Krakatoa stephan at nospam.ucla.edu
Sun Dec 20 04:43:33 EST 1998

Maybe you should try reading the paper completely (or ANY paper
completely) before torturing us with more dribble.  CREB is a
transcription factor, the role proposed for memory is relatively straight
forward, how did you possibly turn that into the dribbling nonsense found
below? Did you even read the abstract?

In article <367CB6B5.2B792610 at pop3.concentric.net>,
kkollins at concentric.net wrote:

> I've read "CREB and Memory", A. J. Silve, J. H. Kogan, P. W. Frankland,
> and S. Kida, Annual Review of Neuroscience, 1998 21:127-48
> (incompletely... after a point in my reading, it was clear that there
> was no reason to continue.
> If one reads this paper, with an eye on ionic conductances, one
> Sees-Clearly that the thing that Determines CREB's role in "memory" is
> ionic-conductance-gradient Dependent... that is, there's an Observable
> "time"-correlated-sequencing (an Order) that Determines these molecular
> correlates of "memory".
> The paper is over-flowing with Verification of such.
> The easiest way to get a handle on such is from the the the way that
> massed training fails to overcome CREB(alpha-delta[minus]), while
> spaced-training does.
> Read AoK's discussions of "randomness" (TD E/I(up) in Ap4, Ap5, Ap7, and
> Ap8, then study the "ramp architecture" as it's discussed in Ap3, Ap5,
> Ap6, Ap7, and Ap8... in other words, develop a firm grasp of the nervous
> system's "special topological homeomorphism" (AoK, "short-paper"), =and=
> the way that TD E/I occus within it.
> The massed-training constitutes a relatively-random TD E/I be-cause, in
> it, the TD E/I-min mechanisms are relatively overwhelmed.
> In the spaced-training trials, the TD E/I-min mechanisms are able to act
> in a way that's "normal" (relative to the the way they are unable to act
> in the massed-training).
> With respect to the overall neural topology, in the massed-training
> trials, there is relatively-little formation of dynamic
> "ramp-architecture" (AoK, Ap3, Ap5, Ap6, Ap7, Ap8), but in the
> spaced-training trials the formation of such dynamic "ramp-architecture"
> "approximates" "normality" (relative to the results of the
> massed-training trials).
> What such discloses (to folks who've a handle on the neural topology) is
> that, since the topologically-distributed "ramping" has been Verified
> (as above) to be Necessary, the CREB dynamics are "time"-sequenc-Order
> Dependent.
> In other words, the CREB dynamics constitute a molecular-level
> "ramp-architecture"... that is, the molecular-sequencing "reflects" the
> "ramp-architecture" inherent in the local neural topology in which the
> molecular dynamics occur... all that's happening is that, if a "memory"
> is to be encoded, the dynamics through which that encoding occurs =Must=
> be "time"-sequenced in a way that reflects the energy gradients inherent
> in the ionic conductances flowing within the neural topology.
> Get out a pencil and paper, and draw some "ramps" (right-Triangles
> ("inclined-planes") will do... then chart the molecular dynamics, in a
> "time"-sequenced way, upon the "ramps"... when you do so, if you
> Look-and-See, you'll find Rigorously-Coupled ionic conductances which
> are, themselves, Rigorously-Coupled to the Macroscopic Neural Topology.
> Not only is this how "memory" is formed, it's also how it's Addressed...
> and, be-cause it all reduces to the ionic conductances, the
> information-storage Capacity of these "memory"-encoding is =Immense=
> (I've not been able to find it's "limits", and be-cause the ionic
> conductances can be varied Continuously, I expect that neither will
> anyone else find such "limits".)
> Do you get-it?
> The ionic conductances =Determine= the dynamic molecular-level
> "ramp-architecture", and this, simultaneously =Determines= the
> "time"-sequencing inherent in to molecular-level dynamics, both in
> "memory" encoding and in "memory Adderssing... it's =Exactly= analogous
> to "inclined-planes" in Physics 101.
> There's just one "technicality" to get-straight... there Exists no such
> thing as "time", so, in doing the sequencing of the molecular dynamics,
> one =Must= order things via energy gradients... which, Look-and-See, are
> "just" the ionic conductances :-)
> Please =Forgive= me if I "Chide" Folks, a-bit... =all= of what's
> discussed in this msg has been right in AoK all along... but only for
> those who took the "time" to Learn the Neural Topology. K. P. Collins
> [A Sorrowful "aside"... I went online to bionet.neuroscience this night
> for the sole purpose of writing this msg. I was connected while writing
> it. While doing so, I noted repeated disk-accesses of a substantial
> nature... I disconnected, and unplugged my phone line, and the disk
> accesses Ceased Immediately... the "experts" were uploading from my HD
> en masse.
> I'm Dis-Heartened with you, my Colleagues in Neuroscience, that you
> "move away from" ("turn your backs upon") these Cruelly-Brutal, Illegal,
> Dynamics which Steal Life, itself, from me, and Relegate me to a "state"
> of Being-Virtually-Imprisoned.
> In this, You Allow Innocents to be Savaged, Ravaged, and Slaughtered.
> Kindly, =Wake-Up=. K. P. Collins]
> [(c) K. P. Collins, 20Dec98]

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