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Thinking without language?

patrik bagge patrik-b at online.no
Sun Nov 21 19:29:17 EST 1999

>Truth is elusive in an universe that is combinatorially intractible.
>Perhaps "a view" that is driven by current desire or need is the best
>that we can do. But, this is, again, a situated view, not one that
>presumes that facts represent things in themselves.

due to my poor english (i hope) ,i have a little difficulty parsing that
, could you reiterate & rephrase?

>I really hate classification--I suppose I didn't take to biology in high
>school. More seriously, it is part of the mystical nature of
>intelligence to avoid neat categories and bounding names. If I
>categorize myself, then, I become a liar the next time I violate
>whatever "ism" it is that was supposed to define me. This is the problem
>with trying to find the center and using holistic techniques to do it.
>There are damned few of us--I hope I have found some company.

seems that way .. here are 2 of my favoritue ways of obtaining
an open mind, big picture, creativity, greater sense of less confusion.

1) when visiting a pub, do not always try to attract the opposite gender.
engage occasionally in communication with a sailor and listen.
The sailor might have crossed the ocean of life a couple of times...

2) travel, not always in the purpose of getting a different skincolor
, but to communicate with fellow human beings.

anyway, one of the massmurders of all times is 'classification'
in an attempt to be really deep i will put to public
display one of mine new, in the creation process, beliefs.
humans in different classes might be communicating about
EXACTLY the same things. the religious 'god'  =
darwins 'survive&reproduce' = laws of physics
etc etc
this phenomenon, which is one of many, might
be called 'force of life' in order to avoid a couple of
emotions and a couple of wars.
imho, mr collins is arguing this line of thinking
, i do not know if he is 'right', but it smells that way.

>I think my best teacher was in calculus--he went on to become a "name"
>in the field. Others disappointed so badly that I was encouraged to find
>a different major. Teachers can have an important influence--both ways.

yes, absolutely, some of mine actually managed to turn, for me,  boring
subjects into interesting ones.Teachers have great responsibility,
sometimes more than they know, themselves.

>> hmm, knowledge varies and increases,
>> do you suggest that creativity in H.Sapiens varies too ?
>This is fascinating because I believe that various cultures produce
>differing temperaments, either genetically or because of training. Yes,
>creativity varies from individual to individual. (The Meyers-Briggs
>"Sensors" can be creative only within an existing framework--we
>"Intuitives" get outside the box on a regular basis, [and sometimes we
>fall off of it].)

huu, now we begin to swim in dangerous waters, when relating
genetic origins to behaviour .... actually i agree.
what i meant to ask was, do you consider the stoneage
human less creative than present human, in any greater degree?

>> allow me to introduce another fellow that i consider interesting
>> , but haven't deared to hire yet, the Rebel.
>> His 'purpose' in existance is to put a questionmark
>> after every new and old truth. he is really time consuming
>> , most of the truths are still true, But occasionally
>> he helps us detect that true=false
>I was him when I was younger. Everything was supposed to hold up to
>scientific scrutiny--I was surprised to find that social structures are
>arbitrary and, often, unfair. This finding hasn't changed, but there is
>little reason to probe it rationally anymore. It's a "force of nature."
>The Rebel would want to avoid it. The Crusader would want to change it.
>I just want to find a way to accommodate the inexorable action of power
>and politics from the vantage of what is my own sane world--it keeps me
>busy asking questions since it has so little to do with thinking "inside
>the box," I still don't understand "the management" I suppose.

aren't we all 'rebels' in the separation process from our parents.
if i understand you correctly, 'management' might be old verified
truths, that enables society as a whole to function better, of course
these truths must be subject to the rebels questionmark occasionally.

i have this 'sleeping' flaw in my personality, nighty nighty

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