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Dental trouble & apnea (lidocaine abstracts)

Brian Sandle bsandle at southern.co.nz
Tue Feb 9 07:31:37 EST 1999

In sci.med.dentistry John B. Fisher <john_b_fisher at bellsouth.net> wrote:
: Brian Sandle wrote:

:> You should be using a threaded newsreader. Then each
:> thread is like a little newsgroup. If you lose interest you
:> don't have to read that thread.

: I'ld be very surprised if Bear does not have a threaded newsreader.

Then what is the reason it bothers Bear to have this connecting 
sub-newsgroup? Is it that this thread is not just about some technique 
sold by doctors?

And I had an email from the chronic pain group saying the thread is not 
wanted by a reader there.

:> The reason this article is in all those groups is that it
:> started in the pain & fibromyalgia groups,

Stigmata1's pain (alt.support.chronic-pain) started from dental work but
it was different from mine in that it started straight away. It did move
further over his body than Barry Kaplan had noted before, from dental
work. So did mine. 

I suppose I should have done more research on this but hoped to get some
ideas back. Maybe the chronic pain group or bionet.neuroscience could send
out some ideas on pain referral. What organ does it happen through? Is it
the thalamus or what? 

 had a followup
:> to earlier material of mine which had received replies on
:> bionet.neuroscience,

About lidocaine and seizures, thanks. I don't think dentists come across 
that much, but see the sci.med.dentistry `siezure' thread. Maybe it can 
happen if there is some brain injury or treatment which has weakened the 
blood brain barrier. I have not posted to the epilepsy group. It may have 
been  worth it to do so.

 is on the sleep disorder group
:> because it is asking whether people have considered
:> sleep apnea as a cause for their pains,

But that question seems intrusive to the sleep apnea group. But thanks 
for your reply here.

 and it of course
:> is asking whether the dentists have thought of any
:> connection to their work and sleep disorder - troubles
:> occurring after a night or so. It is on the mult-sclerosis
:> group since it arose after a radio program on MS
:> following local anesthetic and it also hopes to clarify
:> more about MS and locals.

: Yes, sleep disorders do cause many symptoms, not the least of which are
: neurological.  But the correlation between these symptoms are related to (a)
: sleep deprivation and (b) reduced saturated oxygen in the blood ... along
: with increased CO2 levels.  Sorry, that's the correlating factor.

:>> and has not solicited any interest on the ASSD news group.
:> Which I find disappointing. I was hoping that someone might
:> go back through my articles and say, yes I have had shihn
:> cramps from sleep apnea, or neck cramps or whatever. Or
:> maybe ASSD will deny any pains or physical effects other
:> than sleepiness from sleep apnea. Though the receptionist
:> I spoke to at the local hospital here said it does have
:> neurological effects. You might tell me how one knows if one
:> has it if one sleeps alone. She said wives mainly report it
:> to husbands.

: Sigh!  You obviously think a sleep disorder such as sleep apnea is just
: something that can get better with a little more sleep.  Sarcastic.  Yes.
: But you clearly have not done the research prior to including this newsgroup
: in your post.

I learned a bit, but sometimes newsgroup posts bring up other points than 
what is in the traditional line. Also rather than have one person 
(myself) propound it is interesting to have others educating us all. I am 
sure some sci.med.dental persons have learned somewhat from your reply here.

: Sleep apnea (obstructive or caused by the central nervous system) results in
: a host of typical symptoms.  They tend to cluster around two primary areas.

: Neurological

: This cluster includes depression, extreme daytime sleepiness (which kills
: due to auto and industrial accidents), sleep deprivation, hypnogenic
: hallucenations, short term memory loss, irratibility, to name a few.

Well MS is neurological. There is some Medline stuff on apnea and MS when 
the breathing control centre gets involved.

But I am interested more in whether MS could be worsened by sleep apnea. 
Do any of the MS people have experience with sleep apnea testing? My 
theory is to examine whether conditions which predispose to MS worsening 
might be similar to ones which predispose to increased sleep apnea, for 
some individuals. It may not be of significance. 

: Cardiovascular

: This second cluster includes hypertension, stroke, heart attacks,
: potentially congestive heart failure (the research on this is in progress),
: leg cramps, night sweats, just to name a few symptoms.

I did not have hypertension but I thought of stroke, heart attack, and 
had leg cramp, wanting explanation for the deames of certain nerve 
branches, even motor trouble.

: By noting this, I'm not denying the possibility there may be a connection in
: a few individuals.  Just the vast majority of us have far more common
: causes.

That is a little unclear as to whether you mean most people have more 
common causes than sleep apnea for those things, or whether you are 
referring back to my possible causes for sleep apnea - dental work or 
local anesthetics, or perhaps infections.

Yes, the sales approach to medicine works with applying the treatment
which works for the average. Trying to mop up if that doesn't help. 
is where I am at with this thread. It is for some sort of minority of
people. Maybe a few from the newsgroups I have posted to will be wondering
if they might come into a subgroup who should be careful about local
anesthetics, or about messing around with the sinuses.

I included prepster's article from that point of view. Since Lidocaine in 
the nasal passages can cause sleep apnea by spoiling the air movement 
sense, can operations? prepster wanted comments about UPPP. I do not know 
what that is, but if it has a low success rate could that be the reason?

: Regards,
: =jbf=

: John B. Fisher

Thanks, John.

Have had no repsonse from fibromyalgia group. Any knowledge of sleep 
apnea there?

Brian Sandle

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