RESULT: sci.anthropology.paleo passes 164:11

Ron "Asbestos" Dippold rdippold at
Sun Jan 9 22:56:18 EST 1994

	unmoderated group sci.anthropology.paleo passes 164:11

There were 164 YES votes and 11 NO votes, for a total of 175 valid
votes.  There was 1 abstain and 3 invalid ballots.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and
NO) votes.  There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator
of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
sci.anthropology.paleo	Evolution of man and other primates.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  All questions
regarding voting and procedure or reports of problems should be mailed
to Jan Isley <jan at>.

Jan has had some problems on his end with getting the results out.  He
sent me the raw results files and I've created this results posting.

All questions regarding the proposed new group should be mailed to
the proposer, Danny Yee <danny at>


sci.anthropology.paleo is for the discussion of the evolution of the 
genus Homo, and more generally of the primates.  Some of the topics 
likely to be covered include:

* primatology (primate social interactions, comparative morphology, ape
	languages, etc.)

* paleoanthropology "proper" (discussion of new fossil finds, etc.)

* the origins of human language and cognition

* the origins of distinctive human morphological features (bipedalism, 
	big brain, hairlessness, etc.)

* biological and genetic variation in Homo sapiens relevant to our evolution
	(e.g. mitochondrial DNA studies)

* sociobiological arguments that rely on evolutionary considerations.


Some subjects recently debated that would find a place in 

* The "African Eve" vs multi-regionalism debate

* The Aquatic Ape


Often it is easier to define something by explaining what it isn't, or
by looking at its boundaries with similar entities.  An example of this
>from biology is the Biological Species Concept, where species are
defined in terms of the mechanisms separating them from other species
(Ernst Mayr, 1969b); in anthropology the nature of the boundaries
between different groups are often critical to their self-identification
(see Frederik Barth, _Ethnic Groups and Boundaries_, 1969).  So in order
to explain what belongs in sci.anthropology.paleo a discussion of the
boundaries with the "neighbouring" newsgroups may help.  

*** (if created),, bionet.molbio.evolution

Discussions particular to human or primate evolution belong in
sci.anthropology.paleo; those on general evolutionary principles and on
the specific evolutionary histories of other taxa in
There is some overlap in the application of general theories, methods
and models of evolutionary biology to the primates in particular.  There
are also significant overlaps with and bionet.molbio, and some
crossposting is expected there.  

Some sample questions that would make appropriate crossposts are: 

* Is there evidence for punctuated equilibrium in human evolution?
* What are the physiological features of aquatic mammals that are shared
by man? ( 

* How does the latest work on molecular clocks tie in with the dating of
the Pan/Homo split?  (bionet.molbio.evolution)

*** sci.anthropology (with acknowledgements to Cameron Laird)

In general anything which refers directly to human evolution
should be posted to sci.anthropology.paleo.  Some examples of
questions which should be crossposted are:

* What material constraints (water, temperature, energy, protein, ...)
limit traditional human cultures which exploit savannahs?  Should we
expect the same to be true of australopithecines?

* Where can I find the best contemporary data which might speak to
multi-regional origins of our species?  Has anyone updated [Smith 1991]
on continuities in jaw anatomy between neanderthals and modern

* The sizes of viable cultural communities recorded in HRAF seem to
bottom out around several hundred.  Paleo-anthropologists most often
talk about bands of at most two dozen hominids.  When did our ancestors
start identifying with larger groups?  


Discussion of religious issues belongs in; it is not
appropriate for sci.anthropology.paleo.  It is envisaged that there will
be few crossposts between the two groups, and those that do occur will
narrow followups to one of the groups.  Appropriate material for a
crosspost might be a request for information on a scientific aspect of
human evolution that happens to be important in the context of a debate

*** sci.lang, alt.memetics

Discussion of non-biological (linguistic or cultural) evolution is not
within the sci.anthropology.paleo charter.  Discussion of the relevance
of ape language experiments to understanding of the origins of human
language could appropriately be cross-posted between sci.lang and

*** sci.cognitive

Discussion of the origins of human cognitive abilities might be
appropriately crossposted to sci.cognitive and sci.anthropology.paleo.
An example would be the invocation of evolutionary arguments in
_Consciousness Explained_ (Dennett 1991).  

*** alt.alien.visitors, sci.skeptic

Claims of extraterrestrial involvement in human origins belong in these


Please note, however, that the above are only guidelines.  Posters should
use their own discretion, but they are encouraged to think about both the
Newsgroups: and Followups-To: lines of their posts.  I can't imagine a
sensible crosspost to sci.anthropology.paleo and comp.os.research, but I
wouldn't want to rule out the possibility a priori.  

unmoderated group sci.anthropology.paleo Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
030ROBB at                                       Robert Brooks
3SS63 at QUCDN.QueensU.CA                                            Steve Sansom
aajri at                                            James Innes
adamsd at CERF.NET                                                  Douglas Adams
ahouse at                         Jeremy Creighton Ahouse
alr2 at                                            John Alroy
ALVARD at                                            Michael Alvard
Ant at                                                         Ant
an_rrs at                                            Randy Skelton
baffico at                                            Tom Baffico
bdmartin at                                           Bobby Martin
bds at                                         Bruce d. Scott
benjamin.franz at                                    Benjamin Franz
benke at                                                                  
bestc at                                                 Curtis Best
BOAZ at                                                Noel T. Boaz
boothc at                                                 Carter Booth
bromage at                                  David Bromage
bud at                                                        Bud Hovell
buglady at                                     Aliza R. Panitz
C741SCB at SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU                                          Allen Gathman
camilla at                                          Camilla Cracchiolo
carlson at                                       David L. Carlson
CAVDBERG at                              Cassio van den Berg
chan at                                         Leslie Chan
chaos at                                                 I. Iguanama
CHOPLIN at UNIV-TOURS.FR                                            Herve Choplin
chris at                                             Chris Heiny
chuahl at cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU                                    Chua Hak Lien
CKMOTORKA at                                           CHILE GURU
claird at sugar.NeoSoft.COM                                         Cameron Laird
CLANCEY at SLACVM.SLAC.Stanford.EDU                               Patrick Clancey
cnedin at                                     Chris Nedin
colby at                                               Chris Colby
cs5121 at                                             J.A.Dennison
dalfes at TRBOUN.BITNET                                             Nuzhet DALFES
danny at                                            Danny Yee
davidsen at                                                 Bill Davidsen
DBerline at                                    Derek Berliner
delancey at                                 Scott C DeLancey
dhouston at                                           David Houston
djp at                                                    David Padwa
dmurphy at cwa.COM                                                     Dan Murphy
dolber at                                              Paul C. Dolber
dominiq at                                   Dominique Bachelet
donovan at                                                 Marc M. Donovan
drayer at                                     Rebecca Drayer
duston at                                           Brian Duston
engwall at                                      Evan Engwall
erika at                                                       erika
fearghas at                                    Fearghas McKay
federhen at                                       Scott Federhen
finleyd at ukelele.GCR.COM                                           David Finley
fisher at                                           Steven Fisher
FJH30276 at UDELVM.BITNET                                         Karen Rosenberg
franklig at GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU                                Gregory C Franklin
frederil at                       Laust Frederiksen
g8713026 at                                   Anouk Behara
Geoff.Arnold at East.Sun.COM                                         Geoff Arnold
geoffm at                                         Geoffrey Miller
geroldf at                                                 Gerold Firl
gil at                                                   Gil Neiger
GRPOOL at UNB.CA                                                     Gail R. Pool
HARVEY at INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU                                          James Harvey
heck at                                            
heilmayr at                                    Stephan Heilmayr
henrik at                                                  Kibak
hirai at                                             Eiji Hirai
hjd at                                                H J Deacon
huston at                                            Herb Huston
I3150101 at DBSTU1.RZ.TU-BS.DE                                   Benedikt Rosenau
IAWJLEC at MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU                                         Leslie Carlin
igor at                                    Igor Zamberlan
J5J at PSUVM.PSU.EDU                                              John A. Johnson
jamison at                                                    
JAMQC at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU                                           JAMES A. MOORE
jbieley at                                                        
jcardozo at                                    Jesus Cardozo (FUNVENA)
jchokey at leland.Stanford.EDU                             James Alexander Chokey
jdavis at                                               Joel Davis
JEJOHNS at                                                Jack Johnston
jenike at                                      Mark Jenike
jesup at                                   Randell Jesup
jgift at                                                 Jonathan Gift
jimj at                                                 Jim Jewett
jjh00 at                                                Joel Hanes
jmulick at                               James A Mulick
jonivar at                                              
jperry at mercury.forestry.Umn.EDU                                      Jim Perry
jshreeve at                                             James Shreeve
jsp2 at                                                                
jwjhix at                                       John Hicks
kantner at                                          John Kantner
keck at                                           Paul Keck
kenc at                                                     Ken Corbin
KGA at UNCMVS.OIT.UNC.EDU                                       Kermyt G Anderson
KONTARAKI at                                                    
KUCHTA at GAMMA.IS.TCU.EDU                                             Tim Kuchta
kuserk at                                               Frank Kuserk
L15D at                                       Martin Schr\"oder
lachlan at                                         Lachlan Cranswick
ldaly at                                                     Liza Daly
leh1 at Lehigh.EDU                                               Lynn E. Hanninen
lenore at                                                 Lenore Ramm
litherland-o at                                                 
LMILES at UTCVM.UTC.EDU                                                 Lyn Miles
lofstrom at                                 Karen Lofstrom
lonadar at                                Victor E Aldridge III
lrf6as at                                                   A Staines
lsj at                                                Sverker Johansson
lwiig at                                      Linda Wiig
lyndae at                                         Lynda Marie Emel
mar at                                                 David Mar
martin at                                           Kimberly Martin
mazzarel at                                    Ariel Mazzarelli
MBAUSER at KENTVM.KENT.EDU                                         Michael Bauser
mcdonald at                               Ian McDonald
mdiffin at                                          Dr. M.C. Diffin
mhinkes at                                  Madeleine Hinkes
milton at                                    Simon K. Milton
MROPER31 at                                         Marilyn Roper
mrwarden at phoenix.Princeton.EDU                           Melissa Rhoads Warden
neilb at                                                Amfortas
neslu at                                          William Paulsen
nicholas.breen at                                       Nicholas Breen
park at                                                  Robert Park
pdc at                                                  Paul Crowley
PESOLE at PLAUTO.CSATA.IT                                         GRAZIANO PESOLE
pickens at                                             Rod Picks
PJC at                                               Peter Charlton
pound at                                     Christopher Brian Pound
quinn at phoenix.Princeton.EDU                                      Michael Quinn
R.BOOT at                                                Robert Boot
revu at                                      Sendhil Revuluri
rhoenes at                                 Richard Hoenes
robinson at                                     Jon Robinson
roth at                                              Hubert Roth
rparson at                                   Robert Parson
rsquires at                                        Roger M Squires
rte at                                               Ralph Edwards
sallylb at                                                 Sally Smith
sandee at                                             Daan Sandee
sarima at                                               Stan Friesen
sburke1 at                                               Sean Burke
ScheurerAlix.Herrmann at                       Alix Herrmann Scheurer
sharpe at                                      Richard Sharpe
sieferme at                             Eric Sieferman
slyang at phoenix.Princeton.EDU                                    Stephen L Yang
SPLUHAR at CROP.UOGUELPH.CA                                     Stephen A. Pluhar
stu at                                          Stu Labovitz
STWRILEY at VM.TEMPLE.EDU                                                        
T80LYY1 at NIU.BITNET                                                            
terry at                                                             
tim at                                                        Tim Stearns
Timo.Rinne at                                                   Timo Rinne
tjn5e at                                                 
tlode at                                                Trygve Lode
tracer at                                        David P. Tracer
ucjtpdl at                                                      ucjtpdl
una at                                             Una Smith
vstr18a at                                    Kathleen Anderson
wrcordw at                                  William R. Cordwell
yadallee at                     Dave Shariff Yadallee
zigmunds at                                   Zigmunds Vainers

Voted No
ault at                                                  James Ault
crouchkp at                                              
dmarcher at                                                     
fsspr at                                  Sean P. Ryan
js at                                           John Stonier
knauer at                                         Rob Knauerhase
psweeney at                                            Patrick Sweeney
rick at                                             Richard H. Miller
rrb at                                               Dick Barbour
shane at                                                    Shane Hartman
smarry at                                                     Smarasderagd

mmt at RedBrick.COM                                                 Maxime Taksar

Votes in error
herwin at                                                  Harry Erwin
   ! No votes
   ! No votes
pat at                                             Patricia E. Varley
   ! No votes

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