diane at bnclib.demon.co.uk
Mon Oct 7 03:54:40 EST 1996
In article <539vkf$krp at prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, "COLLEEN M. SPECHT"
<v102nq9f at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> writes
>In article <3256E64B.F0B at postoffice.worldnet.att.net>, kenneth paul collins
><KPCollins at postoffice.worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>Brian Scott wrote:
>>> In article <32560DD0.13DC at postoffice.worldnet.att.net>,
>>> kenneth paul collins <KPCollins at postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> >ESB is not to be confuses with EST (electro-shock-"therapy") in which a
>>> >current is applied across the temples in efforts to blast folks out of
>>> >psychological "states" that are deemed, by societal consensus, to be
>>> >"undesireable"... ken collins
>>> Steady on there buddy! I've been told that ECT (EST) has been shown to
>>> be of help in clinically depressed patients which otherwise don't respond to
>>> drug therapy. These people are in bad shape and suicide is a definite
>>> possibility for them. You make it sound like it's a bunch of Jack-booted
>>> thugs eliminating the poor!
>>....I stand on what I posted... the suicide danger is =real=, but ECT (thank
>>you) is not the route to amelioration of such... the suicide danger is real
>>because of all of the garbage that Ignorance has heaped up with respect to
>woah there. ECT is indeed a therapy for several psychiatric/psychologic
>conditions. brian's point was a good one.
>>....ECT is used without there first being any understanding of what
>>is... ECT is a =guess=...[snipped out opinion of what ect is/does] it "works"
>by jolting the nerual architecture so
>>violently that physical realtionships within the neural architecture are
>>literally restructured... the result is an =illusion= of "effectiveness" when
>>all that's occurred is that the neural architecture has been "adjusted" to the
>>extent that it's rendered non-functional with respect to formerly-acquired
>>memories... what good is such...? "the" nervous system "just" begins
>>immediately to repair the ECT-produced physical damage, and as such occrus, old
>>memories are reestablished... and, with them, comes the recurrence of the
>>"depression" that was "swept under a rug" rather than being dealt with through
>>an understanding of what it is...
>depression isn't just *one* thing. let me guess that you are not a student of
>psychology or psychiatry. the fact is is that depression is the principle
>psychological disorder. while many people have and continue to study the
>(obviosly several) underlying causes or otherwise 'etiologies', there are
>millions of individuals in the u.s. that require care at present.
>>ECT is no "therapy" at all...
>this is simply a false statement.
>dr. or mr. collins, you should take care to note in your posts the difference
>between your opinions and the current state of knowledge with regard to what
>you are speaking to. many others who do not otherwise know could confuse your
>opinions with fact. you seem to be somewhat frustrated with the current
>treatments for depression and/or ECT in general. you're losing your objective
>here, which disqualifies your posts as 'good news'.
Thank God some sense prevailed in Colleen's news. I know ECT sounds terrifying,
but I have 2 relatives that have undergone it. My Gran was HELPED by it, so
don't assume because it sounds terrifying that it doesn't work.
I know first hand how terrible severe depression is. Were a drug developed that
could get totally satisfactory results IMMEDIATELY, then I am sure no more ECT
would be needed, but the fact is, this just is not available yet. Anyway, you
must realise that any unit using such techniques does so under the strictest
possible conditions and rules, and is only allowed to apply such a treatment
after many other things have been unfruitful. It is not used singly, either,
but as an adjuct therapy to others, eg counselling and/or drugs.
And, yes, society has a lot to answer for. Social workers are a big group of
people who seem only to take on board the problems of people once they have hit
either desperation or dissipation. The rest of society see the problems as the
'job' of social workers, psychiatrists and general practitioners. It is often
because they don't want to face up to their part in creating such a sad
situation (again, I know first hand). and the church fails people, too.
BUT you can't blame doctors and medical staff for trying their level best
against all the odds, with the only ammo they've got against such diseases as
depression and suicial ideation.
Ignorance is the biggest problem of all in any of this. Going off half cocked
and claiming that ECT is 'No therapy at all'. - Perhaps you should volunteer to
work in a psychiatric hospital for a while, then see whether you still come out
thinking the same. Perhaps, being intelligent, you ought to be thinking of
working on the next generation of anti depressants in your research. THINK
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