DEBATE OF '98- responsibilities of forest land owners

Don Baccus dhogaza at
Thu Apr 30 07:34:39 EST 1998

In article <6i8sv8$atq$1 at>,  <dwheeler at> wrote:

>I'm concerned about the description of "Western Oregon." Many nso are located
>in the Siskyous, a relatively high, dry side of "Western Oregon, if by that
>appellation we stipulate "west of the Cascade Mountains."

Yes, I'm aware of that, but note that Johnsgard's recap of Forsman's work
states EXPLICITLY that it was done in "wet, coniferous forests" which sounds
a lot more like "stereotypical" western Oregon forests rather than the
Siskyous.  The use of the word "wet" seems pretty intentional, i.e. to differentiate
from the drier southern westside forests.

>> Some folks have a place somewhat near Oxbow Park, on the Sandy, and have
>> flying squirrels which come to feeders.  They let Portland Audubon bring folks
>> out at night to watch 'em sometimes.  Being nocturnal, they are hard to see.

>There are a few older trees near Oxbow.


>A very distinct possibility. When I first entered the stand I scarred a
>medium-sized barn owl from a roost during the daytime. I presume it flew in
>the generaly direction that owl carcass was later found. Since most raptors
>are extremely territorial, possibly that accounts for the carcass found two
>weeks later.

A barred owl ought to be able to fend off a barn owl quite well, so who
knows.  There are tons of great horned owls in mixed farmland/woodland
areas like you find around La Center...

I meant to ask this in my previous post: did you report the band to the
Bird Banding Lab, in Laurel MD?  The address is imprinted on the band.

I ask because many researchers contact the finder to get details on when and
where a banded bird was found, its condition (not always dead), if dead
any clues as to how it got dead, etc.  The researcher would know the species,
age, where banded, when banded data and most will share.

Friends and I found a dead white pelican once that we ourselves could tell
was 17-18+ years old, as the band had the address of the banding lab before
it moved to its current location that many years before.  USF&W hands out
bands to researchers each year, and leftovers from the previous years are
used by most people before dipping into the new strings, so the aging was
a pretty safe bet.  We didn't get any info back from the bander, after
18 or so years not only the bird but the bander may've died of old age!
Or at least retired...

>> The Johnsgard summary indicates wood rats as being important elsewhere, as
>> opposed to Forsman's westside study (I know for a fact that Forsman worked
>> in western Oregon, I just don't know where within western Oregon).  Wood
>> rats aren't unknown west of the cascades, in fact they're very common in
>> redwood second growth and are the major prey item of nso living in such
>> habitat.

>I remain unconvinced.

I don't have Johnsgard with me at the moment so don't recall if wood rat
were one of his "other 20 species" or not.  I do recall that Johngard
mentions wood rat in regard to the Rockies.

If you can show that Forsman's totally out to lunch, of course you can
probably restore logging in wet coniferous oldgrowth since his research
was, after all, the launching point for all of this stuff.  

I know Maser doesn't think Forsman's out to lunch, or at least didn't
when he was our keynoter just about the time the shit hit the fan in the
late 80s.  


- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza at>
  Nature photos, on-line guides, at

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