AIDS origin etc etc

Jay Mone jaymone at
Thu Feb 10 12:57:56 EST 2000

OK Tom, so you're trying to show that HIV seropositivity  in recipients of
the HBV vaccine had increased faster than the seropositivity of high risk
individuals who didn't get the vaccine, is that correct?  The only way to
know if this is true is to go back and test the pre and post serum samples
of the vaccine recipients.   Do the serum samples still exist?   Has anyone
done this?  I don't know of a study has done this?  Do you?  Until you have
that data, or something comparable, you're nowhere.  Show me the money, Tom.

"It is an interesting argument that the same individuals are at risk
for HBV and HIV. This is forgetting something- the men in
the vaccine group had never been exposed to HBV, or they wouldn't
have been of much value in the vaccine study, would they?
HBV was epidemic among sexually active gay men in the 1970s.
It had increased about 10-fold. That is one of the whole justifications
for using gay men as a test of hepatitis vaccine. Yet, the gay men in the
trial had NOT been exposed yet to hepatitis. It has been argued
that this made them LOWER risk for HIV, than other men of
equivalent sexual practice. Thus, the sharp statistical correlation
becomes even more interesting."

What's so interesting?  When the call for volunteers went out among high
risk communities (gays in NYC), many of the volunteers were probably HBV
positive.  However, they were not included in the study, for obvious
reasons.  The remainder were still high risk individuals.  The fact that
they hadn't yet acquired HBV doesn';t matter.  This certainly doesn't make
them lower risk.  The term "at risk" is a statistical term, not an absolute
one.  Remember that not everyone is infected with every possible pathogen.
However, by living certain lifestyles which favor transmission of HIV and
HBV, the at risk individual has a better chance to be infected.

"If HIV had really been around since 1930, we would have had
a full half-century to discover the virus, either in Africans, or
in primates."

The same could be said about any virus first described in the last 10 or 20

Jay Mone'
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