German "social status" still offensive
mattweed at edith.Princeton.EDU
Wed Nov 3 13:33:39 EST 1993
In article <2b6rd5$lkc at lll-winken.llnl.gov> bjones at concannon.llnl.gov (Brian Jones) writes:
>In article <2b6h18$p8l at usenet.rpi.edu: peapud at aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Diane Hope Peapus) writes:
>:>> AT THE GERMAN CANCER RESEARCH CENTER (DKFZ), HEIDELBERG
>:>> fall within the German BAT IIa - Ib groups (cca DM 70-80 000 per annum
>:>> depending on experience and social status) [ ... ]
>:>First I apologize for insulting some people without any intention.
>:>In Germany the BAT system is quiet complicated, your salary depends
>:>not only on your age but also on your marital status and how many
>:>children you have etc. Unfortunately we chose the term "social status"
>:>without knowing that people might misunderstand it.
Yes, the term can be misunderstood, but since the original posting
dealt with jobs, it seems to me that the objections (if any),
should have been sent to the originator of the posting via Email rather
than blasted all over the net. If the originator felt
that the objections were reasonable (and most peopl
e do if they are stated reasonably), then they could have
been taken into account in a follow-up posting.
>:> Weiyun Chen
>: Unfortunately, your explanation is no less offensive than some of
>:the presumptions. People's salaries should be determined based on what
>:they do while they are in work. What they do in their spare time is their
>:own business and has no place in the salary calculation. Who's the German
>:BAT system to determine that it is more valid for a person to spend
>:20K/year to keep a child than to spend 20K/year to build and keep a sail
>:boat? Thus rewarding the child barer with additional salary and punishing
>:the sail boat builder with less? The choice of the word "social status" is
>:very appropriate based on your explanation of it's meaning, and the
>:objection to the meaning stands even stronger than the objection to the
>:choice of words. It's easy to forgive people for choosing an inappropriate
>:word in a translation. But the objection here is conceptual and not
Then I suggest you move to Germany and try to
forge a coalition for change. Currently all you do
is make yourself look like an unreasonable unthinking
ugly American, who assumes that our system is best.
>: It seems as though 4th Reich has become more subtle in their
>:imposition of behavior modification on the masses than it's predecessors
>:have been. So subtle that Weiyun Chen feels obligated to defend it.
Oh come on, grow up for once, it might do you some good.
>: I would appeal to the moderator of these news groups to deny job
>:posting privileges to the German Cancer Research Center (DKFZ), and other
>:employers who determine salary based on social status.
I certainly hope that the next request isn't made because the posting
comes from an institution which just happens to be in the
United States, because we don't offer socialized health care.
>: Diane H Peapus
>Get a life you stupid jerk, this is a job forum, not a forum for making
>ignorant racist comments about the way socialist government works. And
>this post it deliberately meant to be insulting because you deserve it.
I tend to agree, making comments just because you
don't have the vision to understand that the way *you*
live *may* not be best, seems quite self-centered,
and far more rude than any implied slights in the original
posting. We all suffer discrimination, for some reason or other,
and just because your objections come from a group which is currently
in the ascendancy in the PC thinking here in America, does not
make the discrimination which you see in the original posting any worse
than that which other people suffer.
>|------------------------ "History shows again and ------------------------|
>| DISCLAIM again how nature points Brian R. Jones |
>| THIS! out the folly of men" bjones at vsattui.llnl.gov |
>|------------------------ B.O.C. ------------------------|
"It may not be true, as Lincoln Supposed, that you can't fool all of the
people all of the time, but you can fool enough of them to rule a large
wcountry." Will and Areel Durant, _The Lessons of History_:1969.
mattweed at edith.princeton.edu MPA candidate Wilson school/95(609)-497-1974
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