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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Regarding Colin Hermans intriguing idea:</div><div><br></div><div>Sea hares are known to ink - <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~huskertomkat/hare.html">http://home.earthlink.net/~huskertomkat/hare.html</a> - but are not known for their great vision. Definitely want to learn more about alciopid ink & eyes.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Eric</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; 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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; 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"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::</div><div></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; ">Eric Gonzales PhD</span></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Postdoc - Rokhsar Laboratory</div><div>University of California at Berkeley</div><div>Molecular and Cell Biology</div><div>543 Life Sciences Addition</div><div>Berkeley CA 94720</div><div>Phone <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>510 643 9944</div><div>Cell<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>415 601 4923 </div><div>Email <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a href="mailto:eegonzales@berkeley.edu">eegonzales@berkeley.edu</a></div><div>::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div><br><div><div>On Mar 3, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Colin Hermans wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Dear Mikhail and Geoff:<br><br>I think it is an outrageous coincidence that alciopids and cephalopods have evolved eyes that are so similar in structure right down to the ultrastructural level (Hermans, C.O. and R.M. Eakin (l974) Fine structure of the eyes of an alciopid polychaete, Vanadis tagensis. Zeit. Morph. Tiere. 79:245-267). Now on top of that, both groups have evolved inking. - Do alciopids really ink?<br><br>What other group of aquatic animals ink? Is their a connection between great vision, and the evolution of inking? Like the shedding of tails by certain lizards, inking must be of value to the prey of a visual predator. The complexity of the eyes of alciopids suggests that they may be visual predators. - but then why would they ink? It would just mess up their own vision. Maybe visual deception, as practiced by cephalopod, and perhaps, by alciopids, could be the link between inking in the two groups?<br><br>Just a thought, with best regards, Colin<br><br>On Mar 2, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Geoff Read wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Mikhail,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I didn't know of this ability. But as it is in Google's database you will have seen the 1975 reference below. I mention it for others as a starter point for any earlier references.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hamner, W.M.; Madin, L.P.; Alldredge, A.L.; Gilmer, R.W.; Hamner, P.P. (1975). Underwater observations of gelatinous zooplankton: sampling problems, feeding biology, and behavior. Limnology and Oceanography 20(6): 907-917. <a href="http://aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_20/issue_6/0907.pdf">http://aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_20/issue_6/0907.pdf</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">p.915 "several alciopid polychaetes that released reddish-brown streamers of pigment as they swam away"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tomopterid bioluminescence is apparently mentioned in Herring, P.J. 1987. Systematic distribution of bioluminescence in living organisms. J.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Biolum. Chemilum. 1 :147-163.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Geoff<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 3/03/2009 at 1:37 p.m., mikhail matz <<a href="mailto:matz@mail.utexas.edu">matz@mail.utexas.edu</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dear colleagues,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I am looking for references on inking in acyopids. This remarkable<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">phenomenon seems to be common knowledge among blue-water divers, but<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">proves to be surprisingly difficult to trace in the literature. I am<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">now writing a review about animal fluorescence, and want to see if<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">anybody described what I observed - fluorescent ink in some alcyopids<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(would look pale yellow in a collection jar in daylight). If not<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that, I would tremendously appreciate references to any kind of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">defensive inking in these cute worms.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">best,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Misha<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Mikhail V. Matz<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">University of Texas at Austin<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Integrative Biology Section<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1 University station C0930<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Austin, TX 78712<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">phone 512-992-8086 cell, 512-475-6424 lab<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">fax 512-471-3878<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">web <a href="http://www.bio.utexas.edu/research/matz_lab">http://www.bio.utexas.edu/research/matz_lab</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-- <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Geoff Read <<a href="mailto:g.read@niwa.co.nz">g.read@niwa.co.nz</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.annelida.net/">http://www.annelida.net/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncabb/">http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncabb/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> About NIWA <a href="http://www.niwa.co.nz/about">http://www.niwa.co.nz/about</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ***************************<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NIWA is the trading name of the National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research Ltd.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Annelida mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Post: <a href="mailto:Annelida@net.bio.net">Annelida@net.bio.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Help/archive: <a href="http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/annelida">http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/annelida</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Resources: <a href="http://www.annelida.net">http://www.annelida.net</a><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>Annelida mailing list<br>Post: <a href="mailto:Annelida@net.bio.net">Annelida@net.bio.net</a><br>Help/archive: <a href="http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/annelida">http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/annelida</a><br>Resources: <a href="http://www.annelida.net">http://www.annelida.net</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>
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