<no subject>

Jay Mone jaymone at paonline.com
Sat Feb 12 07:18:20 EST 2000

>I'm not sure that you're getting the point.  They are equally high risk for
>*future* infection.
>Here, the question is whether they were equally at risk for *past* and
>*present* infection,
>at the start of the trial.

I understand the point .  A funny thing happens when you look at it  from
the other direction.  There have been suggestions in the past that progress
in vaccine and treatment regimens might in some cases lead to higher risk.
Have you ever heard anyone say something like "Hey, I got vaccinated,  so I
don't have to worry about catching (insert your favorite microbe)"?  I have.
But again, this puts the cart before the horse.  First you must prove that
recipients of the HBV vaccine demonstrated higher rates of  HIV
seroconversion than non-vaccinated high risk controls.  I still haven't
gotten from you the reference you referred to.  Are you afraid to have me
look at before you have a chance to "figure it out"?  Or don't you have it?
Tom, believe it or not, we're on the same side.  I as a virologist am
interested in the issues, and I have no particular political or scientific
agenda regarding these types of issues.  I just don't agree with you.  SHOW
>HIV infection can be independent of HBV infection, of course.  However, they
>be correlated significantly- a point which I believe could be easily

Correlation between HBV and HIV is well documented.

>fact that the vaccine men were perfectly healthy, to all outward signs, and
>to escape exposure to a commonplace, sexually transmitted disease, increases
>odds that they were HIV-, at the beginning of the trial.   Proving exactly
>what the
>degree would be, is difficult.  However, I think that the qualitative judgem
>ent is
>sound enough.

Qualitiative judgements are not enough, and amount to nothing more than
unfounded accusations.  You must provide proof beyond a resonable doubt
before you accuse any person or organization of intentionally starting an
epidemic which has killed thousands and infected millions more.  This is
exactly your biggest problem, Tom.  If you can't find evidence, you just
kind of invent your own, or disregard the lack of evidence as irrelevant.
Its hard to take you serious when you come from this point of view, and why
so few serious people bother to respond to you at all.  I'm just a sucker
teacher who can't help trying to learn you something.

Jay Mone


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