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FW: [Annelida] RE: Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912

Geoff Read via annelida%40net.bio.net (by Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz)
Tue Nov 11 22:33:58 EST 2014


Rebroadcast. I think this message didn't reach the list.

G

-----Original Message-----
From: Elena Kupriyanova [mailto:Elena.Kupriyanova from austmus.gov.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014 12:37 p.m.
To: 'Reuscher, Michael'
Cc: Hove, H.A. ten (Harry.tenHove from naturalis.nl); Geoff Read; annelida from net.bio.net
Subject: RE: [Annelida] RE: Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912

Hi Michael,

Some large adult serpulid specimens tend to lack chaetae that juvenile of the same species have. I vaguely remember that some large Apomatus/Protula are reported to lack all thoracic uncini altogether (Harry will correct me if I am mistaken). And some Spirobranchus spp. have collar chaetae as juveniles, but not as adults. So I wonder whether these large animals who live long (and happy) lives and just grow bald as they grow old. And yes, usually there is a nice (linear) correlation between the size of a  serpulid and some meristic characters (see my 1998 paper on Serpula columbiana), so I am not surprised that a large specimen would have more brachial radioles. This is not to say that A. timsii is definitely a synonym of A. geniculata, but these are just my thoughts on the topic.

Cheers,
lena

Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
Research Scientist
Marine Invertebrates

Associate Editor, 
Records of the Australian Museum

Australian Museum Research Institute 
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-----Original Message-----
From: annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu [mailto:annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu] On Behalf Of Reuscher, Michael
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014 3:19 AM
To: annelida from net.bio.net
Subject: RE: [Annelida] RE: Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912

Thank you all for your help! Thank you for your paper, Rolando!

Here some thoughts:
A. timsii was described with uncini starting in chaetiger 3. This is quite unusual as most Apomatus species have uncini from chaetiger 2. Unfortunately, I have not found a single description of A. geniculata that specifically mentions in which chaetiger the uncini commence. But if they are present in chaetiger 2, it may be significant difference.

Secondly, A. geniculata was described with 18 pairs of radioles, A. timsii with 40 pairs. I wonder if this is only a thing of small vs. big specimens (27 mm vs. 80 mm in the original descriptions) or if this quite large difference is not an interspecific one?

Also, I doubt that Hartman (1969) examined type specimens of A. timsii. Therefore, I think it is dangerous to base the synonymy of both species on non-type specimens deposited at LACM-AHF. Perhaps A. timsii should be considered valid until its type specimens have been examined?

wormly,
Michael

PS: Is the correct species name Apomatus geniculatus or A. geniculata?

________________________________
Michael Reuscher, Ph.D.
Harte Research Institute for Gulf of Mexico Studies Texas A&M University - Corpus Christi
6300 Ocean Drive, Unit 5869
Corpus Christi, Texas 78412-5869
U.S.A.
________________________________
From: Harry Hove, ten [harry.tenhove from naturalis.nl]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 9:06 AM
To: Rolando Bastida-Zavala
Cc: annelida from net.bio.net; Reuscher, Michael; Geoff Read <Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Annelida] RE: Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912

done!

2014-11-11 14:50 GMT+01:00 Rolando Bastida-Zavala <rolando from angel.umar.mx<mailto:rolando from angel.umar.mx>>:
Dear Geoff and Harry,

In separate message I sent the paper of 2008 to Michel.

Maybe, would be useful to include the mention of my paper as "source of synonymy" in WoRMS.

Un abrazo!

Rolando


At 03:21 a.m. 11/11/2014, Harry Hove, ten wrote:
Michael,

Rolando B-Z includes (2008: 12) *Apomatus timsii* in the list of synonyms of *A. geniculata,* and discusses the reasons why. In 2009 we (tH & K) followed his thoughts, and I do not see reasons now to change my thoughts.

wormly,

Harry

2014-11-11 8:08 GMT+01:00 Geoff Read <Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz<mailto:Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz>>:

> Bastida-Zavala, J.R., 2008.- Serpulids (Annelida: Polychaeta) from the 
> Eastern Pacific, including a brief mention of Hawaiian serpulids. 
> Zootaxa
> 1722: 1-61, 13 figs, 1 appendix.
>
> The above doesn't claim a new synonymy but discusses Hartman's 
> specimens of A. geniculata and A. timsii in the LACM.
> It's one of  the linked literature items for A. geniculatus, a WoRMS 
> record created by none other than Harry ten Hove, most knowledgeable 
> Serpulidae editor.
>
> Geoff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu<mailto:annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu> [mailto:
> annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu<mailto:annelida-bounces from oat.bio.i
> ndiana.edu>] On Behalf Of Reuscher, Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2014 8:25 a.m.
> To: Annelida from net.bio.net<mailto:Annelida from net.bio.net>
> Subject: [Annelida] Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am trying to locate the publication, in which the serpulid species 
> Apomatus timsii Pixell, 1912 has been synonymized.
>
> According to the WoRMS database, it is a subjective junior synonym of A.
> geniculatus (Moore & Bush, 1904). I found the species mentioned as a 
> junior synonym of A. geniculatus in ten Hove & Kupriyanova (2009). 
> However, the synonymy is not discussed in this paper, but merely appears in a list.
> Therefore, I assume that it is not the original source of the synonymy.
>
> I would be grateful for any hint!
>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________
> Michael Reuscher, Ph.D.
> Harte Research Institute for Gulf of Mexico Studies Texas A&M 
> University - Corpus Christi
> 6300 Ocean Drive, Unit 5869
> Corpus Christi, Texas 78412-5869
> U.S.A.
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Dr. ROLANDO BASTIDA-ZAVALA
Investigador Nacional I
Laboratorio de Sistemática de Invertebrados Marinos (LABSIM) Ciudad Universitaria Universidad del Mar Campus Puerto Angel Puerto Angel, Oaxaca C.P. 70902, MEXICO

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T 071-5687657, M

Darwinweg 2 - 2333 CR Leiden
E Harry.tenHove from naturalis.nl<mailto:Harry.tenHove from naturalis.nl> I , www.naturalis.nl<http://www.naturalis.nl/>



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