REM Sleep And Learning
nospam at nospam.net
Mon Jun 11 12:49:04 EST 2001
In article <9g1j7f$6ft91$1 at ID-81739.news.dfncis.de>,
"maxwell" <mmmaxwell at hotmail.com> wrote:
> SA <nospam at nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:nospam-38405F.15171210062001 at lsnewsr1-27.we.mediaone.net...
> > In article <9g0b38$68o0o$1 at ID-34153.news.dfncis.de>,
> > "Karl Self" <karl.self at gmx.net> wrote:
> > > "maxwell" <mmmaxwell at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Some think that there's consolidation more of procedural/implicit in
> > > wave, but the parceling-out of memory types, procedural <|> explicit
> > > slow wave <|> REM sleep is itself likely over-simplifying.
> > >
> > > I agree with you on that one -- we have finally found some
> > > ground!
> > Who thinks there is consolidation of procedural/implicit memory in
> > wave? There is no evidence for a lengthy consolidation process in any
> > form of implicit learning (at least not yet), the evidence is that
> > memories are acquired in their respective permanent locations.
> Please state what 'respective permanent locations' you mean, and can you
> reconcile this claim with distributed parallel processing?
> Did I say "lengthy consolidation process" ?
My point is there is no evidence for a "consolidation process" (except
maybe lasting 2 h or so) in implicit memory, so why would you need sleep
to consolidate it. The theory in declarative memory is that sleep aids
in the consolidation from a hippocampus to cortical state, i.e.,
hippocampus is a fast learning, cortex is a slow learning, and the
hippocampus needs to replay it using sharp waves to get it into the
cortex... this process in rats is argued to take >30 days, and in
humans, many years. This makes sense. On the other hand, most implicit
memory is argued to stay at the site of acquisition (e.g., visual
cortex, basal ganglia, cerebellu, amygdala) and there is no evidence,
lesion or otherwise, of a lengthy (> 2 h) consolidation process like
there is with declarative memory. I mean, I think the the concept is
interesting but premature and uncessary for procedural memory. If
anything I think it weakens the case that sleep is involved in
consolidation, since for implicit memory, there is no evidence for a
> ...to get you started WRT procedural mem. in respect to SWS:
> Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience 1997 9(4):534-547
> Effects of early and late nocturnal sleep on declarative and procedural
> Plihal,-Werner; Born,-Jan
> Universitaet Bamberg, Germany; Physiologische Psychologie
> Recall of paired-associate lists (declarative memory) and mirror-tracing
> skills (procedural memory) was assessed after retention intervals
> defined over early and late nocturnal sleep. In addition, effects of
> sleep on recall were compared with those of early and late retention
> intervals filled with wakefulness. 20 healthy males (aged 21-38 yrs)
> served as Ss. Saliva cortisol concentrations were determined before and
> after the retention intervals to determine pituitary-adrenal secretory
> activity. Sleep generally enhanced recall when compared with the effects
> of corresponding retention intervals of wakefulness. The benefit from
> sleep on recall depended on the phase of sleep and on the type of
> memory: Recall of paired-associate lists improved more during early
> sleep, and recall of mirror-tracing skills improved more during late
> sleep. The effects may reflect different influences of slow wave sleep
> (SWS) and REM sleep since time in SWS was 5 times longer during the
> early than late sleep retention interval, and time in REM sleep was
> twice as long during late than early sleep. Changes in cortisol
> concentrations, which independently of sleep and wakefulness were lower
> during early retention intervals than late ones, cannot account for the
> effects of sleep on memory.
> nature neuroscience 3(12) december 2000
> Early sleep triggers memory for early visual discrimination skills
> Steffen Gais, Werner Plihal, Ullrich Wagner and Jan Born
> Clinical Neuroendocrinology, Medical University of Lübeck, Ratzeburger
> Allee 160/Hs 23a, 23538, Lübeck, Germany
> Improvement after practicing visual texture discrimination does not
> occur until several hours after
> practice has ended. We show that this improvement strongly depends on
> sleep. To specify the
> process responsible for sleep-related improvement, we compared the
> effects of 'early' and 'late'
> sleep, dominated respectively by slow-wave and rapid eye movement (REM)
> sleep. Discrimination skills significantly improved over early sleep,
> improved even more over a whole night's sleep, but did not improve after
> late sleep alone. These findings suggest that procedural memory
> formation is prompted by slow-wave sleep-related processes. Late REM
> sleep may promote memory formation at a second stage, only after periods
> of early sleep have occurred.
> and also, WRT Stickgold...
> There's also some recent stuff by Bruce McNaughton-- perhaps someone
> else has the refs.
> near at hand.
More information about the Neur-sci