WAFC Forest Focus - November 18, 1997

Joseph Zorzin redoak at forestmeister.com
Wed Nov 19 08:01:46 EST 1997

Don Baccus wrote:
> In article <34729B7C.1178 at forestmeister.com>,
> Joseph Zorzin  <redoak at forestmeister.com> wrote:
> >To Steve Holmer, and others who post forestry related stuff in
> >environmental newsgroups- PAY ATTENTION- I have suggested several times
> >in the various environmental newsgroups to crosspost forestry related
> >messages to the 2 only forestry newsgroups on planet Earth,
> >bionet.agroforestry and alt.forestry.
> You're one of the very few people in Usenet land who encourages more,
> rather than less, cross-posting.

OK, some asshole said that it isn't cool to crosspost. Fuck that.
Crossposting serves a purpose. (excuse my French)

> These WAFC bulletins are just that - bulletins.  They're not calls for
> debate.  Since you know they're posted over here in talk.environment,
> why not read them over here?

Why shouldn't the enviros try reaching out to the foresters who they
obviously despise? Other than you I never seen any other serious
environmentalists post anything to our 2 forestry groups. I've started
crossposting to both sides of the fence and that's how you started
showing up in these forestry groups because I did it with the Sierra
Club group. We need more crossposting not less.

> >If you're not looking for an
> >online dialog with REAL FORESTERS, then you look CLOSED MINDED and
> Various groups within the conservation community, at least out here
> in Oregon, not only talk to REAL FORESTERS in person, but in some
> cases provide employment.
> >Give the online forestry community a chance to comment.
> What's to comment about?  Maybe the onlline forestry community should
> begin monitoring the Congressional scene and publish its own online
> bulletin on forest-related actions.

What's to comment about? Foresters have more impact on the environment
than any other conservation type professional. Enviros love to talk to
politicians but not to the people working in the woods because they are
looked down on foresters as low class laborers without PHD's from Ivy
League schools in environmental sciences. Maybe not you, but others do

> >Since
> >the forestry online community is so small, it is the ELITE of the
> >profession and their opinions should be heard.
> The online forestry community is only elite in that it is self-selected.
> I suspect that many fine foresters simply choose not to partake in the
> newsgroups.  Those who do may simply be bored, not "elite".

Going online shows an advanced skill and an interest to communicate with
others around the world. It is indeed a behaviour worthy of calling
ourselves elite. Those who are the so called leaders of forestry still
believe in the 19th century version of top down leadership, not the
modern form of leadership based on interactive "facilitating" and flat
hierarchies. The so called leaders in the bureaucraces and ivory towers
are USELESS as far as I can see. They haven't the balls to show up here
online, they'd rather lead via their annual meetings where they can hide
behind their expensive suits with their fancy titles. They're BUMS as
far as I'm concerned. The online communinities in every profession are
IN FACT the true leadership, and this applies to you too. You put up a
good fight wherever I see your posts, in many newsgoups. And I agree
with you most of the time. <G>

> >Dialog is the way to solve problems.
> At least out here in Oregon, the conservation community has been "dialoging"
> with various players for decades.  I myself can trace the roots of my own
> involvement to 1972.  That's a quarter century.
> Besides, we know that the timber industry ignores professional foresters as
> often as it listens to them, and that Congressional action often flies
> in the face of what professional foresters claim is best (such as the
> Salvage Logging rider, which was condemned by most foresters out here and
> most especially those working for the USFS).

Then the timber industry needs to show it's cowardly and ignorant face
here too and get with the dialog. I'm as big a critic of the profession
as you could ever be, probably more so and I'm as much of an
environmentalist as you too, having been a member of many of the same
groups as you for just as long.

> >Just posting and vanishing is what bureaucracies do.
> >Some of us are ACTUALLY on your side. Not all foresters are land rapers.
> Why does the fact that WAFC chooses to practice good netiquette by posting
> their bulletin to one group, rather than cross-posting (note that "newbie"
> guidelines ask people NOT to cross-post), imply that they think all foresters
> are land rapers?

Crossposting is bad only if not used intelligently, if used
intelligently what the hell is wrong with it? It's just like cc:ing to
someone when you mail them a letter. Not a dam thing wrong with it.

the environmentalist forestmeister

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