In article <9601221859.AA23589 at charlotte.med.unc.edu> Jeffrey Frelinger,
jfrelin at MED.UNC.EDU writes:
I share with you the fact that no immunology has been presented. I
therefore am happy you responded. The immune system however is even more
complicated than you depict. If you did this for simplicity pardon my
patronization. But a few clarifications would make it even more evident
that this complex organ needs more study.
>ALL OF THE LYMPHOCYTES IN THE BODY EMERGE TO THE PERIPHERY PRECOMMITTED
TO A
>SPECIFIC ANTIGEN.
Only partially true. B cells in particular are famous for their somatic
mutations leading to increased or even varied affinities for antigen.
STIMULATING ONE SET DOES NOT USE UP ANOTHER UNCOMMITTED
>SET. Actually a very interesting question. If you have a fixed set of
lymphocytes in the body which seems to be the case then how can you get
an increase of many logs of a specific T or B cell. There must be some
washout. Mel Cohn has a lovely model in which he explains we have many
fold the units of immune protection we need and that 90% of the
lymphocytes are useless, Therefore when the washout occurs it is of no
consiquence.
>VACCINE WOULD NOT HAVE BAD RESPONSES TO THE WILD TYPE ORGANISM.
>THE LENGTH OF A PROTECTIUVE IMMUNE RESPONSE TO BOTH A NATURAL INFECTION
AND
>VACCINE ARE UNKOWN. FURTHER IT IS USUALLY CHAEPER TO REVACCINATE SOMEONE
>THAN TO TEST FOR ANTIBODY (WHICH MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT THING TO TEST FOR).
A very important point that is often ignored. Although the IS usually
attacks in as many venues as possible the level of Abs is only indicitive
of the humoral arm. The CMI is often more effective and important (the
HIV debate on this issue is interesting).
>FINALLY THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF WELL CONTROLLED EXPERIEMENTS WHICH SHOW THE
>PROOF OF CONCEPT IN THE OPEN LITERATURE. IMMUNIZATION CAN PREVENT
>SUBSEQUENT DISEASE IN A HOST OF ANIMAL AND VIRAL SYSTEMS. THE IDEA IS
RIGHT
>AS JENNER AND PASTUER SHOWED. THE APPLICATIONIS LESS THAN PERFECT, BUT
SO
>IS THE IMMUNE REPONSE.
Finally, Vaccination is a proven fact. I can prove it in the lab with
mice any time with any Ag or pathogen. The fact that there are problems
in a small # of cases is a fact but these numbers are very small when
compared to the effect of the disease. I think these people are too
comfortable in this polio free world to remember how panic-struck polio
made us. It is unfair for a population to not vaccinate and live in a
society that does. They benefit at the organsim level without the cost.
I dare them to live in a country which does not vaccinate and the virus
runs rampant.
Sorry I got involved I suggest we all bug out and only
answerImmunologically oriented posts. This is an immunology page not a
quackery page. I chime in as an immunologist to be stimulated not
drivilated.......
>
