"AIDS Treatment News" online * New Issue #302 (searchable/indexed)

Carlton Hogan carlton at walleye.ccbr.umn.edu
Wed Nov 4 16:04:13 EST 1998


In article <363f9ca5.89376972 at netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
 <johnburgin at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On 2 Nov 1998 20:47:59 GMT, carlton at walleye.ccbr.umn.edu (Carlton
>Hogan) wrote:
>
>>In article <363ce241.84284241 at netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
>> <johnburgin at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 13:26:27 GMT, gmc0 at ix.netcom.com (George M.
>>>Carter) wrote:
>>>
>>>>johnburgin at worldnet.att.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Vaccination-induced seropositivity is NOT the same as
>>>>infection-induced seropositivity. 
>>>Vaccination-induced seropositivity is NOT the same as
>>>>infection-induced seropositivity. 
>>>How do you know? How do you know?
>>
>>Because he reads the literature. It really helps in understanding.

`>Because he can, excuse me, "read"?

Once again, your command of the material, and thoughtful analysis 
show through.

>>>
>>> (There are many different kinds of
>>>>vaccines, including whole-killed, live but disabled, subunit and other
>>>>varieties; the "live but disabled" variety (my terms) 

>>Actually, for the vaccines currently in trials, there *is* a distinctive
>>and unique wester blot associated with vaccination. This is because no
>>vaccine is using whole HIV, but just incomplete collections of antigens.

>Absolutely bogus.  No vaccine and you already got the wester(sic) blot
>for it!

What the hell are you talking about? There are at least two vaccines
rapidly appproaching phase III (VaxSyn and Remune), and *dozens* in 
phase I trials.

>>
>>>How will the test be
>>>able to tell, with certaintly, that the seropositive status is from
>>>"non-neutralizing" antibodies(I just love that term, it's so
>>>"grounding") or the real McCoy?  Obviously the only way one will know
>>>for sure is if they don't develop AIDS.  Isn't that special?
>>
>>It's not true, is what it is. See the above.

>see the above

Your ignorance of the existing clinical trials doesn't mean they 
don't exist - try http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu and use the "trialfinder"
to get sites, eligibility, etc for the current vaccine trials in the US.
Not even mentioning the trials going on in Africa, Thailand, etc.


>Isolation of the HIV retrovirus hasn't been accomplished(remember the
>$1 million dollar reward in Continuum.  So, even if, if it caused
>AIDS, which it obviously doesn't, how are you going to make the proper
>antigen for the vaccine?  

Funny: your hero, Duesberg claims it *has* been isolated, and tried to
collect the prize. The folks at continuum "moved the goalposts" and 
screwed him over.

Carlton



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