Thinking without language?

Alan Roth alan42 at mindspring.com
Sun Nov 21 18:09:01 EST 1999


patrik bagge <patrik-b at online.no> wrote in message
news:Yf_Z3.15496$1C4.146745 at news1.online.no...
[...]
> >An old friend always admonished me to "stay confused." This, because
the
> >resolution of confusion is learning. It is a prime motivator for me
to
> >find out how it really workds.
>
> yes, but i would like to separate (in my ai work) the
> desire as the gravitational force pulling facts into
> our minds, in the better of scenarios,
> creating truthful knowledge.
Truth is elusive in an universe that is combinatorially intractible.
Perhaps "a view" that is driven by current desire or need is the best
that we can do. But, this is, again, a situated view, not one that
presumes that facts represent things in themselves.

> >> thus, imho, creativity/improvization goes
> >> hand in hand with learning/knowledge
> >> and understanding.
>
> >One can look up the facts, or try to discover the principle and then
> >generalize to other areas. A lifetime of doing this produces someone
who
> >is not going to fit into rounded-off holes.
>
>
> well, well i'm suddenly a great beleiver in the
> existance of parallell universes, or put another way
> , i couldn't agree more.
> During my sentence in various programming
> institutions (schools), i hang around with the 'nerds'
> and in evenings with the 'party-animals', getting
> some acknowledgement in both camps.
> One or two had a really hard time fitting my 'existance'
> in any of the classical holes. Classification is
> great functionality in the human mind,
> occasionally working a bit too hard.
I really hate classification--I suppose I didn't take to biology in high
school. More seriously, it is part of the mystical nature of
intelligence to avoid neat categories and bounding names. If I
categorize myself, then, I become a liar the next time I violate
whatever "ism" it is that was supposed to define me. This is the problem
with trying to find the center and using holistic techniques to do it.
There are damned few of us--I hope I have found some company.

>> to creativity i associate intelligence
> >> combined with 'big picture', 'crosscientific' etc
> >> I have come to the conclusion that
> >> dr, phd titles , occasionally inhibits
> >> creativity, one has read a book to many
> >> without enough personal evaluation.
> >I discovered this in college when one of my professor's was so dry
and
> >matter-of-fact that I almost fell asleep on him several times. Didn't
> >want to risk asking a question--he might not have been able to get
out
> >of the facts and into the question--BTW, he was a professor in
> >English--this made it particularly disappointing.
>
>
> i can detect no harm done, one of my teachers was
> great, MTV.
I think my best teacher was in calculus--he went on to become a "name"
in the field. Others disappointed so badly that I was encouraged to find
a different major. Teachers can have an important influence--both ways.

> >> imho creativity:
> >> analogy in patterns between different
> >> contexts, nothing is really 'new'
>
>
> >I understand what you mean, but I do believe that the resolution of
the
> >analytical and the holistic varies as socities evolve. This is a slow
> >process, but yesterday's creativity must be improved on to evolve
into
> >tomorrow's dream (or nightmare, whichever it is).
>
>
> hmm, knowledge varies and increases,
> do you suggest that creativity in H.Sapiens varies too ?
This is fascinating because I believe that various cultures produce
differing temperaments, either genetically or because of training. Yes,
creativity varies from individual to individual. (The Meyers-Briggs
"Sensors" can be creative only within an existing framework--we
"Intuitives" get outside the box on a regular basis, [and sometimes we
fall off of it].)

> allow me to introduce another fellow that i consider interesting
> , but haven't deared to hire yet, the Rebel.
> His 'purpose' in existance is to put a questionmark
> after every new and old truth. he is really time consuming
> , most of the truths are still true, But occasionally
> he helps us detect that true=false
I was him when I was younger. Everything was supposed to hold up to
scientific scrutiny--I was surprised to find that social structures are
arbitrary and, often, unfair. This finding hasn't changed, but there is
little reason to probe it rationally anymore. It's a "force of nature."
The Rebel would want to avoid it. The Crusader would want to change it.
I just want to find a way to accommodate the inexorable action of power
and politics from the vantage of what is my own sane world--it keeps me
busy asking questions since it has so little to do with thinking "inside
the box," I still don't understand "the management" I suppose.

> /pat
Alan







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