Grad.Students (ab)use (fwd)

[Alexander Berezin]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:15:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alexander Berezin <berezin at mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA>
To: Ashok Grover <groverak at fhs.csu.mcmaster.ca>
Cc: biocan at net.bio.net
Subject: Re: Grad.Students (ab)use



On 6 Oct 1995, Ashok Grover wrote:

> I think you may have twisted the facts because you wanted to.
> I write all my own research proposals.
> I also help graduate students learn how to write proposals in their own 
> areas of research.
> 
> Frankly, I feel that if you spent half as much time thinking about 
> writing a successful grant as you do about all these twisted things, you 
> may actually succeed in getting one. Until, then it is sour grapes, I guess.
> 

(BEREZIN):

Firstly, if you bother to read the original message I don't report
any facts but sending a questionnair and consequently your 
mentioning of "twisting" is pointless.

Secondly, I do have a grant and consequently your mentionining of
sour grapes is baseless.

Thirdly, of 3 (private) responses recieved so far 2 ([former]
grad. students) confirm and condemn the practice and one 
(professor) approves it on (approximately) the same argument
as your do.

So, the score is so far tie.

Alex Berezin 

> 
> On 6 Oct 1995, Alexander Berezin wrote:
> 
> > 
> > GRADUATE STUDENTS AS GRANT PRPOPSAL WRITERS FOR 
> > THEIR BOSSES : HOW COMMON THIS PRACTICE IS ?
> > 
> > In a private e-exchange on the research funding 
> > theme a colleague has informed me of a practice 
> > when (some) professors use their graduate students 
> > in the capacity of grant proposals writers for 
> > themselves (the professors).
> > 
> > Specifically, example was given when a student was
> > requested to write grant proposal for the "boss"
> > as a part of his/her PhD comprehensive examinations.  
> > "Write a proposal in the style of NIH grant".
> > 
> > In another case student "would hardly finish one of 
> > the boss' grants and the boss give him/er another".  
> > 
> > My correspodent concludes: 
> > 
> > "It's generally accepted by most grad students that 
> > I've talked to that this is abuse, but I really don't 
> > know what it thought by the tenure professors".
> > 
> > As I (A.Berezin) am presently working with another
> > colleague on a paper/letter about PhD (over)production 
> > and grantsmanship, I will appreciate comments on the 
> > above issue form profsessors AND graduate students
> > (and, of course, all other who may have info).
> > 
> > Any ideas on how widespread this practice is ? 
> > 
> > What are the moral/ethical "justifiers" behind it, if 
> > any ?  [ Yes, one can say that "we have to train 
> > students how to write grants" ], etc.
> > 
> > Do you personally consider it as abuse or "okay" ?
> > 
> > Comments can be either posted of e-mailed to me
> > privatly - in the latter case, the confindentiallity
> > of respodees will be, of course, respected.
> > 
> > **********************************
> > Alexander A. Berezin, PhD
> > Department of Engineering Physics
> > McMaster University, Hamilton,
> > Ontario, Canada, L8S 4L7
> > tel. (905) 525-9140 ext. 24546
> > e-mail: BEREZIN at MCMASTER.CA
> > **********************************
> > 
> >      
> > 
> > 
> 
>