brain sizes: Einstein's and women's
insomniac at winterslight.org
Tue Aug 13 23:04:58 EST 2002
And just to clarify, the complete, unadulterated text, in Jefferson's own
writing, can be viewed, here:
A digital copy can be viewed, here:
And I quote directly from this page:
"I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr.
Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as
soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this
copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the
stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful
to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the
fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same
materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his
doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on
the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject."
He cut texts out of the book. He did not reference the Bible at all.
Now, one final reference, and then, if you continue to babble your heretical
nonsense, I will heretofore ignore you.
Taken from: http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html:
"No one disputes the faith of our Founding Fathers. To speak of unalienable
Rights being endowed by a Creator certainly shows a sensitivity to our
spiritual selves. What is surprising is when fundamentalist Christians think
the Founding Fathers' faith had anything to do with the Bible. Without
exception, the faith of our Founding Fathers was deist, not theist. It was
best expressed earlier in the Declaration of Independence, when they spoke
of "the Laws of Nature" and of "Nature's God."
In a sermon of October 1831, Episcopalian minister Bird Wilson said,
"Among all of our Presidents, from Washington downward, not one was a
professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion?
To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support
roguery and error all over the earth."
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the
first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines
and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion
encumbered with in these days?"
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Here's Thomas Paine:
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare
so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the
"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."
"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."
And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in
pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."
Finally let's hear from James Madison:
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the
exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they
are mixed together."
These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having
escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the
people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of
Independence was signed.
Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise
of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The
Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood,
and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they - the Baptists -
who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They
knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government
but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling
political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it
was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state:
"Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the
In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist
faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual
must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These
usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the
affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should
meddle in the beliefs of individuals.
The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and
zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest
Editor's Note: We have received several requests asking for references to
the quotes in this article. We are now able to include some of the
references and links to other sites that relate to the beliefs of the
founding fathers. While most of these politicians were diplomatic in their
public expressions concerning religion, in their private conversations,
voluminous writings and correspondences they expressed contrary beliefs.
Which beliefs are true? If a politician appears one way in public and
another in private, which do you think better represents their true beliefs?
How do you reconcile the inflamatory writings above with various
pro-Christian statements that the same men made in the course of their
careers? Could it be called politics, an attempt to appease Christians while
ensuring a more rational government based on the separation of church and
state? We can't be sure but it looks that way.
In addition, the Editor does not recognize the religious intentions of the
so-called 'Founding Fathers' as relevant to discussions of political process
today. As a descendent of Native Americans the editor feels there are a few
things that these alien visitors must answer for before the imposition of
their viral religion is discussed.
Photo credit: Sheila Sharkey. 25th anniversary of the Gay Freedom Day Parade
in Washington, D.C., Spring, 1994.
References: The writings of Thomas Jefferson exist in 25 volumes. The
references for this article were found in the book, SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg (who interviewed many of Lincoln's associates). Much of
his work on Jefferson came from THE MEMOIRS, CORRESPONDENCE AND MISCELLANIES
FROM THE PAPERS OF THOMAS JEFFERSON, 4 volumes ed. by Thomas Jefferson
Randolph (the grandson of Thomas Jefferson)."
"Shadow Dancer" <insomniac at winterslight.org> wrote in message
news:ajcjv3$1a4gcc$1 at ID-150265.news.dfncis.de...
> "John Knight" <johnknight at usa.com> wrote in message
> news:AUj69.29017$eb.2160589 at news2.west.cox.net...
> > "Shadow Dancer" <insomniac at winterslight.org> wrote in message
> > > Again, Jefferson was a deist - and just for you, here is the
> > > http://www.merriam-webster.com definition of deist:
> > >
> > > Main Entry: de·ism
> > > Pronunciation: 'dE-"i-z&m, 'dA-
> > > Function: noun
> > > Usage: often capitalized
> > > Date: 1682
> > > : a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion,
> > > morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the
> > > with the laws of the universe
> > > - de·ist /'dE-ist, 'dA-/ noun, often capitalized
> > > - de·is·tic /dE-'is-tik, dA-/ adjective
> > > - de·is·ti·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective
> > > - de·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
> > >
> > > Jefferson was not a Christian.
> > Gosh, it's such a tough choice. Do I believe an infinitely STUPID
> > with 3 1/2 billion missing brain cells, or Mr. Thomas Jefferson, our
> > CHRISTIAN Founding Forefather, who created a CHRISTIAN nation from
> > http://christianparty.net/tjthomson.htm
> > The Works of Thomas Jefferson in Twelve Volumes. Federal Edition.
> > and Edited by Paul Leicester Ford.
> > Monticello, January 9, 1816.
> > My Dear and Ancient Friend,--An acquaintance of fifty-two years, for I
> > ours dates from 1764, calls for an interchange of notice now and then,
<the rest, cut for brevity>
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