Thinning on the Angeles National Forest

Bob Weinberger bobsstuff at
Sat Feb 21 17:22:37 EST 2004

"Ian St. John" <istjohn at> wrote in message
news:xRPZb.24109$Cd6.991093 at

> As to the amount of rain and forest density, it is well discusssed in the
> relatively informed foresttrust publication. You should not make
> claims that the site is too dry for the meager population remaining.

Please re-read my post and point out where I made an unqualified statement
that the site was too dry.
Your use of the adjective "meager" only further illustrates your lack of
understanding of dry site forests.

>This is  the problem I have with the 'defense' of the logging campaign. It
is almost
> always unsupported by facts, and merely raises either the argument by
> authority, an ad-hominen campaign or a claim of hidden facts. The lack of
> honest debate but rather a campaign of harassement posts is what keeps
> thread running.

I suggest you look in the mirror to find the person who is most prone to use
those tactics.


> You seem to believe in fairies and mutant aliens, but then I am just
> how poorly I can read YOUR mind. You could do me the same courtesy, at
> so as not to look so stupid. If you do actually believe you know what I am
> thinkiing you should check yourself in the hospital.

I don't pretend to be able  to read your mind, but I can only come up with
three likely explanations for the types of statements you make about the
ecology of dry site forests:
1. You are basing those statements on an understanding of all forest ecology
formed by experience that is totally based on other types of forests.
2. You are intellectually dishonest.
3. You are just plain stupid.
Rather than follow the tactics you seem to apply, I chose explanation # 1.

> The timber industry will take the timber as well as the 135 million in
> timber subsidies while still crying poor. It is just the way things are
> there.

If that's a definate prediction, please loan me your crystal ball.

> > --
> >          Bob Weinberger
> > Forest to Timber Conversion Consulting

Though I am not a psychologist - nor even play one on TV, your playing such
games as you did immediately above, would seem to indicate a severe case of
arrested development.

> Lets face it. We know where your money comes from....
> >
> > With 40+ years of studying, working in, and learning from the forests of
> the
> > Western US,
> applied to finding ways to strip them clean.

Who was decrying ad hominum attacks, mind reading and looking stupid?
Yes, some of my clients  hire me to advise them on how to sustainably manage
their timberlands for long term economic gain. But a very large portion of
my income comes from advising landowners, who have no interest in - and
often an antipathy towards - managing for timber yield, in how to best
manage their properties for a whole host of non-economic benefits.  I am
quite successful at this because, rather than wearing blinders and focusing
on a particular ideology, I rely on of my understanding of forest ecology to
accomplish whatever biologically feasible and sustainable goals the
landowner might have.

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