OT: Nostradamus on Bush

David Gossman dgossman at gcisolutions.com
Wed Jan 10 20:56:07 EST 2001

"Scott Nudds" <af329 at freenet.hamilton.on.ca> wrote in message
news:939gs8$5uj$1 at mohawk.hwcn.org...
> : Scott Nudds <af329 at freenet.hamilton.on.ca> wrote in message
> : news:938bsb$o7r$5 at mohawk.hwcn.org...
> : > David Gossman (dgossman at gcisolutions.com) wrote:
> : > : Actually Nudds, that you can not see that your posts proved nothing
> : > : regarding what I said simply demonstrates the serious state of self
> : delusion
> : > : that you continue to find yourself in. Get help soon Nudds.
> : >
> : >   Gossman once again proves himself incapable of logical argument.  He
> : > resorts to his typical pattern of ignorant denial and personal
> David Gossman (dgossman at gcisolutions.com) wrote:
> : Actaully, Nudds, I gave you a chance to point out your logic and it is
> : who has now resorted to repeating your personal attacks rather than
> : the topic - typical Nudds "honesty".
>   Where is the personal attack Gossman?  Your inability to argue logically
> has simply been exposed.  It hardly matters if you find the truth
> insulting.  The truth is the truth no matter how you try to continually
> lie about it.
We understand the special Nudds version of "truth" - just like your
"honesty". Quite amusing to watch.
> : >   Once again I will illustrate his murderous undertone of his
> : > conservative ideology...
> Gossman barks:
> : Either that or you will illustrate your need to maintain your state of
> : delusion.
>   Denial of reality is a way of life for Libertarians like Gossman.
Yet when challenged to reply to real questions Nudds refuses. Who I am and
my background is publicly available. That is reality. Why are you hiding
from yours Nudds? What are you really doing to help the environment? Would
you use deadly force to protect your child or spouse? Your refusal to
provide straight answers to these typse of questions rather clearly
ilustrate that the reality is that you are a hypocrite. Get help soon Nudds.

> : > : > Gossman Jabbers:
> : > : > : Nudds knows that correlation is not causation.
> : > : >
> : > : >   But apparently Gossman doesn't.  For it is not I who has
> : to
> : > : > argue that the cause of lowered murder rates is a higher gun
> : > : > rate, it is gun grubbers like Gossman and the NRA.
> : > : >
> : > : >   What a shame the evidence is against him.
> : > : >
> : > : >   No doubt he will follow up with more fabrications and lies as he
> : > : > typically does.   Perhaps he will simply engage in denial -
> : common
> : > : > tactic among extremist conservatives like Gossman.
> : >
> : > Gossman jabbers:
> : > : Actaully the studies that I am referring to compared demographically
> : similar
> : > : states over the same time period where one state inacted concealed
> : > : laws and the other did not.
> : >
> : >   Gossman holds up dishonest NRA statistics while ignoring honest CDC
> : > statistis that once again prove him to be a liar.
> Gossman barks:
> : The statisitcs were not developed by the NRA. But keep digging yourself
> : deeper Nudds.
>   Oh, we all know they were. If not directly then through their purchase
> from some conservative disinformation organization like the CEI or the
> Cato Institute.
>   Birds of a feather lie together.
You did, you dug yourself even deeper. I am impressed. The stats were
developed by an academician. You are an even bigger fool than I thought to
debate this issue so vigorously and not be aware of the facts. Quite funny
really. PS Run a search for John Lott at the University of Chicago if you
want to read the paper. I have seen it posted in a number of locations on
the web.
> : > Gossman Jabbers:
> : > : The crime rates can then be compared without any other factors
> : > : up the data.
> : >
> : >  Indeed lets compare murder rates.
> Gossman yammers:
> : Which has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing, a comparison
> : US states that have legalized concealed carry vs those that have not.
>   The comparison is quite valid.  The American cities have murder rates
> that are consistantly many times larger than similar sized cities in first
> world socialist states like Canada.
>   The question remains Gossman. - The question you perpetually refuse to
> answer - is what is the aspect of U.S. society that makes America such a
> murderous and uncivilized country compared to the rest of the socialist
> first world nations?

What aspect of the US led us to rebel and Canada to stay British? What
aspect of America led us to save the rest of the world from tyranny half way
through the last century? What aspect of America led American citizens to
send personal firearms to the Brits at the beginning of World War II because
the Brits had already managed to disarm themselves? What has led the US down
the path of fighting a war against drugs that results in gang warfare in our
inner cities? Your inability to answer your own questions suggests a level
of ignorance far beyond what I expected from you Nudds.
>   Are you afraid to answer the question Gossman?  Do you fear that the
> answer will simply confirm your pubicly stated claim that you have the
> right and even the moral obligation to murder your fellow countrymen
> should they even do so little as to simply threaten what you - often
> incorrectly - proclaim are your "rights"?

As a hypocrite who refuses to provide a straight answer to the question of
whether or not you would use deadly force to protect your spouse and child
you simply label yourself a hypocite each time you ask the question and make
such false accusations.
>   Clearly you must fear the answer if you have for so may years refused to
> answer the question.

Your refusal to engage and discuss the issue would be more than adequate
reason - who wants to discuss such things with a hypocrite. That you can't
recognize a straight answer to your question simply because it is answered
with another question suggests that gross ignorance may also be playing a
role in your difficulties.
>   How sad it is that rational thought so clearly indicates that it is your
> own conservative ideology that is the reason for the high murder rate that
> you so cowardly fear.

What do I "cowardly fear"? A high murder rate? Why would I fear the high
murder rate in locations that I don't live? You are getting down right
silly, Nudds.
>   For someone who is regularly seen commenting on "unintended
> consequences" you seem blissfully ignorant of such consequences when their
> are the result of your own extremist libertarian ideology.

And just what consequences are you talking about?
>   That's why your perpetual display of public ignorance and dishonesty is
> so entertaining.

Please Nudds, you are looking in a mirror again. We understand the need to
do that when your ego so badly needs inflating but you are getting confused
by doing it while you post.
> Gossman blathers:
> : To bad you are that dense - or is it "honesty".
>   Oh, with me, it's always honesty.  Sadly, with you, it's quite the
> opposite.  How shameful.
Glad to see you admit that you have a special form of "honesty". To bad you
must practice so much self deception that you don't understand what that
> : > Murder rate/100K comparison of U.S. and Canadian cities of equal size
> : > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> : > Stats Can/FBI figures (1992)
> : >
> : > Canada                 United States
> : > -------------------    --------------------
> : > St. Johns       0.6    Seattle         11.0
> : > Ottawa-Hull     1.4    Boston          12.7
> : > Winnipeg        2.0    Denver          19.3
> : > Toronto         2.3    Philadelphia    26.5
> : > Halifax         2.5    New York City   27.0
> : > Montreal        3.3    Los Angeles     30.0
> : > Vancouver       3.7    Miami           34.2
> : > Edmonton        3.8    Dallas          37.0
> : > Calgary         4.6    Detroit         57.0
> : > Thunder Bay     5.6    Washington      75.2
> Gossman blathers:
> : Nudds, we know that Canada has a lower murder rate. That you are unaware
> : refuse to look at the cultural differences that produce that result is
> : only thing you demonstrate with his post.
>   Why are we first world socialists more civilized than Capitalists in
> America Gossman?

You mean you don't understand?

>  What is it about capitalist America in your view that
> makes American's have a need to murder each other in such large numbers?

You mean you don't understand?
>   Given your publicly stated demand to be able to murder your fellow
> Americans, you must know what drives yourself Gossman.

That is nothing I have ever said. Why do you feel a need to lie about me
Nudds? Does my philosophy of personal freedom and liberty threaten you that
much? Just who are you afraid of Nudds?

>  Do you have enough
> self awareness to tell us what that motivation is?  Or are you more like a
> dog who reacts but doesn't really know why?

I know what it means to be free. You know what it means to be led around by
your little socialist doggy collar. It is no surprise that I don't
appreciate the feeling of security that gives you. It is surprising that you
don't want to be free - yet there are many examples throughout history of
people willing to give up freedom for security - to bad it is a false
security provided by a government that will only take more and more while
giving less and less. That is also a lesson of history that many refuse to
listen to. You join a large number of people who prefer to be led around on
a leash. The US, has to a large extent bred that out of our people via the
mechanisms that populated this country. I doubt that you will understand
that yet again your question has been answered.
> : > : >   On several occasions I have asked Gossman to tell me what aspect
> : > : > American life makes more murderous and less civilized than the
rest of
> : the
> : > : > first world.
> : > : >
> : > : >   To date he has been unable to produce a sentient response.
> : >
> : > Gossman jabbers:
> : > : That you have been unable to understand is the issue.
>   Yes, once again Gossman is asked, and once again Gossman fails to
> respond with substance.  He falls back on his old pattern of evasion and
> insult.
Please, Nudds, I would never presume to take over territory that you have so
thoroughly dominated.
> : >   Quite laughable coming from Gossman the lying Libertarian who has
> : > repeatedly demonstrated his need to continuously redefine the english
> : > language to support his extremist conservative ideology, even to the
> : > of promoting the murder of citizens who simply "threaten" what he
> : > proclaims - often incorrectly - what are his rights.
> Gossman barks:
> : Ah yes - now we have the change the topic and launch a personal attack
> : he can't respond on topic style response from Nudds - typical.
>   And again Gossman can foster no argument against the facts.  All he can
> do is whine about how the facts are somehow a personal insult.

Your self delusion regarding even what you claim to be facts is certainly
>   Honest individuals never claim that facts are insults.  Those who do
> make such claims are simply demonstrating either the depth of their
> ignorance, or the depth of their dishonesty.
Or the depth of th dishonesty of those making such false claims. Clearly you
exceed everyone's expectations in that regard.
> : >   Gosman isn't smart enough to realize that guns are available in
> : > places because they are purchased in convenient locations where he and
> : > murderous NRA brethren have made guns plentyful and easy to purchase.
> Gossman yammers:
> : Nudds is unaware just how easy it is to make a gun - banning their
> : nation wide would be like spitting in the wind but worse, since only
> : the criminal element would have th guns. Why does Nudds want to disarm
> : abiding citizens so that the criminal element can prey on them?
>   Gossman continues with his failed and long discredited argument.

Sorry you are having so much difficulty facing reality. Get help soon Nudds.

> Perhaps next week he will argue that all forms of explosive should be
> legalized since when explosives are illegal, then only criminals will
> be able to blow up their fellow citizens.

Poor Nudds is ignorant of the fact that you can not make illegal knowledge
and that is all it takes to make explosives and guns. Tyical Nudds logic -
take a vote and change the laws of phyics - is that what you will tell us
>   As to the ease with which a gun can be made, the issue is not relevant
> for the very same reason the issue of making explosives and poisons is not
> an issue.

Sure it is, except that explosives and poisons are a bit hard to use for
self defense. You want to ban the means of self defense. Who are you
planning on assaulting when you have eliminated the threat to yourself if
you do so? Or perhaps you just get a cheap thrill out of pushing for gun
bans so that you can read about elderly couples assaulted in their homes
with no means to defend themselves?
>   No, Gossman's complaint is not based on rational thinking.  It is based
> on fear, cowardice and psychopathic self absorption.  The classic
> motivation of all Liberatairians.
Your labeling my position in that way simply demonstrates the weakness of
your own argument and your hypocrisy. Thank you for your support. Get help
soon Nudds.
> : >   Gossman and the NRA rely on the socially destructive fact that hate
> : > breeds hate.  This is not surprising as Gossman perpetually
> : > his immoral, anti-social ideology.
> Gossman barks:
> : Still more name calling and slander because that is all you have inside
> : to dish out. Get help soon Nudds. Your obsession is starting to show.
>   And for the 3rd time, Gossman finds himself unable to produce a rational
> argument and as a result can do nothing but lie about how facts are
> insults... Blah, Blah.. Blah...  Ignorance, deceit.  Classic Gossman.
There is no need to produce a rational argument with your lies. All I need
do is point them out. Seems to get you real upset - that is why it is so fun
to watch. Keep posting Nudds.
> : >   Gossman and the NRA need to maintain primitive culture based on the
> : > threat of death in order to keep crime rates and gun sales as high as
> : > possible.
> Gossman writes:
> : I need to do that? Why, Nudds? Your lack of logic is astounding for
> : who claims to be intelligent.
>   Apparently you have some need to threaten to murder others.

Not at all. What figment of your imagination led you to that?

>  I don't
> know it's origin.  But it clearly derrives in large part from the
> psycopathic self interest you have repeatedly demonstrated as illustrated
> through your various statements promoting the murder of your fellow
> Americans.
Poor Nudds continues his practice of self delusion by lying about others -
typical hypocrite Nudds.
> : >   Meanwhile here in the civilized world, unlike the U.S. there is
> : > typically no need for the elderly to carry either hand guns or hat
pins in
> : > order to protect themselves from their neighbours.
> Gossman Jabbers:
> : We are not talking about protecting them from their neighbors. Are you
> : suggesting there are no murders, no stalkers, no home invasion, no
> : spouses in Canada, Nudds?
>  Indeed we are talking about your neighbours.  Your desire to carry a
> conceiled handgun is clearly for the purpose of killing your neighbours
> should they in your own words "threaten to violate your rights".

What would you do if your spouse of child were threatened? Would you use
deadly force to protect them from harm? Your continued posts in this
direction are simply demonstrating your hypocrisy. Give it up Nudds and get
help soon.
>  Why are you lying Gossman?

I am not. Why are you accusing me? Could it be your hypocrisy coming
>  There are indeed criminals here in Canada.  And here in Canada we know
> that we can deal with them without the threat of murderous retribution.

Really? What does that do for those who they murder? Why do you want to deny
them there right to self defense? Why are you condeming them to death?
>   Why is this lesson from first world socialist nations lost on cowardly
> american conservatives like yourself?

There is no lesson in denying people the right to defend themselves. That is
just sick.
>   Have you been receiving death threats?

No. Are you threatening? Do you think that those who are murdered receive
death threats in advance? Is that the basis for your defending your position
against the right to self defense?
>   I have received multiple death threats from many of your American
> conservative brothers.  Rather than purchas a gun like a coward, I
> laughed, just as I continue to laugh at you.
Nudds, you should laugh - you aren't worth the trouble. That will not stop
someone who is a real criminal should you or yours at some pont become a
victim. That you refuse to tell us what you would do under that circumstance
simply labels you a hypocrite.
> Gossman jabbers:
> : You and yours may have created an environment
> : where the victims are essentially helpless in your country. Luckily you
> : don't vote here.
>   Meanwhile your citizens are helpless from being shot on new years eve
> from random bullets falling from the sky, and helpless from being shot
> during school hours, helpless being shot at work, helpless being shot
> walking down the street, as well as helpless being shot by their own
> family members and helpless being shot during an unsuspected breakin.

Not entirely - but you would prefer to make that complete - that's sick -
why do you want to take away the right to self defense from law abiding
>   Here in the civilized socialist states, we'll take the lowered crime
> rate any day.
The fact is that violent crime drops when a state passes concealed carry
laws. Why do you want to deny the crime victims in your country the right to
self defense when you have no evidence that gun bans lower crime rates?
> : >   Gossman ends his ignorant blather with another dishonest denial
> : > by another personal insult.
> Gossman responds:
> : Hey Nudds, you are the one posting this nonsense. That you can't
> : it for what it is rather clearly suggests some serious mental
> : I think I am being rather generous in my evaluation to date.
> Gossman ends his ignorant blather with another dishonest denial followed
> by another personal insult.

If it were a personal insult rather than a logical observation based on your
posts you might have a point. You don't.
>   I thank him for providing me with yet another opportunity to expose him
> as the perpetual liar he has repeatedly proven to be.

To bad your "exposure" is backfiring and simply demonstrating your
> : > Gossman defends killing police officers
> : > ---------------------------------------
> : > "Gossman has the right to freedom of assembly and travel.  In
> : > world if someone were to restrict his right to travel, say by locking
> : > him in a jail, or restricting his right to assembly such as preventing
> : > him from attending a KKK rally, then the person or persons restricting
> : > these rights have according to him "no right to life"." - Scott Nudds
> : >
> : > Gossman's response:
> : > "Which is why if someone kidnaps you in order to accomplish these
> : > "may have deadly force used against them." - David Gossman -
> : > Sci.environment - March 25, 2000
And Nudds yet again proves his hypocrisy by posting quotes that he purposely
misconstrues while refusing to tell us if he would use deadly force to
prevent the kidnapping of his spouse of child.
|David Gossman  | Gossman Consulting, Inc. |
|President      | http://gcisolutions.com  |
|    The Business of Problem Solving       |
"If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science;
 it is opinion." - Lazarus Long aka Robert Heinlein

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