The debate

Don Staples dstaples at livingston.net
Sun Nov 23 18:35:56 EST 1997


BOBNDWOODS wrote:
> 
> In article <347783E0.2692 at livingston.net>, Don Staples
> <dstaples at livingston.net> writes:
> 
> >Right now in Texas, pimp prices are around $250 per thousand Doyle, bid sales
> >around $500 per thousand Doyle.  I make my living by helping shear the sheep,
> >not skinning him.
> 
> Our stumpage price for top grade pine here is running around $403/MBF Scrib.
> (about $266 Doyle?) but we don't buy pine on Doyle.  Bid sales do make more
> because it is rare the buyer can make a profit on a bid sale....too much
> competition for the wood.  The guy who buys a bid sale usually made the biggest
> mistake.  But, they are great for the landowner.  The only place I can beat the
> industry procurement types is on sales with a good mix of products.  They just
> are not as interested in wood they can't use in their mill.  You have to get
> some negotiated sales to keep the balance sheet in the black.  $250 Doyle may
> be a fair price if you look at logging and trucking costs, and a fair profit.
> At my price our company makes about $18.50/MBF.  A consultant will make
> $26.60/MBF, no?  We probably have a bit more overhead than most consultants I
> know.  At $500/MBF I would be loosing $215.50/MBF.  Now, if that's your idea of
> a shearing there wouldn't be much of a sheep left.  Bid sales do not accurately
> reflect the timber market as one of my former employers' (a consulting
> powerhouse in South Georgia) newsletter would have it.  They are inflated by
> the method of sale which gives each buyer one shot at buying wood in a highly
> competative market.  He who makes the biggest mistake wins the job.  Of course,
> the consultant who doesn't do this for his client is a fool.  But don't believe
> that you are getting a "fair" price for the timber.  If they all sold like that
> the price of lumber would go through the roof.
> 
Interesting, there appears to be different forces at work in our
respective states.  I can sell to "my" loggers anythng for around
$480.00 per thousand stumpage, they make $160.00 per thousand hauled, I
make what every my percentage is for the sale (I dont have a flat rate,
but account for size of sale, my cost, nature of sales material, etc.) 
Bid sales are running to $550.00 on recent sales, logger still making
his $160.00.  When a mill makes a bistake the value is some where around
$600 and up,  and yes, we do sell mistakes.  And, if I made $18.50/mbf
on average on all my sales I would be very happy.  Doesn't always work
out that way.  All my sale are selectively marked, except when my
clients wants a clear cut for what ever reason I cannot talk him out of,
like going to plantation management.  Consequently in my 30 years I have
cut some land owners as many as 6 times, my idea of shearing.  

By the way, I chuckle every time I see your powerhouse in Georgia
newsletter.  I know some foresters out of touch with reality, but none
that play the green sheet game like them.

By the way, gate wood in Texas is now $78/ton, $624.00 thousand, Doyle. 
Don Staples
UIN 4653335

My Ego Stroke:  http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/



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