Quantum Physics and Neurons

Lester Ingber ingber at ingber.com
Tue Nov 26 09:03:30 EST 1996


I agree with the sentiments/thoughts below.  I have stated as much
from a physics point of view in smni96_nonlinear.ps.Z
          %A L. Ingber
          %T Nonlinear nonequilibrium nonquantum nonchaotic statistical
             mechanics of neocortical interactions
          %J Behavioral and Brain Sciences
          %V 19
          %N 2
          %P 300-301
          %D 1996
          %O URL http://www.ingber.com/smni96_nonlinear.ps.Z

Lester

In article <32945264.883857 at news.twics.com>,
Claude de Contrecoeur <Cyrano at beehive.twics.com> wrote:
:On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:03:38 GMT, lkh at mail.cei.net (Lee Kent
:Hempfling) wrote:
:
:>Alexander Easton <newc0101 at sable.ox.ac.uk> enunciated:
:>
:>>> I wonder whether phenomena of quantum physics might have an effect at
:>>> the level of biological molecules and mechanisms such as in neurons.
:>>> I know that the Planck quantum is quite small and its direct effects
:>>> are basically only realized in the mikrokosmos, but there might be for
:>>> example long-term effects, however, in an indirect manner.
:>>> It would then be interesting to speculate about effects on 
:>>> thinking, free will, conscious and so on, but also on the evolution
:>>> of the brain itself.
:>>> Can anyone provide me with information on this branch?
:>>> 
:
:All this grotesque quantum discussion on consciousness by Penrose,etc,
:has been taken seriously because Penrose is a well-known and good
:mathematician,etc.
:However,as far as consciousness is concerned Penrose is a complete
:IGNORANT and a primitive...and I advise him to have a look at :
:
:http://dog.net.uk/claude
:
:and then I advise him to do methodically what I have done for years
:and,AFTER THAT,I will be very happy to hear what Penrose has to say on
:consciousness.
:Claude
:
:>>Well....it looks like you are going down the line of conciousness as 
:>>thought of by people like Roger Penrose ("Emporers New Mind" etc). Here 
:>>he talks about phenomena of quantum physics at the  level of the cell 
:>>(especially in microtubules) as playing a role in conciousness. If you 
:>>want to look at this arguement any more then look into books like those 
:>>by Penrose, or there is also an account of quantal phenomena and their 
:>>relation to conciousness in the book "Towards a Science of conciousness" 
:>>which is a report on a conference in 1994. It goes into some detail, but 
:>>if you are interested it is well worth a read.
:>
:>>As to whether it plays as important a role as they claim...well, my mind 
:>>is still not made up. I would question whether conciousness can be fully 
:>>explained at this sort of level...I still beleive that there must be a 
:>>much larger combination of effects that give rise to "conciousness" and 
:>>believe that if events in microtubules underlay the whole process it 
:>>would be only too easy to claim that nearly ALL organisms had 
:>>conciousness...a highly questionable position.
...
:>A paper I have recently completed (Orch Or and Its Computationality)
:>is available at our company's web site papers page) argues that
:>Hameroff-Penrose are suggesting a protocol causes consciousness
:>without addressing the parts they are actually observing and studying.
:>
:>There is much more too it but rather than posting the piece here I'll
:>stop at that.
:>
:>lkh
:>
:>available at http://www.aston.ac.uk/~batong/Neutronics/
--
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  * LESTER                                     http://www.ingber.com/ *
  * Prof. Lester Ingber __ PO Box 857 __ McLean, VA 22101-0857 __ USA */



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