Robot Dreams

George Bajszar gyuri at usa.net
Thu Sep 14 05:12:34 EST 2000


In article <lupawolf-1309002116300001 at lupa-0.dsl.speakeasy.net>,
  lupawolf at deja.com (lupa) wrote:
> In article <8po9pk$ues$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, George Bajszar
<gyuri at usa.net> wrote:

> > Emotions comes down to "information". Let me explain:

> everything comes down to information, as far as the brain is
> concerned.

Agreed.

> > What are emotions: The brain receives constant information.
> > By some information we feel emotionally affected. Hearing a
> > good joke. Hearing very bad news. Our consciousness decides
> > what is important information and what is not.

> i don't necessarily agree.
> people with eidetic memories don't have to make any decision
> whatsoever. and sometimes people can feel emotionally affected
> without receiving any conscious information.

John Casey pointed out clearly to me that I was wrong in my speculation
here. I now realized that background information processes can involve
decision making as well. The subconscient decision making process has
to be there so neural networks can form on their own. What data is
linked to what other data in such a complex neural network can only be
formed subconsciously, not to mention that other animal species without
much intelligence have their neural networks form without much of their
conscious decisions playing roles.

> > When we receive important information, our brain becomes more
> > active to blend in the new information with the existing ones.

> this makes no sense to me.  please clarify.

I just know about myself that when I have a much more intense day than
usually with tons of problems that landed on me, I can feel that my
thought processing is intensified in its speed. I feel more hyper and
thoughts are rushing back and forth all day through my brain, and as a
result I feel overwhelmed and stressed.

During stressful days a lot of problems that need to be solved gather
in our memory. They are all stored in our subconscious memory. It is in
our nature to avoid stressful situations. Our nature tells us to
process all problems until solutions are found so they can be avoided
in the future. Neurons storing memory stored during stressed tensed
moments spark a lot of neural activity that creates a lot of
subconscious neural background activity. Neural networks form
constantly and their purpose is to evolve into a system that represents
stable connections of clear logic connecting information between
neurons. Neurons holding problemous information are begging to find the
proper network connections that can lead to proper handling of that
problem in future situations.

Most people who feel depressed carry background problems in their
subconcious mind that they cannot find a solution to. Most of them do
not even know why they feel depressed. That is when psychologists can
come in, explore their past and find the subconscious problem causing
their depression, and offer them a solution by helping them learn about
their problem that their subconscious mind was unable to find a
solution for.

> > If we become active about a specific thought, we think
> > extensively about it.

> not necessarily consciously, though.  there are informational
> items the brain can think about that we never have to register
> in our day to day lives.

Agreed.

> > When there is an overload of important data in our brain, we
> > feel stressed.

> stressed?  can you define stress in this context? because
> sometimes overload of data can translate as exhilaration.

I could have also said hyperactive, but to me that is usually
accomodated with stress.

> > the many recorded important events. When the consciouss
> > brain receives information that appear very important,
> > hormones (chemicals) are released that make the information
> > in the brain to be recorded as important.

> that happens in sleep and dream mode too.  so clarify, please.

I should have said that everything gets recorded by the brain, but
important events that are identified develop neural links instantly to
other related groups of neurons. Of course chemical activity is needed
for changes applying in the neural network structure. I do suspect that
the neural networks are evolving during during dreaming too, perhaps
even 24 hours a day. What specific roles do dreams play in memory, I am
still blindly speculating, I just know that the function of memory is
strongly affected if dreams don't occur.

> > We feel those chemicals as the corresponding emotions
> > playing role.

> this i disgree with for personal reasons.

Emotions (feelings) are governed by hormones and chemicals that are
controlled depending on the state of the brain. Since we have a lot of
subconscious brain activity, we often feel certain emotions and don't
know why. What we feel is what is reported by our nerves in our bodies
to our brain. Only chemical changes can affect emotions. We also can
feel any chemical changes in our brains and interpret them as emotions.

> > problem. Understanding a problem later on and knowing how it
> > can be avoided the next time, releaves stress as understanding
> > reflects a completed blend of the neural nets regaring an issue.

> i also disagree with this.
> oftentimes even understanding how to solve a problem and avoid
> it next time, especially an emotionally-charged problem, will
> not result in stress relief until the SOURCE of the original
> problem is revealed.

I was making an example when having only one problem in the
subconscious mind. I agree that if there are many problems or a problem
or broken down to subproblems, than only when the final problem is
solved only after all its subproblems are solved, will the actual
problem be solved.

> to use a mechanical analogy, you can fix
> a computer and know how to avoid the issue happening again -
> for instance, find a virus and install virus cleaning software.
> but all the good techs *i've* known won't feel good about it
> until they know how the problem got into the machine in the
> first place. even though the knowledge of how the problem acts
> and can be prevented is integrated into the neural net, many
> brains seem to constantly want to know *why.*

Agreed.

> > Returning to dreams, if people don't dream, regardless of
> > stressful or not stressful days, people will go insane.
> > Memory would be corrupted. So some sort of reorganization
> > of data must occur during dreams,

> i don't see why it's a matter of reorganization, though.  you've
> said nothing to make me accept this premise.  slow wave
> brain activity (the more prevalent activity during sleeping
> and dreaming) has not been shown to have that type of impact
> on cognitive processes.

Perhaps you have not heard yet that the lack of dreaming affects memory
function strongly. There is a rare disease, I don't recall its name,
where the patients were found not to have rapid eye movement during
their sleep. They go completely insane within a month.

> slow wave brain activity of a
> particular frequency *has* been show to correspond to worry
> and anxiety.  that is one of the wave frequencies that is
> prevalent during dream states.
> (and of course now i can't find my source on this, but i can
> tell everyone that i found this information when researching
> anomalies found in my own brain patterns while awake and
> asleep.)
>
> when i said 'processing intense emotion' in the previous post,
> i didn't mean organization.  i meant analysis.  in my opinion
> (not scientific, just personal, so everyone feel free to
> correct me) analysis is the mental equivalent of picking
> something apart and leaving the pieces all over so you can see
> how it was put together in the first place - it wouldn't be
> the brain's way of cleaning up.  so organization is somewhat
> antithetical to my idea of analysis.

An typical neuron is connected somewhere between 1000 and 10000 other
neurons. Each neuron holds a partucular data. One might hold the image
of an apple. From apple, there is a connection to other neurons where
one could represent the color green another neuron connection from
apple could connect to the general group of trees, etc. Each relevant
information is connected. Organization as I suggested refers to make
new neural connections or remove irrelevant neural connections.

> if there is any data reorganization going on in the brain, i am
> of the opinion that it's done all the time, regardless of sleep
> or dreaming - and then dreaming is a way for us to pick through
> the mental garbage pail before we discard things (jung's idea),
> or take things out that we had organized on the shelves for
> later examination.

I still stick to my opinion that dreams have a big effect on memory
functioning. I'll have to look for a reference information to my claim.

> > remember that emotions refer to data.

> as i said before, everything refers to data.  it's the
> reorganization part i'm disputing.
>
> ~risa

I wasn't specific. Emotions are feelings reported by the nervious
system of the chemical processes taking place in our body, and those
chemical processes are governed by information in the brain.

George Bajszar


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