kenneth paul collins KPCollins at
Mon Oct 7 08:43:51 EST 1996

Diane Pritchatt wrote:
> In article <539vkf$krp at>, "COLLEEN M. SPECHT"
> <v102nq9f at> writes
> >In article <3256E64B.F0B at>, kenneth paul collins
> ><KPCollins at> writes:
> >>Brian Scott wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In article <32560DD0.13DC at>,
> >>> kenneth paul collins  <KPCollins at> wrote:
> >>
> >>> >ESB is not to be confuses with EST (electro-shock-"therapy") in which a
> >>> >current is applied across the temples in efforts to blast folks out of
> >>> >psychological "states" that are deemed, by societal consensus, to be
> >>> >"undesireable"... ken collins
> >>>
> >>> Steady on there buddy!  I've been told that ECT (EST) has been shown to
> >>> be of help in clinically depressed patients which otherwise don't respond to
> >>> drug therapy.  These people are in bad shape and suicide is a definite
> >>> possibility for them.  You make it sound like it's a bunch of Jack-booted
> >>> thugs eliminating the poor!
> >>
> >>....I stand on what I posted... the suicide danger is =real=, but ECT (thank
> >>you) is not the route to amelioration of such... the suicide danger is real
> >>because of all of the garbage that Ignorance has heaped up with respect to
> >>"depression"...
> >
> >
> >woah there.  ECT is indeed a therapy for several psychiatric/psychologic
> >conditions.  brian's point was a good one.
> >
> >
> >>....ECT is used without there first being any understanding of what
> >"depression"
> >>is... ECT is a =guess=...[snipped out opinion of what ect is/does] it "works"
> >by jolting the nerual architecture so
> >>violently that physical realtionships within the neural architecture are
> >>literally restructured... the result is an =illusion= of "effectiveness" when
> >>all that's occurred is that the neural architecture has been "adjusted" to the
> >>extent that it's rendered non-functional with respect to formerly-acquired
> >>memories... what good is such...? "the" nervous system "just" begins
> >>immediately to repair the ECT-produced physical damage, and as such occrus, old
> >>memories are reestablished... and, with them, comes the recurrence of the
> >>"depression" that was "swept under a rug" rather than being dealt with through
> >>an understanding of what it is...
> >
> >
> >
> >depression isn't just *one* thing.  let me guess that you are not a student of
> >psychology or psychiatry.  the fact is is that depression is the principle
> >psychological disorder.  while many people have and continue to study the
> >(obviosly several) underlying causes or otherwise 'etiologies', there are
> >millions of individuals in the u.s. that require care at present.
> >
> >
> >
> >>ECT is no "therapy" at all...
> >
> >
> >
> >this is simply a false statement.
> >
> >
> >
> >dr. or mr. collins, you should take care to note in your posts the difference
> >between your opinions and the current state of knowledge with regard to what
> >you are speaking to.  many others who do not otherwise know could confuse your
> >opinions with fact.  you seem to be somewhat frustrated with the current
> >treatments for depression and/or ECT in general.  you're losing your objective
> >here, which disqualifies your posts as 'good news'.
> >
> >
> >thank you,
> >
> >
> >colleen specht
> Thank God some sense prevailed in Colleen's news.

...part of the problem is that the general view is that there is any "sense" in the 
ECT "therapy"...

> I know ECT sounds terrifying, but I have 2 relatives that have undergone it.
> My Gran was HELPED by it, so don't assume because it sounds terrifying that 
> it doesn't work. this matter, I =do not= "assume"...

> I know first hand how terrible severe depression is. you also know that what's referred to as "depression" =is= "terrible" as a 
function of the prevailing Ignorance of what "depression" actually is...? that is, it 
is the Ignorance that has =artificially= generated, and =artificially= perpetuated, 
the murderous "terror" which, I agree, does exist...

> Were a drug developed that
> could get totally satisfactory results IMMEDIATELY, then I am sure no more ECT
> would be needed, but the fact is, this just is not available yet.

...our nervous systems acquire behavioral inertia only over the long term... all 
notions that such long-term-acquired behavioral inertia can be altered "immediately" 
are "just" flat-out Ignorant of the Physical Reality of our nervous systems, and are, 
in fact, the main thing that unwittingly conspires to imbue what's referred to as 
"depression" with deadly seriousness...

> Anyway, you
> must realise that any unit using such techniques does so under the strictest
> possible conditions and rules, and is only allowed to apply such a treatment
> after many other things have been unfruitful.  It is not used singly, either,
> but as an adjuct therapy to others, eg counselling and/or drugs.

...strict rules with respect to doing nonsense do not, somehow, transform the nonsense 
into something other than nonsense... and when it's the case that such nonsense is 
done by medical professionals with respect to Truly-deadly dynamics, such nonsense 
constitutes a =criminal= circumstance... which, Dear Readers, is what this sudden 
"jumping" of what I've posted with respect to "ECT" is actually all about... folks who 
have refused to do the work necessarily to actually comprehend Neuroscience "lobbying" 
on behalf of the Ignorance that they inflict upon others...

> And, yes, society has a lot to answer for.

...Society gains its understanding of stuff such as that which has been referred to as 
"depression" through the information that is promulgated by Medical professionals... 
if the Medical professionals continue to promulgate Ignorance, and to actively block 
the promulgation of Truth, with respect to the manner in which our nervous systems 
process information, then Society will learn continue the Ignorance that the Medical 
professionals promulgate... such is not the fault of Society... it's not the fault of 
parents... it is, squarely, the Fault of those who assume the awesome responsibility 
of becoming Medical Professionals... it is with Medical professionals that 
responsibility lies, not only in the matter of "depression", but in many other 
correlated matters... Ignorance kills... Ignorance promulgated by those who, by Law, 
are allowed to impose this or that mandatory standard upon Society are the folks who 
must stand and answer for the consequences of the Ignorance that they have imposed 
upon Society...

> Social workers are a big group of
> people who seem only to take on board the problems of people once they have hit
> either desperation or dissipation.

...Social Workers promulgate their own Ignorance, but with respect to "depression" 
they take their lead from the Ignorance that is promulgated by Medical 

>  The rest of society see the problems as the
> 'job' of social workers, psychiatrists and general practitioners.  It is often
> because they don't want to face up to their part  in creating such a sad
> situation (again, I know first hand).  and the church fails people, too.

...with respect to what has been referred to as "depression", everything comes down to 
the Ignorance that has been promulgated by the Medical professionals...

> BUT you can't blame doctors and medical staff for trying their level best
> against all the odds, with the only ammo they've got against such diseases as
> depression and suicial ideation.

...if it were the case that Medical professionals were "trying their level best
against all the odds, with the only ammo they've got" I'd be only supportive of their 
efforts... but although I am personally aware of some Medical Professionals who, 
because of their True Diligence, cannot be included in what I'm saying here, it just 
isn't True that the majority of Medical professionals are "trying their level best
against all the odds, with the only ammo they've got"... the =verifiable= Truth is 
that the case is "just" the opposite...

> Ignorance is the biggest problem of all in any of this.

...let's get one thing straight... who is it that has promulgated the Ignorance 
surrounding "depression"...?

> Going off half cocked
> and claiming that ECT is 'No therapy at all'. 

...I stand on what I've posted...

> - Perhaps you should volunteer to
> work in a psychiatric hospital for a while, then see whether you still come out
> thinking the same.  Perhaps, being intelligent, you ought to be thinking of
> working on the next generation of anti depressants in your research.  THINK

...I have lived my entire adult life in complete, if imperfect, devotion to the 
amelioration of the suffering that the still-needlessly-prevailing Ignorance of how 
our nervous systems process information inflicts upon all people, everywhere... this 
is what I do... I've given up all else to give myself to this task... my 
devotion to it is such that my own Children will never be born... I know that of which 
I speak... and it is only with agonizing sadness that I, having once again found 
myself inundated with "denial" and recriminations, that I must stand firm on behalf of 
Truth... this regard, I note here that Medical professionals have been greatly assisted 
in the promulgation of Ignorance by Governmental, Academic, Journalistic, Religious... 
and because of recent events I see, =belatedly=, that I must add Business 
professionals... it is the "profit motive" that has blinded professionals in these 
fields to their responsibilities with respect to "depression" and correlated stuff...

...I do not even have to offer any verification... anyone who wants to do so can look 
it up for themselves... ever since I developed _Duality Theory_, which is a unified 
theory of CNS function, cognition, affect, and behavior, and which, among other 
things, explains what "depression" is in terms of the proven Neuroscience experimental 
results, the pharmaceutical professionals have been verifying my position through all 
of the advertisements they've taken out with respect to, and on behalf of, the 
chemical "treatments" that they manufacture and sell that target "depression"... you 
don't have to take my word for anything... just look through issued of periodicals 
within the last 10 years, and you'll see the Pharmaceutical professionals, themselves, 
verifying the position which underpins my discussion... the corporations are forsaking 
Truth so that they can preserve the billions-of-dollars of "profits" that accrue to 
them through the Ignorance which they actively espouse...

...folks are coming to see the culpability of the tobacco companies...? I'll tell you, 
Truly, that which the tobacco companies have inflicted upon the Citizenry is but a 
small portion of the Same-Stuff that has been =knowingly= inflicted upon the Citizenry 
by the Pharmaceutical professionals... and what's darkly-hilarious is that the 
Pharmaceutical professionals have written their Confession, boldly, right in the 
Public Record to which the Citizenry has access...

...there is no way around Truth... K. P. Collins
People hate because they fear, and they fear because
they do not understand, and they do not understand 
because hating is less work than understanding.

More information about the Neur-sci mailing list