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Thinking without language?

patrik bagge patrik-b at online.no
Mon Nov 22 11:53:38 EST 1999


>> mmm.. something like that, yes, the theoretical physicians are
>> now using 'words' like 'god' and 'consciousness' .. things
>> are melting together.
>Isn't this delightful. But there are still many diehards who seem to
>believe that tinkering with paradigms is the work of Satan.


yup, iv'e heard that they have better parties in hell and a somewhat
warmer climate .. jokes aside, i wonder how many -isms one
should brake saying that there is no grand difference between
pictures and words. In a picture, one can draw symbols, calling
them words explaining the picture or vice versa. In analogy to
that it's possible to draw a picture using words, somewhat harder
(the difference) but equally possible.

>> yes, stupid of me, if one beleives in the 'natural selection' thing
>> it's obvious, intelligence, including creativity has been favoured
>> and selected, we might be a living proof of that.
>I assume from this that you have little doubt that "natural selection"
>is "perfect" and "efficient" like the stock market? Maybe things were
>better in 1620.

i was serious, 'survive&reproduce', wherever it comes from has
, so far, explained all human behaviour to me.

>> ok, sounds energy consuming, do you experience a lot of 'heat'
>> when questioning management?
>> we might disagree a bit on this one, my motto, in a wider sense
>> is to 'get along', with a high degree of sensibility for 'evil'


>I've been fired more than once. It's not just questioning management
>that can be a problem--it's the current perception that Political
>Correctness is more important than the work being done (and that
>team-playing is more important than the product ending up with more than
>passable quality--this is espoused openly in the software
>industry--quality is somewhere far down the list). The workers have been
>brain-washed into squelching anyone who won't "play the game."


quite right, when, ever, has the best product been most successfull
, it's all in the marketing or shouting and who you know or don't.
this is part of reality, hard to do much about.

>I was attracted to Ayn Rand's description of how mediocrity rules
>when I was in college--I may pick up a copy of Fountainhead again. It
>turns out that individualism and excellence are increasingly under
>attack--she was just a little ahead of her time.


we have a fellow around here, JD, who tought me a bit about Ayn
, sounded like 'compassion' was her grandest message ..

>What do you do about "evil" if your management permits or promotes it?
>The usual advice from friends: "When all else fails lower your
>standards." Seems like that's just caving in.


well, hesitating a bit, ok, i'm a bit devious, if one knows the
functionality behind the 'chain-of-command' it isn't so hard to
rattle the chain of reality. It can be rattled from both ends.
example:  (slightly off topic)
in stockholm/sweden they decided that it was time to introduce
environmental friendly vehicles, political correct color, green.
The word was passed along the chain to an investigating department.
The dep. employed a little company where i was working.
I studied, evaluated and wrote a report.
The report was *summarized* by the department and
a public 'speach' was written. Later on i attended
an 'official' introduction of electric cars, with some hotshot
politicians speaking to the public about 'their' vision
regarding vehicles and love in general.
Can you begin to imagine how it felt like, listening
to the puppet, passing on one's work&thoughts to the public
as they were his own?
Actually it didn't bother me much, i realized that i had
got the message thru, reasonable unperverted, thus
rattling the chain of reality from the 'little' end.

when i'm really annoyed, i just smile a bit more,
being the loveable chap i am.

Rattling regards
Patrik Bagge












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