Simon Dobbs wrote:
>> Petr Kuzmic <pkuzmic at biokin.com> wrote:
>> > credibility of
> > the Internet with regard to student and other non-expert readers.
>> so someone's credibility is based upon a list of publications rather
> than what they have to say?
I did not say that. I said in my message:
"Chris Hillman had some interesting things to say in bionet.info-theory,
both about the Valev phenomenon, and in general about the credibility of
the Internet with regard to student and other non-expert readers."
As you can see, I did not specifically endorse or reject Chris's view, I
only called it "interesting", suggesting that it is something to talk
about. Your reference to elitism is therefore misplaced. I fully agree
that this is a complicated question, and I think I understand Chris's
point of view as well as yours.
> this is a forum for new ideas and discussion, not the thought police.
Agreed 100%. But still, why do you think that most elementary school
and high school teachers in my district (according to the local
newspapers) in the last couple of years grew cool to Internet in the
classroom? Among other things, they now seem to believe that the global
Internet contains 99% useless noise, or misinformation, and 1% useful
information, without any way for the students [or even most teachers] to
tell those two apart. I believe that Chris posted her message to
'bionet.info-theory' with that particular concern in mind.
> please - 'suffer the children', for 'out of the mouths of babes spring
> forth truths'
Simon, this is a very poetic image, and philosophically I agree with
it. I think there are only very few statements in human history as
powerful as those expressed in the Sermon on the Mount. However, there
is also the phenomenon of the "Internet crank", from whose mouth springs
forth nonsense. How do you propose to deal with that, in a science
group such as this?
We are not talking here about spirited and respectful differences of
opinion, which I personally always welcome. I think that in a
non-scientific group, talking about interpretations of history or art,
people can (and should) have different opinions. We also can have
opinions in science, about the meaning, purpose, or philosophy of
research, and similar grand questions, but you really can't have a "new
idea and discussion" about technicalities such as the statement "2 + 2 =
4" [unless you are in your own Universe], or about the following
statement:
> Subject: Catalysts, equilibrium.....
> Date: 28 Apr 1998 17:43:42 +0100
> From: Pentcho Valev <RUMYM at BGEARN.ACAD.BG>
> Newsgroups: bionet.metabolic-reg
>> We consider the reaction
>> A + E <-> X ; X + B <-> Y ; Y <-> E + C /1/
>[snip]
>> we finally obtain from /7/ and /8/
>> V = (k1)AE /9/
As much as the process of "knowledge production" [as the philosophers
and sociologists of science like to say] involves conflict between new
and old ideas, there is nothing "new" and there can be no "discussion"
about equation /9/, no 'truth from the mouth of the babes', just as
there can be no discussion about "2 + 2 = 4". Equation /9/ is simply
wrong, period, because Mr. Valev's logic is wrong, and he did not bother
to look up the proper procedure in any elementary textbook. So the
'babe's mouth' parable is not really applicable here, because there is
no 'truth' or 'new idea' in this case, only a crude error in logic which
a beginner in our field cannot easily see. What is important, when you
point this out to him, he always says something like ...
> OK, although problems of notation are hardly the most important
... and simply goes on with his revolutionary conclusions [Second Law of
Thermodynamics is wrong!], ignoring the fact that these conclusions are
based on flawed reasoning. His lack of responsiveness really is
maddening in any serious discussion, and it is a sign of a true crank or
graphomaniac. Just don't bother him with facts! Several regular
contributors to this group told me that they simply ordered their mail
readers to send any of Mr. Valev's messages right to the Trash, but I
think there must be a better way to deal with this...
-- Petr
_____________________________________________________________
Petr Kuzmic Ph.D. * BioKin Ltd. * Madison, WI 53708-8336, USA
pkuzmic at biokin.com * http://www.biokin.com * 608.256.1269 fax
