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Thinking without language?

Bloxy's Bloxy's at hotmail.com
Wed Nov 24 05:26:25 EST 1999


In article <FLoq78.Mt0 at turnbull.org>, john at turnbull.org (John Turnbull) wrote:
>In article <81f0om$esa$4 at nntp.Stanford.EDU>,
>Larisa Migachyov <lvm at leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>John Turnbull wrote:
>
>>>  No, but I don't consider humming a familiar melody to be thinking.  I am
>>>  likely to think verbally of the name of the tune though.
>>
>>What about performing a musical work?  Especially when playing in an
>>ensemble without a conductor (quartet, quintet, whatever) - there is quite
>>a lot of mental activity involved.  For me at least, most of the mental
>>activity is not verbal - it is musical.

Music is a pretty direct way to represent the vibrational
aspects of the very essense of your being. It is BEYOND
thinking as such.

Yes, it does relate to structure and highly sophisticated
abstract representations, resonating within your being,
but it is not mere thinking.

>>  I am, for example, likely to
>>think about how the notes I play fit in with the notes that everyone else
>>is playing,

Yes, the synchronisity of YOUR essential vibrations
with those of others. You attune yourself with others.
And if you succeed, the orgasm follows.
Tremendous energy is produced, and that energy is of
synchronisity, just like in electrical processes.

It IS an electrical kind of process, dealing with fields.
And that is where AI falls on its face.
They simply have no concepts of this kind.

>> or about how I need to play a little louder to bring out the
>>melody, etc. - mostly, without words. 

>>And if you still say that performing a memorized work requires no thought
>>- a contention that I will violently disagree

Watch that violence within.

>> with - what about
>>improvising?

Yes, improvisation is the deepest trust to your own being,
and the most magical aspect of existance, all done in real time.
Improvisation should give you a clue of who you are.
That is UTTER and COMPETE trust to validity of your own being.

Ok, that is enough for now.

----------------------------- end of input ------------------

>>  You would have to say that improvisation involves some kind
>>of thinking.  And yet, even when I'm improvising together with some
>>people, I don't think verbally.
>
>As I mentioned in another recent post maybe I've been too restrictive in
>my thoughts on thinking, equating it too much with reasoning.  I am
>certainly not saying performing music doesn't require skill.  Not being
>a musician I can't comment on the thought processes involved.  A couple
>of questions though:
>
>        Would any kind of detailed thinking be a distraction to performing
>        well?  Are the thoughts more on a macro scale, and not on the micro
>        scale of which notes do I play, how do I play them, how would I
>        play louder?
>
>        When improvising, do you ever surprise yourself?  The closest I've
>        come recently is sparring in the martial arts.  When I spar best
>        I've tagged my partner before I realize what I'm going to do.  That
>        to me indicates activity below the level of conscious thought.
>
>John




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