S. A. Modena samodena at
Mon Feb 1 21:28:21 EST 1993

Of general interest, I'm sure....
   --------Cut Here----------
Article: 173 of bionet.women-in-bio
>From: MCCAINKW at DUVM.BITNET (Kate McCain)
Newsgroups: bionet.women-in-bio
Subject: flame dousing
Message-ID: <9302020055.AA15451 at>
Date: 2 Feb 93 00:34:44 GMT
Distribution: bionet

Gosh Marivonne -- you must have gotten a LOT of personal mail.  Not mine--
since I felt we both understood each other's positions and concerns. I
too would like to see the list swing to a slightly different focus -- if one
is naturally forthcoming -- and be temporarily quiescent if one is not.

[I'm wating for the other shoe to drop.]

I would like to note -- at the risk of raised heat -- that some of my
_personal_ correspondents (not all of the same opinion, I might add) were
male.  Several expressed the opinion that, while they would like to participate
in a more general discussion, that they felt unwelcome -- in at least one
case because he had been thoroughly trashed (for apparent gender-attributed
sins) when expressing an opinion.

[Obviously that male poster didn't read the FAQ for women-in-bio.]

So let me offer a new (or retreaded?) topic -- which some of us who are old
enough will recall as a basic issue in the early days of the feminist
movement -- what IS the status of male participation on this list?  Are
are we secure enough to entertain divergent opinion from persons with a single
X chromosome -- and attribute inquiries, positions taken, etc as representative
of _personal_ opinion, experience, etc. recognizing that EACH of us has
both unique (personal) and shared (gender-based, racial/ethic group id based,
age-based, etc.) variance in our personal experiences that affect our
perspectives (what Kenneth Boulding called our "Images")?

[ I'm sure the answers are to be found somewhere is the FAQ for
women-in-bio or on WISENET.]

If we are "exclusive" then we eliminate ideas from the other part of the world
(and maybe a chance to educate, enlighten, or inform). Are we really
comfortable "preaching to the converted" or -- to argue the opposite as we did
in the olden days -- is it more important to build community than to enlarge

[This sounds so much like the mental train that Stalin's lavisher would use
on each Anniversary of the Great Wise One.  References supplied upon

Can we take _anyone's_ expression of interest at face value and not be so
impolite as to trash someone for personal traits -- recognizing that offering
an opinion means that trashing the _opinion_ is certainly an option? (Remember
the children's psychologist who told many of us to be sure and distinguish
between the person's _behavior_ and the _person_.)

[I like that: women look to child psycologists for adult guidance.]

Listservs are -- in general -- remarkably democratic institutions.  One can
"lurk" without participating and "hide" one's e-mail address so as to be
truly invisible.  I would hate to have _anyone_ feel they had to do so here.

[After all, this isn't Khomer Rouge Cambodia where one was shot for wearing

The standard statement at this point is to apologise if anyone felt a little
crisped. Quite frankly, that was NOT my intent. Perhaps I am escalating
to a level of "metadiscussion" that the majority feel is inappropriate or
uninteresting.  No problem. My data analyses just came out congruent and I
am at peace with the world.

[And they say that *men* blabber on!  :^)]

Kate McCain                          "die Gedankenexperimente sind frei"
College of Information Studies
Drexel University

mccainkw at
    -----Cut Here------

Well, I loved it. Juicey, if you ask me.
But I'll fax it off to it makes it onto one of his shows for a
wider audience than this to appreciate.

Steve   a.k.a. Prisoner #6
[Without a FAQ, my opinion is unofficial.]

P.S. Anything unsuitable for an (over-specialized) newgroup, ends up right 
in the overflow bucket...according to the BIO-SCI FAQ.  :^)
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena at                           | 
|                 samodena at                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)

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