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Nonhuman empathy

Cijadrachon cijadra at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Sun Feb 21 13:34:58 EST 1999

(SKIP to most people.)

>> There is a controversy about whether animals besides humans are
>> capable of empathy.
A fruit fly, pony, dolphin, parrot, spider, tape worm, ...?

With such precision of the question the controversy does not amaze me.

>>It appears to me that scientists who think that
>> animals can empathize(sp??) are in the minority, with the majority of
>> scientists holding on to the ideology that only humans have such
>> qualitites.

Since here empathy is to do with magic emotion perception, where
scientists are lagging back several thousand years behind others, 
and since part of them like to eat persons of other races, keep them
prisoner, and since in places like here we left persons of other races
hardly any place to live naturally and some none, since neurology
books are full of some of the most gross deeds of humanity to people
of other races, etc.,  such does not amaze me.

> you're assigning human emotions, thoughts, etc. to an animal without justification.
I did not get the part which emotions exactly of the human animal you
are referring to a turtle animal or certain other animal not having.

>When we see a dog pull the corners of his mouth back we're liable to thing oh,
>look, he's smilingt-
WE certainly are not, though with you I do not exclude it.
I tend to get emotional data, and mine is that often if the tale is
waggling together with a load of head stuff then that is often where
humans might smile. 

>When you say your turtle "gets nervous", you're assigning human emotions to him without
He does not have nerves that go more active in a situation that might
be a bit like when someone compared to your size more than a dozen
meters high focussing upon you when you might not be sure about the
intentions? Or find it disquiting in other ways?

But I assume to make this point you know exactly which areas per
neurology definition are to do with "nervous" and who all else does (
not) have them?

>We don't know what his emotional state is. 
I do not get the we.
I have not perceived him.
Some turtles I found more easy to understand a bit and some more

I guess if someone lives with him for a while, then if he says
something he is not saying it for no reason.

>Maybe he's on the verge of attacking.

>Despite various sorts of use and misuse, *empathy* is the ability to conceptually
>project  yourself into the condition of another, through shared experience,
As mentioned here despite various sorts of use and misuse it often is
referring to the ability to magically perceive emotions.

> It requires both conciousness 
Do turtles have a limbic system and if so and if they have a fornix
what is at the ends of the fornix?

If not knowing I guess if one was dead long enough if it was very
important one could check.

Not that they could not have stuff quite different, as to me the
register as historically ways older peoples than me.

> If I see your turtle running from your dog, I can sympathize with him, but I can't empathize.

Unless there were some safer place nearby I might be amazed that he is
going for a race with a dog instead of pulling inside.

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