ECT

kenneth paul collins KPCollins at postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Wed Oct 9 01:33:02 EST 1996


COLLEEN M. SPECHT wrote:
> 
> In article <3259C3D4.6315 at postoffice.worldnet.att.net>, kenneth paul collins <KPCollins at postoffice.worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >first, Colleen, it was me that got "jumped"...
> >second, I've spent 25 years developing a new theory and
> >your reaction to it is "snip" because you can't understand
> >it ... because it's new...?
> 
> i apologize: i have misled you.  i snipped it because i didn't see it as a
> response to the post that it was in response to.
> 
> >quoting from what you posted:
> >> and were it normal, how do you explain cultural
> >> differences, or even gender differences?
> >
> >....folks in different cultures experience the different
> >stuff of those different cultures... behavior
> >develops so as to reflect such experiential differences...
> >
> >....now, contemplate a genetically Viet Namese infant who
> >is brought to the US and who is raised by American parents
> >within the American culture... becomes behaviorally
> >"American"... acquiring American nationalistic prejudice
> >in the process... (or vice-versa for a genetically
> >American infant) what our nervous systems do is is glom
> >onto what we experience... it's exactly this that
> >techniques which artificially  manipulate the biology
> >flat-out ignore...
> 
> yes, but depression *and* learning mechanisms are presumably the same
> across cultures, are they not?  if they are not, i do not see how we can
> continue this thread any further.

within the bounds of "normal" variations, all the evidence of which I'm aware 
agrees with you...

> 
> on the other hand, *what* one becomes depressed about, or learns, as you
> note, would be different within, *as well as* between cultures.  therefore,
> i am afraid i still do not follow you.

...understand one thing... that everything one learns is encoded in the form of 
Physically-Real microscopic modifications to the nerual circuitry, and that 
these micro mods are formed as a direct result of the neural activation that 
actually occurs within a nervous system...

...so although "the" nervous system is "engineered" to be an 
extraordinarily-generalized information-processing system, it is one's 
individually-unique experience that drives the nerual impulse activity that 
constitutes the "template" upon which the microscopic trophic modifications 
which encode learning are formed...

...the genetic are generalized... experience is unique... learning conforms to 
the nerual impulse activity that occurs during experience...

...to come to see all of this, contenplate the microscopic modifications to the 
neural circuitry, and how the circuitry performs differently post-learning... 
(this is a bit demanding if you've no courses in Neuroscience... but it's 
=necessary=, so the work that understanding requires is worthwhile)

> 
> >> i do *not* believe, however, that the neural engram has
> >> been *disocovered*.
> >
> >....perhaps you can make some allowance for my "desperate"
> >online demeaner... I am the one who resolved this
> >problem... I had to invent a new branch of Mathematics
> >(Information Calculus) to do so... and even though I can
> >take this stuff before any Scientists, I've not been able
> >to win any opportunity to do so... and time's running
> >out for me...
> 
> the neural engram will be found in a living system, not in a mathematical
> model.  this is not what the term (used for decades in the literature) refers to.

...the Math models the Biology, and is an integral part of a theory in 
Neuroscience... 

...what do you think "words" are, Colleen...? I mean, show me any word that =is= 
that to which it refers... the verbal symbol "Big Mac" is not anything edible... 
"words", themselves, are "just" Mathematical operators... we all use such Math 
all the time... I just formalized it a bit... Please don't argue this point any 
further with me... else what will follow will, once again, seem to you to be 
"stinky"

> >> and you do not know me, either, kp.  i do not think you
> >> are an ogre because you express differing ideas.
> >
> >....no, you just treat me as if I were :-)
> 
> i am *sincerely* sorry if you feel that way.

Well, Colleen... don't be "sorry"... just understand that I'm sharing my Life's 
work with you... it's very-special stuff, being freely given... it's all 
thoroughly-substantiated via the proven Neuroscience experimental results, and 
although it's a bit clear that it's not communicating to you, you keep on 
telling me that what I'm sharing with you is unfounded... in doing so, you 
fairly deny that I even exist... don't be "sorry", there's no need for such... 
just don't trash this or that, with respect to =anything=, before you understand 
what it is... no?

> >> it is not *that* you express differing ideas, it is not
> >> even that you do not express them very well.... it is
> >> that you express them with contempt, impatience, and
> >> with a lack of appreciation that everyone who reads this
> >> group is not a clinician or scientist
> >
> >....no, that's not it... if you'll look back in the thread,
> >you'll see that I got "jumped"... and the "jumpers" were
> >not only wrong, they were wrong and denying the validity
> >of the Truth which I was posting... I'm patient with folks
> >who want to understand... I tend to be less patient with
> >folks who will not listen to reason, but who go right on
> >posting stuff that's verifiably False... and I really get
> >worked up when what's posted is wrong but plays into the
> >hands of folks who care about money instead of people...
> >pick & choose, my reactions will pretty-much be the
> >same... I've been at this for years... I'm only doing what
> >=needs= to be done... the existence, and seriousness, of
> >the need are easily verified...
> 
> i thought i was following this thread from the beginning...all i recall is
> that a man named brian scott pointed out (to us all) that ECT is not what you
> claimed it to be.  is this the "jump" (?) you refer to?

...no, Colleen, it was after the response to which you refer... 

> 
> (and please try to be more patient!)
> 
> >> i hereby pledge that if you wish to continue this
> >> bantering i will not waste anyone else's time.  kindly
> >> respond to my email so the rest of the group can be
> >> spared the noise.
> >
> >....well, I'm sorry that things did get a bit "testy"...
> >but it's essential that I keep my discussion out in the
> >open...
> 
> as you wish...i think that the bantering has stopped for the moment...
> 
> >....just try to understand, I've given up my own Life to do
> >this work for =you=... you are free to receive it, or not,
> >you are not free to refuse to understand what it is yet
> >trash it, too... ken
> 
> perhaps this is what none of us can understand...and if you don't mind i would
> like to say that i don't believe that good intentions are useful unless they
> are applied properly.  you leave out much detail in your haste to make your
> points that they are easily missed.  that's all.

...the stuff of our discussion, which from my view is the Ignorance that's 
prevailed with respect to what's been referred to as "depression", and the 
tragedy that such Ignorance has inflicted within human affairs, is 
extremely-serious stuff with respect to which I've been "attacked" by folks who 
are =knowingly= forsaking Truth... I must face such in all seriousness...

...heck, Colleen, my work is decades-old... you were unaware of it because its 
publication has been blocked... all I can say is that I've tried, desperately, 
to get it out to you... that, and that it's completely-substantiated... and 
since it is, and since days are numbered for me, and so very-precious, I'm going 
to, pretty-much, have to just "tell it like it is"...

...do you understand, now, that "depression" is not an "illness"? do you 
understand that what's referred to as "depression" is actually the stuff of a 
beautifully-functional, genetically-established portion of our nervous systems' 
functioning? do you understand that, in Ignorance, well-menaing folks have 
created a condition in which the functioning of this innate mechanism is often 
transformed into dynamics having deadly seriousness? do you understand that a 
"treatment" industry has grown up around that Ignorance, and that that industry 
has knowingly perpetuated the suffering bred within that "state" of 
Ignorance...?

...maybe you don't understand... but I do, and it's clear to me where my 
responsibility exists with respect to what I understand...

...if you want to continue, please clip only =one= point from this message, and 
post it to me... we're taking up too much of the forum's resources by quoting so 
much back & forth... ken collins
_____________________________________________________
People hate because they fear, and they fear because
they do not understand, and they do not understand 
because hating is less work than understanding.



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