Third, the inverted U curve is the result of a partial analysis ..which ignores general equilibrium or whole system environmental ..impacts. For example, reductions in one pollutant may be made ..possible by increases in another pollutant, or by transfer of the ..pollution to other countries where their effects are not as fully ..internalized. .. .. The potential effects of trade liberalization are relevant here. ..If individual producers do not internalize environmental ..externalities, the effects of such liberalization can lead to ..worsening environmental impacts (but this is not always the case). ..The important thing to remember is that it is necessary to study each ..case by itself and build the institutions for adequate ..internalization of the environment. .. .. In an economy without structural change, continued economic ..growth will necessarily lead to increased environmental degradation. ..What the inverted U-curves are showing is that there are structural ..changes taking place. However, these structural changes are not at ..all automatic. They are very much a result of conscious ..institutional reforms, including environmental legislation and other ..methods to internalize environmental effects. Rather than calling for ..more growth to solve environmental problems, one should encourage ..adequate institutional reforms at all levels of economic development. .. .. Finally, the conventional measurement of economic growth - GNP - ..is far from adequate as a measure of true economic performance. We ..need a more comprehensive index that includes the flow of ..environmental services as well as the value of net changes in the ..stocks of natural capital. With such an index the potential conflicts ..between growth and the environment would be greatly diminished. .. .. ..Carrying Capacity and Ecosystem Resilience .. .. At the core of the problem of environmental externalities in ..growing economies is the absence of effective signals of the ..environmental effects of economic growth. But the question remains ..whether economic growth is environmentally sustainable even after the ..externality problem has been addressed. Are there limits to the ..overall scale of the economy or the "carrying capacity" of the planet ..for economic activity and human population? If ecosystem ..deterioration cannot be delinked from economic growth, then at some ..point economic growth will be stopped by the planet's limited capacity ..to absorb such deterioration. On the other hand, if pollution and ..ecosystem deterioration can be delinked from growth, then continual ..economic growth is possible, albeit with major changes in the ..composition and nature of that growth, shifting it much more toward ..resource conserving qualitative improvement (development) and away ..from resource consuming physical growth. The proposition that ..economic development is consistent with improving environmental ..quality implies that, at least to a certain extent, the latter is ..true. .. .. The simple version of the notion of carrying capacity comes out ..of the logistic equation for the growth of a single animal population ..in a limited, highly simplified environment. Carrying capacity in ..this simple form is of limited use for the complex issues described ..above. Actual carrying capacity in nature is not a fixed, static or ..simple relationship for animal populations nor for human ones. It ..is contingent on technology, the structure of production, ..consumption, preferences, and the everchanging state of the ..interactions between the physical and biotic environment. .. .. It is certainly the case that the capacity of the planet to ..support human life is limited for a given set of preferences, quality ..of life, and technology. This limit can be raised by lowering ..average quality of life or by changing technology and preferences so ..that production and consumption are less damaging to the environment ..( ). Given this, it is not useful to state a single number for human ..carrying capacity. Such a number would be meaningless because the ..consequences of both human innovation and of biological evolution are ..inherently unknowable. Nevertheless, a general index of the current .."scale" or intensity of the human economy in relation to that of the ..biosphere is still useful. For example, Vitousek et al. ( ) ..calculated the total net terrestrial primary production of the ..biosphere currently being appropriated for human consumption is ..around 40%. This number says nothing about carrying capacity but it ..does put the scale of the expanding human presence on the planet in ..perspective. .. .. A more useful and operational concept for environmental ..sustainability is that of ecosystem resilience ( ). Ecological ..economic systems are sustainable only if they are ecologically ..resilient. While ecological resilience may be difficult to measure ..and will probably vary from system to system, and from one kind of ..disturbance to another, some useful indicators and early warning ..signals may be possible. For example, the diversity of organisms or ..the heterogeneity of ecological functions have been suggested as ..signals of ecosystem resilience. But ultimately, the resilience of ..systems may only be tested by intelligently perturbing them and ..observing the response using what has been called "adaptive ..management" ( ). That approach essentially turns regional ..development policy and management into experiments where ..interventions at several scales are made to achieve understanding, to ..produce social or economic product and to identify options. .. .. The loss of ecosystem resilience is potentially important for ..different reasons. For one thing, it may be associated with sudden ..loss of biological productivity and so to a reduced capacity to ..support human life under any technology. For another, it may imply ..an irreversible change which not only imposes costs on present ..generations, but also reduces the options open to future ones. If ..there are significant irreversibilities, or effects are very ..expensive to reverse, the fact that future increases in current ..national income may be associated with a reduction in the level of ..emissions offers no protection against the consequences of ..environmental degradation. Effects that are in this category include ..soil erosion, depletion of ground water reservoirs, desertification ..and loss of biodiversity. .. .. In order to assure the sustainability of economic growth, it is ..important to assure the resilience of the ecological systems ..exploited by growing economies. In a static regime of fixed ..preferences and fixed technologies, and in a nonevolutionary ..environment, this might well imply restricting the level of economic ..activity to that allowed by the carrying capacity perceived for those ..systems. In an evolving system where the notion of carrying capacity ..is less helpful, the limits on the nature and scale of economic ..activity are less welldefined, but they are nevertheless real, and ..the problem for environmental policy is to ensure that they are ..respected. .. .. ..Conclusions .. .. Economic growth will not automatically resolve the problem of ..environmental degradation. Nor will it automatically be sustainable. ..The source of difficulty is that appropriate signals of environmental ..damage, including the loss of ecological resilience, do not typically ..occur incrementally but abruptly. Moreover, the signals that do ..exist are often not observed or are wrongly interpreted. This is due ..to ignorance about the dynamic effects of change in ecosystem ..variables (especially thresholds, buffering capacity, and loss of ..resilience) and to the existence of institutional impediments, such ..as the nonexistence of property rights. The development of ..appropriate institutions depends on our understanding of ecosystem ..dynamics and the maintenance of appropriate indicators of change. .. .. Better science is a precondition for improved management through ..institutional reform. But the key feature is that this science must ..recognize that ecosystems and economic systems are of inherently ..limited predictability. It is most important to determine what ..aspects of the system's performance are in principle predictable and ..to design signals, adaptive management systems, and instruments that ..probe, test, and respond to the unpredictable and changing properties ..of human and biological nature. The most limited capacity we have is ..our capacity to understand and predict the future. In the face of ..this fundamental uncertainty and unknowability, and the dramatic ..consequences for the entire species of guessing wrong, we should act ..in a precautionary way to maintain the variability and diversity that ..sustains ecosystem resilience and buffering capacity. .. .. To summarize, economic growth in itself is neither the problem ..nor the solution to dealing with the environment. It is neither a ..panacea for improving environmental quality nor does it have an ..inherently negative impact on the environment. What is important is ..the content of growth. It is better to concentrate on internalizing ..external environmental effects and protecting the resilience of ..ecological systems. The first will promote greater efficiency in the ..allocation of environmental resources at all income levels. The ..second will assure the sustainability of the economic system. Even ..low income countries can and should improve efficiency and hence ..welfare by internalizing environmental externalities and even high ..income countries can and should restrict consumption and production ..so as to protect the resilience of the natural systems on which they ..depend. .. .. ..References .. . Kuznets, S. 1955. Economic growth and income inequality. .. American Economic Review. 45:128. .. . Grossman, G. M. and A. B. Krueger. 1993. Environmental impacts of .. a North American free trade agreement. pp. 165177 in: P. Garber .. (ed). The U.S. Mexico free trade agreement. MIT press, Cambridge. .. . Schmidheiny, S. 1992. Changing course: a global business .. perspective on development and the environment. MIT Press, .. Cambridge. .. . Lopez, R. 1994. The environment as a factor of production: the .. effects of economic growth and trade liberalization. Journal of .. Environmental Economics and Management. 27: 163184. .. . Selden, T. M. and D. Song. 1994. Environmental quality and .. development: is there a Kuznets curve for air pollution emmissions? .. Journal of Environmental Economics and Management. 27: 147162 .. . Ehrlich, P. R. 1994. Ecological economics and the carrying .. capacity of Earth. pp. 3856 in: A. M. Jansson, M. Hammer, C. Folke, .. and R. Costanza (eds). Investing in natural capital: the ecological .. economics approach to sustainability. Island press, Washington DC. .. 504 pp. .. . Vitousek, P. M., P. R. Ehrlich, A. H. Ehrlich, and P. A. Matson. .. 1986.Human appropriation of the products of photosynthesis. .. BioScience 36:368373. .. . Holling, C. S. 1973. Resilience and stability of ecological .. systems. Ann. Review of Ecology and systematics. 4: 123. .. . Holling, C. S. (ed). 1978. Adaptive environmental assessment and .. management. Wiley, London. Walters, C.J. 1986. Adaptive Management .. of Renewable Resources. Macmillan, N.Y. Lee, K. 1993. Compass and .. the Gyroscope. Island Press, Washington .. ..10. This is a report of the Second Asko Meeting, August 31 Sept. 2, ..1994, sponsored by the Beijer International Institute of Ecological ..Economics, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, Box 50005, S10405 ..Stockholm, Sweden. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 18 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!biosci!not-for-mail From: jan@dryad.labmed.umn.edu (Jan Marie Lundgren) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio,bionet.software Subject: Stochastic Simulation Using SIMEX (FREE software) Date: 18 Jan 1995 18:05:02 -0800 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Lines: 75 Sender: biohelp@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net Xref: biosci bionet.population-bio:1044 bionet.software:10691 This is to announce the release of SIMEX version 3.0 beta. SIMEX is a set of C++ classes, along with a few Bourne shell and Tcl/Tk scripts. The goal of SIMEX is to provide a framework for building discrete event simulation models, with an emphasis on models of large biological populations. SIMEX is the current incarnation of a project that began two decades ago with a model of influenza epidemiology. Since then versions of the software have been used to model coronary heart disease, HIV spread through social networks, and family pedigrees with genetic diseases. SIMEX is based on a process-oriented world view and is therefore akin to ModSim and Sim_Plus_Plus. SIMEX is known to run on a SparcStation with g++ 2.6.0. When configured without the optional support for light weight threads and Tcl/Tk, it contains only platform independent C++ code and should work on any system with a C++ compiler with good support for templates. The shell scripts are useful for creating program stubs, but could be ignored for use on non-Unix platforms. SIMEX was developed at the National Micropopulation Simulation Resource and is freely available and supported. However, our funding depends on knowing our user base so please contact us if you find the software useful and acknowledge our grant number in any publications arising from the use of the software. This is a beta release and all feedback is welcome. This project was funded by NIH P41-RR01632 More information can be obtained from http://www.nmsr.labmed.umn.edu The software itself can be obtained from ftp://ftp.nmsr.labmed.umn.edu You may also wish to contact the following staff Jan Marie Lundgren (User Contact) jan@simvax.labmed.umn.edu Qing Zhuo (Collaborations Coordinator) zhuo@simvax.labmed.umn.edu Michael Altmann (Development Director) michael@simvax.labmed.umn.edu SIMEX provides classes for the following aspects of modeling: Event scheduling and process modeling At the core of SIMEX is an event scheduler that uses a bucket scheme (a.k.a. the calendar algorithm) for fast event management. On top of this are built a number of types of events. The most useful of these is a state transition diagram, for which a user specifies the durations in states and the transitions among states. Each state is implemented by the user as a C++ method. There are also classes for light weight processes, repeatedly performing a function, and for synchronization. Simulation structure Since most simulation programs have a similar flow of control, a base class is provided from which a user derives and specializes a class for a particular model. Monitoring statistics The hardest part about micropopulation models is assembling macropopulation information. A suite of classes lets you easily find the number of individuals that have a certain set of attributes. Generic data structures Because we wanted SIMEX to be able to stand alone, we have reinvented the wheel for a few of the standard data structures. User interface A class is provided that lets you easily add a user interface to your model. The interface is fairly simple, but it does let you specify which parameters should be modifiable at run time. If Tcl/Tk is installed, a graphical interface can also be generated. Random numbers The random number generators are based on Marsaglia, Ananthanarayanan & Paul, 1973. In addition to the usual distributions, classes are provided for general discrete distributions. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 18 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!spectre.prin.edu!usenet From: *@spectre.prin.edu (**) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: UN Population Conference Date: 19 Jan 1995 18:19:50 GMT Organization: Principia Lines: 5 Message-ID: <3fmag6$mvm@spectre.prin.edu> Reply-To: jmh8868@prin.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: miclab12.prin.edu X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.5 I am currently working on a paper on the recent UN Population & Development Conference in Cairo, Egypt. I need to know who represented the US delegation. I would like to contact the delegates to find out what action the US has or will be taking to implement the Programme of Action. Please respond. From owner-population-bio@net.bio.net Wed Jan 18 22:00:00 1995 Path: biosci!VM1.NODAK.EDU!ASHWORTH From: ASHWORTH@VM1.NODAK.EDU (ALLAN) Newsgroups: bionet.population-bio Subject: Medora meeting ad Date: 19 Jan 1995 06:31:57 -0800 Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Lines: 63 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Distribution: world Message-ID: <199501191431.GAA29984@net.bio.net> Reply-To: GENES ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- MOLECULAR ECOLOGY AND CONSERVATION BIOLOGY Dates: Thursday, May 18 (noon) - Saturday, May 20, 1995 Place: MEDORA, NORTH DAKOTA Goals: - explore the interface between molecular population genetics and ecology at a variety of spatial and temporal scales - examine the implications of this interface for conservation biology and the preservation of biodiversity Format: The meeting will feature presentations by well-known biologists including, John Avise (University of Georgia), Peter Broussard (University of Nevada, Reno), Terry Erwin (Smithsonian Institution), Robert Fleischer, (Smithsonian Institution), Lewis Oring (University of Nevada, Reno), and Patricia Parker (The Ohio State University). A poster session for all participants will run continuously between the presentations. A major objective of the meeting is to stimulate research ideas that are broadly related to the area of conservation biology. Posters by students are especially invited. Field trips to the Badlands are being arranged for Saturday, May 20. Planning: Medora is an attractive small town (population 112) nestled in the Badlands of western North Dakota at the entrance of the Theodore Roosevelt National Park. The town is easily reached by Interstate 94. Participants arriving by air will be picked up at Bismarck airport and driven to Medora about two hours west. Bismarck is serviced by Northwest, Frontier, and United Airlines. The meeting will be limited to 150 participants. Information about registration, hotel costs, meal arrangements will be sent on request. To help with the planning, please return the following information by Feb. 15 to: Mrs. Bernadette McNeil, The Medora Meeting Population Change and Genetic Diversity Focus Group Stevens Hall, North Dakota State University Fargo, ND 58105-5517 1. Definitely plan to attend 4. Name: 2. May attend 5. Address: 3. Plan to present a poster 6. Phone:__________; Fax:__________; Email: __________ For further information contact Mrs Bernadette McNeil at: Phone: (701) 231- 7593 (afternoons only CST) Fax: (701) 231-7149 Email: mcneil@plains.nodak.edu Hosts: Population Change and Genetic Diversity