Today's Forests Lack Color

Todd M. Bolton tmbolton at
Wed Dec 17 21:37:11 EST 1997

Paul Morgan wrote:
> >
> >Todd M. Bolton <tmbolton at> wrote in article
> ><3491FB04.6C7 at>...
> >> Paul Morgan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > dennis g garcia wrote in message <348ECD37.76BAA92F at>...
> > > >
> >> > >If the agency is succeed in the future, we much secure the support of
> >> > >all those that use or may use the forests in the future.
> >> >
> >> > Nonsense.  Name one other gubmint agency that has secured the support
> >of all
> >> > those that use or may use their services or things under their
> >jurisdiction.
> >> > This is a smokescreen to justify funneling taypayer's money towards pet
> >> > projects to manipulate the behaviour of those you consider less
> >enlightened.
> >> > (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here - the real reasons may be
> >> > less, um, charitable.)
> >>
> >> Actually, you are being an insuating insulting asshole, and, I would
> >> guess, quite aware of it.
> Oh well.  I call 'em as I see 'em and I was responding to a post from
> someone who was playing the race card in an attempt to justify a pet social
> engineering project.
Mr. Fiske says I am profane.  I say that is the response due someone,
Mr. Morgan, who calls someone else, Mr. Garcia, a liar without having
any evidence of untruth.

You may consider it a pet social engineering project, I say that 20% of
the population pays taxes and deserves serivces for their bucks.  If
this 20% is pricipally concentrated in urban areas and unaware or unable
to reach NF resources, then developing programs to educate them about
the presence of rural areas and develop accessible regions should be
part of the responsible organizations job.

> >>
> >> Many urban residents DO NOT know that they are partial owners of the
> >> national forests or wildlife refuges.
> Possibly but irrelevant.
Lack of knowledge is one reason there are few urban blacks in the
forests, therefore it is totally relevant to the educational program
sugested in Mr. Garcia's post.

> >>  I will point out that the
> >> military services have all gone into recruiting balances in a large
> >> way.

> >>Police departments frequently search for candidates to produce a
> >> mirror image of the population they serve.  If all the rangers and/or
> >> users are white then those populations will remain white.
> Are you really saying that non-whites will refuse to work, camp, or hike
> among white rangers and campers?  One of the true ironies of modern politics
> is that those who pretend to speak for minorities often have the lowest
> opinion of them.  If anybody has a problem getting into a NF or any
> qualified person into the USFS, there there is a problem and it ought to be
> fixed real quick.  If a minority choses to not enter a NF or the USFS
> because the people there don't look like them, I ain't going to loose sleep
> over it.  No guts, no glory.

I suggest you spend a little time outside of the whitest state in the
nation.  Racism is alive and well in the good old us of a.  There is a
very real preponderence of evidence showing that it is still unwise for
people of color to wander around in rural areas.  Not only is it
psycologically uncomfortable, as a white boy who goes to a 90% black
school I recognize that, but it often results in insults and dangerous
situations.  Real experience has taught many  people to stay out of
"white zones".  

I will tell you of the following episode I heard of that happened
yesterday in a suburb near Washington.  The local SWCD was having it's
Christmas party at the house of one of the secretarys.  A single white
woman.  On of the NRCS guys in the office stopped by between field
appointments to drop off some food.  This guy is 6'2" 220 and black.  5
minutes after he left, after being there for 2 minutes, one of the
secretary's neighbors was knocking on her door to "make sure she was
allright".  What?  "Well there was a big black man here and I wanted to
make sure you were okay!"

Now, if that type of response was common in your life, would you be
likely to go to a NF where 98% of the people are another color?

> >> > Dennis has backed off somewhat on his original post, but I think it
> >needs
> >> > pointing out the following quote from the original:
> >> >
> >> > "All such communities ask is to be included in the people we serve."
> >> >
> >> > The implication here, of course, is that somebody or something is
> >> > such communities from being served.  Is there any evidence that
> >anything
> >> > other than their own preferences is preventing them from using the
> >forest?
> >> >

Read the story above.  Perhaps there isn't anything other than
preference.  Or perhaps it is wisdom.  

> >>
> >> The something that IS preventing minorty use of National lands is
> >> ignorance.  Ignorance of their existance for one thing.  A large part
> >> this ignorance is a cultural thing, but that is related to color.
> Now are they looking for the information and can't find it or are they not
> looking for the information?

Looking for what information?  If you don't know about computers you
aren't going to be looking for an idiots book on DOS!  Part of the
program was to educate the people that the resource is there. 

> >> To
> >> educate inner city youth, who are principally poor and black, that there
> >> are forests out there that they may wander through withut having to pay
> >> the $26 daily fee for entry to Six Flags is hardly and example of "da
> >> gubmint" manipulating the people.
> But this is not about education.  The problem was defined as, "Today's
> Forests Lack Color", with the proposed solution being to throw money and
> programs at the inner city apparently until the woods are colorful enough.

One part of the problem you are disputing is that the reason color is
not in the forests is because the inner city doesn't know they are

> I am not disagreeing with the FS educating people.  It is in their charter
> and I have said so several times.  I am disagreeing with the definition of
> the problem.  If the problem is defined wrong, your metrics for measuring
> the success of the solution are wrong and away go the tax dollars down
> another rathole.
> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.  If the problem
> is defined by the horse not drinking, 

Part of the problem is the howrse doesn't know the trough is there.  But
there is also the problem of the water tasting foul.  If the water
tastes like iron perhaps it needs to be regalvinized so that it reflects

>  We will never be a colorblind society if we keep classifying people by
> color!

Whether you, and other good conservatives, want to believe it or not,
the truth is that this country is nowhere near colorblind.  The first
thing people think is "My tribe?" or "Enemy tribe?"  Watch the security
gaurd, black or white, next time you are in a mall with black shoppers. 
Until that woman in Occoquan Virginia accepts that not all, nor even a
majority of, black men are criminals affirmative action of some type is
needed.  The only way she will learn that message is through first hand
experience.  And, actually, she probably won't ever learn it.  You call
it social engineering and a waste of tax dollars, perhaps it is "social
engineering" but I am happy to have my taxes spent on teaching people
that the forests are there AND that differences don't mean danger.

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