kenneth paul collins KPCollins at
Mon Oct 7 07:36:01 EST 1996

> In article <3256E64B.F0B at>, kenneth paul collins <KPCollins at> writes:
> >Brian Scott wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <32560DD0.13DC at>,
> >> kenneth paul collins  <KPCollins at> wrote:
> >
> >> >ESB is not to be confuses with EST (electro-shock-"therapy") in which a
> >> >current is applied across the temples in efforts to blast folks out of
> >> >psychological "states" that are deemed, by societal consensus, to be
> >> >"undesireable"... ken collins
> >>
> >> Steady on there buddy!  I've been told that ECT (EST) has been shown to
> >> be of help in clinically depressed patients which otherwise don't respond to
> >> drug therapy.  These people are in bad shape and suicide is a definite
> >> possibility for them.  You make it sound like it's a bunch of Jack-booted
> >> thugs eliminating the poor!
> >
> >....I stand on what I posted... the suicide danger is =real=, but ECT (thank
> >you) is not the route to amelioration of such... the suicide danger is real
> >because of all of the garbage that Ignorance has heaped up with respect to
> >"depression"...
> woah there.  ECT is indeed a therapy for several psychiatric/psychologic
> conditions.  brian's point was a good one.

...I stand on what I posted

> >....ECT is used without there first being any understanding of what "depression"
> >is... ECT is a =guess=...

[snipped out opinion of what ect is/does]

>> it "works" by jolting the nerual architecture so
> >violently that physical realtionships within the neural architecture are
> >literally restructured... the result is an =illusion= of "effectiveness" when
> >all that's occurred is that the neural architecture has been "adjusted" to the
> >extent that it's rendered non-functional with respect to formerly-acquired
> >memories... what good is such...? "the" nervous system "just" begins
> >immediately to repair the ECT-produced physical damage, and as such occrus, old
> >memories are reestablished... and, with them, comes the recurrence of the
> >"depression" that was "swept under a rug" rather than being dealt with through
> >an understanding of what it is...
> depression isn't just *one* thing.  let me guess that you are not a student of
> psychology or psychiatry.  the fact is is that depression is the principle
> psychological disorder. 

...I don't disagree that, currently, what's been referred to as "depression" does 
constitute a major problem... but, within my means to do so, I'll gladly go before 
any Scientists, anywhere, to demonstrate that what you've posted is incorrect... it 
is, in fact, the general failure to recognize what "depression" actually is that has 
artificially created a life-threatening "psychological disorder"

>> while many people have and continue to study the
> (obviosly several) underlying causes or otherwise 'etiologies', there are
> millions of individuals in the u.s. that require care at present.
> >ECT is no "therapy" at all...
> this is simply a false statement.

...I stand on what I've posted...

> dr. or mr. collins, you should take care to note in your posts the difference
> between your opinions and the current state of knowledge with regard to what
> you are speaking to.  many others who do not otherwise know could confuse your
> opinions with fact.  you seem to be somewhat frustrated with the current
> treatments for depression and/or ECT in general.  you're losing your objective
> here, which disqualifies your posts as 'good news'.

...I stand on what I've posted... if you're in a position to do so, I challenge you 
to make a formal presentation opportunity possible... if you don't, then, kindly, 
continue with me here until we have the matter sorted out completely... K. P. Collins

People hate because they fear, and they fear because
they do not understand, and they do not understand 
because hating is less work than understanding.

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