I just found another very interesting paper I was not aware of on that
topic:
https://academic.oup.com/sysbio/article/64/5/860/1685131
2018-05-31 12:25 GMT+02:00 Alejandro Martínez García <
amartinez.ull from gmail.com>:
> We could try and do something - but I think then we might have to find
> something new to add to Wägele's paper. One possibility could be to try and
> work on a table similar Wägele's Table 1, and use it to show if it has been
> any improvement after and before 2011. Once we get the data, it is more or
> less easy to test.
>> Another way to make it a bit different could be taking an "annelid
> perspective" - we have several annelids that are model organisms that are
> not mentioned in Wägele's paper and it could be interesting what would
> happen with the citations of these authors if the original description
> papers would have been cited along with them.
>> We could also try and exploit Karen's point (citing the original source
> makes it easier to find the original reference) - Then, we might also want
> to discuss a bit the role of biodiversity databases, such as Worms,
> providing access to all this information. I do not see it as clear,
> however....
>> ...just some of my quick thoughts, a bit for fun... What are yours?
> Ale
>> PS: By the way, I checked and Wägele's paper has only 69 citations sin
> 2011 - So not really many, which somehow indicates that perhaps not many
> people is aware of it - or that not so many researchers really cared.
>> 2018-05-31 11:56 GMT+02:00 Daniel Martin <dani from ceab.csic.es>:
>>> It seems that all arguments we are bringing here on this topic were
>> already exposed in the paper mentioned by Alejandro six years ago, while
>> certainly this has not resulted in changes in editorial policies or, which
>> would be a basic step, in the behaviour of people writing scientific papers.
>>>> So, its our turn?
>>>> Dani
>>>>>> ——
>>>> Dr. Daniel Martin
>> Scientific Researcher
>>>> Centre d’Estudis Avançats de Blanes (CEAB - CSIC)
>>>> - Carrer d'accès a la Cala Sant Francesc 14
>> - 17300 Blanes (Girona), Catalunya (Spain)
>> - Tel: (34) 972336101
>> - Mobile phone: (34) 636046003
>> - Fax: (34) 972337806
>> - WWW Institutional: http://www.ceab.csic.es>> - WWW Personal: http://www.ceab.csic.es/personal/daniel-martin-sintes/>>>> > El 31 maig 2018, a les 11:31, Alejandro Martínez García <
>>amartinez.ull from gmail.com> va escriure:
>> >
>> > I agree with Dani on the importance of citing the papers describing the
>> species along with the taxonomic authorities. Most of you might know it
>> already, but for those who does not, here is an interesting reference on
>> that regard:
>> >
>> > https://frontiersinzoology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.118>> 6/1742-9994-8-25 <https://frontiersinzoology.bi>> omedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1742-9994-8-25>
>> >
>> > I would also like to take advantage of my message to invite those of
>> you working with cave or anchialine species to the 4th Symposium of
>> Anchialine Ecosystems in Lanzarote: www.4isae.es <http://www.4isae.es/>.
>> Have you heard of it already?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Alejandro
>> >
>> > 2018-05-31 11:16 GMT+02:00 Daniel Martin <dani from ceab.csic.es <mailto:
>>dani from ceab.csic.es>>:
>> > I must say that i fully agree with Sergi’s comment. A species is a
>> scientific hypothesis as relevant as any ecological postulate. However, we
>> are certainly in disadvantage in terms of citations because species authors
>> are recurrently disregarded in terms of citations. This is particularly
>> true when we are talking about ecological works, but not only: yes, in
>> taxonomic papers too.
>> >
>> > In all my reviews, when it applies, I always advice the authors to
>> include the references of the species, but I must say that not all editors
>> agree with this proposal, and I am often seeing the paper I have reviewed
>> being published without what would be an appropriately complete list of
>> cited references.
>> >
>> > I am giving my full support to Sergi’s initiative, it is time to try to
>> move things. Maybe we may start by writing a letter clearly explaining the
>> situation, then try to get support from as much taxonomists as possible and
>> then address it to any forum where “our” species are inappropriately used.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Dani
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ——
>> >
>> > Dr. Daniel Martin
>> > Scientific Researcher
>> >
>> > Centre d’Estudis Avançats de Blanes (CEAB - CSIC)
>> >
>> > - Carrer d'accès a la Cala Sant Francesc 14
>> > - 17300 Blanes (Girona), Catalunya (Spain)
>> > - Tel: (34) 972336101
>> > - Mobile phone: (34) 636046003
>> > - Fax: (34) 972337806
>> > - WWW Institutional: http://www.ceab.csic.es <
>>http://www.ceab.csic.es/>
>> > - WWW Personal: http://www.ceab.csic.es/person>> al/daniel-martin-sintes/ <http://www.ceab.csic.es/perso>> nal/daniel-martin-sintes/>
>> >
>> > > El 31 maig 2018, a les 0:08, Sergio Taboada <sergiotab from gmail.com>> <mailto:sergiotab from gmail.com>> va escriure:
>> > >
>> > > Congratulations Geoff for the recognition! Very well deserved.
>> > >
>> > > I would like to take advantage on this email to share some thoughts
>> with
>> > > you that are quite related to WoRMS. These thoughts have probably been
>> > > raised in the past in this Annelida forum, but I would not like to
>> lose the
>> > > opportunity to do it now and probably *open a small debate around it*.
>> > >
>> > > Do you know how many citations a paper like the one by Folmer et al
>> (1994)
>> > > describing COI primers universally used for PCR amplification and
>> > > sequencing have? The answer is more than 9000. This paper provides a
>> very
>> > > useful information about the sequences of two primers that many of us
>> use
>> > > for our barcoding of phylogenetic analysis. But, is it more relevant
>> in
>> > > terms of citation on a paper than citing the paper that described a
>> species
>> > > reported in the same paper? The answer for that is that they would be
>> at
>> > > least (in my opinion) equally relevant and both should be cited in
>> the text.
>> > >
>> > > Reality is quite different. Papers like the one by Folmer et al
>> (1994) are
>> > > *always* cited in scientific studies, *while papers describing
>> species are*
>> > > *rarely* included in the reference lists unless they are part of a
>> > > taxonomic study. It means that work done by us (when providing
>> essential
>> > > information about species in our taxonomic and systematic studies) is
>> quite
>> > > often disregarded and undervalued. We do probably are kind of
>> responsible
>> > > for this situation, because we tend to think that taxonomic/systematic
>> > > studies are not to be cited in, for example, ecological papers. In
>> this
>> > > kind of ecological studies, for instance, we tend to provide long
>> lists of
>> > > species that provide a great value for our studies but just consider
>> them
>> > > as 'simple' names and not as a source of scientific information
>> themselves.
>> > > Do the papers in which these names were described have less value
>> than the
>> > > paper by Folmer et al (1994)? The answer is *NO*. There is loads of
>> effort
>> > > and work behind all these names which should be valued.
>> > >
>> > > What can we do to fix this (unfair) situation? We are a very big and
>> active
>> > > community of researchers and there are several more communities as
>> ours
>> > > 'out' there. Most of us review papers and some are part of editorial
>> boards
>> > > in different scientific journals. I do not probably have a say as an
>> > > individual but if joining together (Annelida, Porifera etc etc etc)
>> we can
>> > > be a quite effective 'super-organism' able to have things changed.
>> > >
>> > > *There is a restriction of space in some of the journals: *Ok. Then
>> let's
>> > > add these references in a Supplementary Reference List.
>> > >
>> > > *Taxonomy matters* and if we want other people taking it/us seriously
>> we
>> > > need to start by giving it the value it deserves.
>> > >
>> > > All the best,
>> > > Sergi.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2018-05-28 11:25 GMT+01:00 Barbara Mikac <mikacbarbara from gmail.com>> <mailto:mikacbarbara from gmail.com>>:
>> > >
>> > >> Congratulations and thank you for your efforts, Geoff!
>> > >>
>> > >> Greetings,
>> > >> Barbara
>> > >>
>> > >> _____________
>> > >> Barbara Mikac
>> > >> Professor of Bology, microbiology and healthcare control
>> > >> Institute of Higher Education "Ettore Majorana"
>> > >> Technical and technological Institute - Healthcare biotechnologies
>> > >> Via Caselle 26
>> > >> 40068 San Lazzaro di Savena
>> > >> Bologna
>> > >> Italy
>> > >>
>> > >> On 22 May 2018 at 07:59, Simon, CA, Dr [csimon from sun.ac.za <mailto:
>>csimon from sun.ac.za>] <
>> > >> CSIMON from sun.ac.za <mailto:CSIMON from sun.ac.za>>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Hi Geoff
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I'd like to add on to all the other congratulations that have come
>> > >> through
>> > >>> these last few days. You and the other editors are doing an amazing
>> job
>> > >>> that has made all of our lives so much easier.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thank you very much
>> > >>> Carol
>> > >>>
>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>> > >>> From: annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu <mailto:
>>annelida-bounces from oat.bio.indiana.edu> <annelida-bounces from oat.bio.>> > >>> indiana.edu <http://indiana.edu/>> On Behalf Of Geoff Read
>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:18 AM
>> > >>> To: annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.edu <mailto:annelida from magpie.bio.in>> diana.edu>
>> > >>> Subject: RE: [Annelida] congratulations Geoff!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks Nancy,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> It’s great to get a response like that. The idea is that we put up
>> the
>> > >>> information and explanatory notes, and users can take it as they
>> wish,
>> > >>> disagree if they have reason to, and let us know if it is wrong,
>> but most
>> > >>> importantly usually only one person needs to do the time-consuming
>> > >> delving
>> > >>> into the history and sorting out the anomalies. And everyone,
>> including
>> > >>> the editors, benefit if the publications are stored at WoRMS or
>> linked
>> > >>> direct to the BHL online pages, and original descriptions can be
>> read at
>> > >> a
>> > >>> click away. There’s still a lot more to do, but we are making
>> progress.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I don’t do this alone, but with several current and past editors of
>> > >>> particular families, including Harry ten Hove who was there even
>> before
>> > >>> Kristian contributed his database, and is still there. I’d also
>> like to
>> > >>> make special mention of João Gil, who has made a major contribution
>> > >> across
>> > >>> a spectrum of families in the time since he joined in 2013, has got
>> very
>> > >>> skilled with working at WoRMS, and is great with finding and
>> linking the
>> > >>> literature. We could not keep up with the inflow without him.
>> Thanks
>> > >> João!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> For those that don’t know, on Twitter I am @WPolyDb posting for our
>> > >>> section of the WoRMS database, retweeting new lit, nice pics, and
>> keeping
>> > >>> to wormy topics.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Best wishes,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Geoff
>> > >>>
>> > >>> From: Nancy Maciolek [mailto:njmaciolek from gmail.com <mailto:
>>njmaciolek from gmail.com>]
>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2018 5:34 a.m.
>> > >>> To: Chris Glasby <chris.glasby from nt.gov.au <mailto:
>>chris.glasby from nt.gov.au>>
>> > >>> Cc: Geoff Read <Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz <mailto:
>>Geoffrey.Read from niwa.co.nz>>;
>> > >> annelida from magpie.bio.indiana.ed>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Annelida] congratulations Geoff!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I would like to congratulate Geoff on this award and also thank him
>> > >>> enthusiastically for all he has done to significantly upgrade the
>> WoRMS
>> > >>> database over the past several years. It is simply amazing to me
>> that we
>> > >>> now have links to so many publications embedded in the database, as
>> well
>> > >> as
>> > >>> history on some of the name changes, comments on same, and other
>> pieces
>> > >> of
>> > >>> information that in the "old days" might have been impossible to
>> ferret
>> > >> out
>> > >>> without a great deal of effort. A huge job, well done.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thank you, Geoff!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> best regards,
>> > >>> Nancy
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Nancy J. Maciolek
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 10:26 PM, Chris Glasby <
>>chris.glasby from nt.gov.au <mailto:chris.glasby from nt.gov.au><
>> > >>> mailto:chris.glasby from nt.gov.au <mailto:chris.glasby from nt.gov.au>>>
>> wrote:
>> > >>> Hats off to our World Polychaeta Database leader.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> WoRMS has just announced that Geoff has received an 'Achievement
>> Award'
>> > >> at
>> > >>> the 5th World Conference of Marine Biodiversity (Canada, Montreal,
>> 16
>> > >> May)
>> > >>> for the major and very detailed contributions he has made to WoRMS
>> in the
>> > >>> past years, and his input & constructive feedback during his time
>> on the
>> > >>> Steering Committee.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The announcement also acknowledged his work as the driving force
>> behind
>> > >>> The World Polychaeta Database (http://www.marinespecies.org/>> polychaeta <http://www.marinespecies.org/polychaeta>),
>> > >>> his efforts to create a more inclusive online AnnelidaBase (in
>> analogy
>> > >> with
>> > >>> MolluscaBase), and for communicating the good work of WoRMS
>> through
>> > >>> Twitter.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Great work Geoff!! I think I can say for all that we are all
>> massively
>> > >>> appreciative of the work you do to make our online annelid lives
>> easier.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Best, Chris
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> [http://cdn.sun.ac.za/100/ProductionFooter.jpg <
>>http://cdn.sun.ac.za/100/ProductionFooter.jpg>]<http://
>> > >>> www.sun.ac.za/english/Pages/Water-crisis.aspx <
>>http://www.sun.ac.za/english/Pages/Water-crisis.aspx>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The integrity and confidentiality of this email is governed by these
>> > >>> terms. Disclaimer<http://www.sun.ac.za/emaildisclaimer <
>>http://www.sun.ac.za/emaildisclaimer>>
>> > >>> Die integriteit en vertroulikheid van hierdie e-pos word deur die
>> > >> volgende
>> > >>> bepalings gereël. Vrywaringsklousule<http://www <http://www/>.
>> > >> sun.ac.za/emaildisclaimer <http://sun.ac.za/emaildisclaimer>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Sergi Taboada
>> > >
>> > > The Natural History Museum of London
>> > >
>> > > Life Sciences Dept., Invertebrates Division
>> > > DC1, 6th floor
>> > > Office 605
>> > >
>> > > Cromwell Road, SW7 5BD, London (UK)
>> > > Telephone: +44 (0) 20 7492 5433
>> > >
>> > > sergiotab from gmail.com <mailto:sergiotab from gmail.com>
>> > > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sergi_Taboada <
>>https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sergi_Taboada>>Sergi Taboada in
>> > > Researchgate <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sergi_Taboada <
>>https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sergi_Taboada>>
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
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