AIDS: Man-made?

TRKeske trkeske at
Sun Feb 8 00:12:36 EST 1998

>Can you provide the journal citation for Gondo et al.?  Also is
> there any substantiation for the prisoner testing model
>  for AIDS dissemination
> the Segal's offer?  This should be a matter of record.
> Seems that acceptance of such theories awaits better
> substantiation in proof - the smoking gun.  

My purpose here isn't to back Segal personally, yet, but just
to open it for discussion.  Actually, I was hoping that this
newsgroup might be able to provide some concrete
critique- either to attempt to refute, or to give more information.

I am still digging, very much interested myself in where he
gets the prisoner claims.  I don't think that it is necessarily
Segal's fault for not providing detail- it is equally likely
that he's tried very much, but can't get published, won't
be invited to speak, won't be invited to debate.

 I've seen a number of cases of such suppression of
attempted debate already, as when the CDC director
reneged on an offer to debate publically with Leonard Horowitz.

Reportedly, the fact that Horowitz's book, "Emerging Viruses:
AIDS and Ebola" should have been listed on the New York
Times bestseller list was conveniently ignored.

I have seen researchers practically begging to have a
laboratory test of Segal's claims, only to be met with derision.

For an interested layman like myself, who can't be expected
to arbitrate these highly technical disputes, it does not enhance
the credibility of the scientific establishment, merely to be told
that this is all nonsense, and we should go away.  Of the
arguments that I CAN understand, I'm afraid that the other
side is winning.

Segal is old and retired- it's hard to find information on him.
Probably, your best sources are the above-mentioned book
by Horowitz, and also the books by Don Cantwell (whose
writing style and analytical abilities  do not impress me,
but sometimes he can dig up some interesting raw information). 

As for "smoking guns", I think it is naive to expect such
conveniences.  We live in a wilderness of mirrors.  The
capabilities that exist today to fabricate films. documents,
recordings, signatures would be beyond the wildest dreams
of Goebels propaganda machine.  As I've said, when you have
a CIA that has done such things as to create phony videos
with actors who look like the President of Indonesia, how
can you expect "proof" that you can really trust?

Like it or not, we have no choice but to make judgements
on incomplete and possibly contaminated information.  We
have little choice, after making our best effort, to simply
make our best guess as to the truth.  When I see the
House Speaker putting his arm around a man who has
talked of putting gays in camps, I'm afraid that I'm likely
to conclude that we are the target of genocide, all evidence
to the contrary likely to be fabrication.

It is foolish simply to curse "paranoia".  It is high time for
America to own up to the seriousness of its own history,
the severity of anti-gay hatred, the consequences of
government scandal.

The only smoking guns of concern to minorities who imagine
themselves to be a target of genocide, I'm afraid, might someday
be the ones that they are holding toward the right-wing
crackpots who pollute our political system.  It is the only
smoking gun that you can know for sure that you can
trust.  Pardon me- I'm just trying to tell you how some 
people out there, in the ghettos and trenches, might be 
feeling.  Witness, for example, the extreme anger of the
black community over the CIA/crack connection.  The
so-called "paranoia" has a basis in fact.

Regards, Tom Keske


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