Human + Chimp = ?

Christopher Hassell hassell at news.colorado.edu
Sun Jul 28 01:19:14 EST 1991


This is a bit of a spurious response.. given that it is having an ethical
turn and questioning.  The issue here comes down to a bit of Science/Society
interaction and a good dose of Society/Religion.   It is enough to consider
given Evolution as New Cultural Gospel [evangelized gospel].

vac+ at cs.cmu.edu (Vincent Cate) writes:
[] Rich Kliman
[] >In fact, if anyone can present a clear argument in favor of such
[] >research, given the FACT that some segments of society will be opposed, 

Definately many many aspects of MANY societies will be opposed... fortunately 
for moral altruism or unfortunately for scientific experimental understanding.

[] >I would like to see it presented. 

[] I will give it a shot.

I don't think this argument here went well.

[] A successful Chimpanzee Human cross would make the idea that Humans had
[] evolved from Apes much more believable to some of the more than 50% of
[] this planet's population that still does not believe in evolution.  

Then the above is a Bad Thing which would then be easily remedied?

I highly doubt that anything other than a philosophical knowledge will come out
of it for much of the world.   (Being that it was done by Science and not
in truth naturally).

	In most of the world, disbelief (given cultural strengths... and not 
		our Patrician Americentrism).  
	In other parts of the world, apathy (Hinduism already proscribes a 
		highly rigid structure of both lineage and value in society, 
		within a very wide and open framework).  
	In further parts of the world, secret experimentation in order to Get 
		secret Slaves [valulable in places with slow and dangerous 
		service economies].... with little need to consider them
		people.
	In the rest of the world, probably, a mixture of legal scrabbling,
		meditation over issues of compassion and respect, and plain and
		abrupt ignorance even of it as truth.

[] This
[] would reduce the control of religion and religious leaders over the minds
[] of people.  In time, this might prevent a war or two.  

I love this.

I won't go on and on and on.  The original was just an attempt at finding a 
"favorable" reason for the Experiment described earlier.  I won't go on 
wasting time on valuing or unvaluing the value of the Benefit.

But... it can easily be said that the above person seems to forget that gods
are not only made to be taken INTO War.... and are made FOR war... and are
created BY war..... and culturally we Americans already have gods to worship on
our own [now disassociated into principles and values and ethical patterns].

They also surround in/for/by issues of Life, Sustainance, Justice and any other
things that humans do on this Earth.  Assertions otherwise are simply dumb to
a request for reasoning other than "You don't like Religion as a word, do
you?"

Gods are also at the center of a Faith-Philosophy Worldview, as some would
aptly consider it.   List a bunch if you will.  (Faith and Philosophy both)

Given the first sentence... .. the Pope (the ONLY decent religious leader in 
this again Americentric view) didn't like the latest International war.   Heck
I KNOW the Dalai Lama didn't either.  I am also assured that only followers of
the ancient god Mars would enjoy the latest bloodshed-fight.   I am certainly
confused where this War Prevention is.  Islam could be picked on alot.. but not
merely because of its leaders... as could Americentricized Gawspel Republicans
from the South.   (even fights in India are based on Pakistani/Hindu people..
not Iranian attitudes and of course not on All Involved Religious Leader's 
Voices)

I'm confused why or what leaders have to do with anything anyhow.

[] Also, Creationists 
[] would have a harder time keeping evolution from being taught in American
[] schools.  

True.  Assuredly Creationists (Scientific Creationists as opposed to Principle
Creationists which are the actual group which exists in number)... cannot stand
well having their micro-only-because theories work out.  It would help a little
bit (the largest of problems not at all being scientific fact, as scientists
often forget about cultures, believing All Believe Science's Beliefs)

[] Children would get to spend more time on one of the most
[] fascinating of scientific theories.  

That would be rather silly to expect.  They already do (in all the schools 
that I've seen... and they still complain.  Science has a bad cloud around it
just as any Intellectualism-non-practicum in america.  Ask a H.S. Senior if he
will admit to believing ANYTHING specific about the beginning of the world....
no don't ask him his Philosophical Allegience.. ask him to describe "What
Happened."  Creationist response... maybe... Evolutionary response.. maybe...
NO response/jumbled Evolutionary... Highly Likely.

[] This would get more kids turned on to
[] science.

That'd be keen... and I'd say, given the above that it is a Good Thing.

[] To a scientist who already understands evolution the result would have
[] little direct impact.  To a child with a Creationists father, this clear
[] and simple result could alter the rest of his life.

A bit too much proximity to a conflict can often cloud judgment.

America vs. Typified-Bad-Southern/Hic-Stereotype ..... the picture vs. the 
factual world en-masse.  (again.. far beyond Americentrism.. especially in our
cousin Europe).

(eliminating the apparition or appearance of the second Thing appears to be 
more important than subtle references to devastating problems above).


[]    -- Vince

[] PS  Much of this discussion has moved off to a new mailing list.  If
[]     you want to be on it, send mail to:   vac+chimphuman at cs.cmu.edu

I was thinking about it.... merely for the complete list of Interbred species..
and I'd like to see it if it could be posted.  It looked neat.. given
percentages and all... (maybe a pattern.. maybe not) ... and it would be nice
to see Chromosome counts.

Post one eh?

ps... given the appearance of AIDS in monkeys first (I forget the species) ...
	in Africa.. and the blood/body-fluid customs which abound in Africa (as
	well as forms of sexual rituals).... is it not likely that the gross
	but logical example has been tried sporadically in history... but Not
	propogated [humans can kill in group.. but a Chuman could climb well 
	"ideally" and would be stronger than normal humans in the area]?
--
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### C>H> ### boulder.colorado.edu!tramp!hassell #### "Nietzche is dead." - God



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