Is Consciousness Discrete?

Doug Klimesh dougklim at
Wed Oct 20 20:05:20 EST 1999

Jared Blackburn wrote:
> > >Doug Klimesh wrote in message news
> > >[snip}"And that to truly understand consciousness, you must go beyond
> > >the bounds of purely objective science. Remember that quantum physics
> > >shows that objectiveness is a myth."
>         No, quantum physic IN NO WAY shows that objectivity is a myth -- it has
> nothing to do with objectity, but is mearly a set of equations that
> describe phenomina to the best ability currently possible.  There are
> numerous philosophical interpretations of the probabilistic nature of
> these equations, incuding: "reality is subjective or determined by the
> observer," "every possible out-come happens, as the 'timeline' splits
> through unprecieved dementions of time," "souls spirits influence the
> world though manipulating the probabilities," "there are hard, fast
> rules, but we don't understand them, and must use probabilistic
> descritpions," "qunatum phenomina are truly random," and many others --
> that is the philosophy of qunatum theory, though, not the science.  It
> is pushing ideas like this that lead many physicists to laugh and scoff
> and people in the behavioral sciences.

Ok, I guess I should have said something like, "more than one
philosophical interpretation of quantum physics implies that objectivity
is a myth."  My point was about consciousness and how can one know when
they have found a mechanism of consciousness, because consciousness is a
subjective phenomenon.  Perhaps I should have left quantum physics out
of it, but I stand by the preceding sentence about consciousness and

No, I think physicists scoff at the nature of behavior sciences in
general.  I am interested in neuroscience not behavioral science (at
least on this ng), although I don't know what the line separating the
two fields is.  I don't see many behavioral scientists pushing these
subjective reality ideas anyway.

> I might note, that for anything to be true, even a propostition like
> "physical reality is subjective," a there must be an objective reality
> on some level, or the proposition itself is not true (ie, is not
> valid).

If your definition of truth requires objectivity, then may be nothing is
true (valid).  Is there anything that you believe that is not objective?

>  Quantum physic is based on and in onjective reality -- it is
> only some peoples (even a few rare, but famous physicists) twisting of
> it to push mystical ideas.  This is why Schoerndinger invented his cat
> paradox, to show how rediculous the "reality is not objective" view is,
> by moving to a more macroscopic and obvious level, and why Einstein
> stated "I don't believe a mouse can alter the universe just be looking
> at it."

Quantum physics doesn't have to be twisted at all to push mystical ideas
- that's the point.  Read _The Tao of Physics_ by Fritjof Capra
( ) or
_The Dancing Wu Li Masters_ by Gary Zukav.
( )
But like reality, everybody has their interpretation.

I think Schrodinger invented his cat to move quantum ideas to a more
macroscopic and obvious level only, but I haven't read any of him except
for some interesting quotes in his  _What Is Life?_
( ).

Einstein also believed that "God doesn't play dice".

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