Alexei, Colin, Harry, and others,
Thanks to all for the comments on these fossil worm tubes. I am adding Chuck Powell to the email list so he can see any further relies on Annelida to my post. He is the originator of the question and has more pics and information he can share. Please make sure to include him in any further discussion.
Thanks,
Larry
Larry Lovell, President
Southern California Association of Marine Invertebrate Taxonomists
Visit our website: www.scamit.org<http://www.scamit.org/>
(310) 830-2400 X-5613 (work)
(760) 803-1608 (mobile)
“What’s the use in their having names,” the Gnat said, “if they won’t answer to them?”
“No use to them,” said Alice: “but it’s useful to the people who name them, I suppose.”
- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
From: Алексей Ипполитов [mailto:ippolitov.ap from gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:45 AM
To: Colin Hermans
Cc: Harry Hove, ten; Annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.edu; Lovell, Larry; WEnright from sandiego.gov
Subject: Re: [Annelida] worm tubes
yes, they are very similar to Ficopomatus as well. However, Ficopomatus is met within estuarine environments only, while Temblor Formation, where the object was found, seems to be mostly marine. This is the reason why I excluded genus Ficopomatus from most probable determinations.
Finally, the best way is that offered by Harry ten Hove - to examine visually part of the sample, not the photo).
Respect,
Alexei
2014-09-19 21:12 GMT+04:00 Colin Hermans <hermans from rockisland.com<mailto:hermans from rockisland.com>>:
Dear All: The Fossils look very much like the tubes of what are now called Ficopomatus enigmaticus that cluster on pilings and other hard surfaces in the turning basin in the Petaluma River, in Petaluma, California. The locals there called them "corals" because their clusters of calcarious tubes are reminiscent of coral.
In Vertebrate Embryology a Laboratory Manual by Richard M. Eakin, University of California Press 1947, 1971, pp. 44-49, "Fertilization and Cleavage in a Tube Worm," is a description of how these worms make excellent material for students to directly observe fertilization and cleavage, without having to resort to computers. (Wow, direct observation of the real world!!!)
These worms, then known as Mercierella enigmatica, could be ordered from Dahl Biological Supply (http://www.wysk.com/index/california/berkeley/4ynjxlq/dahl-biological-supply-inc/profile) or collected from the boats and floats in the brackish water at the foot of University Street in Berkeley and kept in seawater in the Life Sciences Building.
Students at Sonoma State University and I made similar collections from the Petaluma river. This species is known for its wide range of salinity tolerance. We were able to verify that at Sonoma State.
My first thought is to question the age of these fossils in this reservoir that like Berkeley is in the "East Bay." How "in" the East Bay is it or was it?
Best wishes, Colin Hermans
===========================
On Sep 19, 2014, at 3:34 AM, "Harry Hove, ten" <harry.tenhove from naturalis.nl<mailto:harry.tenhove from naturalis.nl>> wrote:
> Dear Larry,
>> There might be a few more candidate names for the tube cluster as shown on
> the photograph than suggested by Alexei (but he has a lot more experience
> with fossils than I have). Hydroides is not the only genus that can be mass
> forming like this, see ten Hove & van den Hurk 1993) but it is hardly
> possible to see details on the photograph. Any chance to send me a piece of
> the stuff? Alexei will be visiting me in Naturalis next month, so maybe we
> could have a short look together.
>> gr.
>> Harry ten Hove
>>> Op donderdag 18 september 2014 heeft Lovell, Larry <LLovell from lacsd.org<mailto:LLovell from lacsd.org>
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','LLovell from lacsd.org<mailto:LLovell from lacsd.org>');>> het volgende
> geschreven:
>>> Hello wormers,
>>>> Any thoughts on the makers of these fossils in the photos? Serpulidae is
>> highly likely, but anything more specific to suggest? Scroll down for
>> specific info on the collecting locality and timeframe. We have Salmacina
>> tribranchiata colonies locally, that are much smaller in size.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Larry
>>>> Larry Lovell, President
>> Southern California Association of Marine Invertebrate Taxonomists
>> Visit our website: www.scamit.org<http://www.scamit.org><http://www.scamit.org/>
>> (310) 830-2400 X-5613 (work)
>> (760) 803-1608<tel:%28760%29%20803-1608> (mobile)
>>>> “What’s the use in their having names,” the Gnat said, “if they won’t
>> answer to them?”
>>>> “No use to them,” said Alice: “but it’s useful to the people who name
>> them, I suppose.”
>>>>>> - Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
>>>>>>>> From: General_Topics [mailto:
>>general_topics-bounces from discussion.list.scamit.org<mailto:general_topics-bounces from discussion.list.scamit.org>] On Behalf Of Enright,
>> Wendy
>> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:22 AM
>> To: general_topics from discussion.list.scamit.org<mailto:general_topics from discussion.list.scamit.org>
>> Cc: cpowell from usgs.gov<mailto:cpowell from usgs.gov>
>> Subject: [General_Topics] FW: worm tubes
>>>> Hello All!
>>>> I received this interesting photo today. Can anyone provide some
>> information? Both worms and paleontology are outside of my expertise!
>>>> Thanks so much!
>> Wendy
>>>> From: Powell, Charles [mailto:cpowell from usgs.gov<mailto:cpowell from usgs.gov>]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:03 AM
>> To: Enright, Wendy; james walker
>> Subject: worm tubes
>>>> Hi Wendy,
>>>> I was wondering if you or someone down there could help me. It has to do
>> with worms not mollusks and the only people I know working with worms are
>> there and at LACM.
>>>> I was out at Calaveras Reservoir in the east SF Bay area yesterday looking
>> at the fossil they've been collecting. One thing I was shown (by Jim
>> Walker the paleontologists out there) really interests me and Jim are the
>> domes of worm tubes (see attached). They run from about a quarter to half
>> meter across, the tubes in the lower portion seem to run perpendicular to
>> the outer layer. Also tubes in the outer layer have a rounded top. These
>> appear to be transported and laying on their side compared to bedding.
>> Have you ever seen or heard of anything like this? Its a new one on me and
>> I think it needs to be written up.
>>>> These worms are in middle Miocene rocks assigned to the "Temblor"
>> Formation.
>>>> Thanks for you help.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Chuck
>>>> --
>> Charles L. Powell, II
>> U.S. Geological Survey, MS 975
>> 345 Middlefield Road
>> Menlo Park, CA 94025
>>>> 1-650-329-4985
>>https://profile.usgs.gov/cpowell/>>>>> --
>> T 071-5687657, M
>> Darwinweg 2 - 2333 CR Leiden
> E Harry.tenHove from naturalis.nl<mailto:Harry.tenHove from naturalis.nl> I , www.naturalis.nl<http://www.naturalis.nl>
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Respect,
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