My message with attachment did not get out through annelida, so I am resending it without the pdf. If anyone would like to receive it, please request it directly from me.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Lovell, Larry
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:55 PM
To: 'Joao Gil'; 'annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.edu'
Cc: 'paavo from benthicscience.com'
Subject: RE: [Annelida] Paradoneis
Dear João, Brian, and all,
I have been reading the discussion thread Brian started on Paradoneis with interest. As several here have pointed out, there is disagreement on generic classification of paraonids with notopodial modified setae by authors. In my paper (Lovell, 2002) I chose to separate Paradoneis from Cirrophorus following Hartley (1981); Castelli (1988); Mackie (1991); and Blake (1996) by considering the presence/absence of a median antenna as a character of generic level weighting, as in other families such as Spionidae.
I agree with João that there are probably many undescribed species of Paradoneis out there. In Southern California we report Paradoneis lyra, P. eliasoni, and a provisional species Paradoneis sp SD1 of Barwick 2000. I have attached a pdf of the Barwick's voucher sheet for his provisional. It does not seem to match any species in the Paradoneis table presented in Aguirrezabalaga &
Gil, 2009.
As João states, a phylogenetic study for this family would help resolve these issues and is badly needed. There is a benthic invertebrate DNA barcode initiative in Southern California being developed by Dr. Peter Miller at the Southern California Coastal Water Research Project. SCAMIT taxonomists at local POTWs are involved in collection and identifications to provide well documented properly identified specimens. Paraonids are well represented in our local POTW samples. This project might be able to contribute genetic material and information for a phylogenetic study. I encourage others to collect properly preserved and identified paraonids from other areas of the world that can be run for comparison. The broad reported distributions of species such as Aricidea (Acmira) catherinae, Aricidea (Acmira) simplex and Levinsenia gracilis is another area that would benefit from the availability of such genetic information.
In a related familial comment, I have finally seen a complete specimen of Aricidea (Aedicira) pacifica and can confirm that there are no modified neurosetae present in the far posterior setigers.
Worm regards,
Larry
Lawrence L. Lovell
Biologist II
Ocean Monitoring Research Group
County Sanitation Districts of Los Angeles
24501 S. Figueroa St.
Carson, CA 90745
(310) 830-2400 X-5613 office
(310) 952-1065 fax
llovell from lacsd.org <mailto:llovell from lacsd.org>
-----Original Message-----
From: annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu
[mailto:annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu]On Behalf Of Joao Gil
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:00 AM
To: annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.edu
Cc: paavo from benthicscience.com
Subject: RE: [Annelida] Paradoneis
Dear Brian and all,
Thanks for the interest in our paper. As already noted by Geoff, Paradoneis
eliasoni was described by Mackie (1991), in the Proceedings of the IPC
helded in Denmark. We just added a new record, for the Iberian coasts. In
the same paper it is possible to find a good redescription of Paradoneis
lyra, the type species of the genus. Personally, I agree with Mackie (1991)
in that P. lyra has a much more restricted distribution than the one
normally considered.
Moreover, we are checking the possibility that in the western Mediterranean
Sea there are as much as 3 different species being identified under
Paradoneis lyra (besides Paradoneis ilvana Castelli 1985, which we also
consider as a valid species). I can't imagine the number of valid species of
Paradoneis that are waiting to be described all over the world, but it
should be considerable.
In what concerns the validity of the synonymy of Cirrophorus with
Paradoneis, it depends on if you consider the presence or absence of a
median antenna as a valid character in order to separate two genera of
Paraonidae. We did, but until some solid phylogenetic study can be made on
this matter, I don't see any problem in considering the two genera as
synonymous, and describe new species without median antenna under
Cirrophorus, as long as the new species is valid, well described, and
justified.
For each genus or subgenus with a new taxon in our paper (Aguirrezabalaga &
Gil, 2009), we decided to add a table with the main morphological characters
for all the hitherto described species, as we believe that this kind of
tables are good and much needed taxonomic tools. We also thought that this
was the best way to access a close identification of the specimen you have
under your microscope, but as always in these cases, a more detailed
confirmation is always desirable and/or required. For this reason we
included one or two citations for each species, where more detailed
descriptions can be found.
We did our best in order to avoid errors in the tables, which were revised
several (many) times. However, and following the unwritten rule that there
will always remain some undetected errors, no matter how many times you
revise the manuscript or the proofs, we apologize for any possible mistakes.
Finally, the paper is open access in Scientia Marina, at the following link
(it is the first paper of the issue):
http://www.icm.csic.es/scimar/index.php/secId/6/IdNum/25/
This is all, I hope it can help in some way. I just would like to thank to
Daniel Martin for his help during the revision of the manuscript (due to one
of those mistakes I told you about, he is missing at the acknowlegments),
and to everybody at Scientia Marina, for their patience! And to you, if you
have read this until the end! ;)
Any questions, don't hesitate in writing to us. We will happy to help!
All the best,
João
João Gil
CEAB-CSIC
Carrer d'accés a la Cala Sant Francesc, 14
E-17300 BLANES (GIRONA)
SPAIN
Email: gil from ceab.csic.es
Telef. (34) 972.33.61.01
Fax: (34) 972.33.78.06
-----Mensaje original-----
De: annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu
[mailto:annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu] En nombre de Brian Paavo
Enviado el: jueves, 10 de septiembre de 2009 4:13
Para: annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.edu
Asunto: [Annelida] Paradoneis
Aloha,
I seem to be confused. A Paradoneis is very important to some work in a
southeast New Zealand intertidal inlet. I would normally have called it
Paradoneis lyra (Southern 1914). I just read a paper (citation below)
with new descriptions including a new Paradoneis eliasoni. While the
paper is well illustrated it seems to be missing some discussion of the
characters needed to resolve some splits (or I may be missing some
convention). Paradoneis eliasoni appears to be described from 2
anterior fragments and an 'almost complete' worm. I don't have a copy
of the original Paradoneis lyra description. According to Table 3 in
the publication, P. eliasoni has acicular neurochaetae in the far
posterior segments. I grabbed some of our 2000+ specimens and they all
have them. The table includes a strike rather than a question mark (no
mention?) of these for P. lyra (Southern 1914). Both type localities
are from the other side of the planet, P. lyra capensis (Day 1955) is
from South Africa, but the pre-branchial notopodial lobes are present in
our specimens, but Day may not have had specimens this large. Any thoughts?
My diagnosis of our beast (made before seeing the paper): Conical
prostomium slightly longer than wide, slit nuchal organs, branchiae
start on chaetiger 4 and continue for 11-12 chaetigers [a little shorter
than segment width), no eyes, no median antenna/scar, small notopodial
lobes present on pre-branchial chaetigers larger in branchial chaetiger
smaller in postbranchial chaetigers then very proporitionally large in
extreme posterior, earliest observed forked chaetae on chaetiger 3 only
one observed in each notopodium, posterior chaetigers with stout
acicular chaetae (one each neuropodium) which is weakly hooked, 3
pygidial cirri. [I didn't note the capillary numbers]
Aguirrezabalaga, F. and Gil, J. (2009) Paraonidae (Polychaeta) from
the Capbreton Canyon (Bay of Biscay, NE Atlantic) with the description
of eight new species. Scientia Marina 73(4): 631-666.
Cheers,
Brian
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brian Paavo, PhD
Benthic Science Limited
1 Porterfield Street
Macandrew Bay
Dunedin 9014
New Zealand
P/F +64-3-476-1712
M +64-021-189-3459
http://www.benthicscience.com
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